What are your various FI numbers?

[ERDude]

For example her are mine:
Fat FI: 10m
Coast vs maybe retire early FI: 5m
Refuse to work an awful or underpaid job FI: 2m

I'm just about 10 years out of residency and will recert next year and even though I often like this job and work in a solid SDG I can't really see myself going beyond 20 years.

I'm just curious what others FI numbers look like.

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[Porfirio]

10 mil or bust baby.

 

[Frazier]

No plans to RE in my subspecialty. If anything prob retire in 70's.

FI would be around 3.8

 

[WilcoWorld]

No plans to RE in my subspecialty. If anything prob retire in 70's.

FI would be around 3.8

I'm with Frazier. I don't want to retire early. Having a lot of cash and no responsibilities sounds like a boring path to alcoholism. I'd rather find something fulfilling that I like doing and keep it up into my 60's or 70's.

toeachizown

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

I'm with Frazier. I don't want to retire early. Having a lot of cash and no responsibilities sounds like a boring path to alcoholism. I'd rather find something fulfilling that I like doing and keep it up into my 60's or 70's.

toeachizown

Well it’s not like you have to do nothing with the money.

Mine is 10 million I would work par time then start a philotropy organization as well as invest in companies and work with various non profits so I can do on the ground work.

 

[ERDude]

I'm with Frazier. I don't want to retire early. Having a lot of cash and no responsibilities sounds like a boring path to alcoholism. I'd rather find something fulfilling that I like doing and keep it up into my 60's or 70's.

toeachizown

If I recall Frazier is palliative.

I don’t want to sit on my a&$ all day, but it’s going to be pretty hard to justify the stress of this job even once I’ve got 3+m. That said I have partners who are 30 years in and going strong. The variation in spending amongst partners in my group is staggering though.

 

[BoardingDoc]

$7.5M
More is better. 6.25 would be lean.
Am on track to hit 7.5 with a conservative estimated ROI by 55 yrs old. Likely sooner as that number doesn't factor in SS benefits.

 

[bravotwozero]

I'd be just fine with $2.5 mil with a paid off house. I'm sorry, but some of the numbers being thrown out there are not doable on a EP's pay...

 

[DeadCactus]

I'd be just fine with $2.5 mil with a paid off house. I'm sorry, but some of the numbers being thrown out there are not doable on a EP's pay...

A total of $10 million is $300k a year for 20 years at 4% or little over $200k at 8% not accounting for tax strategies that decrease the actual hit on take home income. Probably doable for many in EM but less likely to be doable in the future.

Doesn’t match my life goals, I’m more in your camp.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

A total of $10 million is $300k a year for 20 years at 4% or little over $200k at 8% not accounting for tax strategies that decrease the actual hit on take home income. Probably doable for many in EM but less likely to be doable in the future.

Doesn’t match my life goals, I’m more in your camp.

wouldn’t 10 mill at 4% spin off 400k in interest per year? my goal is 5, but my wife also works etc

 

[EctopicFetus]

$5 with a paid off house is my number. $10M in EM.. damn.. is all i can say. I must be doing something wrong. No plan to RE. Need a goal and something to keep me working/busy.

 

[Angry Birds]

The fact I don't know what FI stands for is an indication of how poorly I have been planning for my future.

 

[BoardingDoc]

The fact I don't know what FI stands for is an indication of how poorly I have been planning for my future.

Financial Independence. It's frequently lumped in with Retire Early to give the acronym FIRE.

 

[Apollyon]

Financial Independence. It's frequently lumped in with Retire Early to give the acronym FIRE.

Then add in "I'm looking at fatFIRE for $12.5" and the like. Surely, it can get confusing!

 

[GeneralVeers]

I thought it was **** It!

 

[BAM!]

Seriously, what is the $10M for? how are you going to spend all that money? Permanent vacation? Or legacy and inheritance for your kids?

With 10M, let's say you spend 200k each year, that will last you 50 years without any interest on your initial 10M.

Overkill. Retire earlier.

 

[RuralEDDoc]

The people shooting for $10M in this field must be in the live-like-a-resident, work-like-a-resident camp, for the next 25 years. Then you might hit that. Frankly it sounds asinine and misleading to those of us in the real world.

 

[Angry Birds]

The people shooting for $10M in this field must be in the live-like-a-resident, work-like-a-resident camp, for the next 25 years. Then you might hit that. Frankly it sounds asinine and misleading to those of us in the real world.

Which also begs the question as to why they would need that much money for retirement. Why not just keep living like a resident forever then? You've already squandered the prime years of your life.

 

[cyanide12345678]

1M for ability to walk away any day and live a luxury life in Pakistan. Probably will reach this in another 2.5 years at age 34.

4M for retirement in the US.

