What comes to mind when you think of pre meds who think volunteering is beneath them?

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

I have several friends like this. Idk why but it really bugs me.

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[theonlytycrane]

Playing devil's advocate: it's part of the admissions game to be played. Once you're in med school, a lot of your peers won't volunteer at all, but it may depend on the block. My friend that's an angel of a human-being spent his 2 free hours each weekend during our anatomy block volunteering at a free clinic. I slept and/or worked-out to keep sanity. At the pre-med stage- just do it because you have to. Things change in medical school and for residency. The most competitive specialities are related to lifestyle and $, not volunteering and pure service. I don't think that makes one type of doctor "bad" or "worse" than another though.

 

[Lifeblood_20]

I always marvel at the hypocrisy of volunteering in the premed context.
Like, as a volunteer you are supposed to be doing it from the goodness of your heart and expecting nothing in return. But no, you ARE there at least partly for your self interest.
It makes me sad because many people who really need help are being exploited by apathetic volunteers.

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

Happens all the time among premeds. Then there are the premeds who only get a leadership position only for their resume. Then after they get the leadership position they no longer do their jobs or show up.

 

[JMilo]

Playing devil's advocate: it's part of the admissions game to be played. Once you're in med school, a lot of your peers won't volunteer at all, but it may depend on the block. My friend that's an angel of a human-being spent his 2 free hours each weekend during our anatomy block volunteering at a free clinic. I slept and/or worked-out to keep sanity. At the pre-med stage- just do it because you have to. Things change in medical school and for residency. The most competitive specialities are related to lifestyle and $, not volunteering and pure service. I don't think that makes one type of doctor "bad" or "worse" than another though.

I agree, and I must say that I would probably not have volunteered if it were not a requirement. That being said, I have never thought that volunteering is beneath me. I've never walked into a session with the foreign family I tutor and thought "wow, you really suck at English, I am way above you". Doing it as a prereq is one thing, but thinking that you are above helping others is plain ignorant.

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

I agree, and I must say that I would probably not have volunteered if it were not a requirement. That being said, I have never thought that volunteering is beneath me. I've never walked into a session with the foreign family I tutor and thought "wow, you really suck at English, I am way above you". Doing it as a prereq is one thing, but thinking that you are above helping others is plain ignorant.

Yeah I think we can all say we first did it because its a requirement and maybe some still do it for that reason. It only becomes a problem when someone goes and doesn't really help out because they think its beneath them. You can tell they don't care and will sometimes even flat out say it. If you are doing it only because its a requirement but pick things that do interest you and at least act like you care that doesn't bother me.

 

[HomeSkool]

What I think:

What I see:

 

[LizzyM]

With respect to the people who do it as a resume enhancer, as always, The Onion nailed it years ago: https://www.theonion.com/soup-kitchen-volunteers-hate-college-application-paddin-1819566808

"He can talk all he wants about how enriching this experience has been, but it's completely obvious that all he's thinking about is how good this is going to look on his transcript," Perkins said. "Here at the Salvation Army, we try to appreciate all the help God sends our way, but I draw the line with that little ****."

As for those who believe that volunteering is for suckers, I also think back on an applicant who was adamant that he would not volunteer because his time was valuable and he was not going to give any service to anyone without remuneration. He did get into medical school but he lasted less than a year. As I recall, he left to pursue a career in accounting. (true story).

 

[Goro]

I have several friends like this. Idk why but it really bugs me.

If they think it's beneath them, then they likely will not be doctors, or hate being doctors.

Yes, we know that lots of people volunteer reluctantly, and do so with a checklist mentality. But here's what I've noticed at interviews:

The people who love volunteer work and helping others have their passion shine through. This is palpable.

Those who have the checklist mentality lack that passion, and give, at best, mediocre answers at interview when asked about their volunteering experiences.

For many pre-meds life begins and ends with getting into med school. They seem to be 100% unaware that Medicine is a service profession.

