What do I have to do to become a Neurosurgeon?

[Blanco]

Hey, you people rock!!!// I have a few questions relating to medicine (DUH!) But before I ask them I will just say something briefly about me. I am in a community college completing the Nursing program. I will be graduating 2010 as a nurse with an associates degree. I have no pre meds. And I also have not done any research or any volunteer work. I am 21 years old and have a wife and a kid - Matthew 2 months / 2 weeks. Eversince I was 14 I was interested in the Human body ---ect......

I would like to know what are the steps into becoming a Neurosurgeon and Cardiovascularsurgeon ( Heart Surgeon )?

After a year of working as a Nurse I will be going back to school to get my B.S. degree. Of course I would be obataining my pre-meds but my major is still not writen-in-stone.
What B.S. degrees do surgeons earn? Can anyone / surgeon or med student/ tell me what B.S. degree they earned and why a B.S. in that field?


What major do you think or know could prepare me the best to A`s (ace) the MCAT/ and get into med school ?

What do you think prepared you the most for your MCAT? ( SORRY IF I AM OFF CONTEXT or going into a tangent )

What will in college and out of college prepare me the most on becoming a surgeon nevertheless a medstudent?



By the way I will be doing missionary work in the future as a surgeon / maybe as a neurosurgeon. I will be going to the Dominican Republic and other countries that would appreciate free surgery- not like the USA does not appreciate it but D.R. is my parents homeland. If the medical field for some reason were not to be an option for me I would go into Law and help the misrepresented and minorities.

Please respond with as much info as possible. Anyone can answer!!! -- Thanks

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[filter07]

To be a neurosurgeon you have to have nearly superhuman dedication, intelligence, and will. Anything short of 100% will prevent you from becoming a neurosurgeon. To be a neurosurgeon you have to put everything in your life second, and devote all of your energy to neurosurgery. You also have to prove to others that you are willing to do this. Right now you have not accomplished anything that remotely indicates your dedication to the field. Be real with yourself and get past the glory of being a neurosurgeon. If you are truly dedicated beyond all reason and absolutely nothing will stop you from your goal, you have a chance. Otherwise, don't even bother.

 

[smq123]

Hey, you people rock!!!// I have a few questions relating to medicine (DUH!) But before I ask them I will just say something briefly about me. I am in a community college completing the Nursing program. I will be graduating 2010 as a nurse with an associates degree. I have no pre meds. And I also have not done any research or any volunteer work. I am 21 years old and have a wife and a kid - Matthew 2 months / 2 weeks. Eversince I was 14 I was interested in the Human body ---ect......

This doesn't sound promising. If you want to be a doctor, you really need to make a plan. Can you afford to do this? When/how/where are you going to take the required classes? Is your wife supportive of this idea, or does she think that you're crazy?

I would like to know what are the steps into becoming a Neurosurgeon and Cardiovascularsurgeon ( Heart Surgeon )?

1) They're called "cardiothoracic" surgeons. (CT surgeons, for short.)

2) Becoming a neurosurgeon AND a CT surgeon would require over a decade of training...AFTER your 4 years of med school. I assume that you're going to choose one over the other.

CT surgery and neurosurgery are both very demanding careers. The surgeries are long, and the patients are very sick and need a lot of care. The training is extensive and takes many years and a lot of dedication. You should shadow CT surgeons and/or neurosurgeons to see if you have that kind of dedication.

After a year of working as a Nurse I will be going back to school to get my B.S. degree. Of course I would be obataining my pre-meds but my major is still not writen-in-stone.
What B.S. degrees do surgeons earn? Can anyone / surgeon or med student/ tell me what B.S. degree they earned and why a B.S. in that field?

What major do you think or know could prepare me the best to A`s (ace) the MCAT/ and get into med school ?

You don't have to major in pre-med.

I earned a BA. Didn't major in science. You don't have to major in science, but you do have to take certain required science classes in order to get into medical school.

Your major doesn't really give you an advantage in getting into medical school. Majoring in science doesn't help you get in, and majoring in history/english literature/art doesn't prevent you from getting in to medical school. The pre-allopathic forums are more helpful in this aspect.

What do you think prepared you the most for your MCAT? ( SORRY IF I AM OFF CONTEXT or going into a tangent )

Going to college is the first step to preparing for the MCAT. Studying chemistry, organic chemistry, biology, biochem, and english literature.

There is a pre-allopathic forum, and an MCAT forum. They offer more information.

What will in college and out of college prepare me the most on becoming a surgeon nevertheless a medstudent?

I have no clue what this means.

By the way I will be doing missionary work in the future as a surgeon / maybe as a neurosurgeon. I will be going to the Dominican Republic and other countries that would appreciate free surgery- not like the USA does not appreciate it but D.R. is my parents homeland. If the medical field for some reason were not to be an option for me I would go into Law and help the misrepresented and minorities.

Please respond with as much info as possible. Anyone can answer!!! -- Thanks

I think you're falling into the trap that a lot of pre-meds fall into - they're so preoccupied with the very far future, that they don't realize how many things they have to accomplish before reaching that future.

You need to take more classes in college. You need to get into medical school. You need to pass the preclinical courses, and do well on USMLE Step 1. You need to do well on your clinical rotations - and, you don't know, you actually might HATE surgery. Surgery is not as glamorous as it appears on TV.

Research more into whether or not medicine is a realistic option for you. Then, as filter07 said, if you have the dedication to it, and are willing to put in the (VERY) hard work that is required, then go for it.

 

[medicinesux]

give up your life

 

[Faebinder]

give up your life

medicinesux is not kiddin either... you must forget anything remotely human in your life.

 

[Flopotomist]

there is a (giant) forum where all your questions are answered - check it out. It is called the pre-allopathic forum. Start there.

 

[Blanco]

Surgeons must have a life besides doing surgery 70 hours a week. Not all comments were helpful--- "give up your life" (Medicinesux). If Medicinesux can explain more why I should be giving up my life it would be more helpful. By the way are any of you SURGEONS. Why dont you suckers tell me what you guys majored in ? or how did you guys study for your MCAT? OO let me see I will find the answer in the MCAT FORUM-- like i didnt know that! Can anyone still go over the steps of how to become a SURGEON!!!!!!!! YOu could start from medical school all the way up to Neurosurgeon....

