What do you all think of DO's?

[tucomnvms1]

Hello I am about to begin my first year as a medical student at a DO school.. I was just wondering what all of you MD students thought of DOs..

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[78222]

I dont really care.

 

[rup47]

Hello I am about to begin my first year as a medical student at a DO school.. I was just wondering what all of you MD students thought of DOs..

I think of them as medical students, MD or DO school, we're all going to be doctors who will be working alongside each other in the future

Good luck in school

 

[Nodelphi]

I agree with the above, MD, DO, it's all basicly the same, we have DNP's to grouse about now!

I kid, I kid.

 

[flukemcd]

I dont really care.

You cared enough to reply, douchebag.

I've met some really sharp DO's, at both the student and professional level. It seems to me like DO classes are either made up of people that are poor test-takers, or people that screwed around in school without direction only to make the decision to pursue medicine. Neither of these categories excludes being a good physician, in my view. At the same time, being a physician requires a lot of test-taking, which could be tough on the first group.

I've met some DO students, however, that don't fall into these categories at all; they were truly good students and test takers who like the DO philosophy. Hats off to them for sticking to their proverbial guns. At the school close to my undergraduate institution, VCOM, there were some impressive people who could've gone MD if they wanted to.

In terms of practicing DO's, it seems like patients often prefer them. They seem more like normal people; in many ways, I think they actually may be more like normal people on average. Whether or not this translates into good doctoring is debatable.

Good luck in school.

 

[78222]

You cared enough to reply, douchebag.

I've met some really sharp DO's, at both the student and professional level. It seems to me like DO classes are either made up of people that are poor test-takers, or people that screwed around in school without direction only to make the decision to pursue medicine. Neither of these categories excludes being a good physician, in my view. At the same time, being a physician requires a lot of test-taking, which could be tough on the first group.

I've met some DO students, however, that don't fall into these categories at all; they were truly good students and test takers who like the DO philosophy. Hats off to them for sticking to their proverbial guns. At the school close to my undergraduate institution, VCOM, there were some impressive people who could've gone MD if they wanted to.

In terms of practicing DO's, it seems like patients often prefer them. They seem more like normal people; in many ways, I think they actually may be more like normal people on average. Whether or not this translates into good doctoring is debatable.

Good luck in school.

Why the name calling? I was just telling the OP i have no specific like or dislike for DO's.

 

[tucomnvms1]

Thanks for the input guys, i feel the same way... DO/MD both doctors

-Dave

 

[happydays]

Did you really expect someone to say "I think DO's are about as worthless as the scum on the bottom of my shoes"?

 

[dajimmers]

Did you really expect someone to say "I think DO's are about as worthless as the scum on the bottom of my shoes"?

Well I was going to, until you made me second guess myself...

I don't think it's fair to make generalized opinions of the two groups (MDs and DOs) as a whole. There is such a range of people at both that saying "MDs are X and DOs are Y" is ridiculous stereotyping. I'm not saying they aren't, on average, different groups: student statistics, mission statements, and % going into certain specialties will tell you that. But opinions like "DOs are lesser or less-committed doctors" or "MDs like research and not the patient" make assumptions that are often untrue.

I just graduated from Michigan State, which conveniently has both an MD and a DO school. The whole gamut of opinions you could have about either group is true of certain students, but not of either group in whole. Some DO students are there b/c they didn't get MD. Some like the philosophy, some think it's rubbish. Some want family practice, others want derm. Some MD students think the DOs are lazy, others second-guess choosing MD over DO, while most are too busy becoming MDs or DOs to care about the differences. They do make fun of eachother in jest, though.

 

[Brickhouse]

I think DO is harder. They have to take two board exams. One nearly killed me. And I feel like they get better physDx training.

 

[mdage]

I think DO is harder. They have to take two board exams. One nearly killed me. And I feel like they get better physDx training.

I think USMLE is optional for DO students. But I do agree DO has more work...because they have to learn whatever MD students have to learn plus OMM.

 

[Pewl]

Dammit will someone please hurry up and start a flame war already?? This is getting boring! I'll start us off. MD's like to lure little children into their basements for the purposes of boudoir photography while DO's like to hire Mexican strippers to strangle them while they masturbate.