 

[Osminog]

The standard techniques of pre-med sociopaths (Volume I):

1. Pre-med signs in at hospital for volunteering; goes home; comes back to hospital to sign out -- does this every weekend for several semesters straight.
2. Pre-med signs up for 15 college clubs, runs for a leadership position in every one of them, and then abruptly stops attending all club meetings.
3. Pre-med pretends that he conducted 1000+ hours of groundbreaking research with professor... who's actually a family friend working in academia; family friend writes glowing letter about the student and his (fake) contributions.
4. Pre-med drastically inflates shadowing hours on application; physician that was being shadowed is family friend and vouches for him.
5. Pre-med hires a penniless English Literature PhD student to write beautiful essays for him about his fake volunteering and shadowing experiences.
6. Pre-med starts a small non-profit that's registered and has an admirable mission statement on its website, with photographs and testimonials... but, in reality, the non-profit was defunct from the moment of its inception.

(True stories. These individuals are now MS2s and MS3s at respectable medical schools.)

 

[Goro]

The standard techniques of pre-med sociopaths (Volume I):

1. Pre-med signs in at hospital for volunteering; goes home; comes back to hospital to sign out -- does this every weekend for several semesters straight.
2. Pre-med signs up for 15 college clubs, runs for a leadership position in every one of them, and then abruptly stops attending all club meetings.
3. Pre-med pretends that he conducted 1000+ hours of groundbreaking research with professor... who's actually a family friend working in academia; family friend writes glowing letter about the student and his (fake) contributions.
4. Pre-med drastically inflates shadowing hours on application; physician that was being shadowed is family friend and vouches for him.
5. Pre-med hires a penniless English Literature PhD student to write beautiful essays for him about his fake volunteering and shadowing experiences.
6. Pre-med starts a small non-profit that's registered and has an admirable mission statement on its website, with photographs and testimonials... but, in reality, the non-profit was defunct from the moment of its inception.

(True stories. These individuals are now MS2s and MS3s at respectable medical schools.)

Do you think that these people will make it through their rotations or clinical years?

 

[Osminog]

Do you think that these people will make it through their rotations or clinical years?

I hope not.

 

[boogiecousins94]

The standard techniques of pre-med sociopaths (Volume I):

1. Pre-med signs in at hospital for volunteering; goes home; comes back to hospital to sign out -- does this every weekend for several semesters straight.
2. Pre-med signs up for 15 college clubs, runs for a leadership position in every one of them, and then abruptly stops attending all club meetings.
3. Pre-med pretends that he conducted 1000+ hours of groundbreaking research with professor... who's actually a family friend working in academia; family friend writes glowing letter about the student and his (fake) contributions.
4. Pre-med drastically inflates shadowing hours on application; physician that was being shadowed is family friend and vouches for him.
5. Pre-med hires a penniless English Literature PhD student to write beautiful essays for him about his fake volunteering and shadowing experiences.
6. Pre-med starts a small non-profit that's registered and has an admirable mission statement on its website, with photographs and testimonials... but, in reality, the non-profit was defunct from the moment of its inception.

(True stories. These individuals are now MS2s and MS3s at respectable medical schools.)

I know of someone who is published on a paper in a lab they never worked in- the PI is their parent but has a different last name so nobody probably knows. Yes I get that they could've helped or something but I find it very unlikely since they said they would never want to work in their parents lab because "its boring"

 

[Osminog]

I know of someone who is published on a paper in a lab they never worked in- the PI is their parent but has a different last name so nobody probably knows. Yes I get that they could've helped or something but I find it very unlikely since they said they would never want to work in their parents lab because "its boring"

Yep. It happens far more often than most would like to believe.

 

[waytoofoolish]

.

