What are your thoughts on Medical Device Reps wasting your time?

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

Hey guys
Im actually studying / applying to become a device rep. Ideally for intuitive surgical but I have to start in orthopedics since they are the ones offering entery

What ive learned is reps really want
1) To make the sale regardless of the quality of their product
2) Will try their best to keep you on their side, even after you switch to a competitor product they will try to arrange more meetings to win you back
3) The device rep (a good one)'s sales pitch is to actually ask questions instead of busting out an OXI CLEAN style sales pitch and make you feel uncomfortable with the way your practice is currently going - to inspire change- to catch up to competition etc

Im just curious what are your thoughts on meeting with these guys?
What convinces you to buy a product ?
How do you usually handle device reps who are trying to win you over?

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[vhawk]

Hilarious

 

[TypeADissection]

Bring me Chick-Fil-A and I'll write Eliquis for old ladies on ice skates

 

[Gurby]

Corollary to the OP:

As a medical student, I have had device reps get chummy with me and nonchalantly dig for information about people or cases. I play the dumb medical student card and don't give them an inch. Are they wolves in sheep's clothing or am I over-analyzing this dynamic?

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

Corollary to the OP:

As a medical student, I have had device reps get chummy with me and nonchalantly dig for information about people or cases. I play the dumb medical student card and don't give them an inch. Are they wolves in sheep's clothing or am I over-analyzing this dynamic?

That is the feeling Im getting from the training videos and lectures.
I feel its a very fox -style way of selling things.
To be quite honest I just wanted a medium between being a doctor and an engineer and this seemed to be it, the devices I saw were helping cards etc with the pacemaker implantation by adjusting certain stats, and such.

However I also see their selling aspect now and its a piss contest between one and the other

 

[kitsunepixie]

Don't "waste my time." I like when we have reps available for trouble shooting, but don't like to make small talk with them unless I've known them for a long time. If I'm going to put tiny screws into a toddler's C1-C2, I'm going to use a company whose products and reps I like and trust...

 

[siliso]

If you’re not comfortable with sales (which is yes manipulative and financial goal driven) it’s not going to be a great fit of a career. Unless you can really buy and believe that your company actually has the best solutions for every problem. Perhaps working on designing and testing devices would be more up your alley than selling them?

 

[Jolie South]

Bring me Chick-Fil-A and I'll write Eliquis for old ladies on ice skates

Imma at least need a couple glasses of wine and a steak for that.

 

[TypeADissection]

Imma at least need a couple glasses of wine and a steak for that.

Ooh. You've done this before. Well played. "Waiter! I'll have what Jolie South is having. Medium rare and bring me a goblet of something cool and refreshing."

 

[nlax30]

That is the feeling Im getting from the training videos and lectures.
I feel its a very fox -style way of selling things.
To be quite honest I just wanted a medium between being a doctor and an engineer and this seemed to be it, the devices I saw were helping cards etc with the pacemaker implantation by adjusting certain stats, and such.

However I also see their selling aspect now and its a piss contest between one and the other

To me there's a difference between someone like a device rep that actually has duties/responsibilities during and after the case as opposed to a typical pharm rep or rep for an "ortho screw" (I don't know, not my field) who doesn't really need to be involved in the case besides just coming by to get you to use their company.

I have a pretty good relationship (and are friends with) many but not all of the reps we use, though I'm in a field where they are very useful and actually involved in case and the care of the patient so I think that's a slightly different scenario then a typical hardware sales rep.

I agree though that in general you need to be comfortable with the "salesmanship" part of the job or else I would think it'd be a miserable job. We quickly realize who is just trying to meet their numbers and will say anything to us vs those that are actually cool people that just happen to have a sales oriented job and realize that.

 

[Wordead]

Agreed that the single item reps are pretty useless. Some of the full hardware set reps (Stryker comes to mind for facial fracture tools) are pretty damn good though. When I was a PGY2 one of them talked me through a reasonably difficult mandible repair.

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

If you’re not comfortable with sales (which is yes manipulative and financial goal driven) it’s not going to be a great fit of a career. Unless you can really buy and believe that your company actually has the best solutions for every problem. Perhaps working on designing and testing devices would be more up your alley than selling them?

Im going to probably go for intuitive surgical. Currently its product is unparalleled in the market and future prospects for competitors seem pretty terrible. In the past I was a bioengineer, the pay is really really bad for the work you put into it. I dont mind sales but I still need to understand the physician perspective on sales reps which you guys have been great on explaining.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

Pro Tip:
If you are bringing lunch to a new office with only three doctors, make sure you know roughly what they look like and maybe even their names. Had a rep come in this week and I introduced myself by first name, last name so as to keep things light. Sat through her talk and ask a few questions. Then I thanked her and left. She says "now what is your role here?" Uh, I'm one of the three physicians you dolt. Just look at our website before you come in. That's pretty basic prep work. If you know where I went to med school or residency then I'll be even more impressed. But geez

 

[kitsunepixie]

To me there's a difference between someone like a device rep that actually has duties/responsibilities during and after the case as opposed to a typical pharm rep or rep for an "ortho screw" (I don't know, not my field) who doesn't really need to be involved in the case besides just coming by to get you to use their company.

