What do we do with Non Doctors wanting to be called Dr?

[oldpro]

Well it keeps coming up

Dr xxx is taking care of me and they are a PA or that's Dr YYY and they are a PA

what do we do? It's so bad that I was talking to person I just met and made a comment about debt and Medical school and they said "Me too" "When I graduated I said as soon as I could I would buy a nice car" I came to find out they were not a Doctor as they lead me to believe but a PA and one that has a rep of telling others that they are a Doctor and they have no respect for Nurses other care givers, one nurse said "XYZ thinks they are always right even in the face of Doctors" LOL WOW,

Part of the problem is that the Public does not know any better also.

How often have you seen this?

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[Strength&Speed]

Its pretty common. A lot of people dont' know if somebody has a white coat on and is treating them, assume they are a doctor. You can correct them if you want. I don't know if that helps or not. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, depending on what they said or how much time I have. I'd say a lot of docs do the same. Some let it slide, others correct.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Well it keeps coming up

Dr xxx is taking care of me and they are a PA or that's Dr YYY and they are a PA

what do we do? It's so bad that I was talking to person I just met and made a comment about debt and Medical school and they said "Me too" "When I graduated I said as soon as I could I would buy a nice car" I came to find out they were not a Doctor as they lead me to believe but a PA and one that has a rep of telling others that they are a Doctor and they have no respect for Nurses other care givers, one nurse said "XYZ thinks they are always right even in the face of Doctors" LOL WOW,

Part of the problem is that the Public does not know any better also.

How often have you seen this?

What about Naturopaths.. In the US now... even they are referring to themselves as "Physicians", PCPs, and "Oncology Specialists".

http://www.naturopathicspecialists.com/Meet_Our_Physicians.html

http://www.oncanp.org/

http://www.naturopathic.org/

http://torihudson.com/?page_id=2

http://www.drbratt.com/biography.php

Who knows.. they may try to also create medical and surgical specalties of their own and become the next DOs of North America.

Add DNPs into the mix as PCPs and Anesthesia providers as well...


I find it interesting that these sort of pathways into healthcare seem to only originate in the US.

8-9 years ago in order to work as a doctor in Australia you had to have a registerable medical degree (MBBS or MD only). I can actually remember only 5 years ago seeing forms published by the Australian immigration department that stated, "all immunization records or xrays from the US must be signed by US MD, not DO". I think they have have changed this policy since then. I wonder if in 10 years time you will have US NDs, DNPs, or some other alternative doctor applying for "allopathic" medical registration in Australia. There are only a small few DOs currently working in Australia to my knowlege and this is because they were able to convince the Australian medical council that they were equivalent because they were registered in the FAMIER/WHO list of medical schools. I wonder if this will be the next goal of ND or DNP programs... They might be seeking to be added to this list next as it may give them greater leverage. Will be interesting to see how things pan out.

 

[oldpro]

As sad as it is to say we need a new law across the USA, since laws are to protect people from Harm, I believe a Law that only a Physician in the practice of Medicine in the Clinical setting can by law be called "Doctor" and all others are called something else is needed.

I do not want to even get started about Natural Paths, I feel they are even more dangerous then the DNP's as far as potential harm to the Public.

Average People are not as smart as they believe when it comes to medicine.
Thats why the weight loss industry is so successful with all the Quick loss cures and "Crazy Like a Fox" Multi level marketing scams work.

Maybe we need laws to protect the under educated public?

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

As sad as it is to say we need a new law across the USA, since laws are to protect people from Harm, I believe a Law that only a Physician in the practice of Medicine in the Clinical setting can by law be called "Doctor" and all others are called something else is needed.

I do not want to even get started about Natural Paths, I feel they are even more dangerous then the DNP's as far as potential harm to the Public.

Average People are not as smart as they believe when it comes to medicine.
Thats why the weight loss industry is so successful with all the Quick loss cures and "Crazy Like a Fox" Multi level marketing scams work.

Maybe we need laws to protect the under educated public?

Well... I do feel that the US gov needs to provide more incentives for medical graduates to go into Family practice (GP). Maybe they should allow all those who complete FP/GP residency programs to have 100% student loan forgiveness. Then you might not have as many allied health care/mid levels (or alterna-docs) attempting to fill the gap.