 

[freedoctor17]

Does volunteering in a research lab count? Because not gonna lie that's one thing I'd probably never have done if it wasn't gonna help my application. I'm glad I did because enjoyed it a lot at first (and I have a better idea of what research is now) but now it's become more like the "hmmm how much work can I get this undergrad to do for me while I sit at my desk and get paid for it" and believe it or not there have been a few weeks where it's been close to 30 hours worth. Hope that publication is actually as helpful as people say. Wouldn't mind a fresh start with research though because from what I've heard from others the labs they work in are much more reasonable.

 

[mimelim]

How much time have either of you spent volunteering this past year?

I certainly can't speak about @Goro or @LizzyM but I spent a shade under 100 hours in 2017 working for Habitat for Humanity and I couldn't begin to total the number of hours I have spent volunteering to help students, organizing shadowing, research, advising, tutoring, etc. But, it is probably north of 150 hours by itself. Doing some gorilla estimations... about half of our residents still do some sort of volunteer work with their time. The high person averages about 15 hours per week. ie. He volunteers every weekend day that he is not working at the hospital and then some. Many of the others volunteer during the holidays and virtually all of our residents volunteered during a recent natural disaster. (all that weren't personally affected by it).

Personally, I think that volunteering for causes and organizations that you support that lack the financial resources to adequately compensate you is rewarding and would hope that everyone, regardless of profession would find it the same as I. However, I think that it is far more important for future clinicians to be altruistic than medical school staff. Pure personal opinion, but I think that it would come into play more often.

 

[Piglet2020]

The standard techniques of pre-med sociopaths (Volume I):

1. Pre-med signs in at hospital for volunteering; goes home; comes back to hospital to sign out -- does this every weekend for several semesters straight.
2. Pre-med signs up for 15 college clubs, runs for a leadership position in every one of them, and then abruptly stops attending all club meetings.
3. Pre-med pretends that he conducted 1000+ hours of groundbreaking research with professor... who's actually a family friend working in academia; family friend writes glowing letter about the student and his (fake) contributions.
4. Pre-med drastically inflates shadowing hours on application; physician that was being shadowed is family friend and vouches for him.
5. Pre-med hires a penniless English Literature PhD student to write beautiful essays for him about his fake volunteering and shadowing experiences.
6. Pre-med starts a small non-profit that's registered and has an admirable mission statement on its website, with photographs and testimonials... but, in reality, the non-profit was defunct from the moment of its inception.

(True stories. These individuals are now MS2s and MS3s at respectable medical schools.)

Man I know plenty of people who did this (or something similar) and they went to pretty good schools. That's why people who have physician parents have it easy. Connections are pretty important when it comes to shadowing, clinical exp, etc

Very few pre-meds would volunteer if this were not a requirement. I can't say I would volunteer had it not been for the requirement, but once I got into the swing of things, I did enjoy it.

I feel like majority of people fake it till they make it.

 

[Goro]

How much time have either of you spent volunteering this past year?

Very little. However, I'm not going to spend my career in the service if others, you are. Not all patients are nice people, yet you're going to have to make LOTS of sacrifices for them. Hence, the requirements for service-type activities.

LizzyM as discussed her own volunteering in other posts.

Cone to think of it, I devote a lot of time advising pre-meds on how to get into med school, and med students on how to make it through their preclinical years

 

[mimelim]

Very little. However, I'm not going to spend my career in the service if others, you are. Not all patients are nice people, yet you're going to have to make LOTS of sacrifices for them. Hence, the requirements for service-type activities.

LizzyM as discussed her own volunteering in other posts.

Cone to think of it, I devote a lot of time advising pre-meds on how to get into med school, and med students on how to make it through their preclinical years

Don't short sell advising of students. I won't total it up anywhere or advertise it (certainly didn't include it in my previous post in this thread), but it makes a difference. I've said it before in other parts of this forum, but I helped out an MS3 on SDN a few years ago and now he is one of the best residents in my program. He is phenomenal and would have done amazing wherever he went, but I'd like to think that through a little guidance he fared a lot better in terms of aways, LOR, applying and matching. It is one of the few direct influences I've known about, but if you advise constantly from a good place with lots of experience, you are going to have a significant impact on some students.

