What do Medical Students want from publishers?

[JMalley]

What do Medical Students want from publishers? If you could tell the medical publishing industry what you would like in Basic Science textbooks…what would it be? Do you want information related to the book online? Q&A? Case Studies? Images? Animations? Links? As a medical publisher, I am interested in hearing what you have to say

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[phoenixsupra]

What do Medical Students want from publishers? If you could tell the medical publishing industry what you would like in Basic Science textbooks…what would it be? Do you want information related to the book online? Q&A? Case Studies? Images? Animations? Links? As a medical publisher, I am interested in hearing what you have to say

Three things I value when choosing a book. It must be short, simple and demystifying.

For obvious reasons textbooks can't conform to this. Therefore they are usually crap. I like the suggestions you make in general. Try not to make it too verbose. "Science" is mostly jargon and a smidge of common sense. Explain the jargon in as few words as possible and arange the page so that it's not visually confusing. Good luck.

 

[Samoa]

For a *textbook* I like pictures, clearly written prose, text that makes it easy to pick out what's essential for a basic understanding of the subject, but is detailed and current enough for the book to serve as a reference later.

I don't mind a big book if it serves as a good learning tool on the front end and a good reference later.

On an accompanying CD, I like animations, case studies, and lots and lots of multiple choice questions for self-testing.

 

[EMTLizzy]

On an accompanying CD, I like animations, case studies, and lots and lots of multiple choice questions for self-testing.

CD's are great to go with a textbook. Videos are good as well as animated videos showing processed (ie biochem). A web site for the book is also helpful where you can access extra information, have a forum discussion on specific chapters, or see any updates/changes made to the book.

 

[phoenixsupra]

CD's are great to go with a textbook. Videos are good as well as animated videos showing processed (ie biochem). A web site for the book is also helpful where you can access extra information, have a forum discussion on specific chapters, or see any updates/changes made to the book.

That's great for undergrad. But if you keep that up in medschool I'll give you a medal.

 

[JMalley]

“If we build it…?” I realize students like lots of Q&A for board prep, but do you need it for the basic science courses? Or, are the basic science courses simply very long and intense board prep?

I guess there are two issues, what would you want in a textbook print version. And would on-line components compel you to buy a book over one that does not have any online extras? And what on-line components would be compelling enough to make you consider one book over another?
JM

 

[Neuronix]

I like books that are clear, concise, complete, and are as engaging as possible. Clinical Microbiology Made Ridiculously Simple is a good example of this, which is why almost every med student I know owns a copy. However, we all know the "Made Ridiculously Simple" series includes other books. Why don't they sell as well? They aren't complete! I got Clinical Neuroanatomy MRS, and I was sorely disappointed at its level of inclusion. So, I'm sort of challenging the publisher to release more fun and interesting books with plenty of summaries and tables of what you need to know, but without too much detail.

I've also found some of the BRS books to be very useful for things like Anatomy and Pathology (though it's definately not enough for pathology on its own). While they aren't particularly engaging, and sometimes teeter on the not complete enough edge, they do identify what you need to know and summarize it with Q&A type questions. I know alot of people who use board review types of books exclusively for classes. Anatomy is a good example. Why do I need a book to tell me where the structures are when I can just look at them in situ? What I need is a quick reference or study guide to help me remember it all.

The only feature that would really sell me on a book is if it included well-written and fairly large numbers of additional multiple-choice and short answer (not long mechanism) quiz questions. I own the Robbins review for that purpose, as well as the pre-test and other types of question books. I do like alot of Q&A for basic science prep, because I do look at basic science like boards prep. With a certain amount of variation from school to school, the same material is going to get tested everywhere. I learn very well from old exams and standardized questions. It really helps me to identify exactly what I don't know.

As for the online features, no thanks. I'll go with the cheaper book over an Internet or CD-ROM feature I'll probably never use.

 

[::Seabass::]

The only feature that would really sell me on a book is if it included well-written and fairly large numbers of additional multiple-choice and short answer (not long mechanism) quiz questions. I own the Robbins review for that purpose, as well as the pre-test and other types of question books. I do like alot of Q&A for basic science prep, because I do look at basic science like boards prep. With a certain amount of variation from school to school, the same material is going to get tested everywhere. I learn very well from old exams and standardized questions. It really helps me to identify exactly what I don't know.

Most of us already buy extensive note sets/syllabi to follow along with during lecture and is our initial intro to the material. We mainly buy books to supplement or present the info in a way that is clearer our helps us learn faster. If I have 300+ pgs of notes for a class per test, I'm not gonna spend a ton of time reading a book unless it is really good.