We do need to have a greater emphasis on primary preventative health care in the US. It would be nice to actually be able to see a family doctor (and develop a relationship with them) as was commonplace pre 1970s. Unfortunantly.. it looks like under Hillary care or other plans like it you may see everyone covered.. but only a few will actually ever see a real physician. As it sounds like they want to give everyone a midlevel PCP.

If the US is going to adopt a more Universial Health Care system.. you'd hope that they would also adopt the benefits that go along with it. In the UK for example local students don't pay more than 2k/year or so in tuition. (Even if you attend Oxford or Cambridge med) Compare that with Harvard Med (an equivalent education at 50k+/year). I'd also like to see the US have massive reductions in malpractice nationwide. The US goverment could also potentially provide a malpractice insurance plan to all doctors nationwide. (the US gov already provides insurance to all US banks via FDIC) This would I believe reduce costs and reduce claims.

 

[oldpro]

Whats the incentives? Medicare cut another 10% when all the prices are increasing by 40 to 75% recently the largest single increase of consumer prices since the great Depression.

Who will want to go into primary care now?

 

[primadonna22274]

Oldpro,
While I sympathize with you and agree that non-doctors should not be calling themselves or be called doctors, this is one unusual PA anecdote you mention.
I've been a PA coming up on 8 years now. It was drilled into us from day 1 that we were PAs, not doctors, and to ever hold ourselves out as doctors was just plain FRAUD. So, if people allow this dork to be called "doctor", it's fraud. He should know better. If he doesn't know better, tell him so. Or talk to his supervising physician and have him/her tell him.
If that doesn't work, make a report to the BME. It WILL get noticed.
This kind of shenanigans gives the rest of us a bad name. It makes me mad. I don't like to see this left unpunished.
But really this is NOT common.
OK? OK.
Lisa

 

[oldpro]

Oldpro,
While I sympathize with you and agree that non-doctors should not be calling themselves or be called doctors, this is one unusual PA anecdote you mention.
I've been a PA coming up on 8 years now. It was drilled into us from day 1 that we were PAs, not doctors, and to ever hold ourselves out as doctors was just plain FRAUD. So, if people allow this dork to be called "doctor", it's fraud. He should know better. If he doesn't know better, tell him so. Or talk to his supervising physician and have him/her tell him.
If that doesn't work, make a report to the BME. It WILL get noticed.
This kind of shenanigans gives the rest of us a bad name. It makes me mad. I don't like to see this left unpunished.
But really this is NOT common.
OK? OK.
Lisa

I'm sorry, I have 20 years experience as an RN, this is not one isolated event, I know of 3 more around here who do the same thing, they are PA's allowing Patients to call them Doctors, they work for MD's but when the patients are asked who is your doctor they say "XXX" who is a PA. ( the patients think the PA is a Doctor, it has been very very clear, after 14 months of clinicals I have met these patients and done the H&P of 100's now, I did not make this up) Others say that the PA's portray themselves as such. SO this is a problem. ( not to mention the ones I came across years before, but recent is more relevant )

Please do not try to argue that I do not know or have experience enough to comment. I do.

I agree this is not all, it is common enough though, enough for us to discuss, if this happens at all it is wrong and you should not try to help cover it up.

I knew posting this the apologist's for PA's would surface. Get a grip, it happens and needs to be addressed.

as far as arguing isolated blah blah, anecdotal, blah blah, its not isolated I have worked in no less then 10 different East coast cities since the early 90's, I have known this to be a problem since I became an RN in the late 80's, as far as proof, the only way to prove this is names and where and when and details I cannot obviously do that.

Also you cannot say that this does not happen, you have some kind of study evidence that it does not?

Until we can prove it does not happen the reports that it does go on are significant enough for discussion. Dismissing it is an attempt to cover it up and that is wrong.

I do respect your opinion and glad you agree that this is problem. But we should discuss this openly here.