 

[smq123]

Thanks all. Surgeons must have a life besides doing surgery 70 hours a week. Not all comments were helpful--- "give up your life" (Medicinesux). If Medicinesux can explain more why I should be giving up my life it would be more helpful. By the way are any of you SURGEONS. Why dont you suckers tell me what you guys majored in ? or how did you guys study for your MCAT? OO let me see I will find the answer in the MCAT FORUM-- like i didnt know that!

Thanks once again atleast a response.

• Rule #1 of every good medical student - don't ask questions about things that you can look up yourself.
  
  If you can look it up in the MCAT forum, then that's probably your best option. In any case, discussing about the "best" way to study for the MCAT would take too long.
  
  Furthermore, this is the RESIDENCY forum - most of the people on this forum took the MCAT > 3 years ago. We're really NOT the best people to ask for advice. I barely remember even taking the MCAT, although I obviously did. This is the place to discuss residency - not the MCAT.
  
  And if you knew about the MCAT forum...then why don't you read the advice that's posted there? Why ask people here for advice?
  
  
• If you want good advice, calling people "suckers" is HARDLY the best way to do that.

Thanks all. Surgeons must have a life besides doing surgery 70 hours a week.

Sure they do, but it's not necessarily much of one. You'll have more free time as a nurse than you will as a surgeon.

Surgeons DO have free time, but some specialties have more than others. Plastics and breast is not that bad. But you specifically mentioned CT and neurosurg, both of which are notorious for difficult lifestyles. The patients are extremely sick, and they need a lot of care. The risk of serious complications is very high. If you do neurosurg at a Level 1 trauma center, you will probably be the attending neurosurgeon on call for car accidents, GSWs, knife wounds, etc - which is very demanding. Do you know what it's like to have to do emergency surgery at 2:30 AM? Not a whole lot of fun, I can tell you. Considering that you already have a child, you should really think long and hard about the lifestyle in neurosurgery.

Why dont you suckers tell me what you guys majored in ?

Despite your extreme rudeness, I will attempt to answer your question. I majored in history, but also had to take the medical school required classes at the same time. It wasn't always easy to juggle that many classes per semester, but it got done.

Are you happy now?

 

[Blanco]

1. Are you out of your freaking mind. My situation makes everything taste better after all. You quote my brief statement and then say that it doesnt sound promising....what that i cant become a surgeon... I dont need promises I dont live in fantasy land.... Who the heck lives of from promises?

2. Can I afford to become a doctor? This is not even a question in my being or family`s mind. I was born to be a doctor. Ever heard of WORKING for money and paying school out of your pockets-investments-loans. Yeah of course I could afford to become a doctor - after all what do you think doctors are. The prestiege given to professionals is bulls... What I must be transformed into this classical musical ,majority, yes sir sucker? I recognize my capacities and weakness -- I become better and better everyday. Do you?

3. My wife is going to become a Doctor for your information.

Where do you think I was raised in some barn or shelter. Im from NYC I am not just an overachiever im a survivor. NYC CAPITAL OF THE WORLD WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im columibia university neighbor.

This doesn't sound promising. If you want to be a doctor, you really need to make a plan. Can you afford to do this? When/how/where are you going to take the required classes? Is your wife supportive of this idea, or does she think that you're crazy?



1) They're called "cardiothoracic" surgeons. (CT surgeons, for short.)

2) Becoming a neurosurgeon AND a CT surgeon would require over a decade of training...AFTER your 4 years of med school. I assume that you're going to choose one over the other.

CT surgery and neurosurgery are both very demanding careers. The surgeries are long, and the patients are very sick and need a lot of care. The training is extensive and takes many years and a lot of dedication. You should shadow CT surgeons and/or neurosurgeons to see if you have that kind of dedication.



You don't have to major in pre-med.

I earned a BA. Didn't major in science. You don't have to major in science, but you do have to take certain required science classes in order to get into medical school.

Your major doesn't really give you an advantage in getting into medical school. Majoring in science doesn't help you get in, and majoring in history/english literature/art doesn't prevent you from getting in to medical school. The pre-allopathic forums are more helpful in this aspect.



Going to college is the first step to preparing for the MCAT. Studying chemistry, organic chemistry, biology, biochem, and english literature.

There is a pre-allopathic forum, and an MCAT forum. They offer more information.



I have no clue what this means.



I think you're falling into the trap that a lot of pre-meds fall into - they're so preoccupied with the very far future, that they don't realize how many things they have to accomplish before reaching that future.

You need to take more classes in college. You need to get into medical school. You need to pass the preclinical courses, and do well on USMLE Step 1. You need to do well on your clinical rotations - and, you don't know, you actually might HATE surgery. Surgery is not as glamorous as it appears on TV.

Research more into whether or not medicine is a realistic option for you. Then, as filter07 said, if you have the dedication to it, and are willing to put in the (VERY) hard work that is required, then go for it.

 

[Blanco]

Lady I dont need your rules.... If I dont know something I will look it up or ask a quesiton if you dont like it get of this thread.... THis is a blog.. It is not like I am some lazy kid asking about medical professions..I am doing Research here...ANd for your info I do look up things for my self. Excuse me your the RUDE one..!!!!

I cannot believe this!!

• Rule #1 of every good medical student - don't ask questions about things that you can look up yourself.
  
  If you can look it up in the MCAT forum, then that's probably your best option. In any case, discussing about the "best" way to study for the MCAT would take too long.
  
  Furthermore, this is the RESIDENCY forum - most of the people on this forum took the MCAT > 3 years ago. We're really NOT the best people to ask for advice. I barely remember even taking the MCAT, although I obviously did. This is the place to discuss residency - not the MCAT.
  
  And if you knew about the MCAT forum...then why don't you read the advice that's posted there? Why ask people here for advice?
• If you want good advice, calling people "suckers" is HARDLY the best way to do that.

Sure they do, but it's not necessarily much of one. You'll have more free time as a nurse than you will as a surgeon.

