What changes would you make to the admissions process?

[AZFutureDoc]

In New Zealand, they just open the doors and you can start whenever you want! If you can't do it, they give you the boot. That's really the way it should be done. We just need more seats and med schools.

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[mterp45]

1) I would get rid of the MCAT verbal section. I would have had a perfect score if it wasn't for my 9 on the verbal section.

2) I would only allow applicants to hold five acceptances at a time. I had a friend last year who received 26 interviews and got into 18 freaking schools (true story). The guy held each and every one of his acceptances until he heard from his non-rolling first choice school. He held the spots until March while other pre-meds were praying and agonizing for an acceptance anywhere.

3) I would get rid of stress interviews. I got one of those and it sucked completely. I got so worried I met with the dean a couple weeks later.

 

[chiz2kul]

Ya some changes need to be done in the whole admissions process.
Firstly, its to freaking expensive.

Maybe most schools should have some pre-interview, pre-sec. screening, so that you dont need to apply and waste your cash if they know they are gonna reject you anyways.

Put a freaking cap on sec. application fees. Thats just ridiculous.

Maybe have a system for students (via AMCAS) that provides discounted flying/car rental rates for med students. That would be so awesome.

Maybe remove the whole instate/out of state rubbish. I know, thats near impossible, but its also very stupid. I think.

Ya...

 

[armybound]

I'm not exactly sure how I would change it, but I think there needs to be an emphasis away from numbers and towards personality, achievement, etc.

All I really know is that I would like to be involved in the admissions process some day. I want to be able to review files with my perspective on what I think makes a good applicant. Maybe I'd like to interview some day, I don't know. Either way, I want to get involved.

 

[Szent]

I would like for schools to provide inputs on the weaknesses of your application during the application cycle, instead of waiting until the end of the cycle/rejection to let you know. I would like to be able to spend the next 6 months of the application cycle working to improve than having to wait, then try to cram improvements into 3-4 months to get it onto my next AMCAS application should I not get in this cycle.

 

[MsKrispyKreme]

I would make schools use the primary application as a 1st hurdle (i.e. heavy screening) followed by secondary applications with fees capped at $50.

Prior to interview invites, a score should be given out of 33 points for your gpa/mcat & out of 33 points for your essays/ECs. (A score out of 1 point should be given for your MCAT writing score. ) Interview invites would be given out to those scoring 50+ points regardless of distribution.

All interviews would be closed file to make sure that the other factors do not affect the interview score (which would also be out of 33 points). Travel grants would also be awarded to OOS applicants up to 50% of total costs. Acceptances should be offered to students with 85+ points.

I would eliminate physics from the pre-med curriculum. I did very well in those courses, but they're entirely a waste of time. Any small amount of physics necessary for success as a physician can be taught in the M1 or M2 years or during residency.

 

[armybound]

I would like for schools to provide inputs on the weaknesses of your application during the application cycle, instead of waiting until the end of the cycle/rejection to let you know. I would like to be able to spend the next 6 months of the application cycle working to improve than having to wait, then try to cram improvements into 3-4 months to get it onto my next AMCAS application should I not get in this cycle.

That would also be nice.

 

[AugustWinterMan]

End the process in December - acceptances, interviews, and waitlists. The application process begins sufficiently early enough to make this a seemingly easy transition. This means that a significant amount of stress, time and bs is taken out of the equation, and graduate schools use essentially a six-month timeframe. This would allow applicants who don't get into medical school enough time to tinker with their application, retake the MCAT, etc.. to improve for the next cycle.

I would redo the secondary process from a financial standpoint - the process is so exorbitantly expensive and without any real justification.

My .02.

 

[ANF1986]

You're not, are you? I mean, both attempts are recorded. Isn't that totally fair?

No, its not. If you earned an A in the course the second time, that is all that should be factored into your GPA. You legitimately earned that grade and mastered the material, your previous score should be irrelevant.