As for the online features, no thanks. I'll go with the cheaper book over an Internet or CD-ROM feature I'll probably never use.

Agreed with the first part. You really learn best from quizzing yourself and missing questions. Look at how much material is included in med school texts, can you imagine wanting to memorize all that?? The quiz questions give a somewhat less painful way of consuming large amounts of material so it isn't as tedious. Flow charts and illustrations are good too for giving your brain a break. Also the more forms/ways I look at info, the more completely I remember it. Probably anything that would help you remember stuff would help us to.

I wouldn't buy a book before due to internet but it has been a big time saver having internet access to Robbin's and Cecil's complete text this year in PBL. When I have to go home and look a topic up and do a one page write up 2-3 times a week, this feature really saves me a lot of time by being able to cut and paste (and of course we reference. ) But I'm not sure how helpful it would be in the future, study stuff via the internet isn't easy.

 

[EMTLizzy]

That's great for undergrad. But if you keep that up in medschool I'll give you a medal.

I didn't keep it up in undergrad, but it's always nice to know it's there. Much like my PDA. I keep it with me at all times so I can have the potential to be organized, but I rarely am.

 

[beanbean]

I use online resources quite frequently in addition to regular text. Having access to text through MDConsult and PubMed is very helpful when needing to quicly lookup something. I use my laptop everyday and having access to a variety of sources when you don't have a textbook right in front of you is great. Textbooks are also much heavier than a laptop to lug around with you.

I very much agree with the comments about Micro Made Ridiculously Simple. It is silly and corny but the pictures stick with you. The chapters are short and concise, but very complete.

Lipponcotts Biochem is also very good, but a bit dense at times.

BRS Path and Anatomy are very helpful for review.

I wish someone would make a great pharm review book like the Ridiculously Simple books.

Big books are ok, but I wish at times Robbins and Harrisons were made into 2 or 3 smaller volumes that would be a bit more portable.

 

[phoenixsupra]

I didn't keep it up in undergrad, but it's always nice to know it's there. Much like my PDA. I keep it with me at all times so I can have the potential to be organized, but I rarely am.

Lizzy, I know EXACTLY what you mean.

 

[jonb12997]

I'd really like to see CD's with the figures from the book on them as simple JPEGs... that way I can make study sheets using the figures from the books and not have to drag out my scanner or spend 30 minutes on google image search looking for a good picture....

 

[djohnston]

I'd really like to see CD's with the figures from the book on them as simple JPEGs... that way I can make study sheets using the figures from the books and not have to drag out my scanner or spend 30 minutes on google image search looking for a good picture....

YES YES YES

 

[JMalley]

I'd really like to see CD's with the figures from the book on them as simple JPEGs... that way I can make study sheets using the figures from the books and not have to drag out my scanner or spend 30 minutes on google image search looking for a good picture....

One of the top items on my list is making the images, from our books, available. They will probably be online rather than on a CD, but the good news is that they will be indexed by chapter and figure number. So if you have the book, and you know what figure you are looking for it will be a snap. And there will be no extra cost to the book buyer.
JM

 

[JMalley]

Agreed with the first part. You really learn best from quizzing yourself and missing questions. Look at how much material is included in med school texts, can you imagine wanting to memorize all that?? The quiz questions give a somewhat less painful way of consuming large amounts of material so it isn't as tedious. Flow charts and illustrations are good too for giving your brain a break. Also the more forms/ways I look at info, the more completely I remember it. Probably anything that would help you remember stuff would help us to.

I wouldn't buy a book before due to internet but it has been a big time saver having internet access to Robbin's and Cecil's complete text this year in PBL. When I have to go home and look a topic up and do a one page write up 2-3 times a week, this feature really saves me a lot of time by being able to cut and paste (and of course we reference. ) But I'm not sure how helpful it would be in the future, study stuff via the internet isn't easy.

This might be a stupid question… do you have to have the Q&A in USMLE format? Or would good ol’ multiple choice questions be okay if they are in the book?
JM

 

[cooldreams]

my very NUMBER 1 thing i would LOVE to see from the publishers - books in software format. this may mean pdf, word, txt, whatever. i love this because usually, i DO NOT read the entire book, and often times the index is useless. so if you were to do a word or phrase search using your commonly available software program then you can find exactly what you are looking for in seconds.

if you were to do this, then obviously a software picture like a jpeg or gif would not help because i could not search the words.

whenever i have to get a book, or a book on a subject, i ALWAYS look for a software version first. everyone i know wants them too. i do not understand why more of them are like that, much cheaper to publish, much cheaper to store, easier to sell. if you are worried about copy right infringment, check out some of the things being done in the music world. you can do a lot, but this HAS to be the way of the future anyways, and a powerful publisher doing this will be ahead of the game.

i also know that the whole e-book thing came and went, but i tell you, it was just as costly to the consumers as buying a book, you had to use their proprietary software to read them, sometimes you couldnt search, and the title selection was very weak.