Surgeons DO have free time, but some specialties have more than others. Plastics and breast is not that bad. But you specifically mentioned CT and neurosurg, both of which are notorious for difficult lifestyles. The patients are extremely sick, and they need a lot of care. The risk of serious complications is very high. If you do neurosurg at a Level 1 trauma center, you will probably be the attending neurosurgeon on call for car accidents, GSWs, knife wounds, etc - which is very demanding. Do you know what it's like to have to do emergency surgery at 2:30 AM? Not a whole lot of fun, I can tell you. Considering that you already have a child, you should really think long and hard about the lifestyle in neurosurgery.



Despite your extreme rudeness, I will attempt to answer your question. I majored in history, but also had to take the medical school required classes at the same time. It wasn't always easy to juggle that many classes per semester, but it got done.

Are you happy now?

 

[smq123]

Hey, you people rock!!!

By the way are any of you SURGEONS. Why dont you suckers tell me what you guys majored in ? or how did you guys study for your MCAT?

The phrase "cluster B" is starting to come to mind....

THis is a blog..

Ummm...no it's not... It's a forum. A blog is different.

It is not like I am some lazy kid asking about medical professions..I am doing Research here...ANd for your info I do look up things for my self.

No, let me explain. "Research" means that you're independently finding information that is readiliy available from other sources. What you're doing here is just asking questions about medical professions. There's a difference.

And that's great that you look things up for yourself - but there's not a whole lot of evidence of that so far...

AND LIKE I SAID - this is not a good place to ask for advice about the MCAT. Do you realize that all of us took the MCAT so long ago, it was still a paper exam? None of us have taken the computerized MCAT. I don't even know if they still have the same number of questions. I took the MCAT FOUR years ago - do you honestly think that I'm the best person to ask for MCAT advice? Why don't you ask someone who took the MCAT recently?

 

[Blanco]

I think that by asking people that are going to become surgeons or are surgeons about majors and MCATS and all that other stuff I asked woudl be great. If it is too long to answer then just dont ---- How hard is to type a couple of thousand words-- not considering your level of potential at the moment( prob. came out of work ) But dont reject me and send me to some forum like if I was a little kid. COme on I am looking forward into building a plan I am doing so now 6 years before applying to med school..... Helooo BY the way I do appreciate all the responses but dont accept them all

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks all. Surgeons must have a life besides doing surgery 70 hours a week. Not all comments were helpful--- "give up your life" (Medicinesux). If Medicinesux can explain more why I should be giving up my life it would be more helpful. By the way are any of you SURGEONS. Why dont you suckers tell me what you guys majored in ? or how did you guys study for your MCAT? OO let me see I will find the answer in the MCAT FORUM-- like i didnt know that!

Thanks once again atleast a response.

OK, I'll bite.

To successfully become a Neurosurgeon or CT Surgeon, or any type of medical practitioner, you must give up some of the live you currently enjoy. In some fields, like Nsgy and CTS, you must give up much more of that life.

Most Neurosurgeons and CTS work more than 70 hours per week, even as attendings. Those hours are filled with incredibly ill patients, long call nights and declining reimbursement. Neurosurgery residencies are one of the few that can apply for and get exemption from the 80 hr/week residency training requirements; working their residents up to 88 hrs/week.

After your 88 hrs/week (let's forget for the moment that many programs violate the regulations and work their residents longer), you'll have to spend time in the library or at home studying.

When you work twice as much as the average American, there is no way you can have the same type of life. You will have to accept that there are certain realities of medical and surgical training and that much of it requires a dedication to the work at a level you have yet to experience. Calling in sick? You can't. Missing your son's school play because you're on call? Quite possibly. Forgetting your wife's birthday because you were tired? Sure. Promising her that you'll be home at 7 pm only to find yourself arriving home after 10 pm? It will happen.

Therefore, you and your family have to accept these and find a way to deal with them and because it does involve changing what you currently envision as a "life", you'll lose some of it, the sooner the better. It sounds callous to say "give up your life", but honestly there is an element of truth in that. You cannot possibly be a neurosurgery resident, CTS fellow or attending on those fields and spend as much time with your family or friends, in the gym, participating in hobbies, as you do now.

As for majors you've already been told that it doesn't matter what you major in in college. People from all different fields have gotten into medical school and there is no difference in getting into medical school...so major in what you are interested in. I majored in Psych with a minor in Math.

Your question about the MCAT is confusing. You want for attending surgeons to answer your question, but neglect to realize that for most of us the MCAT was 10+ years ago. I have no idea what I used to study, what the exam covered and honestly don't even remember my exact scores. You would be much better advised to check the MCAT forums and see what people who have taken the exam in the least decade have to recommend.

Other questions:

1) Steps to becoming a Neurosurgeon:
- undergraduate degree in anything you want along with pre-med courses
- medical school (4 years)
- neurosurgery residency (6 years)
- possible fellowship (1-3 years)

2) Steps to becoming a CT Surgeon:
- undergraduate degree
- medical school (4 years)
- general surgery residency (5-7+ years)
- CT Surgery fellowship (2+ years)
- CT Surg super-fellow/subspecialty (1-2 years)

There is a fairly small market for missionary work in these fields, although they do exist. Often the problem is that the countries, like DR, do not have the infrastructure or resources to provide after care that Nsgy or CTS patients need (esp. the former). There is a larger need for general surgeons and PRS in underserved populations.

I understand that you found the earlier responses unhelpful but they were honestly trying to get you to understand that what you are proposing is an extremely difficult route...one that many may attempt, but few succeed in. It is akin to the teenager playing air guitar who someday dreams of being a rock star. He might make it, but in most cases, he will not. Same goes for college students dreaming of being neuro or CT surgeons. Almost all of the kids you will be pre-med with will fail or quit for one reason or another. Therefore, the cynicism above is well justified, even if it means you don't want to hear it.

Hope this helps...

 

[Blanco]

Ok, so you feel like you arent a good source after all. SO why did you bother to answer and give your snooty opinions. By the way medical student research means to search all over again and again and for your information, let me give other definitions according to dictionary.com.
re-search

/riˈsɜrtʃ/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ree-surch]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation–verb (used with object), verb (used without object) to search or search for again.
[Origin: 1740–50; re- + search

]


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re·search

/rɪˈsɜrtʃ, ˈri

sɜrtʃ/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-surch, ree-surch]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation–noun 1.diligent and systematic inquiry or investigation into a subject in order to discover or revise facts, theories, applications, etc.: recent research in medicine. 2.a particular instance or piece of research. –verb (used without object) 3.to make researches; investigate carefully. –verb (used with object) 4.to make an extensive investigation into: to research a matter thoroughly.