 

[RySerr21]

1) I would get rid of the MCAT verbal section. I would have had a perfect score if it wasn't for my 9 on the verbal section.

1) cry me a friken river dude. seriously?

No, its not. If you earned an A in the course the second time, that is all that should be factored into your GPA. You legitimately earned that grade and mastered the material, your previous score should be irrelevant.

If it bothers you that much, then apply DO! Thats how they do it. And I agree with pianola that its not really that unfair to include the previous grade. You earned that grade as well, just because you dont like it doesnt mean it should go away. If there was an extenuating circumstance that caused the poor grade then you can explain that, and you can also show you would have done well by retaking it and getting an A.

 

[Steeler7588]

No, its not. If you earned an A in the course the second time, that is all that should be factored into your GPA. You legitimately earned that grade and mastered the material, your previous score should be irrelevant.

You earned an A the second time, because they were fair enough to give you a second chance. You didn't get an A the first time though, and that should be judged. You didn't master the material on the first chance you were given, how is that not relevant?

You earned an A the second time you saw the material... congrats.

 

[ANF1986]

You earned an A the second time, because they were fair enough to give you a second chance. You didn't get an A the first time though, and that should be judged. You didn't master the material on the first chance you were given, how is that not relevant?

You earned an A the second time you saw the material... congrats.

Yea that makes sense...? A lot of people dont do things right the first time around. That is because no one is perfect. I dont see the sense in penalizing those who are not perfect their entire lives. Yes some people do have extenuating circumstances, and rather then have to explain that the re-take should speak for itself. I am not advocating an unlimited amount of re-takes be disregarded, but perhaps AMCAS could give someone 3 as a limit. Of course, this bothers those who have been golden children their entire lives and never made a mistake (or lived in the real world for that matter).

 

[ButImLETired]

I dunno, I continue to feel that the main thing that should be done is to make EVERY med school act the same. Have working (and useful) status pages, inform students of what's going on with their file (we certainly pay enough for the privilege of being looked at), tell students what kind of "fit" they're looking for, and stick to the SAME schedule, whether rolling or non-rolling. Just stick to ONE thing and make it transparent so there's no need for people to freak out and constantly wonder what's going on. And if I'm rejected, reject me. Not in March, but when you make a decision. Silent rejections should NOT happen. A 100-150 dollar secondary fee should at least be worth courtesy on the part of the admissions staff, information about my status, and an actual rejection letter when the time comes, so I can erase the school and figure out plan B.

 

[patekpremed]

I would completely change the pre medical curiculum.......aka physics would be long gone. Organic chemistry would not be a requirement either, or at the most just one semester. Maybe just one semester of ochem and one of biochem (some schools even offer that as an option). I dont really remember much about it but i dont imagine the 2nd semester of gen chem is all too relevant. Just a basic chemistry course would teach us all the chem necessary to understand the physiology and stuff like that. Basically, I would substitute these courses for higher level bio courses that are actually relelvant to medicine.......human anatomy, human physiology, etc. I'd be much wmore worried if an applicant got a C in human physiology than if an applicant got a C in physics.

I would eliminate physics from the pre-med curriculum. I did very well in those courses, but they're entirely a waste of time. Any small amount of physics necessary for success as a physician can be taught in the M1 or M2 years or during residency.

Have either of you taken physiology? I am taking it on a graduate level and it is almost ENTIRELY based on laws learned in physics (hence the name...). Although SOME physics may seem pretty pointless(electricity & magnetism), most of it will come back to be relevant at some point during your medical career.

A successful understanding of physics will increase the chances of successful understanding of physiology tremendously. Most of my classmates in physiology right now that are doing well, claim to have done well in physics. Most who are doing poorly, say they didn't do too hot. Physics is something you need to be fairly good at for physiology. Most of medical school (at least the first 2 years) is devoted to physiology, so why would you care what someone got in an undergrad physiology course? They are going to have to learn the same material in much more depth again. However, if they did well in UG physics, chances are they can do pretty well in physiology (on a medical school level) also.