 

[waytoofoolish]

.

 

[Goro]

Most medical students would not volunteer if it didn't benefit them in any way. I literally don't know a single person who has talked to me about how passionate they are about volunteering and how unselfish they are. Anyone who says these things would come across to me as incredibly fake.

I've been working since high school to help my parents. Probably not something you had to worry about. I now work 7 days a week because I'm saving up for med school. It's hard to find the time to volunteer.

But I manage and I do have some volunteering experience I can add on my application to appease the admissions folk. Would I do it if it wasn't required? Probably not. Most people are lying if they say they would and I personally hate it when people are being fake.

Additionally, most physicians today have never volunteered in their lives. None of the physicians I shadowed have volunteered in the past. They're still very good physicians and I don't see them as being "selfish". This is a relatively new thing in admissions. Just another tick box that will only benefit those who know about it.

Believe it or not it does benefit them.

1) it lets them know what they're getting into by volunteering with patients.

2) It shows off your altruism, and that impresses us. BTW, the fact that they would not do these things if they were not required is completely irrelevant. No one would take Orgo or Physics if they weren't requirements either.

3) It also shows them what type of life they are going to be getting into. You're entering a profession where you're going to have to miss kids' birthdays, holidays and significant family events because you're going to be taking care of a patients. And working up to 80 hours a week when you're a resident!

4) Do not indulge in the sin of solipcism. Just because you talk to people who aren't altruistic doesn't mean that med students and doctors aren't altruistic.

5) How many med school applicants have you interviewed?

 

[Robin-jay]

People who think volunteering is below them disgust me.

Main reason I want to be a physician: to directly and efficiently improve peoples lives.

Volunteering = way to improve peoples lives directly.

Being a physician = way to improve peoples lives and make a living doing so.

 

[Osminog]

Most medical students would not volunteer if it didn't benefit them in any way. I literally don't know a single person who has talked to me about how passionate they are about volunteering and how unselfish they are. Anyone who says these things would come across to me as incredibly fake.

Consider changing your username to "waytoocynical"...

Some people genuinely enjoy the warm, fuzzy feeling they get when they help others. Not everyone is in it for resume-padding. I volunteered for thousands of hours before I was even contemplating medical school (or any graduate/professional school for that matter). I'm no Mother Teresa, but volunteering has always been intrinsically important to me. Sorry if that sounds "incredibly fake" to you, lol.

 

[waytoofoolish]

.

 

[Lannister]

Most medical students would not volunteer if it didn't benefit them in any way. I literally don't know a single person who has talked to me about how passionate they are about volunteering and how unselfish they are. Anyone who says these things would come across to me as incredibly fake.

Totally disagree with this. I myself don't have a particularly strong passion for helping the undeserved, but a huge number of my classmates genuinely do. I spend a lot of time volunteering within the communities I am a part of (school, church), I do it because I love it and want to give back, not because it'll look good for residency programs.

 

[Robin-jay]

Consider changing your username to "waytoocynical"...

Some people genuinely enjoy the warm, fuzzy feeling they get when they help others. Not everyone is in it for resume-padding. I volunteered for thousands of hours before I was even contemplating medical school (or any graduate/professional school for that matter). I'm no Mother Teresa, but volunteering has always been intrinsically important to me. Sorry if that sounds "incredibly fake" to you, lol.

not fake =)

 

[MonkeyArrow]

No one would take Orgo or Physics if they weren't requirements either.

I disagree. I'm doing a physics minor and overloading my schedule to take courses that I'm interested in (humanities mostly) just for my personal enrichment, knowing well that it is going to 1) drop my GPA and/or 2) eat a lot of time I could be spending on ECs.

Also, for point 3, that is what shadowing is for.