Ultimate goal in life: 50M+ and being out of medicine completely and operating a business/real estate empire that outlives me.

 

[DeadCactus]

I would assume people aiming for $10 million have aspirations of leaving behind inheritances for their family. I also assume they are in more profitable jobs than a CMG in a major city and have diversified income streams.

 

[DeadCactus]

wouldn’t 10 mill at 4% spin off 400k in interest per year? my goal is 5, but my wife also works etc

To clarify, the values I gave were rough calculations of how much you would have to put away per year to save $10 million over 20 years.

 

[dchristismi]

I "retired" from EM a year ago with roughly 2M with all loans and mortgages paid off. Psychologically, I would do this for free. Mindset is huge.

The thing is, I think I could do my subspecialty for many decades. Even though I'm not making EM money, it's still pretty good.
I am over halfway to endowing a scholarship at my alma mater and what I do now is meaningful. I also don't sit around very well, which was kind of a hard realization, but probably better to accept early.

 

[Porfirio]

The people shooting for $10M in this field must be in the live-like-a-resident, work-like-a-resident camp, for the next 25 years. Then you might hit that. Frankly it sounds asinine and misleading to those of us in the real world.

Compound Interest Calculator | Investor.gov

Determine how much your money can grow using the power of compound interest.

www.investor.gov

Save $11,000 a month for 25 years at 7-10% interest a year.

Or start a side business

Or spouse inherited money

Or who cares? Do it as long as you can then stop if you land between 5-10 million.

Make it while you can because this profession is only going down for pay.

 

[Kuratz]

If one made the equivalent of $4-500k for 30 years they could sock away $10k per month and still live well. Then you would need to outpace inflation by 6% every year to get $10M in 2020 dollars.

I think that’s probably doable but it would take salaries keeping pace with inflation, strong willpower to save that much money every month for decades, not getting burned out and not succumbing to earlier retirement or part time when you already have a sizable net worth, and some fortune in the stock market.

Big money is not in medicine and I would think a better approach would be to become FI and then use that income to build a business. Moderately successful businesses can sell for 7 figures

 

[doctalaughs]

Depends on if you count houses in your net worth (plus savings that will likely be used on helping your kids, which I assume doesn’t count).

Aiming for 10m liquid assets. If you count real estate that’s super doable. If not - slightly harder. If you count education and kids investments that will be passed on that could easily swing total upwards several million well past 10m.

 

[ERDude]

My thought is if my wife and I can get to 5m invested (retirement + after tax) that we can let sit for 10 years it should hopefully nearly double to 10m in that time. I agree it would be tough on an EP salary alone but if dual income, not in a VHCOL area and make reasonable spending choices it's doable while still living well.

 

[betamale]

Goal is 2 million. I'm single, early 30s, live inexpensively but my tax rate is 37%. I make 650k/yr but harder to sustain due to decreasing number of shifts available. I only have 500k saved. Hope to save at least 1 million before job market dries up completely. Plan to going part-time in 3-4 years.

 

[sloh]

Goal is 2 million. I'm single, early 30s, live inexpensively but my tax rate is 37%. I make 650k/yr but harder to sustain due to decreasing number of shifts available. I only have 500k saved. Hope to save at least 1 million before job market dries up completely. Plan to going part-time in 3-4 years.

What is your specialty? Private practice, employed? Thanks!

 

[doctalaughs]

Goal is 2 million. I'm single, early 30s, live inexpensively but my tax rate is 37%. I make 650k/yr but harder to sustain due to decreasing number of shifts available. I only have 500k saved. Hope to save at least 1 million before job market dries up completely. Plan to going part-time in 3-4 years.

The first 1-2 million is the hardest to make. That’s been my income too, on average the last 10-12 yrs (I’m 15 yrs out didn’t make nearly that much first few years). if you are single hitting 1 M shouldn’t be that hard in 3 yrs, 2 M after 5 yrs, 5 M after 10. Your high tax rate definitely puts some drag on it though- make sure to get a good accountant and use every legal loophole you can find. 37% is super high (except maybe CA/NY)- mine ended up 25% last year, I believe after all the tax shelters (total, not marginal obviously).


Even more, Kids (if you don’t have a high earning spouse) can put a big drag on this though.

 

[alpinism]

You can't even buy a nice private jet for 10 million dollars.

Hope you enjoy flying Spirit Airlines to Las Vegas for the weekend.

 

[EctopicFetus]

From looking at FB groups one major factor that those with fairly incredible net worths have is usually 1 of 2 things. 1) they inherited it or they have a spouse who also makes a lot of money. That might be in medicine, law, tech or business. It is hard on an EP salary to get to $10m. I believe it is doable. Lots of factors like spending habits, income from job etc.

