What Classes to take next fall?

[iamlonely]

I will be a junior. So i finished all of my premed requirements except for the 2 semesters of english. Last semester i did orgchem2,cell metabolism,etc.

But if i plan to be a biology major or anything else in the biological sciences, i'll have to take a biology lab, which is mostly biochem, like separation of dna, etc. I hate that stuff. So i'm thinking of going into math and then my classes would look like this:

honours modern algebra1
analysis1
honours probability
honours pde
honours quantum mechanics

none of those courses have any labs, it's just the lectures... But analysis1 is considered the easiest of all of them. So it seems like the people taking those classes either get straight A's in them(because the skills set is similar in all of them) or they fail... I'm afraid to be in the latter category, as the most rigorous class i've taken so far is honours linear algebra, and ive struggled in it. And someone told me that modern algebra is exponentially more difficult... But in case i wind up being one of those students that are really into this stuff, i'll be able to sit on a park bench and write my equations on a piece of paper on a sunny day while the biochem students are sweating in the lab. And 1 lab report in that biochem lab is about 12 pages long, while 1 hw in modern algebra is <2 pages long!

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[iamlonely]

also, most students that are math majors took analysis1 and 2 in their sophomore year, so if they sign up for the same modern algebra and probability courses, they really know what they're getting into...

 

[bmcgilligan]

I would reconsider skipping out on the biochem lab. Some med schools require both biochem 1 and 2 with labs...mine does at least. Check with all the med schools you may possibly be interested in before not taking it. You would hate to have to cram that in right before you matriculate later.

 

[iamlonely]

wow, i havent looked at those requirements. i thought it was: 1 year orgchem+lab and that they recommended some bio classes beyond the general bio (i took cell biology; cell metabolism; mammalian physiology1,2).

But this biochem class that i do not want to take is the following:

One 1-hr lecture and one 6-hr laboratory period per week. Departmental approval for both sessions of BIOL 301 must be obtained from the Biology Department at registration. This course teaches the experimental methods which have been used to develop concepts introduced in U1 courses. Students learn modern techniques by which cellular systems are analyzed. In addition, an introduction to bioinformatics methods and their role in analysis will be provided. Good data analysis and report preparation are strongly encouraged.


Readings:
The Laboratory Manual is essential and available at the MBSU. There is no assigned textbook, but texts used in BIOL 200 and 201 (for e.g. Lodish) are very useful. Selected articles are recommended in the Manual and are available at the Reserve Desk of the Redpath Library.


Evaluation:
The grade for the course is based on laboratory reports (60%), lecture quizzes (10%) and a final written examination (30%). Lab reports are required when each experiment is completed; these are evaluated by the lab demonstrators. The final examination stresses the theoretical and analytical aspects of the course material.

 

[Pontifex Maximus]

VERY few schools require Biochem at all, much less 1 and 2 WITH lab. Check into it.

 

[ShyRem]

modern algebra... if that's abstract algebra, all my homework was 6-10 pages every week, and all proofs (a few memorable proofs were 2 pages long by themselves).

Analysis - aka advanced calculus, or real analysis? that was the only class that i turned in 18 pages of homework and got a ZERO. A FREEKIN' ZERO. I worked my a$$ off in that class. It was all proofs, and we started the semester with 31 math majors - and ended with 8 people passing. There were 20 math majors that didn't graduate because of that class (required for major).

I have rarely heard of people taking those classes as a sophomore - usually multi-variable calculus takes the beginning of the sophomore year. (that being said, I started college the first time around in calc III and took advanced calc as a freshman. boy was that ever stupid on my part.) Those two classes are usually junior or senior level classes and they suck the life out of you.

Probability was incredibly simple. And lots of fun.

I found chemistry MUCH easier as I went higher in the course work. Math got MUCH harder the higher you went.

 

[Iwy Em Hotep]

I will be a junior. So i finished all of my premed requirements except for the 2 semesters of english. Last semester i did orgchem2,cell metabolism,etc.

But if i plan to be a biology major or anything else in the biological sciences, i'll have to take a biology lab, which is mostly biochem, like separation of dna, etc. I hate that stuff. So i'm thinking of going into math and then my classes would look like this:

honours modern algebra1
analysis1
honours probability
honours pde
honours quantum mechanics

none of those courses have any labs, it's just the lectures... But analysis1 is considered the easiest of all of them. So it seems like the people taking those classes either get straight A's in them(because the skills set is similar in all of them) or they fail... I'm afraid to be in the latter category, as the most rigorous class i've taken so far is honours linear algebra, and ive struggled in it. And someone told me that modern algebra is exponentially more difficult... But in case i wind up being one of those students that are really into this stuff, i'll be able to sit on a park bench and write my equations on a piece of paper on a sunny day while the biochem students are sweating in the lab. And 1 lab report in that biochem lab is about 12 pages long, while 1 hw in modern algebra is <2 pages long!