Personally, I already have 1000+ hours of clinical volunteering just through HS. I know that I probably can't even count it on AMCAS. I didn't do that much volunteering because I enjoyed being altruistic or I had a warm and fuzzy feeling in my heart from helping people. In fact, I would say I got jaded and cynical pretty quickly and became indifferent towards patients. I volunteered because I loved the medicine and the people around me; I would get to push myself and learn more and take concepts that I am learning about at home and apply them in the real world. I was lucky to be surrounded by staff and physicians that liked to teach and pushed me to learn and that is why I loved being in the hospital.

 

[Robin-jay]

Totally disagree with this. I myself don't have a particularly strong passion for helping the undeserved, but a huge number of my classmates genuinely do. I spend a lot of time volunteering within the communities I am a part of (school, church), I do it because I love it and want to give back, not because it'll look good for residency programs.

I agree with Lannister, I found a couple organizations I volunteered for very worth-while and would have 100% done it again even without med. school.

 

[Robin-jay]

People on the actual admission committees such as LizzyM and Goro legitimately provide insight to students for very little rewards on here, and that is commendable.

 

[Robin-jay]

No one would take Orgo or Physics if they weren't requirements either.

I loved organic chemistry, but I would probably take you up on physics. Equation manipulation is overrated.

 

[donutzebra]

Most medical students would not volunteer if it didn't benefit them in any way. I literally don't know a single person who has talked to me about how passionate they are about volunteering and how unselfish they are. Anyone who says these things would come across to me as incredibly fake.

I've been working since high school to help my parents. Probably not something you had to worry about. I now work 7 days a week because I'm saving up for med school. It's hard to find the time to volunteer.

But I manage and I do have some volunteering experience I can add on my application to appease the admissions folk. Would I do it if it wasn't required? Probably not. Most people are lying if they say they would and I personally hate it when people are being fake.

Additionally, most physicians today have never volunteered in their lives. None of the physicians I shadowed have volunteered in the past. They're still very good physicians and I don't see them as being "selfish". This is a relatively new thing in admissions. Just another tick box that will only benefit those who know about it.

It is perfectly legitimate to have more than one motive for one's actions and decisions.
i.e. Volunteering because you enjoy serving the underserved and having a positive impact on their lives AND because it would be beneficial to your application.

In my opinion, as long as you're putting in the hard work, passion, and compassion, the person who's volunteering for both of the above reasons is no less commendable than the person who's only volunteering out of the goodness of his/her heart.

 

[TheAppleJuice]

i'd say they probably volunteered somewhere they did not enjoy or that kept them bored. maybe all it would take it a change of place

 

[Goro]

Shadowing is to simply see what a doctors day is like and to see how different doctors approach the practice of medicine.

I disagree. I'm doing a physics minor and overloading my schedule to take courses that I'm interested in (humanities mostly) just for my personal enrichment, knowing well that it is going to 1) drop my GPA and/or 2) eat a lot of time I could be spending on ECs.

Also, for point 3, that is what shadowing is for.

Personally, I already have 1000+ hours of clinical volunteering just through HS. I know that I probably can't even count it on AMCAS. I didn't do that much volunteering because I enjoyed being altruistic or I had a warm and fuzzy feeling in my heart from helping people. In fact, I would say I got jaded and cynical pretty quickly and became indifferent towards patients. I volunteered because I loved the medicine and the people around me; I would get to push myself and learn more and take concepts that I am learning about at home and apply them in the real world. I was lucky to be surrounded by staff and physicians that liked to teach and pushed me to learn and that is why I loved being in the hospital.

 

[boogiecousins94]

Also @waytoofoolish , the reason you don't hear medical students boasting about how they volunteer is because

1) people who truly enjoy volunteering do it for the people they give their time to, not recognition from others (peers)
2) They're not going to go around telling people about their volunteering unless they were doing it solely to be recognized by their peers (which would then come across as fake)

I work 45-50 hours a week and am gone 10 hours a day but still volunteer probably 3-4 hours a week total between 2-3 places, if you actually enjoy it you make time

 

[jazzmetal]

I volunteered for thousands of hours before I was even contemplating medical school

Me too! And to put a different spin on it - there are a zillion ways to volunteer, e.g., nonprofit arts organizations, current affairs orgs putting on events, trail restoration, beach clean up days... I always liked it for the leadership experience and hanging around with like-minded people as much as the feeling of giving.