You can't "learn as you go" because understanding normal human physiology is critical before learning patho-physiology(i.e. how diseases work).

I know the frustration with physics because it really does seem pointless, but from my point-of-view, it is one of the most critical concepts in a pre-medical curriculum. However, I WOULD take out the ridiculous labs that accompany many classes where you don't learn anything half the time. Not only do they take up dozens of hours per week (including having to write up the reports) but they only usually count for 1 freaking hour of credit!

 

[Abaroth]

Make all pre-meds conduct their interview with a lie-detector attached to them.

 

[ANF1986]

Make all pre-meds conduct their interview with a lie-detector attached to them.

Lol give me a break...Those are the most scientifically inaccurate pieces of **** ever invented...This just gave me an image of George Orwells "1984"...lol

 

[MsKrispyKreme]

Have either of you taken physiology?

I took undergrad physiology course before I took physics --> A.

I took 2 advanced physiology courses on the grad level --> A & A.

You have no point, and the rest of your post was pure dribble.

Anything one learns in undergrad is pretty much out the window 2 months into M1.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Anything one learns in undergrad is pretty much out the window 2 months into M1.

Yeah...this whole "physics is useless" argument is kind of ignoring that point, if nothing else. If we went that route, college would only consist of neurobio, anatomy, physiology, gen chem, biochem, genetics, intro psych, and maybe another course or two for pre-meds. You can dislike physics all you want, but that doesn't make it useless.

 

[Vihsadas]

Now wait a second. About this whole physics talk...In this case, I'm definitely biased, but I am a strong supporter of physics and math requirements.

You may not use that math or physics knowledge in medicine, but those two disciplines (along with engy I guess) are specifically designed to develop comfort and proficiency with complex logical thought. Those are skills that will stay with you throughout medicine, and throughout your career. I vehemenently disagree that physics and math skills are not important. Those types of courses are orders of magnitude more effective at teaching students to dissect and analyze complex arguments.
To preempt the argument that biological sciences like physiology and biochemistry are just as good at building critical thinking skills; it is my personal opinion from my own experience that this is just not true. To the contrary, it was my comfort with math and physics that made biochem, physio, and organic chemistry so doable for me. The spatial reasoning, linking of logical arguments and cause->effect critical thinking I gained from my physical sciences is what made those courses manageable.

 

[jult24er]

(sGPA + cGPA) / 2 * 10 + MCAT. Interview to check that applicant is a decent human being. Collect $20. Next!

 

[AZFutureDoc]

I have no problem with physics, and I also think its good. It shows that you can learn a language thats entirely new to premeds, a systematical thought process, and apply it to unfamiliar problems. Honestly, just looking at how you work a physics problem, its probably the closest thing to practicing medicine as far as the thinking and execution go.

 

[JackInTheBox]

Now wait a second. About this whole physics talk...In this case, I'm definitely biased, but I am a strong supporter of physics and math requirements.

You may not use that math or physics knowledge in medicine, but those two disciplines (along with engy I guess) are specifically designed to develop comfort and proficiency with complex logical thought. Those are skills that will stay with you throughout medicine, and throughout your career. I vehemenently disagree that physics and math skills are not important. Those types of courses are orders of magnitude more effective at teaching students to dissect and analyze complex arguments.
To preempt the argument that biological sciences like physiology and biochemistry are just as good at building critical thinking skills; it is my personal opinion from my own experience that this is just not true. To the contrary, it was my comfort with math and physics that made biochem, physio, and organic chemistry so doable for me. The spatial reasoning, linking of logical arguments and cause->effect critical thinking I gained from my physical sciences is what made those courses manageable.