Thank you

 

[primadonna22274]

Oldpro...I'm missing it how you think I'm trying to dismiss this issue and cover it up? You couldn't be further from the truth. What I pointed out is that I have never known a PA who puts him/herself out as a doctor and I have never worked with such a PA. Nor do I want to. It's pretty clear in state statutes of PA practice that to do so is illegal, unethical, and unprofessional on all counts.
I think you're jumping on the wrong PA here (me). I'm in your court. Duh.
Perhaps I've been a sheltered PA, or worked with more honest PAs. Part of the problem here is the doctors who perpetuate this behavior. THAT is a big problem.
So let's talk about it. But don't presume to know me so well that you think I'm one of those apologist PAs. Why exactly do you think I'm willing to subject myself to 4 more years of med school and then residency besides???

Lisa

 

[167649]

As sad as it is to say we need a new law across the USA, since laws are to protect people from Harm, I believe a Law that only a Physician in the practice of Medicine in the Clinical setting can by law be called "Doctor" and all others are called something else is needed.

Agreed. I'm not exactly sure on the current legalities regarding this issue (maybe law2doc will stumble on this and chime in), but any restrictions out there don't seem to be routinely followed in practice. I know that there are restrictions for implying you are a medical doctor, by referring to yourself as "dr," in certain situations, like when you are marketing yourself or are in court.

An RN or PA going around and blatenly referring to themselves as a medical doctor to their patients is one thing, but that situation isn't what's most common. It's the subtle things. Take a look at this thread from a while back:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6430746

A nurse with a PhD (we weren't even sure how "legitimate" her PhD is, nobody could look up any of her work) who refers to herself as "doctor" on her clinical website. (It's funny, this woman found us and even made up alter-ego screennames and started posting). Sure, a PhD is a doctorate, but the way she refers to herself in a clinical setting is quite misleading if you ask me.

Maybe we need laws to protect the under educated public?

Or we should just do a better job in our education system. In school, nobody ever learns what the differences are between an NP, PA, and MD/DO are.

 

[Miami_med]

Primary care models that have moved towards collecting cash have consistently been able to earn equal to (or more) than the insurance models while being able to develop a relationship with patients that is not dictated by guys with AA degrees. Another interesting point is that most of the cash doctors that I've spoken with are actually supported in large part by working class individuals in the low to middle income range. This is the group that tends to not have insurance, and they seem to be able to afford cash payments (which are cheaper than insurance).

We don't need incentives from the government. We don't need special government support for FPs. It's the government support that put physicians in the mess that they're in now. There are two roles for the government:

1. Stop licensing fraud and protect the public from fraud. In other words, people shouldn't be able to lie about their status.

2. Stop getting in the way everytime a primary care doctor finds a way to make money by claiming that it is "hurting the poor" or "taking advantage of Medicare/Medicaid," or "for the rich," or any of the other million excuses that are used to take advantage of physicians.

It is completely feasable to collect cash, see less than 20 patients a day, and make 200k if there wasn't this constant specter of the government making your practice illegal and forcing everyone to buy crappy health plans owned by political supporters.

It's funny, the one thing the government ought to do to protect physicians is the one thing it is consistently moving away from doing. Funny how that works.

 

[oldpro]

Oldpro...I'm missing it how you think I'm trying to dismiss this issue and cover it up? You couldn't be further from the truth. What I pointed out is that I have never known a PA who puts him/herself out as a doctor and I have never worked with such a PA. Nor do I want to. It's pretty clear in state statutes of PA practice that to do so is illegal, unethical, and unprofessional on all counts.
I think you're jumping on the wrong PA here (me). I'm in your court. Duh.
Perhaps I've been a sheltered PA, or worked with more honest PAs. Part of the problem here is the doctors who perpetuate this behavior. THAT is a big problem.
So let's talk about it. But don't presume to know me so well that you think I'm one of those apologist PAs. Why exactly do you think I'm willing to subject myself to 4 more years of med school and then residency besides???

Lisa

I know it seemed like I was jumping on you and I was afraid of looking like that , Here publicly I'm sorry and it was not my intent,

You did say

this is one unusual PA anecdote you mention.

This is not the case through my 20+ years in Medicine. While it is not rampant these 20 years, of late it has been an Issue here in Rural GA. so it has raised my own eyebrows.