 

[kirexhana]

Dammit will someone please hurry up and start a flame war already?? This is getting boring! I'll start us off. MD's like to lure little children into their basements for the purposes of boudoir photography while DO's like to hire Mexican strippers to strangle them while they masturbate.

dude, isn't it too early in the morning to be exercising your liver?

 

[want2beadoc]

Dammit will someone please hurry up and start a flame war already?? This is getting boring! I'll start us off. MD's like to lure little children into their basements for the purposes of boudoir photography while DO's like to hire Mexican strippers to strangle them while they masturbate.

You ruined the Mexican standoff.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

DO's are MD rejects. Sad but true. LOLZ.

 

[laboholic]

What is a DO again?

 

[Dr Who]

DO's are doctors, enough said!
Although that hydroxycut commercial guy does gives DO's and docotrs in general a bad name.

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[USArmyDoc]

DO's are MD rejects. Sad but true. LOLZ.

Not all true...go to the DO forum....a lot of us interviewed and were accepted to MD schools and decided on DO...

 

[cfdavid]

DO's are doctors, enough said!
Although that hydroxycut commercial guy does gives DO's and docotrs in general a bad name.

[/URL][/IMG]

Yes, but you'll recall the MD from Yale also in one of the commercials. The DO dude just had better abs!!

 

[cfdavid]

As a soon to be MD student, I'll always support the DO camp. I was accepted to two DO schools, but it wasn't the degree that made me choose MD, but rather money and proximity to family etc. etc. (also, the school I'll be attending has super clinical experiences)

The MD/DO thing is mostly a pre-med issue. We'll all be pro's on the wards, and the buck will stop at a DO, just as it will an MD. I'm from a big DO state, and I know a fair amount of DO's. And at least in the family practice setting, personality really is key. I recently asked an office manager of a mixed practice of MD's and DO's (good friend of the family) which doc was in the highest demand. All were great docs according to her. But, she said that Dr.X (a DO) was most sought after because of a very dynamic personality and friendly attitude.

As a non-trad (and many other non-trads will attest to the same), personality and the ability to work well with others (nurses and doctor colleagues, as well as families of patients etc...) is very big. So, whether you're going the MD or DO route, just keep that in mind.

Good luck in your future there OP!

 

[LO281OK]

Not all true...go to the DO forum....a lot of us interviewed and were accepted to MD schools and decided on DO...

You've been baited...

 

[sentrosi]

I worked with a DO one summer way back in high school. He was as competent as (or maybe more competent than) any of the other doctors in his department.

I was considering DO for a while.

 

[EvoDevo]

You cared enough to reply, douchebag.

He who flings mud...

No name calling, dude. Either play nice or I'll put you in your room for a time out.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

Oh no! Not another MD/DO thread! There is (or was) a sticky on the pre-med forum about this very subject since it is such a common SDN subject.

Anyway, the official SDN position is the same as mine: MDs and DOs go through 99% the same education and make 100% equal doctors in every way. Some may argue that DO schools are more tilted to primary care while MD schools are better for bench research, but even these supposed differences are minor. It all depends on the given individual going through the program.





Well, except for the fact that MD students are so freakin cool that it's like a 4-year-long MTV beach party while DO students like to fling their own poo. But again, minor differences.

 

[Taus]

Oh no! Not another MD/DO thread! There is (or was) a sticky on the pre-med forum about this very subject since it is such a common SDN subject.

Anyway, the official SDN position is the same as mine: MDs and DOs go through 99% the same education and make 100% equal doctors in every way. Some may argue that DO schools are more tilted to primary care while MD schools are better for bench research, but even these supposed differences are minor. It all depends on the given individual going through the program.





Well, except for the fact that MD students are so freakin cool that it's like a 4-year-long MTV beach party while DO students like to fling their own poo. But again, minor differences.

i beg to differ about the flinging poo......don't knock it till you've tried it....haven't you ever seen the video clip w/ the monkeys in it?

 

[Northerner]

He who flings mud...

No name calling, dude. Either play nice or I'll put you in your room for a time out.

Since when does the title of "Moderator" entitle stark condescension? Perhaps threats are better suited for the avenue of PMs.

I'll refer to the well-leafed copy of the TOS that sits beside me at all times....

 

[erasable]

What is a DO again?