QFMFT. I saw so many pre-meds struggle with classes like genetics because they went into it thinking that the typical approach of repetition, memorization, and regurgitation would work when it really required more critical and outside-the-box thinking. I loved genetics partly for those reasons (and partly for a little bit of schadenfreude ). I gave those reasons and others (minus the schadenfreude) when an interviewer asked me what my favorite class was during undergrad, and I got the unintended follow-up question of "you didn't say that because you knew I was a geneticist, did you?"

 

[ButImLETired]

Not that the physics talk hasn't been (ahem...horribly nerdy...ahem) totally fascinating, but can we give other kinds of suggestions, too? I find them interesting.

 

[jult24er]

More transparency.

If you use a formula, put it on your web-site.

If you are looking for something, put it on your website.

Generic terms like "leadership" or "compassion" are not helpful. Say how you judge those qualities.

 

[pianola]

Yea that makes sense...? A lot of people dont do things right the first time around. That is because no one is perfect. I dont see the sense in penalizing those who are not perfect their entire lives. Yes some people do have extenuating circumstances, and rather then have to explain that the re-take should speak for itself. I am not advocating an unlimited amount of re-takes be disregarded, but perhaps AMCAS could give someone 3 as a limit. Of course, this bothers those who have been golden children their entire lives and never made a mistake (or lived in the real world for that matter).

That's fine. But you (hypothetical "you") made the mistake of having your first mistake recorded...you could have withdrawn or dropped or, well, done better the first time around. You had a fair shot the first time. You had a fair shot the second time. At least they didn't just say "your first time is your last, good-bye." It's not a penalty to have the honest first-time grade reported. It's just...a recording of what you got.

You only get one shot at medical school...you can't exactly repeat courses (at best you can remediate, but only if you're totally totally doing horribly).

So I don't think it's unfair.

Of course, I'd like to redo my non-A grades, but I can live with what I got and accept the consequences.

 

[RySerr21]

Have either of you taken physiology? I am taking it on a graduate level and it is almost ENTIRELY based on laws learned in physics (hence the name...). Although SOME physics may seem pretty pointless(electricity & magnetism), most of it will come back to be relevant at some point during your medical career.

A successful understanding of physics will increase the chances of successful understanding of physiology tremendously. Most of my classmates in physiology right now that are doing well, claim to have done well in physics. Most who are doing poorly, say they didn't do too hot. Physics is something you need to be fairly good at for physiology. Most of medical school (at least the first 2 years) is devoted to physiology, so why would you care what someone got in an undergrad physiology course? They are going to have to learn the same material in much more depth again. However, if they did well in UG physics, chances are they can do pretty well in physiology (on a medical school level) also.

You can't "learn as you go" because understanding normal human physiology is critical before learning patho-physiology(i.e. how diseases work).

I know the frustration with physics because it really does seem pointless, but from my point-of-view, it is one of the most critical concepts in a pre-medical curriculum. However, I WOULD take out the ridiculous labs that accompany many classes where you don't learn anything half the time. Not only do they take up dozens of hours per week (including having to write up the reports) but they only usually count for 1 freaking hour of credit!

I am a kines major (not at a large public university where you take tennis and racquetball and what not....i just learned that kines majors can vary widely across schools but thats a different story)

The kines major at my schools is heavy with courses on the human body and human movement. So, to answer your questions simply. Yes I have taken human physiology...two semesters of it. I ahve also taken exercise physiology. I took physics after I took those courses and I was at the top of my class for all of them.

I got a B- in first semester physics and i worked my ass off. I'm not good at it. I rocked physiology like it was nothing...it just came easy for me.

It may be this way b/c I dont find physics concepts difficult. Its the ridiculous mathy type problem using useless equations and stuff like that I am not good at. Mainly b/c I dont care about it and am not interested in it. This is the only reason i got a 9 on the PS section....b/c most of the questions were conceptual and could be inferred from teh passages and a basic understanding of physics concepts. If it had been more geraed towards solving phsyics problems and using equations and such, i would have received like a 4.