 

[Robin-jay]

Me too! And to put a different spin on it - there are a zillion ways to volunteer, e.g., nonprofit arts organizations, current affairs orgs putting on events, trail restoration, beach clean up days... I always liked it for the leadership experience and hanging around with like-minded people as much as the feeling of giving.

My friend did it to meet chickz.

 

[Tenk]

Do you think that these people will make it through their rotations or clinical years?

Probably.

 

[814965]

Adcom people demand volunteering so you gotta play the game to win, I guess. You can love it, hate it or think it's only for plebs, but at the end of the day your opinion is irrelevant because you need to do it to have a good chance of success. I never really enjoyed my volunteering, but I also didn't think it was "beneath" me. However, I personally don't think it should be a requirement or given much weight for the exact reasons people are complaining about. If anything, work experience should be given much more value - getting treated like a subhuman by abusive managers and customers in crappy service and manufacturing jobs was a much more humbling experience for me than my community service gig, and I got more out of it skill-wise too.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I’d say giving advice here on SDN and helping those interested in Medicine or other health professions would count as volunteering. I don’t think you get paid to be on here.

I appreciate the frank blunt truths (however harsh they may seem to snowflake premeds) you have provided over the years that my premed adviser didn’t have or give. You and all the adcom on here have really helped to give insight into the application process. One post from you is worth more than all the forced premed meetings we had to sit through with our premed advisors, attempting to sign up for bio classes. So, thank you and all the adcoms here.

Very little. However, I'm not going to spend my career in the service if others, you are. Not all patients are nice people, yet you're going to have to make LOTS of sacrifices for them. Hence, the requirements for service-type activities.

LizzyM as discussed her own volunteering in other posts.

Cone to think of it, I devote a lot of time advising pre-meds on how to get into med school, and med students on how to make it through their preclinical years

 

[3toedsloth]

However, I personally don't think it should be a requirement or given much weight for the exact reasons people are complaining about. If anything, work experience should be given much more value - getting treated like a subhuman by abusive managers and customers in crappy service and manufacturing jobs was a much more humbling experience for me than my community service gig, and I got more out of it skill-wise too.

I totally agree.

Volunteering for me was time to have fun—I did things I liked and was constantly thanked by everyone over and over.

Working in different jobs (non-trad here!) allowed me to gain more life experience and learn more about people than volunteering ever could.

 

[LizzyM]

waytoofoolish said: ↑
How much time have either of you spent volunteering this past year?

I posted back on 12/25/2013 and what I wrote still holds true today except that I've stopped serving Christmas dinner because it was too crowded with volunteers. I've put in about 100 hours per year for at least the last 35 years in different direct service activities. I'm not asking anyone do anything I would not do myself.

In certain volunteer activities you'll be manipulated, lied to, threatened, and come up against ungrateful people who are greedy or envious. You'll also meet people who need help because they've made bad choices. It has some parallels to some patient care situations.

 

[HomeSkool]

With respect to the people who do it as a resume enhancer, as always, The Onion nailed it years ago: https://www.theonion.com/soup-kitchen-volunteers-hate-college-application-paddin-1819566808

Thanks for the laugh! I hadn't read that one yet.

It makes me sad because many people who really need help are being exploited by apathetic volunteers.

Exploited? Please. Regardless of the volunteers' motivations, the ones they're helping are still getting help. The volunteers' apathy is their own problem.

How much time have either of you spent volunteering this past year?

I do anywhere from one to four hours of unpaid service each week with the average being two. (That's not counting extra unpaid time at work just because staying to take care of XYZ is the right thing to do.)

