What business-related concepts do you wish schools did a better job of exposing to medical students?

[DocConk]

My school has a Healthcare Management and Business Principles interest group that I help to lead, and I'm trying to find future topics for our lectures and group sessions.

MY QUESTION:
What business-related topics do you think physicians ought to know about, if they ever want to get involved with the administrative/business aspects of health care delivery?

We have had seminars in the past that covered the following topics:
Marketing and Medicine
E-health opportunities
Managerial accounting
Strategic talent management
Costing systems
Modern healthcare structure and pricing
Teamwork in the Pediatric ICU
Entrepreneurship and Innovation
Challenges of running an academic health center
Contract negotiations
Personal Finance (a topic somewhat different from the rest, but of obvious value to all medical students and residents-- and heck, even some attendings)

We've accrued enough funding to have guest lecturers from our business and public health schools give these talks, so please be as wide-ranging and content-specific as you'd like to be with your responses!

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[Goro]

This is a great question! Looking forward to seeing what our wise residents and attendings have to say.

 

[operaman]

Excellent question!

My residency program has a strong focus on this kind of thing and has made an effort to give us some additional didactic time devoted to these topics. Obviously you can’t do an MBA in a few sessions, but I believe there is enormous value in at least being exposed to what you don’t know.

Sessions I thought were helpful:

Problem solving - brought in a McKinsey person to go through their process. Extremely helpful.

PowerPoint design and public speaking- we all give a ton of talks and most people are pretty bad at this or at best mediocre. Some guidance on making truly impactful slides and talks can be extremely helpful.

Conflict resolution - brought in another consultant for this. Highly valuable and something many docs struggle with.

Cost analysis - can’t get enough of this. If you want anything done in Medicine you have to be able to show how you plan to pay for it. Obviously this is a vast topic, but a couple lectures to expose people to just how deep the rabbit hole goes might be worthwhile.

Market analysis- we had a couple big CEOs come in for these. Biggest takeaway for me was learning how to think about a given hospital or practice and analyze their market and how well they are doing. I had never thought to consider the long term fiscal health of my potential employers in this way but this has made me think differently and may impact where I ultimately land.

There have been many others too but these sprang to mind first!

 

[Lawpy]

Good thread

 

[themoonman2]

This is a great topic and I'm sad that more people are responding.

Personally, I'd love to know more about leadership qualities and what it takes to manage teams. We end up being expected to be leaders without any formal training and I think we could all be more effective if guidance was offered to us as we progress throughout our training.

 

[kb1900]

This is a great topic and I'm sad that more people are responding.

Personally, I'd love to know more about leadership qualities and what it takes to manage teams. We end up being expected to be leaders without any formal training and I think we could all be more effective if guidance was offered to us as we progress throughout our training.

Unfortunately I think this topic is so woefully forgotten about in the context of medical school that most students don’t know what they don’t know about


If I’m being honest, I don’t really understand the nuances or even basics of RVUs, why docs spend so much time with prior auths, strategies for being an efficient physician as a resident or attending, how practices attempt to clear over head costs...


basically a mish mosh of random things that seem super fundamental to being successful in practice. I hardly even have the language to describe what I don’t know.

 

[Bacchus]

First and foremost, billing. Gotta keep the coffers full.

 

[jdh71]

I think some basic discussions on how money flows through the healthcare system. How docs get paid. How clinics get paid. How ambulatory surgery centers get paid. How hospitals get paid.

Also how it is determined how much work a physician does. Who decides this. How it's used especially in regards to physician compensation.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

PowerPoint design and public speaking- we all give a ton of talks and most people are pretty bad at this or at best mediocre. Some guidance on making truly impactful slides and talks can be extremely helpful.

OMG this. Very people know how to do this well, and these people become attendings, and then they perpetuate mediocrity.

 

[TheIllusionist]

lol we select for and reward memorization conformist ass kissing robots and wonder why we do not have people with more well rounded skill set

 

[deleted645092]

How reimbursement changes depending on payer type; Medicaide, Medicare, self-pay, insurance, etc, and what the demographics are for eligibility in Medicare vs. Medicaid.

The business of health insurance as it pertains to the general population, especially in terms of how things used to be vs. how things have changed under the Affordable Care Act, and how they might look in the future.

I realized yesterday while talking with one of the medical assistants that all I know about the ACA is that I was able to stay on my mom's insurance an extra 2 years and that im now eligible for Medicaid as a medical student.

 

[libertyyne]

How to analyze investment opportunities. It seems like doctors tend to make some bad choices in regards to this. Npv, irr, payback period.

 

[afib123]

How to maximize earning potential for those interested in private practice.

 

[deleted851433]

I don't know if this fits into the topic well but teaching students how to effectively treat low-income patients, run non-profit clinics, fundraising, organizing missions etc. I'm sure the resources vary among different areas of the country but I work in a low-income clinic and some volunteer physicians come in with the best of intentions, but unrealistic expectations of what they can do to treat a patient of little means. I think some students would be more comfortable working with underserved populations in the future if they had a better idea about how to solicit grants, drug samples, and other such things.