:3 Desk Officer (NYPD)

 

[erasable]

Dammit will someone please hurry up and start a flame war already?? This is getting boring! I'll start us off. MD's like to lure little children into their basements for the purposes of boudoir photography while DO's like to hire Mexican strippers to strangle them while they masturbate.

I think a flame war would be hilarious. Kudos to the matyr who finally says "I'm an elitist prick who thinks the world begins and ends with MDs." or "Snobbish MDs should know their place and /stay/ in the lab."

 

[Cinnameg]

dude, isn't it too early in the morning to be exercising your liver?

I looked at your application profile and I just have a question for you . . . how on earth are you applying to medical school at age 19? How'd you pull that one off?

 

[Brickhouse]

I looked at your application profile and I just have a question for you . . . how on earth are you applying to medical school at age 19? How'd you pull that one off?

oh man now you've really started it. now we'll have to all sit around and read her yawn-fest story about how brilliant she is that she bypassed the tedium that the other 95% of us have to endure, etc. etc. etc. I mean do you really care?


LOL I love this thread now. I have found an outlet for my post-board bitterness at last.

 

[tucomnvms1]

Hey people calm down! I was trying my best to be able to ask that question without starting a flame war.. I saw some nasty comments but I am not going to reply to them... I just seriously wanted to know some opinions, i don't want to compare the two..

 

[Brickhouse]

Hey people calm down! I was trying my best to be able to ask that question without starting a flame war.. I saw some nasty comments but I am not going to reply to them... I just seriously wanted to know some opinions, i don't want to compare the two..

that's so something a DO would say....

 

[Dr. Weebs]

DO's are MD rejects. Sad but true. LOLZ.

Agreed.

I'll say what was being baited for in this thread: DO's for the most part are students who couldn't get into MD schools. There, ya happy? Sure, there are always exceptions. But, the admissions standards academically for DO schools are far below that of most MD programs. Thus, people who couldn't get into a US MD program very very often ask the question "Should I try DO or try overseas?".

Average MCAT scores for MD schools are near 30 and on an uptrend (29.6-29.9 from 1999-2004), whereas DO schools are between 24-25 and are decreasing every year (gone from 25.28-24.57 from 1999-2003). DO schools also turn a blind eye to classes that were re-taken. MD schools take an average. So, not only are the GPA's accepted to DO schools lower (3.4 vs. 3.6), but they are inflated. If someone flunked a class, retook it and got an A, that class would count as a 4.0 at the DO school, but a 2.0 at the MD school. Everyone wants to be PC and say they're all the same. Well, I'm not PC. DO schools are WAY easier to get into. The average DO acceptee wouldn't stand a chance at getting into an MD program in the US. Say they're the same all you want. People can talk themselves into anything. Data doesn't lie.

THAT SAID... The acceptance data has nothing to do with what is actually taught at the school. The typical DO student obviously had undergrad/MCAT struggles, but that may or may not affect how they end up as a doctor. We've all met the Harvard 4.0 Phi Beta Kappa M.D. genius who was the worst doctor you've ever met. There are exceptions everywhere. I've met some DO's that were great docs, and had a great reputation within the hospital I work at. I'm sure that for the most part, DO's are very competent docs... otherwise they'd all get sued and banned from practicing.

However, as someone who has a lot more knowledge about the selection process for DO's than the average layperson, I would personally ask for an MD to take care of me, unless I knew some specific information about the DO docs that were an option. I don't know if I would want someone who got an inflated 3.2GPA, a 19 on the MCAT, then retook it, studied their butt off and then still only got a 23, and then got accepted into a DO school because they brought their MCAT UP to a 23, taking care of me...

Nothing personal. Just honesty. You can't ignore the admissions data. It is a reality that people like to pretend doesn't exist to be peaceful and PC.
I hope every DO student out there becomes the best doc ever. We need more good doctors, and MD schools aren't the only place where they can come from.

http://www.medschoolready.com/app/gpaMCAT.asp

 

[Hard24Get]

In general, when I see a DO go to an osteopathic residency and practice osteopathic medicine, it engenders a lot more respect than if you are an osteopath pursuing/in an allopathic residency. Because if you believed in the osteopathic philosophy, you would not kill yourself to cross over to allopathy unless you had a HUGE change of heart or only became a DO because you were rejected from MD school.