MY POINT IS THAT YOU MADE UP YOUR DEFINITION OF THE WORD RESEARCH and you were WRONG!!!

#2
What you're doing here is just asking questions about medical professions.
Answer: DUHHHH THat is what I said from the beginning.. THat I will I am researching on what majors surgeons did for their Bachelours.

The phrase "cluster B" is starting to come to mind....



Ummm...no it's not... It's a forum. A blog is different.



No, let me explain. "Research" means that you're independently finding information that is readiliy available from other sources. What you're doing here is just asking questions about medical professions. There's a difference.

And that's great that you look things up for yourself - but there's not a whole lot of evidence of that so far...

AND LIKE I SAID - this is not a good place to ask for advice about the MCAT. Do you realize that all of us took the MCAT so long ago, it was still a paper exam? None of us have taken the computerized MCAT. I don't even know if they still have the same number of questions. I took the MCAT FOUR years ago - do you honestly think that I'm the best person to ask for MCAT advice?

 

[Blanco]

Omg thanks that was nice and encouraging. I noticed I really donthave much hobbies all I do is study and tutor. On my free time all I do is chill with the family- videotaping my fam. and listening and speaking about the future with my wife ( future doc as well )

THanks

OK, I'll bite.

To successfully become a Neurosurgeon or CT Surgeon, or any type of medical practitioner, you must give up some of the live you currently enjoy. In some fields, like Nsgy and CTS, you must give up much more of that life.

Most Neurosurgeons and CTS work more than 70 hours per week, even as attendings. Those hours are filled with incredibly ill patients, long call nights and declining reimbursement. Neurosurgery residencies are one of the few that can apply for and get exemption from the 80 hr/week residency training requirements; working their residents up to 88 hrs/week.

After your 88 hrs/week (let's forget for the moment that many programs violate the regulations and work their residents longer), you'll have to spend time in the library or at home studying.

When you work twice as much as the average American, there is no way you can have the same type of life. You will have to accept that there are certain realities of medical and surgical training and that much of it requires a dedication to the work at a level you have yet to experience. Calling in sick? You can't. Missing your son's school play because you're on call? Quite possibly. Forgetting your wife's birthday because you were tired? Sure. Promising her that you'll be home at 7 pm only to find yourself arriving home after 10 pm? It will happen.

Therefore, you and your family have to accept these and find a way to deal with them and because it does involve changing what you currently envision as a "life", you'll lose some of it, the sooner the better. It sounds callous to say "give up your life", but honestly there is an element of truth in that. You cannot possibly be a neurosurgery resident, CTS fellow or attending on those fields and spend as much time with your family or friends, in the gym, participating in hobbies, as you do now.

As for majors you've already been told that it doesn't matter what you major in in college. People from all different fields have gotten into medical school and there is no difference in getting into medical school...so major in what you are interested in. I majored in Psych with a minor in Math.

Your question about the MCAT is confusing. You want for attending surgeons to answer your question, but neglect to realize that for most of us the MCAT was 10+ years ago. I have no idea what I used to study, what the exam covered and honestly don't even remember my exact scores. You would be much better advised to check the MCAT forums and see what people who have taken the exam in the least decade have to recommend.

Other questions:

1) Steps to becoming a Neurosurgeon:
- undergraduate degree in anything you want along with pre-med courses
- medical school (4 years)
- neurosurgery residency (6 years)
- possible fellowship (1-3 years)

2) Steps to becoming a CT Surgeon:
- undergraduate degree
- medical school (4 years)
- general surgery residency (5-7+ years)
- CT Surgery fellowship (2+ years)
- CT Surg super-fellow/subspecialty (1-2 years)

There is a fairly small market for missionary work in these fields, although they do exist. Often the problem is that the countries, like DR, do not have the infrastructure or resources to provide after care that Nsgy or CTS patients need (esp. the former). There is a larger need for general surgeons and PRS in underserved populations.

I understand that you found the earlier responses unhelpful but they were honestly trying to get you to understand that what you are proposing is an extremely difficult route...one that many may attempt, but few succeed in. It is akin to the teenager playing air guitar who someday dreams of being a rock star. He might make it, but in most cases, he will not. Same goes for college students dreaming of being neuro or CT surgeons. Almost all of the kids you will be pre-med with will fail or quit for one reason or another. Therefore, the cynicism above is well justified, even if it means you don't want to hear it.

Hope this helps...

 

[Blanco]

Hey on the #1 you said possible fellowship -- what do you mean by possible and what is a fellowship - If you could please answer. Thanks for the ins on missionary work. SO what can someone do to make it more possible for surgeons to go out there and do some free work ? If you have any ideas or anyone else please feel free to state your opinions -- but watchout I might bite

OK, I'll bite.

To successfully become a Neurosurgeon or CT Surgeon, or any type of medical practitioner, you must give up some of the live you currently enjoy. In some fields, like Nsgy and CTS, you must give up much more of that life.

Most Neurosurgeons and CTS work more than 70 hours per week, even as attendings. Those hours are filled with incredibly ill patients, long call nights and declining reimbursement. Neurosurgery residencies are one of the few that can apply for and get exemption from the 80 hr/week residency training requirements; working their residents up to 88 hrs/week.

After your 88 hrs/week (let's forget for the moment that many programs violate the regulations and work their residents longer), you'll have to spend time in the library or at home studying.

When you work twice as much as the average American, there is no way you can have the same type of life. You will have to accept that there are certain realities of medical and surgical training and that much of it requires a dedication to the work at a level you have yet to experience. Calling in sick? You can't. Missing your son's school play because you're on call? Quite possibly. Forgetting your wife's birthday because you were tired? Sure. Promising her that you'll be home at 7 pm only to find yourself arriving home after 10 pm? It will happen.