Then this DNP has really worried me.

these things need attention and we need to be actively working to correct this behavior in the Public.

 

[primadonna22274]

Nah, it's all right, I'm tough.
Rural GA...curious where. I'm in SC although an Oregonian by nature.
PA practice here is about 15 years behind where we were in Oregon. Just in the last 2 years have PAs in SC been able to prescribe DEA controlled substances (um, we've been doing that for quite a while in OR).
GA is even worse off. My dear friend moved from SC to just outside Atlanta (Lilburn, now in Snellville) and she was amazed that she saw NO PAs practicing in the ED (she's an ED RN). There seems to be a definite bias against PAs there...but maybe it's more of a pro-NP state. I'm not sure since I haven't worked there.
In fact I told myself a few years ago I wouldn't want to practice in SC but life is funny. It's what you make it I suppose.
Be careful about generalities though. Most of the PAs and even a few of the NPs I know are skeptical about the DNP movement.
L.

I know it seemed like I was jumping on you and I was afraid of looking like that , Here publicly I'm sorry and it was not my intent,

You did say This is not the case through my 20+ years in Medicine. While it is not rampant these 20 years, of late it has been an Issue here in Rural GA. so it has raised my own eyebrows.

Then this DNP has really worried me.

these things need attention and we need to be actively working to correct this behavior in the Public.

 

[southerndoc]

You did say This is not the case through my 20+ years in Medicine. While it is not rampant these 20 years, of late it has been an Issue here in Rural GA. so it has raised my own eyebrows.

Georgia law strictly forbids a non-MD/non-DO from calling him or herself "doctor" in a healthcare setting.

 

[southerndoc]

My dear friend moved from SC to just outside Atlanta (Lilburn, now in Snellville) and she was amazed that she saw NO PAs practicing in the ED (she's an ED RN). There seems to be a definite bias against PAs there...but maybe it's more of a pro-NP state

There aren't many PA's or NP's in ED's in Georgia.

 

[oldpro]

Georgia law strictly forbids a non-MD/non-DO from calling him or herself "doctor" in a healthcare setting.

You are 100% correct of course, but it is still going on.

I hesitate to tell you where I am in Ga, there is a PA in the ED here and its been a problem with treatment and DX, it has been noticed by the other attending's. as a 4th yr I have no real say in this of course, I'm a scut monkey still. The other PA's are working out of offices and I'm telling the 100% straight truth on this. It needs to stop.

 

[oldpro]

Nah, it's all right, I'm tough.
Rural GA...curious where. I'm in SC although an Oregonian by nature.
PA practice here is about 15 years behind where we were in Oregon. Just in the last 2 years have PAs in SC been able to prescribe DEA controlled substances (um, we've been doing that for quite a while in OR).
GA is even worse off. My dear friend moved from SC to just outside Atlanta (Lilburn, now in Snellville) and she was amazed that she saw NO PAs practicing in the ED (she's an ED RN). There seems to be a definite bias against PAs there...but maybe it's more of a pro-NP state. I'm not sure since I haven't worked there.
In fact I told myself a few years ago I wouldn't want to practice in SC but life is funny. It's what you make it I suppose.
Be careful about generalities though. Most of the PAs and even a few of the NPs I know are skeptical about the DNP movement.
L.

Since we are public and there are only about 20,000 that live in a town out here I hesitate to narrow down what part of GA other then that.

This is a problem and as I said in the other post is has to stop.

It was a NP who convinced me not to go to NP school and go to Medical school BTW.

 

[primadonna22274]

That's cool oldpro. I understand the need for some anonymity, especially where you are needing to get a residency spot etc. When you are a resident (e.g. graduated) I think you would have a bit more clout to speak up with (less) fear of retribution. It's a difficult dance sometimes politically speaking. I can't imagine why this goes on but it bothers me that it does, and that it's sanctioned by the higher-ups.
You could talk to the ED admin but for various reasons may not be the battle you want to pick at this stage in your career. (Sad but true.)
I just want you to know that there are many more ethical PAs than there are these types of schmucks...many more.
Please don't let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch.
L.