That being said, every new colleague has an equal opportunity for me to think they are an idiot or (more rarely) a genius.

Agreed.

I'll say what was being baited for in this thread: DO's for the most part are students who couldn't get into MD schools. There, ya happy? Sure, there are always exceptions. But, the admissions standards academically for DO schools are far below that of most MD programs. Thus, people who couldn't get into a US MD program very very often ask the question "Should I try DO or try overseas?".

Average MCAT scores for MD schools are near 30 and on an uptrend (29.6-29.9 from 1999-2004), whereas DO schools are between 24-25 and are decreasing every year (gone from 25.28-24.57 from 1999-2003). DO schools also turn a blind eye to classes that were re-taken. MD schools take an average. So, not only are the GPA's accepted to DO schools lower (3.4 vs. 3.6), but they are inflated. If someone flunked a class, retook it and got an A, that class would count as a 4.0 at the DO school, but a 2.0 at the MD school. Everyone wants to be PC and say they're all the same. Well, I'm not PC. DO schools are WAY easier to get into. The average DO acceptee wouldn't stand a chance at getting into an MD program in the US. Say they're the same all you want. People can talk themselves into anything. Data doesn't lie.

THAT SAID... The acceptance data has nothing to do with what is actually taught at the school. The typical DO student obviously had undergrad/MCAT struggles, but that may or may not affect how they end up as a doctor. We've all met the Harvard 4.0 Phi Beta Kappa M.D. genius who was the worst doctor you've ever met. There are exceptions everywhere. I've met some DO's that were great docs, and had a great reputation within the hospital I work at. I'm sure that for the most part, DO's are very competent docs... otherwise they'd all get sued and banned from practicing.

However, as someone who has a lot more knowledge about the selection process for DO's than the average layperson, I would personally ask for an MD to take care of me, unless I knew some specific information about the DO docs that were an option. I don't know if I would want someone who got an inflated 3.2GPA, a 19 on the MCAT, then retook it, studied their butt off and then still only got a 23, and then got accepted into a DO school because they brought their MCAT UP to a 23, taking care of me...

Nothing personal. Just honesty. You can't ignore the admissions data. It is a reality that people like to pretend doesn't exist to be peaceful and PC.
I hope every DO student out there becomes the best doc ever. We need more good doctors, and MD schools aren't the only place where they can come from.

http://www.medschoolready.com/app/gpaMCAT.asp

 

[Dimoak]

I don't know if I would want someone who got an inflated 3.2GPA, a 19 on the MCAT, then retook it, studied their butt off and then still only got a 23, and then got accepted into a DO school because they brought their MCAT UP to a 23, taking care of me...

Nothing personal. Just honesty.

Hey, I agree with prettymuch most of what you said, but would an individual's UG GPA and MCAT score really be a factor in your confidence in a practitioner? If this individual is practicing a certain speciality, chances are that their USMLE and board scores weren't all that bad, or atleast good enough to land a particular specialty. Their grades would also have to be up to par as well. I mean, I understand that you were speaking hypothetically in terms of just numbers, but I thought that quote could be a bit misleading

 

[chocomorsel]

Hey, I agree with prettymuch most of what you said, but would an individual's UG GPA and MCAT score really be a factor in your confidence in a practitioner? If this individual is practicing a certain speciality, chances are that their USMLE and board scores weren't all that bad, or atleast good enough to land a particular specialty. Their grades would also have to be up to par as well. I mean, I understand that you were speaking hypothetically in terms of just numbers, but I thought that quote could be a bit misleading

I was thinking the exact same thing. Seriously, once you are in medical school, you are in the same boat as everyone else, so undergrad becomes almost irrelevant. Who really gives a s***. I'm here now and If I was a DO student and can get accepted to any of the residencies that an MD can get accepted into, that means I busted my ass just as hard on boards. And not all MD candidates are stellar either. I personally don't care one way or the other. They are both doctors of medicine. And I'm an MD student.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

In general, when I see a DO go to an osteopathic residency and practice osteopathic medicine, it engenders a lot more respect than if you are an osteopath pursuing/in an allopathic residency. Because if you believed in the osteopathic philosophy, you would not kill yourself to cross over to allopathy unless you had a HUGE change of heart or only became a DO because you were rejected from MD school.