Therefore, you and your family have to accept these and find a way to deal with them and because it does involve changing what you currently envision as a "life", you'll lose some of it, the sooner the better. It sounds callous to say "give up your life", but honestly there is an element of truth in that. You cannot possibly be a neurosurgery resident, CTS fellow or attending on those fields and spend as much time with your family or friends, in the gym, participating in hobbies, as you do now.

As for majors you've already been told that it doesn't matter what you major in in college. People from all different fields have gotten into medical school and there is no difference in getting into medical school...so major in what you are interested in. I majored in Psych with a minor in Math.

Your question about the MCAT is confusing. You want for attending surgeons to answer your question, but neglect to realize that for most of us the MCAT was 10+ years ago. I have no idea what I used to study, what the exam covered and honestly don't even remember my exact scores. You would be much better advised to check the MCAT forums and see what people who have taken the exam in the least decade have to recommend.

Other questions:

1) Steps to becoming a Neurosurgeon:
- undergraduate degree in anything you want along with pre-med courses
- medical school (4 years)
- neurosurgery residency (6 years)
- possible fellowship (1-3 years)

2) Steps to becoming a CT Surgeon:
- undergraduate degree
- medical school (4 years)
- general surgery residency (5-7+ years)
- CT Surgery fellowship (2+ years)
- CT Surg super-fellow/subspecialty (1-2 years)

There is a fairly small market for missionary work in these fields, although they do exist. Often the problem is that the countries, like DR, do not have the infrastructure or resources to provide after care that Nsgy or CTS patients need (esp. the former). There is a larger need for general surgeons and PRS in underserved populations.

I understand that you found the earlier responses unhelpful but they were honestly trying to get you to understand that what you are proposing is an extremely difficult route...one that many may attempt, but few succeed in. It is akin to the teenager playing air guitar who someday dreams of being a rock star. He might make it, but in most cases, he will not. Same goes for college students dreaming of being neuro or CT surgeons. Almost all of the kids you will be pre-med with will fail or quit for one reason or another. Therefore, the cynicism above is well justified, even if it means you don't want to hear it.

Hope this helps...

 

[VALSALVA]

Kimberli gets the silver star for her post...especially after the dick post afterwords.

Blanco: you're showing your true colors and generally treating other posters on this thread quite shabbily. Like Kimberli said, the above posters were REALLY trying to help you out.

I am not a neuro or CT surgeon, but work with them daily as an EM resident. I respect these surgeons so much for their time spent training, dedication and passion for surgery and medicine. They really have very little life outside of the hospital and God knows we need men and women with that kind of dedication - it's rare!

Good luck with college.

p.s. If I were you, I'd drop out of the nursing program, and begin taking pre-med pre-reqs and other courses towards a bachelors. Forget nursing if you gunning for medicine - it makes no sense for a person in your position.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Hey on the #1 you said possible fellowship -- what do you mean by possible and what is a fellowship - If you could please answer.

A fellowship is an additional period of medical training after the primary residency in order to superspecialize. For example, if as a Neurosurgeon you wanted to focus on Spine Surgery, you would do a Spine fellowship after your Neurosurgery fellowship.

CT Surgery is a fellowship after General Surgery residency; you can then further superspecialize in Pediatric CT Surgery by doing additional training.

Thus, the reason I used the term "possible" when discussing the length of training is that a fellowship is not necessarily required unless you choose an area of super specialty.

Thanks for the ins on missionary work. SO what can someone do to make it more possible for surgeons to go out there and do some free work ? If you have any ideas or anyone else please feel free to state your opinions -- but watchout I might bite

There's plenty of work for general and plastic surgeons, as I noted. Because the hospitals do not have the resources in the way of equipment and trained personnel, it becomes difficult to do things like neurosurgical procedures in an underdeveloped country like DR. Most mission trips that utilize surgeons do so for mild craniofacial defects (like cleft lip and palate), thyroid disease, etc. There just isn't the resources available to take care of your patient after neurosurgery or more advanced CT surgery procedures.

If you are employed at a large institution in the US, you may find that there are resources for trips to treat pediatric CT surgery problems or minor Neurosurgery issues (ie, kids needing shunts). More difficult cases are probably better off being brought to the US and treated here, only returning home when able to function without the intensive care not available at home. You can also do this work pro bono. Some physicians take time off every few years and donate a few months to charity organizations, but this is difficult to do for many reasons.

 

[Blanco]

Could anyone evolve into a more indepth explanation of med school starting from the first year to the last.

Then go into resedency and fellowship in the same way.
\
Mention exams courses, experiences and advice!!!

THanks Dr. COx did a great job though

 

[smq123]

Ok, so you feel like you arent a good source after all. SO why did you bother to answer and give your snooty opinions.

I specifically said from the beginning that this was not a good place to ask for MCAT advice. The only thing I remember about taking the MCAT was giving them a fingerprint when I registered for the test.

Honesty does not = "snooty" in this case. It makes sense to ask for MCAT advice from people who took it within the past year. Those people are not yet residents, and are unlikely to post in the "general residency" forum - they're more likely to be found in the MCAT forum.

Hey on the #1 you said possible fellowship -- what do you mean by possible and what is a fellowship - If you could please answer.

A fellowship is a period of training after your residency where you learn specialized skills. Fellowships are optional - you don't have to do them, unless you're interested. So it's possible that you'll do a fellowship after residency, but not everyone does.

 

[Ypo.]

Obviously this guy is not smart enough to get into neurosurgery. He can't even use the search function.

 

[Blanco]

Hey butt face dont call me a dick. By the way do you have a family - wife and kid that depends from you in NYC at age 21..everything is so expensive out here... Im already in the nursing prog.. If I were to leave the prog. I would be doing the worst thing ever. Out here is 75 K full time with a better lifestyle then a surgeon -- as what I see so far through these "Forums". With this money I am going to medical school-save invest and flip. PLus the experience and the network should be priceless. I am in no rush into becoming a Neurosurgeon -- I expect to be in school for the next 20 years of my life.. I see it like this is either 20 years in jail or 20 years in school. My wife sees it the same -- its awesome !!!!!

Kimberli gets the silver star for her post...especially after the dick post afterwords.

Blanco: you're showing your true colors and generally treating other posters on this thread quite shabbily. Like Kimberli said, the above posters were REALLY trying to help you out.