That being said some EPs can earn 500k. its not totally crazy to save 250k/yr on that salary. I assume an 8% return. Remember the SP has outperformed this historically. in 5 years you have $1.5m with no growth. in 10 years you have 3.8. If you do this right out of residency at 10 years out you are in your early 40s. If you didn't save another penny and didn't touch that money you would have 8.4M in your early 50s (20 years out). If you kept that pace of savings you would be at 12M. As people alluded to on here you can really make your money work in real estate. It is not a panacea and not for everyone but there is plenty of money to be made there.

I know of an EP who saved over 400k a year. I also know some folks at good SDGs who save well in excess of 200k a year every year.

Reality is 10M is a ton of money. If you make enough you can save 250k a year and live well. If you make 500k you can save 250k pretax (or close depending on age/spouse etc). and live on 250k. You arent gonna be living the full baller life on 250k but you can take nice trips, eat out and live a pretty great life on 250k.

Personally I so despise paying taxes I fill every single pre tax / tax advantaged nook and cranny I can find. Most EPs should do the same. DB / cash balance plan, backdoor IRA, HSAand the usual stuff too.

 

[Tenk]

I thought it was **** It!

Same thing.

 

[emergentmd]

My FI number is to match my current spending without touching retirement. Who cares what the actual number is if I never need to touch it.

Once all of my properties are paid for, I would guess my living expenses would be about 200K. So all I need to do it generate 200K in passive income.

My current passive income sits right at 200K currently. but alot of that goes to paying down my property debt. I have about 1M left to pay on all my properties so hopefully I will get there in 2 years.

Pay off my house and I would drive that 200K down to 160K. Kids not going to private school/college and that number probably goes down to 120K/yr to live my current lifestyle.

 

[betamale]

My FI number is to match my current spending without touching retirement. Who cares what the actual number is if I never need to touch it.

Once all of my properties are paid for, I would guess my living expenses would be about 200K. So all I need to do it generate 200K in passive income.

My current passive income sits right at 200K currently. but alot of that goes to paying down my property debt. I have about 1M left to pay on all my properties so hopefully I will get there in 2 years.

Pay off my house and I would drive that 200K down to 160K. Kids not going to private school/college and that number probably goes down to 120K/yr to live my current lifestyle.

Man that's awesome. Jealous. A classmate of mine in med school started a real estate investment company for docs. I've been thinking about joining but I just don't feel I have enough cash in case something catastrophic happens. Managng properties on my own seems like too much liability although my sister rents her house through a company who offers a full package service (tenant background check, collections, marketing...). I'd love to own property but stock market is just too alluring atm

 

[turkeyjerky]

Man, some high numbers in this thread. Keeping in mind that I won't need to save any longer and that my tax burden should be substantially lower (although this is obviously subject to change), I've kept $4M (plus primary residence) as my number. This'll give 100k a year with a 2.5% withdrawal rate.

 

[Buckeye1992]

My FI number is to match my current spending without touching retirement. Who cares what the actual number is if I never need to touch it.

Once all of my properties are paid for, I would guess my living expenses would be about 200K. So all I need to do it generate 200K in passive income.

My current passive income sits right at 200K currently. but alot of that goes to paying down my property debt. I have about 1M left to pay on all my properties so hopefully I will get there in 2 years.

Pay off my house and I would drive that 200K down to 160K. Kids not going to private school/college and that number probably goes down to 120K/yr to live my current lifestyle.

Do you actively manage these?

 

[emergentmd]

Man that's awesome. Jealous. A classmate of mine in med school started a real estate investment company for docs. I've been thinking about joining but I just don't feel I have enough cash in case something catastrophic happens. Managng properties on my own seems like too much liability although my sister rents her house through a company who offers a full package service (tenant background check, collections, marketing...). I'd love to own property but stock market is just too alluring atm

Diversify. I have a good chunk in the market too but a big downturn can kill someone's retirement just like in 2000 and 2008.

 

[emergentmd]

Do you actively manage these?

I have a property manager for all my properties. I don't have time and hate dealing with people renting from me.

 

[emergentmd]

Before kids, I had the same idea including not even paying for their college education. Fast forward 12 yrs filled with memories, love, and maturity, I am able/will give them the life that 99% of their generation will never have. I still love EM medicine, still look forward to my job, and make more money than I could imagine (Just bought wife a 50K rolex and didn't blink an eye). I see myself working part time for another 20 years if physically able.

What else am I going to do with my $$$ when I die? Yes some to Charity, but I will pass on this legacy to my kids. Hopefully all of them will keep the legacy and pass it down to their kids.

And I do not expect them to be doctors or go into high paying fields, just want them to be productive loving adults. Very un-Asian, but I am not sure I would want them to suffer in their 20's unless they really like medicine.