That being said, every new colleague has an equal opportunity for me to think they are an idiot or (more rarely) a genius.

I can see theoretically why you hold this opinion, but it really doesn't make sense, especially once you realize that there are huge differences between osteopathic and allopathic residencies that go way beyond osteopathic philosophy. For one, osteopathic residencies are sort of underfunded and aren't growing at all -- they're certainly not growing anywhere near fast enough to meet the growing enrollment in osteopathic schools. Two, there are virtually no osteopathic residencies in the west coast. If you don't want to be in Philadelphia, Michigan, Ohio, or Oklahoma, you're sort of screwed. Three, some specialties are way underreprested in the osteopathic world. For example, there are all of two psychiatry osteopathic residencies. Four, osteopathic residencies aren't usually at major research hospitals, and instead are at community hospitals. So, in sum, just because a student opts to pursue an allopathic residency doesn't mean he/she was less committed to osteopathic principles.

 

[SoCuteMD]

I for one will say I don't think about it. I think the DOs and (more accurately) DO candidates think about it a lot more than MDs or MD candidates. With that said, I've liked every DO I've ever been a patient of (n=2) but I haven't liked every MD I've ever been a patient of (n=??, but greater than 2). Statistical power of my comparison study sucks.

 

[Doc Oc]

I don't mind if a patient wants to choose an MD, for whatever reason. If they are most comfortable with an MD, they should see one. As a rule, if a patient has some sort of bias in their physician selection, and seeing someone who fulfills their criteria makes them more compliant and less worried about their quality of care, then go for it. There are enough patients for all of us. Besides, patients have alot of biases that are probably more common than specifically asking for "not a DO".

Ever had patients who:

Only want to see a female for their pelvic exam.

Only want to see a female for their rectal exam.

Only want to see a male or an ugly female for their rectal exam. (true story)

Only want to see doctors who have some gray hair.

Refuse to see residents.

Prefer the doc who is from their hometown, region, etc.

Don't like it when docs wear white coats.

Don't like it when docs don't wear white coats.

Asks the doc if they are Christian before allowing them to proceed.

It goes on and on, and the point is, although all of this stuff probably doesn't affect quality of care, it does affect the patient's perception of such. I tend to just go along with it.

 

[USArmyDoc]

You've been baited...

My bad.....

 

[erasable]

I don't mind if a patient wants to choose an MD, for whatever reason. If they are most comfortable with an MD, they should see one. As a rule, if a patient has some sort of bias in their physician selection, and seeing someone who fulfills their criteria makes them more compliant and less worried about their quality of care, then go for it. There are enough patients for all of us. Besides, patients have alot of biases that are probably more common than specifically asking for "not a DO".

You seem to be basing your statement on the assumption that patients /have/ a choice in their physician. When non-MDs are given the same rights as MDs, underfunded clinics (ex. student health clinics) stock their physicians with non-MDs, taking the choice away from the patient.

Disclaimer: That said. I respect ODs as full fledged physicians and recognize that there is some debate over which came first osteopathic doctors or allopathic and some debate over which is better.

 

[Faraaz23]

However, as someone who has a lot more knowledge about the selection process for DO's than the average layperson, I would personally ask for an MD to take care of me, unless I knew some specific information about the DO docs that were an option. I don't know if I would want someone who got an inflated 3.2GPA, a 19 on the MCAT, then retook it, studied their butt off and then still only got a 23, and then got accepted into a DO school because they brought their MCAT UP to a 23, taking care of me...

This brings up an interesting point. I agree with DocOc that i don't care if a patient will decide to go to an MD instead of me (cuz i know I got much higher than the 23 you mentioned ), but where do you draw the line? As we all know, some of the lower tier allo schools accept students with lower marks as well. I'm REALLY not trying to offend anyone or cause a flame war of any kind, but it is true that some allo schools will offer admission to students with lower scores because of certain geographical/racial/other demographics. I agree that as a whole DO schools have lower admission requirements than the MD's as a whole... but what about the individual allopathic schools who will accept people with under 25? Do you think you would try to find out where a physician went to school before you pick them?