I am not a neuro or CT surgeon, but work with them daily as an EM resident. I respect these surgeons so much for their time spent training, dedication and passion for surgery and medicine. They really have very little life outside of the hospital and God knows we need men and women with that kind of dedication - it's rare!

Good luck with college.

p.s. If I were you, I'd drop out of the nursing program, and begin taking pre-med pre-reqs and other courses towards a bachelors. Forget nursing if you gunning for medicine - it makes no sense for a person in your position.

 

[Blanco]

ARe you serious -- measuring my smarts with the way I use the search function.... Looooser get a life!!!

Obviously this guy is not smart enough to get into neurosurgery. He can't even use the search function.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Users are reminded to refrain from personal attacks and name calling and to behave professionally in the moderated forums.

Further such behavior, from any user in this thread, will result in the participants receiving administrative action against their accounts and the thread being closed.

 

[m1234d]

There is a neurosurgery forum towards the bottom of the forum list. Perhaps posting there as well will provide you with some answers to your questions.

 

[raidenxp2005]

Blanco,

Neurosurgery is hard....surgery is hard....if your wife wants to be a doctor and so do u..... it might be hard to hold that marriage...... the so called 80hr per week work time is a myth....I know !!...I know alot of ppl in residencies complaining about it....it's more than 80!!!

CT surgery is somewhat of a dying profession and residents are scared due to low job opportunities

All the neurosurgeons I know of have families and are divorced at least once or they aren't married at all

But at least u'll be rich unless u have to pay matrimony....

I have a nurse friend and he found it hard to do the boards and work and run home to look after his 2 year old son....his wife is a dentist...i think he dropped out of medical school because he used to fall asleep in class alot

U should shadow someone to know exactly how this surgery thing works..maybe u should try for something less demanding....like Family Medicine or Internal Medicine

Please we are only looking out for you ...u have a job and a family....it's hard and u can run the risk of loosing your family over being a miserable surgeon.....please research and talk to ppl in the field u want before jumping into surgery of any kind

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

What do you need to do to be a neurosurgeon? Stop calling people "losers" and "suckers" use language that makes you sound older than a teenager. Talking to peers in a mature manner is step one in ANY discipline. I realize some people have spoken negatively to you, but that is no reason to give "tit for tat".

I do wonder, with your wife going to medical school, and you going to medical school/becoming a neurosurgeon...who is going to take care of your kid? Seriously, consider the impact this will have. Even if you "go first" while your wife stays with him, or vice versa...realize how much of a seperation there will be between you and your son while you do this.

Neurosurgery is an insanely intense field. All veterinary neuroscience/neurosurgery residents and specialists I have met work ungodly hours and have had to basically dedicate their life to the field in terms of endless education/residencies/etc. Forget having a "normal" social and family life.

I imagine it is significantly more intense/worse for human neurosurgeons.

I know this sounds negative, and is not what you want to hear, but it is a concept you simply cannot hear enough. It is not meant to discourage you, but to keep you realistic so you can tailor your desires and goals around what is best for you at this point in your life.

You also will be earning no money in while in med school (in fact, it will cost anywhere from 100K to 300K to go). You may be able to swing a small part-time job but that is absolutely it. Med school takes over your life. 8:00am-5pm classes, plus homework and studying. Can your family survive on your wife's salary alone? You realize most residencies don't pay much more than 30-40 K? Financially it is a huuuuuuge committment.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

I feel weird posting as a med student in a resident forum to Premed issues, but here goes.

1) I would like to know what are the steps into becoming a Neurosurgeon and Cardiovascularsurgeon ( Heart Surgeon )?

From where you are now, you will need to complete a bachelor degree as well as the general med school prereqs. You will also be requird to take the MCAT and do well. You will apply (and hopefully be accepted) to a medical school.

Med school will take four years, first is usually basic science, second usually pathology based, third and fourth are clinical clerkships. You may have to deal with a large exam known as Step 1 between second and third year, but the National Board of Medical Examiners may have modified this by the time you would reach this point. Regardless, any type of surgery is very competitive so you'll have to perform well in medical school. You will likely find your time severely limited with your family and will not hold a job at this point.

After medical school, you "match" into a residency and here's where the path diverges. During residency, you are a "doctor" but you are working under a superior to learn the skill so you can be independent in the future. You make a livable wage. You can either match into a seven year (typically) Neurosurgery program if you want neurosurgery, or a surgery residency and then a CV fellowship (different programs break up how you do this, but it will be several years again). After this you are an attending physician and able to work how you choose and get the big bucks.

Be aware that surgery residencies are perhaps the most time consuming of all, especially neurosurgery. You will violate the 80 hour work rule more often than not. This will place a tremendous stress on your personal life.

2)What B.S. degrees do surgeons earn? Can anyone / surgeon or med student/ tell me what B.S. degree they earned and why a B.S. in that field?

Typically, whatever degree gets you into medical school is sufficient (which is basically any degree, any major). The best advice is to do whatever you enjoy and are confident you can maintain a high GPA in as this ensures entry into medical school.

3) What major do you think or know could prepare me the best to A`s (ace) the MCAT/ and get into med school ?

Any major will get you into medical school (see above) and fulfilling premed requirements should give you a basic coverage of MCAT topics (biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, ec.), which you flesh out with MCAT review books/courses etc. I think you tend to get better grades at what you enjoy, so do that.

4) What do you think prepared you the most for your MCAT? ( SORRY IF I AM OFF CONTEXT or going into a tangent )

Undergrad course work, self study, and practice tests.

5) What will in college and out of college prepare me the most on becoming a surgeon nevertheless a medstudent?

The times where you have to make the choice between doing what's fun and what's required. Any time you miss a night out with your wife or playing with your child because you absolutely have to study for a test or get a project done, think about that moment and realize that a medical path is going to increase both the frequency and duration of times where you have to put your career before other important things in life.

 

[blotto geltaco]

I find it hard to believe that people are actually wasting the time to post worthwhile responses to the OP. I just lost 2 minutes of my life reading this thread that I can never get back. This thread gets my nomination for top 10 most ******ed in the history of SDN.

 

[3dtp]

In case you are wondering about this "80 hour" week, I think its important that you clearly understand what it means.