 

[themoonman2]

I don't know if this fits into the topic well but teaching students how to effectively treat low-income patients, run non-profit clinics, fundraising, organizing missions etc. I'm sure the resources vary among different areas of the country but I work in a low-income clinic and some volunteer physicians come in with the best of intentions, but unrealistic expectations of what they can do to treat a patient of little means. I think some students would be more comfortable working with underserved populations in the future if they had a better idea about how to solicit grants, drug samples, and other such things.

I managed the financials of my school's non-profit clinic and it was a mess. Physicians prescribing the newest, fancy combination oral diabetes meds, expensive other meds, etc. Everyone wants the patients to get the best care possible, but it would be much easier if people knew how to work within the framework of limited resources because we simply could not afford to give the patients everything. Having more training in this would have been a great boon for the clinic.

 

[TheIllusionist]

I don't know if this fits into the topic well but teaching students how to effectively treat low-income patients, run non-profit clinics, fundraising, organizing missions etc. I'm sure the resources vary among different areas of the country but I work in a low-income clinic and some volunteer physicians come in with the best of intentions, but unrealistic expectations of what they can do to treat a patient of little means. I think some students would be more comfortable working with underserved populations in the future if they had a better idea about how to solicit grants, drug samples, and other such things.

You just had to turn this into something well intentioned. Shame.

 

[CAFFEINE!]

How to properly negotiate an employment contract.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I wish there better classes in undergrad that taught how financially stupid it is to go to med school

 

[RNthenDoc]

I wish there better classes in undergrad that taught how financially stupid it is to go to med school

The irony is that undergrad by and large is a MUCH worse decision.

 

[nimbus]

How to properly negotiate an employment contract.

This has come up in the anesthesia forum. My experience and those of many others is that there is no negotiation.

 

[anbuitachi]

I wish high school or college taught BASIC personal finance, like the power of compounding. then we'd realize how much money we'd lose by going to med school thru lost wages and loans. its far higher than 100% of the med students think

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

I wish high school or college taught BASIC personal finance, like the power of compounding. then we'd realize how much money we'd lose by going to med school thru lost wages and loans. its far higher than 100% of the med students think

High schools do teach personal finance now, as a graduation requirement.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

Hey, didn't think of it when I first commented but if anyone is genuinely interested in learning more about practical business concepts:

Coursera

They have A LOT but of my interest:

• Entrepreneurship from UPenn Wharton (Started this one but got busy )
• Business Stretegy from UVA-Darden (I took the first two courses but got busy - highly recommend!)
• Healthcare Marketplace (I forgot who offers this one and I never started it but want to if I have time!)

These are "Specializations" which are a collection of about 4 or 5 month-long courses/modules. They are not too demanding. You can pay about 50 bucks a course to have a verified certificate if you see any value in it, but if not you can audit most courses for free (atleast about a year ago when I was really into coursera.)

If you dont want to take the whole collection to complete the specialization you can just take individual courses.

For example Business Strategy goes something like
1. Principles of Business Strategy
2. Advanced Business Strategy
3. Execution or something like that
4. Something Else/Capstone

 

[Raney Schauer]

Much better thread than that "med students should learn to code" thread....

 

[anbuitachi]

Much better thread than that "med students should learn to code" thread....

i didn't see that thread but i must say, doctors who know how to code are HIGHLY valued and respected. ive seen multiple instances of this first hand. they are rare too since usually people drop out of medicine to go to coding, not the other way around. and its difficult to learn to code when busy in med school, thus best learned before med school.

 

[Stagg737]

This has come up in the anesthesia forum. My experience and those of many others is that there is no negotiation.

I guess it depends on the field. I know plenty of people in my field who negotiated better contracts, a few who negotiated to a 30-40% higher salary than what they were offered.

 

[nimbus]

I guess it depends on the field. I know plenty of people in my field who negotiated better contracts, a few who negotiated to a 30-40% higher salary than what they were offered.

Which specialty are you? Just curious.

 

[Stagg737]

Which specialty are you? Just curious.

Psychiatry, so a field with true shortage where docs can still set their own rules in many instances. Part of why I chose the field (though certainly not a primary reason).

 

[Premed2295]

Dealing with medical insurance companies...

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

all of em

 

[aldol16]

I think a seminar on insurance coding and how it works could be useful. Both from the perspective of how coding and reimbursements work when you're the one billing as well as for doing research on administrative databases (that seems to be where health services research is moving towards).

 

[Premed2295]

I think a seminar on insurance coding and how it works could be useful. Both from the perspective of how coding and reimbursements work when you're the one billing as well as for doing research on administrative databases (that seems to be where health services research is moving towards).

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[alprazoslam]

I think a seminar on insurance coding and how it works could be useful. Both from the perspective of how coding and reimbursements work when you're the one billing as well as for doing research on administrative databases (that seems to be where health services research is moving towards).

Yeah In fourth year after we match we should have a mandantory course on this.
Pending that it is a good course not a waste of tjme