 

[Goro]

Adcom people demand volunteering so you gotta play the game to win, I guess. You can love it, hate it or think it's only for plebs, but at the end of the day your opinion is irrelevant because you need to do it to have a good chance of success. I never really enjoyed my volunteering, but I also didn't think it was "beneath" me. However, I personally don't think it should be a requirement or given much weight for the exact reasons people are complaining about. If anything, work experience should be given much more value - getting treated like a subhuman by abusive managers and customers in crappy service and manufacturing jobs was a much more humbling experience for me than my community service gig, and I got more out of it skill-wise too.

I 100% believe that a year of work experience should be a requirement to medical school!

 

[HomeSkool]

I 100% believe that a year of work experience should be a requirement to medical school!

I'll second that. It's a requirement for graduate-level business school, and for good reason!

 

[deleted480308]

I'll second that. It's a requirement for graduate-level business school, and for good reason!

For better or worse that is not universally the case

 

[HomeSkool]

For better or worse that is not universally the case

General rule of thumb, though. That requirement wasn't far from universal when I was applying to business school.

 

[HomeSkool]

No one would take Orgo or Physics if they weren't requirements either.

I disagree. I'm doing a physics minor and overloading my schedule to take courses that I'm interested in (humanities mostly) just for my personal enrichment

I don't think @Goro literally thinks that no one at all would do it. Citing an anecdotal exception (in this case, yourself) neither proves your point nor invalidates his.

And working up to 80 hours a week when you're a resident!

Or more. 80 hours is the maximum weekly average over a four-week period. In addition, the one-day-off-per-week thing is averaged over a four-week block. I worked 100+ hours multiple times as a resident, and my personal record (which I did more than once) was seventeen consecutive days without a day off and pulling 30-hour shifts every fourth day. In hindsight, it really sucked. (Actually, it sucked at the time, too.) As an intern on my general surgery rotations, I worked 5 am to 7 pm five days a week, leaving me with the minimum allowable 10 hours off-duty between shifts, and I took 24-hour call on a couple of the weekends (Saturdays, of course, so I could be post-call on Sunday and back to work on Monday). That also sucked.

Additionally, most physicians today have never volunteered in their lives.

Prove it. Using data. Anecdotes are worthless.

 

[chemdoctor]

I always marvel at the hypocrisy of volunteering in the premed context.
Like, as a volunteer you are supposed to be doing it from the goodness of your heart and expecting nothing in return. But no, you ARE there at least partly for your self interest.
It makes me sad because many people who really need help are being exploited by apathetic volunteers.

You may be right, but I highly doubt the people who "need help" truly care why someone is helping them. They're still getting additional help when they are in need regardless. People in pain don't care that the ambulance driver may be doing it for the money or because it's their job. The driver is helping them get to where they want/need to be in order to live a better life.

 

[chemdoctor]

The standard techniques of pre-med sociopaths (Volume I):

1. Pre-med signs in at hospital for volunteering; goes home; comes back to hospital to sign out -- does this every weekend for several semesters straight.
2. Pre-med signs up for 15 college clubs, runs for a leadership position in every one of them, and then abruptly stops attending all club meetings.
3. Pre-med pretends that he conducted 1000+ hours of groundbreaking research with professor... who's actually a family friend working in academia; family friend writes glowing letter about the student and his (fake) contributions.
4. Pre-med drastically inflates shadowing hours on application; physician that was being shadowed is family friend and vouches for him.
5. Pre-med hires a penniless English Literature PhD student to write beautiful essays for him about his fake volunteering and shadowing experiences.
6. Pre-med starts a small non-profit that's registered and has an admirable mission statement on its website, with photographs and testimonials... but, in reality, the non-profit was defunct from the moment of its inception.

(True stories. These individuals are now MS2s and MS3s at respectable medical schools.)

You really nailed it... I feel like crap now.