Prior to the 80 hour week, which others have pointed out is routinely violated, residents frequently worked much more than that, up to 110 hours a week.

Even with it, you will be in the hospital a minimum of 6 days a week as a resident, occasionally much more than that. Your day will begin very early in the morning, surgical specialty residents frequently begin their day before 5 and end it late in the evening. Every third or fourth day, you start your day at 5-6 AM and end it the following day at noon or later. You do not sleep during this time, you do not rest during this time, if you are lucky, you may have time to eat and use the bathroom, but only if you are lucky.

This is the lifestyle people are warning you about. If you do a fellowship, assuming you make it that far, there are no work hour limits and as a fellow, you can expect to live in the hospital. A surgeon I know once took a plane ride to San Francisco to spend four hours with his wife who was flying to SFO for a meeting. He never left the airport, but got on the next plane home and went back to work. He told me that was the only way he could spend quality time with her.

Understand the lifestyle you are embarking on, before you buy the ticket.

 

[Tired]

With this money I am going to medical school-save invest and flip.

Here's what everyone wants to say to you, but is too "nice" to just come out with:

If you're 21, still in CC for a nursing degree, you're way behind the curve and you've barely scratched the surface. Further, the way you post tells us that you're probably not one of the uber-intelligent people in your classes, even amongst the nursing students. Neurosurgeons possess a mind that is awe-inspiring, even to other physicians. It is unlikely that you would get neurosurg even if you managed to get into med school.

Give up the medicine route, do something valuable with your life, and enjoy your time with your family. This isn't for you. You don't want to waste half your life pursuing a field that you're not just cut out for.

 

[Faebinder]

Med School: 2 years of painfully large volumes of information for you two swallow... then 2 years of being the bottom of a group, from mini things like fetching coffee to holding a baby's head while traveling to the OR for a C-section.. and of course painfully large volumes of information but this time you must feed it to yourself. Each month in med school you got through anywhere from 5 to 10 tests.. failing any of those could mean the end of your career. Scoring low between those thousands of people taking those exams? Forget about your dreams of NS and CTS. So you are put on the spot over and over and over again multiple times a month.

Residency/Fellowship: 5 years for GS and 7 years for NS. You are it. Hours 80-90 a week leaving you 88 to do the 5 essentials of life (Poop, Eat, Shower, Sleep, Make babies). If you factor sleep 6 hrs a day (lets say you eat on the run) then that leaves you 46 hours to study for inservice or boards or do research, dictate discharge summaries or OP reports, see a movie, take your girl out, drive to work (oh yeah we dont count driving in those 88 hours) and something like being on the phone for an hour to fix a bill issue. Oh and those 46 hours occasionally carry a pager which can go off and wake you up. With NS, you are it! It's either you or the other fellows/resident on call... as an attending you are DEFINITELY it. Many operations take 7-9 hours and adding another surgery for the day can pretty much mean you are not going home on time. You practically have no time to spare or spend with wife/kids.. much less your family. Worse.. you need to study.. yes your ass needs to read till you vomit knowledge. You fail any inservice or boards or f$$k up a patient cause your ass is not so familiar with one or two diseases and it's your ass on the chopping board and be prepared to lose your residency/fellowship.

Finally... Please ban Blanco.. a troll shouldnt waste so much of so many people's lives.

 

[Blanco]

WHY ? People here are helping me out. This is about my questions and if you had read them you would have not continued to "waste your time".

I find it hard to believe that people are actually wasting the time to post worthwhile responses to the OP. I just lost 2 minutes of my life reading this thread that I can never get back. This thread gets my nomination for top 10 most ******ed in the history of SDN.

 

[Blanco]

Dude Im a 3.6 // 57.5 credits.. Im in honors and deans list Im top 3 % of allmy classes my lowest grade is a B and I only have like 4 B's. Maybe my writing and english aint that great but my capacity to learn and dedication plus my desire to learn overcomes alot of stuff. I am willing to give up time with family, social life = dont have one, and sleep. I will adapt to my enviorment to be the best at what I do. I dont see me the way you do... Overall I am unstopable as much as corny as it sounds... I have everything I need-- 6 years before i start med school, supporting family and realistic goals plus the desires to become a surgeon that places me in the OR performing surgery in my dreams. OVERALL I AM SELFISH!!! AND I WILL GET WHAT I WANT.

As a nurse I am actually going to be making enough money to invest,earn credit for loans, live more comfortly, and built a great network. HAAAAAA

Here's what everyone wants to say to you, but is too "nice" to just come out with:

If you're 21, still in CC for a nursing degree, you're way behind the curve and you've barely scratched the surface. Further, the way you post tells us that you're probably not one of the uber-intelligent people in your classes, even amongst the nursing students. Neurosurgeons possess a mind that is awe-inspiring, even to other physicians. It is unlikely that you would get neurosurg even if you managed to get into med school.

Give up the medicine route, do something valuable with your life, and enjoy your time with your family. This isn't for you. You don't want to waste half your life pursuing a field that you're not just cut out for.

 

[Tired]

OVERALL I AM SELFISH!!! AND I WILL GET WHAT I WANT.

Personally, I think it's unlikely, but whatever.

Good luck.

 

[Blanco]

Thanks for the post .... THats what I love , to study and actually have to use the knowledge I have spend time learning.

Med School: 2 years of painfully large volumes of information for you two swallow... then 2 years of being the bottom of a group, from mini things like fetching coffee to holding a baby's head while traveling to the OR for a C-section.. and of course painfully large volumes of information but this time you must feed it to yourself. Each month in med school you got through anywhere from 5 to 10 tests.. failing any of those could mean the end of your career. Scoring low between those thousands of people taking those exams? Forget about your dreams of NS and CTS. So you are put on the spot over and over and over again multiple times a month.