<2 pages long? Nuh-uh. Maybe for probability and PDE, which will be the easiest classes of your hypothetical schedule. Algebra and analysis (if we're talking real analysis and not advanced calculus) are tree-destroying, proof-filled endeavors.

It's a do-able schedule, but you should probably know what you're getting yourself into. In my opinion, quantum is only the third hardest class you're taking, and you're welcome to search the forums for the number of people who wouldn't touch pchem with a 10' pole.

 

[iamlonely]

Hey, i think the courses have slightly different names. i.e. 'advanced calculus' at my school is just continuation of calc3. And i did take calc3 in freshman year and got an easy A. This sophomore year the only math courses i took(spring semester it was) were linear algebra and advanced calc. I thought honours linear algebra=abstract algebra:
Matrix algebra, determinants, systems of linear equations. Abstract vector spaces, inner product spaces, Fourier series. Linear transformations and their matrix representations. Eigenvalues and eigenvectors, diagonalizable and defective matrices, positive definite and semidefinite matrices. Quadratic and Hermitian forms, generalized eigenvalue problems, simultaneous reduction of quadratic forms. Applications.

this course indeed had 5-6 page hw assignemnts, though there were only 6 of them throughout the semester. But they were 5-6pages, because they included applications. The proofs were usually only 2 pages of the hw and they took most of my time... I know someone that took algebra3(or modernalgebra1) and the hw there was 2 pages, but it was indeed exponentially more difficult... I.e. i dont doubt that it may take me a whole day to come up with 1 paragraph out of those 2 pages... I also took diff eqntns in the freshman year, and the hw there were even longer than 5-6pages but much easier, because the course was only slightly harder than calc3...

here are the descriptions of those courses(i'm not sure if analysis1 is same as real analysis at your school, because my school offers analysis1-4, and only after that there is the graduate analysis, though some people skip analysis3-4)

Analysis1:
A rigorous presentation of sequences and of real numbers and basic properties of continuous and differentiable functions on the real line.
Analysis2:
Series of functions including power series. Riemann integration in one variable. Elementary functions

Honours Probability(analysis2 is the prereq):
Basic combinatorial probability. Introductory distribution theory of univariate and multivariate distributions with special reference to the Binomial, Poisson, Gamma and Normal distributions. Characteristic functions. Weak law of large numbers. Central limit theorem

Honours PDE (although it has adcal and diffeqtn as prereqs, the most important prereq is that linear algebra course)
First order partial differential equations, geometric theory, classification of second order linear equations, Sturm-Liouville problems, orthogonal functions and Fourier series, eigenfunction expansions, separation of variables for heat, wave and Laplace equations, Green's function methods, uniqueness theorems.

Honours Algebra3
Introduction to monoids, groups, permutation groups; the isomorphism theorems for groups; the theorems of Cayley, Lagrange and Sylow; structure of groups of low order. Introduction to ring theory; integral domains, fields, quotient field of an integral domain; polynomial rings; unique factorization domains.

 

[iamlonely]

My father told me that PDE is not easy at all. That it, just like Quantum Mechanics, requires lots of work and lots of thinking. It's not just using some formulas, like in diffeqntns, it's actually rigorous. He said that i'll be making lots of mistakes in that class, because the problems are long, and I'll never get an A.

As for anlaysis and modern algebra, he said, if i can do linear(abstract) algebra, then those courses should be similar, but he cannot assess how i did in linear algebra, because i didnt ask him to solve any problems for me in that course.

What really pisses me off is that the average grade in courses like modern algebra is at best a B. While most of the students there are 'honours math majors', i.e. they all want to become professors... And the professor is willing to even write you a good recommendation and say that you're bright and can succeed in math, if you get a B, but medschools obviously dont think so. In biology classes, there are many more kids in each class, and yet the average grade in the class is often B+/A-. All one has to do in those classes is read the book and memorize the lectures, and have a sleepless night before the final, and you're sure to go away with an A. But in math, i'm afraid that several days after the final i may think i got an A, but it turns out i got a B I'm afraid that just doing/understanding the hw is not enough to get an A, you also need to think really well on every one of those final exams.... while in bio i could just come to the exam drunk and sleepy and just circle the answers that seem similar to whatever the prof said during his lectures.

 

[iamlonely]

Actually, i also dont want to take physical chem... And it is required of the bio majors, just like the biochem lab. And everybody hates those classes....

What i really like about my math courses is that there are about 20 students in a class, or even less (in my linear algebra class there were 21 but fewer came in to lectures) and the professor writes out everything on the blackboard... And students can come in to discuss all their hw with the prof. Such learning environments are not possible in the biological sciences.