 

[primadonna22274]

p.s. I believe in PAs but I convinced my sister to go med school all the way rather than be where I am several years down the line, knowing I need to go back.
I've counseled many people pondering PA vs. MD/DO to just go to med school. It's a tough thing to make peace with being an assistant for one's whole career. Ultimately I want more.
L.

 

[DrJosephKim]

This will get especially confusing as we start seeing Doctors of Nursing Practice (DNP or DrNP).

http://www.aacn.nche.edu/dnp/DNPProgramList.htm

This is a huge movement that may gain significant momentum.

 

[Punchap]

Who knows.. they may try to also create medical and surgical specalties of their own and become the next DOs of North America.
Add DNPs into the mix as PCPs and Anesthesia providers as well...


I find it interesting that these sort of pathways into healthcare seem to only originate in the US.

8-9 years ago in order to work as a doctor in Australia you had to have a registerable medical degree (MBBS or MD only). I can actually remember only 5 years ago seeing forms published by the Australian immigration department that stated, "all immunization records or xrays from the US must be signed by US MD, not DO". I think they have have changed this policy since then. I wonder if in 10 years time you will have US NDs, DNPs, or some other alternative doctor applying for "allopathic" medical registration in Australia. There are only a small few DOs currently working in Australia to my knowlege and this is because they were able to convince the Australian medical council that they were equivalent because they were registered in the FAMIER/WHO list of medical schools. I wonder if this will be the next goal of ND or DNP programs... They might be seeking to be added to this list next as it may give them greater leverage. Will be interesting to see how things pan out.

Seriously? Are you really equating DNP takeover to DOs? That is just ignorant given that DOs receive the equivalent training time to MDs. DOs can go through MD residencies and specialize in all areas that MDs can. Most medical professionals in the U.S. understand this, and other countries are catching on too. So why haven't you?

 

[Tired]

Seriously? Are you really equating DNP takeover to DOs? That is just ignorant given that DOs receive the equivalent training time to MDs. DOs can go through MD residencies and specialize in all areas that MDs can. Most medical professionals in the U.S. understand this, and other countries are catching on too. So why haven't you?

I wouldn't get too self-righteous there, tiger.

After all, it's the Osteopathic community that insists they have a seperate curriculum, seperate philosophy, and so require a seperate governing organization and seperate GME system.

Given that, perhaps you should cut a break to governmental groups who ask for evidence of "equivalent education and training" prior to granting unrestricted licensure willy-nilly.

 

[GassiusClay]

I wouldn't get too self-righteous there, tiger.

After all, it's the Osteopathic community that insists they have a seperate curriculum, seperate philosophy, and so require a seperate governing organization and seperate GME system.

Given that, perhaps you should cut a break to governmental groups who ask for evidence of "equivalent education and training" prior to granting unrestricted licensure willy-nilly.

Everybody needs to contact their reps and senators. Everybody must realize that they just want to hear from you. You don't need to be freaking eloquent, just make some sense. You will make a difference.

Transparency act should address that MDs,DOs,DDS are the only ones that should be addressed as doctors in clinical setting. Everyone else should be required to clarify their doctorate.

By the way, there are advance practice nurses who are training calling themselves residents now. That's right. Residents. IF you see it at your hospital, complain the administration. The slow takeover of terminology is what we need to stomp out before it gets out of hand.

 

[Tired]

By the way, there are advance practice nurses who are training calling themselves residents now. That's right. Residents. IF you see it at your hospital, complain the administration. The slow takeover of terminology is what we need to stomp out before it gets out of hand.

At the hospital where I did my intern year, new nurses in their "orientation period" are referred to as "Interns". That's also what it says on their name tags.

 

[Aceofspades]

Interestingly enough, if you look up the etmylogy of the word "doctor"

Etymology:Middle English doctour teacher, doctor, from Anglo-French & Medieval Latin; Anglo-French, from Medieval Latin doctor, from Latin, teacher, from docēre to teach

I have heard that MD's have actually brought this problem upon themselves. "Doctor" should really be reserved to PhD's as they are the true doctors - the ones actually teaching. Yes, some teaching goes on at the MD/DO/DDS/DMD/DPM/OD/DVM/PharmD/DPT... level but it is not the same thing.