 

[Neuronix]

I wonder how many of the people clamoring for electronic versions of textbooks know how to use Uptodate, MDConsult, and the PubMed books for reference. For me, that's about all the reference I usually need.

 

[cooldreams]

nope, sure dont. i just got accepted to medical school.

i do know that all throughout undergrad, major in electrical engineering, minor in math, lots of biology and chemistry electives, i spent a lot of time trying to find things......

 

[Anka]

As far as questions at the end of each chapter -- I like the Lawrence format (where you have some multiple choice questions, and then 'questions for oral review' or whatever they're called). Doing tons of practice questions are key to doing well on our in-class exams.

Anka

 

[Eiko]

What do Medical Students want from publishers? If you could tell the medical publishing industry what you would like in Basic Science textbooks…what would it be? Do you want information related to the book online? Q&A? Case Studies? Images? Animations? Links? As a medical publisher, I am interested in hearing what you have to say

Case studies. Questions and answers after every subject heading with situational questions using the information from the smaller subjects. Things that ask for differenitation of similar and would-be-confused subjects. With answers availabel at the back of the chapter.

Good glossaries.

Detailed outlines at the front of textbook chapters. Chapter quizzes that are more than just information spewing... ie. as in "what if" or "thought" questions.

Information that cross-references the subject with other medical subjects. I.e. biochemistry with physiology.

A good example of a good quality textbook is the Anatomy book "Fundamental Concepts of Human Anatomy" by Michael Shively & Donald P Holman, Pearson Custom publishing, 2003.

It's an undergraduate textbook, but probably is the best one I have ever seen. I prefer it to my graduate neuroanatomy books.

 

[Eiko]

This might be a stupid question… do you have to have the Q&A in USMLE format? Or would good ol’ multiple choice questions be okay if they are in the book?
JM

USMLE format are the best. I've heard from countless med students that their USMLE and COMLEX pracitce books helped them more with their classes than their actual textbooks.

Then again, I've helped edit books like these, so I might be a little biased towards them

 

[Samoa]

Lipponcotts Biochem is also very good, but a bit dense at times.

Tell me you did NOT just say that! I would have said the exact opposite.

Big books are ok, but I wish at times Robbins and Harrisons were made into 2 or 3 smaller volumes that would be a bit more portable.

That's a good idea. I also like the JPEG illustration idea. Pictures are always what I remember best on the exam.

And as for multiple choice questions: USMLE format is great, but any kind of multiple choice is fine.

And yes, I consider our basic science classes to be mainly board review. Although my professors would probably not be thrilled to know that.

 

[MeowMix]

In any textbook, a CD-ROM that's as good as the one provided with the Campbell and Reece biology text. I still go back to that for explanations of elementary concepts. The animations are excellent and actually take advantage of the medium instead of simply moving printed stuff to the computer; the quizzes are excellent, everything about it is great. And the book is great too. Give me a book as good as that - well designed, well written, well organized.

I want an embryology textbook that is simple, clear, and well written. Larsen has nice design and figures but is too dense. Sadler/Langman is less dense but is horribly designed, and the simbryo CD is inadequate especially for early embryology. The board review embryo texts don't have the necessary figures to understand the material the first time around.

 

[Bevo]

I did think that basic sciences as my time for preparing for the boards.

I think questions and/or case presentations are almost a must . I think that really helps put the concepts into perspective and are a tool to help us evaluate if we are really learning what we should be.

For instance, in my microbiology class, our professor would teach us about an organism, but then would give us some off-beat case about it. It sounded funny and the story was off the wall, but when it came to taking the exams, those are the things that popped in my head when I read the questions.

I never thought of having diagrams, tables, etc available online, but it sounds like a great idea. I was wishing I could have gotten more than a few of those out of robbins when I was going through pathology (I guess you can get them now with the new robbins).

As for a CD; never been one to really utilize it when given. And those that I have gotten, I have never been that impressed with.

I would have to agree with what Somoa and Neuronix said about the writing as well.