I see your point, and my family and I are just as guilty of this as you. However, we don't look at the MD or DO, as long as its either one of those and not a mid-level. Instead, we always find out where a doctor did their residency/fellowship at, or which if any academic institution they are currently working at. I'd argue that this may be a better indicator (though still not accurate in many cases) of how knowledgeable or skilled of a physician the person is rather than school.

 

[dajimmers]

If it's "who is a better doctor" we're trying to figure out, I think the best option is to standardize what makes a good doctor. Hey, it works for the SAT and MCAT !

So, every doctor's id badge now has to include:

Patient happiness index
Lawsuit rate
Number of mistakes on record
Numbers of times performing procedure X, Y, Z...
Counter of number of hours awake and hours worked per week
etc.
Overall grade in big red letters.

 

[braluk]

the turnaround for DO schools will come with time, and eventually rise in numbers relatively comparable to MD. BEcause MD seems to carry a historical weight to it, people will tend to "stick with what has been known and what has worked". DO, seems to be much more relatively new, and even more popular now that alternative medicine are a viable option at the behest of desperate patients when traditional medicine is either too costly, detrimental, unavailable, or "just doesn't work". It seems to me, the competitive atmosphere for DOs is also on the rise, and have heard about applicants with MD-like scores, to be rejected from DO schools. That said, I feel that by the time most of us are fully practicing doctors, and with the ominous forecast of doctor shortages, DO institutions will start to rise in number and in admissions medians. It seems to me that while many MD schools want to hold their prestige of low admissions, with AAMC suggesting an increase in allopathic admissions by as much as 30% to match shortages, osteopathic medicine seems to be in the upswing of higher admission numbers, and an expansion (again just conjecture). Whatever the case may be, I am extremely tired, and going to go to the bathroom now for my morning poo.

 

[Hard24Get]

Hey, I didn't know that about DO residencies! I actually learned something on SDN today!

Ok, then I retract my original statement for that reason.

I can see theoretically why you hold this opinion, but it really doesn't make sense, especially once you realize that there are huge differences between osteopathic and allopathic residencies that go way beyond osteopathic philosophy. For one, osteopathic residencies are sort of underfunded and aren't growing at all -- they're certainly not growing anywhere near fast enough to meet the growing enrollment in osteopathic schools. Two, there are virtually no osteopathic residencies in the west coast. If you don't want to be in Philadelphia, Michigan, Ohio, or Oklahoma, you're sort of screwed. Three, some specialties are way underreprested in the osteopathic world. For example, there are all of two psychiatry osteopathic residencies. Four, osteopathic residencies aren't usually at major research hospitals, and instead are at community hospitals. So, in sum, just because a student opts to pursue an allopathic residency doesn't mean he/she was less committed to osteopathic principles.

 

[AngryBaby]

If it's "who is a better doctor" we're trying to figure out, I think the best option is to standardize what makes a good doctor. Hey, it works for the SAT and MCAT !

So, every doctor's id badge now has to include:

Patient happiness index
Lawsuit rate
Number of mistakes on record
Numbers of times performing procedure X, Y, Z...
Counter of number of hours awake and hours worked per week
etc.
Overall grade in big red letters.

Dude, that's awesome. I'm so down with that.

 

[PhDtoDO]

What if an osteopathic doctor did an allopathic residency because her preferred speciality wasn't available in DO programs? And she is a researcher who got the OMM bug and wanted to expand her medical training? And she did get into MD programs and turned them down?

Just a thought...

Perhaps best not to make assumptions.


PhDtoDO
TUCOM-MA 2010
Future Med/Peds/ID Resident
(and HIV specialist/researcher)

In general, when I see a DO go to an osteopathic residency and practice osteopathic medicine, it engenders a lot more respect than if you are an osteopath pursuing/in an allopathic residency. Because if you believed in the osteopathic philosophy, you would not kill yourself to cross over to allopathy unless you had a HUGE change of heart or only became a DO because you were rejected from MD school.

That being said, every new colleague has an equal opportunity for me to think they are an idiot or (more rarely) a genius.

 

[AmyO]

Agreed.

I'll say what was being baited for in this thread: DO's for the most part are students who couldn't get into MD schools. There, ya happy? Sure, there are always exceptions. But, the admissions standards academically for DO schools are far below that of most MD programs. Thus, people who couldn't get into a US MD program very very often ask the question "Should I try DO or try overseas?".