Society has only come to view the term "doctor" to mean physician because that's the way the AMA and physicians have spun it and tried to monopolize the title. The title is by no means reserved for MD/DO holders only.

One could argue that as it stands people do associate the Dr. prefix with a medical physician, so I agree that in a medical setting the term should be somewhat restricted to avoid confusion. However, if many patients don't care then what is the point? Midlevels are fighting for more clinical rights every day and getting them. They are in essence becoming the bona fide "doctor."

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Interestingly enough, if you look up the etmylogy of the word "doctor"

Etymology:Middle English doctour teacher, doctor, from Anglo-French & Medieval Latin; Anglo-French, from Medieval Latin doctor, from Latin, teacher, from docēre to teach

I have heard that MD's have actually brought this problem upon themselves. "Doctor" should really be reserved to PhD's as they are the true doctors - the ones actually teaching. Yes, some teaching goes on at the MD/DO/DDS/DMD/DPM/OD/DVM/PharmD/DPT... level but it is not the same thing.

Society has only come to view the term "doctor" to mean physician because that's the way the AMA and physicians have spun it and tried to monopolize the title. The title is by no means reserved for MD/DO holders only.

One could argue that as it stands people do associate the Dr. prefix with a medical physician, so I agree that in a medical setting the term should be somewhat restricted to avoid confusion. However, if many patients don't care then what is the point? Midlevels are fighting for more clinical rights every day and getting them. They are in essence becoming the bona fide "doctor."

In most other areas of the world outside the US. Doctors, Dentists, Vets, etc all complete a "Bachelors" yet they are all still referred to as Dr. So and So.

A British bachelors of medicine is 100% equal to a US doctor of medicine degree.
Your ability to use the title Dr. is regulated by the local area licensing boards. Not because you hold a "doctorate" degree. Perfect example is that even for DNPs (nurses) who may hold a degree with the word "doctor" on it. They can't just go around the hospital with a white coat telling everyone that they are their "doctor".

Look at Physical therapy in the US. 15 years ago it was a bachelors (BSPT), then all programs transitioned to a 2-3 year masters (MSPT), and now all US programs are going to be a 3 year "doctorate" (DPT). The curriculum isn't really any different. The scope of practice of someone who graduated 15 years ago with their bachelors isn't any different than someone who graduated last year with a DPT degree. At the end of the day.. guess what.. you're still just a physical therapist.

In the United States however over the past 10-20 years.. every person who works in a hospital from the nurses to the janitor wants to get a "doctorate". Universities love this and you better believe they are capitalizing on it. The DPT degree of physical therapy is the perfect example. This allows them to better market their degrees and charge higher tuition. $$$



Dr. John Custodian, DJP (Doctor of Janitorial Practice) He likes to wear a white coat when he can too.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Seriously? Are you really equating DNP takeover to DOs?

That is just ignorant given that DOs receive the equivalent training time to MDs. DOs can go through MD residencies and specialize in all areas that MDs can.

It is true however, that DNPs want a piece of the "family practice pie" without actually going to medical school.

Something else we should be mindful of are the Naturopaths. They too want in on the Family Physician buisness. They are pushing for PCP rights in states across the country. Referring to themselves as "Physicians", referring ND school as "medical school", creating residencies, board certification, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturopathic_medical_school_in_North_America#Curriculum

http://www.naturopathic.org/

http://www.aanmc.org/

http://www.cnme.org/

Family Physicians (Naturopaths)

http://www.drsadilek.com/

http://www.naturopathicfamilymedicine.com/drtami.htm

http://www.bnfm.com/


What Is A Naturopathic Doctor?http://www.hopewellmedicine.com/naturopathic.php

Naturopathic doctors (ND) are taught at four-year, graduate-level, accredited medical schools, where they are trained as primary care providers. Naturopathic doctors receive similar basic education in the diagnostic and clinical sciences as medical doctors (MD), with additional training in a wide spectrum of scientifically-based natural therapies. Naturopathic doctors are specialists in the prevention of disease, and in optimizing wellness. Naturopathic doctors diagnose by taking thorough histories, by performing physical exams, and by laboratory testing. Patient education and lifestyle counseling form the foundation of naturopathic medical practice.