 

[16846]

What do Medical Students want from publishers? If you could tell the medical publishing industry what you would like in Basic Science textbooks…what would it be? Do you want information related to the book online? Q&A? Case Studies? Images? Animations? Links? As a medical publisher, I am interested in hearing what you have to say

If i'm not mistaken, you actually work for one of the big med. textbook publishers? You weighed in here on an issue regarding the copying of a textbook CD for a person that purchased the text secondhand w/o the CD?

I only bring this up to determine if this is a hypothetical situation or you are actually someone who can give our feedback some weight. If you are indeed the same person I am thinking of, I would encourage everyone to interact with this thread and give lots of feedback since this is someone who can actually do something about it. It probably also wouldn't hurt to ask him for a free copy of the latest addition of your favorite med. text

 

[JMalley]

If i'm not mistaken, you actually work for one of the big med. textbook publishers? You weighed in here on an issue regarding the copying of a textbook CD for a person that purchased the text secondhand w/o the CD?

I only bring this up to determine if this is a hypothetical situation or you are actually someone who can give our feedback some weight. If you are indeed the same person I am thinking of, I would encourage everyone to interact with this thread and give lots of feedback since this is someone who can actually do something about it. It probably also wouldn't hurt to ask him for a free copy of the latest addition of your favorite med. text

I do, in fact work with a big medical publisher…actually I have worked for all of the big medical publishers at one time or another. I did not however comment on copy CD from the back of a used book. I would be interested in knowing more about that very issue.

One of the problems of putting software in a book is that no matter what we do to try and stop pirating…”property rights management tools” Medical Students seem to be able to break the code, and copy the software. This is why you will probably see more “extras” on a web based platform rather than in the back of the book.

With regard to communicating with me, I would appreciate keeping the thread going. I have been a long time proponent of listening to the customer; after all you are the ones that have to spend the money on our books. I should also note that several of the students that I have used as book reviewers are now authors of medical textbooks.

Thanks for all of your help.

JM

 

[monkeyarms]

i would that all the feedback would be most useful to you if it were framed a little better, i.e. is this the authoritative text (robbins path, goodman & gilman pharm), a medium speed (purves neurosci, lippincott biochem), or a quick burn (ridiculously simple, brs)? the components desirred in each are distinctly different. focusing the desired outcome might help you get better feedback for the specific problem.

there is also clearly great variation amongst students as to which topics they enjoy the most....people tend to buy more literature and subsequently to read it if they enjoy the topic. thus emphasis of certain topics as the basic unit of educational currency can be important. for example, i am a path guy in that i can only fully grasp a topic when i can read the pathophys and then incorporate it into the histology. i have had conversations with classmates who much prefer to base their understanding through immunological cascades. yet more want rote memorization, organization and analysis through vocabulary, clinical scenarios, or pattern recognition. choosing a "stylistic axis" like that seems to me to be what gives certain books their personality, and often times that personality is what helps them become a standard for the subject.

it should also be pointed out that what people want/buy is strongly correlated to their stage in school, i.e early vs. late 1st year, early vs. late 2nd year, etc. i would say medium grades are the better speed for 1st year material where testing well and grasping concepts are at a premium, whereas 2nd years tend to want swift reviews for exposure and exhaustive texts for presentations during group work, research projects, future reference, etc.

my last tidbit say that standardized format for each topic is also essential for user friendliness. history, epidemiology, signs & symptoms, pathogenesis, diagnosis, treatment, etc divided by bold headings makes it much easier to peel through a text or to reference it because you know what to expect when you turn the pages to that subject. it's familiar. comfortable even!

anyway, if you're ever recruiting students to review texts let me know!

 

[sacrament]

I'd really like to see CD's with the figures from the book on them as simple JPEGs... that way I can make study sheets using the figures from the books and not have to drag out my scanner or spend 30 minutes on google image search looking for a good picture....

It's interesting to see somebody say this, because it seems like 90% of the time this is all that the accompanying CD contains, and I always think to myself "Who the f--- uses this?!" and then I fling it into the garbage can. I guess if you're going to include a CD with the book, then you might as well toss the images from the text on there while you're at it, but I for one find it utterly useless and would rather see something that actually takes advantage of the medium... interactive case presentations, audio/video, etc. If the CD is just crap from the book in another form, why do I care?

 

[me454555]

I'd like a micro book that breaks bugs and diseases down by system instead of bug. Its impossible to follow along with the traditional books b/c its tough to follow along with them. Also include lots of USLME quesitions. Those alwasy help too.

 

[X.O.]

I find CDs and website stuff attached to books to be a big fat waste of dough and limited use. Who honestly uses that stuff on a consistent basis? I think of these things as a ploy to keep book prices high or to get people to buy a new edition that hasnt changed too much again and keep them from turning to the used book market.