Residency/Fellowship: 5 years for GS and 7 years for NS. You are it. Hours 80-90 a week leaving you 88 to do the 5 essentials of life (Poop, Eat, Shower, Sleep, Make babies). If you factor sleep 6 hrs a day (lets say you eat on the run) then that leaves you 46 hours to study for inservice or boards or do research, dictate discharge summaries or OP reports, see a movie, take your girl out, drive to work (oh yeah we dont count driving in those 88 hours) and something like being on the phone for an hour to fix a bill issue. Oh and those 46 hours occasionally carry a pager which can go off and wake you up. With NS, you are it! It's either you or the other fellows/resident on call... as an attending you are DEFINITELY it. Many operations take 7-9 hours and adding another surgery for the day can pretty much mean you are not going home on time. You practically have no time to spare or spend with wife/kids.. much less your family. Worse.. you need to study.. yes your ass needs to read till you vomit knowledge. You fail any inservice or boards or f$$k up a patient cause your ass is not so familiar with one or two diseases and it's your ass on the chopping board and be prepared to lose your residency/fellowship.

Finally... Please ban Blanco.. a troll shouldnt waste so much of so many people's lives.

 

[Blanco]

Dude I am squeezing the juice out of you..... with out having a gun to the head. What is wrong with you,, why do you want to ban me it is not my fault you are reading my thread...hellooo arent you grown enough to decide wether to read or not to read this blog. F Off , you hater. Why are you so mad ? Thanks for all the info anyways, once again the word looser should be used /// LOOOSER

Finally... Please ban Blanco.. a troll shouldnt waste so much of so many people's lives.

 

[Blanco]

It is scary that you are a doctor.


Here's what everyone wants to say to you, but is too "nice" to just come out with:

If you're 21, still in CC for a nursing degree, you're way behind the curve and you've barely scratched the surface. Further, the way you post tells us that you're probably not one of the uber-intelligent people in your classes, even amongst the nursing students. Neurosurgeons possess a mind that is awe-inspiring, even to other physicians. It is unlikely that you would get neurosurg even if you managed to get into med school.

Give up the medicine route, do something valuable with your life, and enjoy your time with your family. This isn't for you.

This isnt for me -- You dont know that, you young docs hate it when people are trying to get info to become whatever it is you want to be,, the competition really gets to you. "GIve up the medicine route, do somethign more valuable with my life" No one here is in power to tell me what to do. I swear that I think that I am going to f up alot of doctors in my career. Isnt medicine the most valuable thing to you-- since you in the field? I guess I value it more than you-- you have the balls to make medicine sound like the least valueble profession in life... I think opposite... But if you ask me what Ithink of people like you -- that tell other to give up on there dreams then I will just say you shoud had not been a doctor- dick head!


You don't want to waste half your life pursuing a field that you're not just cut out for.

Man read what it says under blanco ---- BORN TO BE A DOCTOR.

BY the way does anyone know anything about Ramon Quinones-- John Hopkins surgery prof... came to the US without papers ( Mexican ) and without knowing english. EVentually he rejected the things people like you said to me and things his family members said to him. Now he is in a position most of us desires. You could never assume the outcome of a person situation. OR dont judge a book by its cover!!!

 

[Blanco]

When I become a sugeon my life is going to be seen very diff from yours... I would be like a hero to my people... inspire others to search and find there dreams. People love some one diff. and i am defitnely diff.my struggles will sale my story - books by themselves. Marketing is a inborn thing for my people.

It is great to be a minority that makes it farther than the majority,hahaha. SO far I have experienced this in my college and in the place I work....

HAte me all ya want!!!

 

[smq123]

once again the word looser should be used /// LOOOSER

Actually, the word "looser" should not be used - the correct word that you're looking for, I believe, is loser. Just for future reference.

Users are reminded to refrain from personal attacks and name calling and to behave professionally in the moderated forums.

Further such behavior, from any user in this thread, will result in the participants receiving administrative action against their accounts and the thread being closed.

Dude I am squeezing the juice out of you..... with out having a gun to the head. What is wrong with you,, why do you want to ban me it is not my fault you are reading my thread...hellooo arent you grown enough to decide wether to read or not to read this blog. F Off , you hater. Why are you so mad ? Thanks for all the info anyways, once again the word looser should be used /// LOOOSER

I believe that line has just been crossed....

 

[Shinken]

Finally... Please ban Blanco.. a troll shouldnt waste so much of so many people's lives.

Indeed. Why is the OP still allowed to post and why is this thread still open?

 

[3dtp]

I believe that line has just been crossed....

Agree in part.
The line has been crossed. It has not just been crossed. That happened in his second or third post. And by his 5th, it was leagues behind him.
Probably time to close the thread or at least move it to the pre-allo where it belongs.

 

[Tired]

It is scary that you are a doctor.

You might be happier in the Pre-Allo forum, where everyone will lie to you and tell you that you can do it. Here people tend to have more (ie - better) perspective. You're a 21yo nursing student in community college. You probably can't do it.

This isnt for me -- You dont know that, you young docs hate it when people are trying to get info to become whatever it is you want to be,, the competition really gets to you.

Yes, as an Ortho Intern in the U.S. Navy, I am terrified of you becoming a Neurosurgeon some time around 2030, when I am thinking about retirement.

No one here is in power to tell me what to do.

That's true. But you asked for, and received, very good advice from people who know more about this topic than you do.

Isnt medicine the most valuable thing to you-- since you in the field?

No. I also have a wife and child. They are the most valuable thing to me.

I guess I value it more than you-- you have the balls to make medicine sound like the least valueble profession in life... I think opposite... But if you ask me what Ithink of people like you -- that tell other to give up on there dreams then I will just say you shoud had not been a doctor- dick head!

When you see a person banging their head against the wall, the nice thing to do is tell them to stop before they get hurt. You think I'm a d*** head; I see myself doing you a favor.

 

[Tired]

Agree in part.
The line has been crossed. It has not just been crossed. That happened in his second or third post. And by his 5th, it was leagues behind him.
Probably time to close the thread or at least move it to the pre-allo where it belongs.

Nah, with all the name calling, the moment the mods read this thread, it will be closed and he'll be banned. Just enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[3dtp]

No one here is in power to tell me what to do. I swear that I think that I am going to f up alot of doctors in my career.

Believe what you want. There are many program directors who read this site. They will not tell you what to do and cannot stop you from applying, but they can, and the smart ones will tell you they will not accept someone with these attitudes into their institutions.

'nuff said, setenv "IGNORE THREAD"

 

[RandomBlackManX]

After reading this thread, I never laughed so hard in my life. Just...wow.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Nothing more to see here...