Also i like all of my science lectures, that is i feel i have learned something. I find them all more interesting than either engineering or business,etc. But i dont find any science area more interesting than another, and I would always prefer to lie on the beach, rather than do any academic work... In math, i hope at least in september, i'll be able to drive to some lake and do my hw right htere after class, as opposed to taking useless lab courses. But then in math, i'm punished by the tough grading curve...

 

[ShyRem]

Ah. My school uses "advanced calculus" for real analysis (our book was even called "real analysis - a friendly approach". If you see this book - RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!)

linear algebra is NOTHING like abstract algebra. Abstract is group theory, isomorphisms, homomorphisms, ring theory, sylow theorems, etc. etc. etc. And as I said above, both of those classes were pages and pages of paper, endless sleepless nights of frustration, trash cans overflowing with crumpled paper, and only one "A" in a class of 30. Plenty of "F"s. I think the class average for real analysis was like a C/D, and the average for abstract was the same. They were not simple classes by any means, and curves were non-existent.

I liked Pchem. If you like math, you should do well in Pchem.

 

[Shredder]

economics and business. i guarantee you will learn more practical knowledge. they will be easier As too and you will have cooler classmates. and more attractive classmates.

 

[Medikit]

Actually, i also dont want to take physical chem... And it is required of the bio majors, just like the biochem lab. And everybody hates those classes.

I don't see why you would steer clear of Physical Chemistry but not Quantum Mechanics

 

[HessExpress]

It really doesn't even matter. Just get a degree.

 

[Shredder]

It really doesn't even matter. Just get a degree.

this is true but you might as well learn some useful knowledge while you are at it. it costs money and time either way

 

[iamlonely]

shyrem, so you also say that 'abstract algebra' is harder than analysis. my school also doesnt use any curves, thats why physiology courses sometimes have an A- avg while this abstract algebra has something like a B average. And this is even though the lower level physiology courses may have soemthing like 200 students who dont even know what they're going to be. But most people taking abstract algebra already got an A in both analysis2 and linear algebra, and they want to be professors... So i'm afraid in such a course, i'll really struggle... But maybe then in the other courses like pde and probability i'll be getting easy A's?

so why did you take these courses, as a premed? I think i'll print out some of the notes from that course given last year and try to do the first couple of assignments over the summer, to see if i'm getting any of it. i think a great part in my decision is that in september i can still do all my math hw outside, since all i need is a pen and a piece of paper.

 

[iamlonely]

shredder, I took in freshman year an accounting class and got a C+. beat that for having pathetic grades and aspiring to go to medschool(this is why i am so sensitive about the gpa now). it indeed didnt require much intelligence, but i certainly did not find it interesting. and as for classmates, i think the best ones are those that aspire to be professors and i think math is much more useful than 'business'. because if a math graduate wants to read an advanced finance or economics textbook, he'll have no trouble...

 

[iamlonely]

medikit, phys. chem i believe is similar to 'thermal physics', except much less rigor but many more applications/memorizations. also the class has many more students, and if the professor even writes on the blackboard, i'm sure most of his derivations will be hard to follow! physics/math courses have a much more didactic atmosphere. but it is true, i may very well find the course too challenging... but it certainly won't be boring.

i think i'll try to read a first chapter in the quantum mechanics textbook and see if i can handle the exercises.

 

[DrBowtie]

Im shocked that you can get into a QM class. It is usually a fourth year physics major class with a mix of undergrad and grad students. Is it given by the chem department or physics?

 

[iamlonely]

of course, it's given mainly for junior honours physics students or joint honours math/physics majors. but at my school they dont even enforce what courses you register for, i.e. a freshman could sign up... the main recommended prereq is this honours linear algebra course. i think most students will be taking as a corerequisite pde and statistical mechanics or probability. you usually take 2 semesters of quantum mechanics, and in senior year, you can take grad courses like quantum field theory, electrodynamics, and/or solid state physics. also honours students are encouraged to get paid for research the summer before senior year but receive 0 credits, and to take research(continue it) during the senior year itself, but pay for the credits they receive in it.

 

[Scarletbegonias]

note: it's "honors" not "honours". Excuse the post if someone else already corrected.

 

[Freakingout]

note: it's "honors" not "honours". Excuse the post if someone else already corrected.

Honours, colours, favours. There is nothing wrong with spelling them that way.

 

[Shredder]

shredder, I took in freshman year an accounting class and got a C+. beat that for having pathetic grades and aspiring to go to medschool(this is why i am so sensitive about the gpa now). it indeed didnt require much intelligence, but i certainly did not find it interesting. and as for classmates, i think the best ones are those that aspire to be professors and i think math is much more useful than 'business'. because if a math graduate wants to read an advanced finance or economics textbook, he'll have no trouble...

i think accounting is supposed to be one of the more boring aspects of econ and business, and one of the harder ones too