Word. There was a Vimpat rep who came off as a stalker when I was a resident and I had no idea who he was...until my cochief was like, "That guy is the Vimpat rep! Isn't he creepy AF?" I felt vindicated.

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

Pro Tip:
If you are bringing lunch to a new office with only three doctors, make sure you know roughly what they look like and maybe even their names. Had a rep come in this week and I introduced myself by first name, last name so as to keep things light. Sat through her talk and ask a few questions. Then I thanked her and left. She says "now what is your role here?" Uh, I'm one of the three physicians you dolt. Just look at our website before you come in. That's pretty basic prep work. If you know where I went to med school or residency then I'll be even more impressed. But geez

Thank you for the tip. This is a tactic I have employed since high school. When ever I am interviewing someone I give a quick linkedin etc stalk. What may sound creepy is actually what lands me the job or position because I am able to bring up relatable topics (football, golf, food, what ever) . I will certainly hold this tip to heart.

 

[mimelim]

Hey guys
Im actually studying / applying to become a device rep. Ideally for intuitive surgical but I have to start in orthopedics since they are the ones offering entery

What ive learned is reps really want
1) To make the sale regardless of the quality of their product
2) Will try their best to keep you on their side, even after you switch to a competitor product they will try to arrange more meetings to win you back
3) The device rep (a good one)'s sales pitch is to actually ask questions instead of busting out an OXI CLEAN style sales pitch and make you feel uncomfortable with the way your practice is currently going - to inspire change- to catch up to competition etc

Im just curious what are your thoughts on meeting with these guys?
What convinces you to buy a product ?
How do you usually handle device reps who are trying to win you over?

Obviously just my personal opinion and maybe it goes against sales 101, but... The best reps...

1) Are comfortable with their product. Not what the company says, not what the flier says, but actually knows their product inside out and backwards. That means LISTENING to physicians, especially when your product isn't perfect. Which btw is EVERY product because not every product is perfect.
2) Is honest. I have a huge amount of respect for many of our reps because they will tell me not to use their products sometimes. We do all sorts of off label, sometimes truly crazy things with our devices. Usually because no device fits what our patients need. But, when the Gore rep says, you could do this case with our device the crazy way you are proposing, or you could use the Cook graft instead because of XYZ, you can't help but be impressed. They aren't just pushing a product. They are pushing a service, which I value a hell of a lot more than a single product line.
3) Be available. There is nothing worse than needing a product or help and not having it available. I recently had a very complicated aortic case on a Saturday night. I remembered from a conference someone back table modifying a particular graft to fit a particular need. I was able get on Facetime the rep that had helped the other physician within 5 minutes and talk through exactly what we needed to do. We operate/function at weird hours sometimes, you can't just support 9-5. I'm not saying that you should work our hours. But, you want loyal customers? Sometimes it means answering the phone or helping out, even when you don't have to.

 

[filter07]

But, when the Gore rep says, you could do this case with our device the crazy way you are proposing, or you could use the Cook graft instead because of XYZ, you can't help but be impressed. They aren't just pushing a product. They are pushing a service, which I value a hell of a lot more than a single product line.

Gore reps have a salary and don't get commission. Does it make a difference? I don't know.

 

[DoctwoB]

Gore reps have a salary and don't get commission. Does it make a difference? I don't know.

Maybe, but a smart rep, even one based on commission should know that as stated, being honest, knowledgeable, available, and useful is likely a much better long term strategy then just being a shill for a product

 

[coldleg]

1. Don't be a dick to residents/fellows. They grow up to be the same attendings who you will be trying to get a hold of later. Case in point, the peripheral rep who was a total dick when I was a trainee, now several years later joined a competitor that happens to be in my territory. That person will not be covering my groups cases. The trust is gone.

2. Don't come into a case you were not invited to. I threw a closure device rep out of my suite for showing up at the end of one of may cases that she was not asked to support, then handed her device to the nurse to open on the table. For the record, I have never used the device before and she thought she'd "walk me through it" for the first time during a case with a conscious patient.

3. If we sit down for a few minutes to discuss/demo your product, a follow up is nice. A hand written thank you card once a week for six weeks is god damn creepy.

4. As mentioned above, a really good rep knows the limits of his or her products. I can respect when the Gore rep thinks I'm pushing the IFU and the case would be best served with a fenestrated graft. They don't want to see their device fail. Convince me you that you just want a good outcome. No one wants to feel like they're being sold something.