I don't know about you.. but looks to me like they are trying follow in the footsteps of the Osteopathic guys. Just like DOs achieved equivalency with MDs in the US in the 1960s. NDs seem to want this to happen for Naturopathy (hmm.. sorry, I mean Naturopathic Physicians).


I wouldn't be surprised if they started lobbying the WHO/Faimer to be listed as medical schools.. and started to create their own plastic surgery, Derm, Optho, Rads residencies too.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Interestingly enough, if you look up the etmylogy of the word "doctor"

Etymology:Middle English doctour teacher, doctor, from Anglo-French & Medieval Latin; Anglo-French, from Medieval Latin doctor, from Latin, teacher, from docēre to teach.

True

One could argue that as it stands people do associate the Dr. prefix with a medical physician, so I agree that in a medical setting the term should be somewhat restricted to avoid confusion.

Agreed.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Transparency act should address that MDs,DOs,DDS are the only ones that should be addressed as doctors in clinical setting. Everyone else should be required to clarify their doctorate.

By the way, there are advance practice nurses who are training calling themselves residents now. That's right. Residents. IF you see it at your hospital, complain the administration. The slow takeover of terminology is what we need to stomp out before it gets out of hand.

Another thing I find amusing is that one of the DNP nursing lobbies is trying to say that because some doctors who graduate from medical school outside of the US receive a "bachelors" degree, that they feel that they shouldn't be allowed to be called "doctor" while working in the US. They apparently feel that their DNP degree (because it has the word doctor in it) makes them more of a doctor than someone who graduated from Cambridge or Oxford medical schools with only a measly "bachelor of Medicine" (MBBCh or MBBChir) degree.

 

[Nasrudin]

In most other areas of the world outside the US. Doctors, Dentists, Vets, etc all complete a "Bachelors" yet they are all still referred to as Dr. So and So.

A British bachelors of medicine is 100% equal to a US doctor of medicine degree.
Your ability to use the title Dr. is regulated by the local area licensing boards. Not because you hold a "doctorate" degree. Perfect example is that even for DNPs (nurses) who may hold a degree with the word "doctor" on it. They can't just go around the hospital with a white coat telling everyone that they are their "doctor".

Look at Physical therapy in the US. 15 years ago it was a bachelors (BSPT), then all programs transitioned to a 2-3 year masters (MSPT), and now all US programs are going to be a 3 year “doctorate” (DPT). The curriculum isn’t really any different. The scope of practice of someone who graduated 15 years ago with their bachelors isn’t any different than someone who graduated last year with a DPT degree. At the end of the day.. guess what.. you’re still just a physical therapist.

In the United States however over the past 10-20 years.. every person who works in a hospital from the nurses to the janitor wants to get a "doctorate". Universities love this and you better believe they are capitalizing on it. The DPT degree of physical therapy is the perfect example. This allows them to better market their degrees and charge higher tuition. $$$



Dr. John Custodian, DJP (Doctor of Janitorial Practice) He likes to wear a white coat when he can too.

That is so true. There's nothing more annoying about health care than trying to navigate its myriad levels of employment sponsored by those b.s. little programs that certify people to take vital signs.

It is the sole reason it is physician or bust in this game.

I have no idea how this hyper-educative environment got to where it is.

And you know what else pisses me off. Some nurse in a white coat who hasn't seen patients since the Nixon administration wandering the daylight hours in the hospital nitpicking working stiffs like for not wearing pink scrubs--my job title's assigned color--because it confuses patients.

I almost said b!tch please, you're the one trying imitate something your not. Including that mannish bowl cut. But then they don't pay you 20/hr for unskilled labor just anywhere so I just said: "....hmmph."

If you ask me that's how you guys lost the initial battle--allowing all these wannabes to where a white coat. The lack of originality is mind-blowing. What's so great about a f'n white coat anyway. If I was a nurse manager in charge of picking outfits. I wear this mf'er here:

http://www.bootleg.tv/JBbwCapeCrop.jpg

 

[psy]

How about this one?