Average MCAT scores for MD schools are near 30 and on an uptrend (29.6-29.9 from 1999-2004), whereas DO schools are between 24-25 and are decreasing every year (gone from 25.28-24.57 from 1999-2003). DO schools also turn a blind eye to classes that were re-taken. MD schools take an average. So, not only are the GPA's accepted to DO schools lower (3.4 vs. 3.6), but they are inflated. If someone flunked a class, retook it and got an A, that class would count as a 4.0 at the DO school, but a 2.0 at the MD school. Everyone wants to be PC and say they're all the same. Well, I'm not PC. DO schools are WAY easier to get into. The average DO acceptee wouldn't stand a chance at getting into an MD program in the US. Say they're the same all you want. People can talk themselves into anything. Data doesn't lie.

THAT SAID... The acceptance data has nothing to do with what is actually taught at the school. The typical DO student obviously had undergrad/MCAT struggles, but that may or may not affect how they end up as a doctor. We've all met the Harvard 4.0 Phi Beta Kappa M.D. genius who was the worst doctor you've ever met. There are exceptions everywhere. I've met some DO's that were great docs, and had a great reputation within the hospital I work at. I'm sure that for the most part, DO's are very competent docs... otherwise they'd all get sued and banned from practicing.

However, as someone who has a lot more knowledge about the selection process for DO's than the average layperson, I would personally ask for an MD to take care of me, unless I knew some specific information about the DO docs that were an option. I don't know if I would want someone who got an inflated 3.2GPA, a 19 on the MCAT, then retook it, studied their butt off and then still only got a 23, and then got accepted into a DO school because they brought their MCAT UP to a 23, taking care of me...

Nothing personal. Just honesty. You can't ignore the admissions data. It is a reality that people like to pretend doesn't exist to be peaceful and PC.
I hope every DO student out there becomes the best doc ever. We need more good doctors, and MD schools aren't the only place where they can come from.

http://www.medschoolready.com/app/gpaMCAT.asp

What about the pass/fail schools??? I mean you really don't want a doc that just "passed" his medical school classes when you could have someone that "honored"! Gotta add that to the nametag.

 

[erasable]

What about the pass/fail schools??? I mean you really don't want a doc that just "passed" his medical school classes when you could have someone that "honored"! Gotta add that to the nametag.

Sorry to disappoint you, but doc's don't "just pass". Students in allopathic sch's are ranked all their years in med sch (rare exception is UMich)

 

[Dr. Weebs]

the turnaround for DO schools will come with time, and eventually rise in numbers relatively comparable to MD. BEcause MD seems to carry a historical weight to it, people will tend to "stick with what has been known and what has worked". DO, seems to be much more relatively new, and even more popular now that alternative medicine are a viable option at the behest of desperate patients when traditional medicine is either too costly, detrimental, unavailable, or "just doesn't work". It seems to me, the competitive atmosphere for DOs is also on the rise, and have heard about applicants with MD-like scores, to be rejected from DO schools. That said, I feel that by the time most of us are fully practicing doctors, and with the ominous forecast of doctor shortages, DO institutions will start to rise in number and in admissions medians. It seems to me that while many MD schools want to hold their prestige of low admissions, with AAMC suggesting an increase in allopathic admissions by as much as 30% to match shortages, osteopathic medicine seems to be in the upswing of higher admission numbers, and an expansion (again just conjecture). Whatever the case may be, I am extremely tired, and going to go to the bathroom now for my morning poo.

Sorry. I have to put my 2 cents in here... mainly because I hate it when people spout off a bunch of crap with no facts to back it up (as you like to call it "conjecture"). Especially when they're totally wrong, and the statistics to show that were posted before on this board.

First of all, DO's MCAT scores have been on the decline since 1999.
Also, MD's don't reject people and keep their class size low to hold prestige of low admissions... that's ridiculous. When a school with 100 spots has 5000 applicants, they want to take the people who will succeed in medical school and make more than competent doctors. They've got their pick essentially. So, obviously someone with a 24MCAT has almost no chance at getting into their program if 500 people with 30+ scores and better GPA's also applied. This is just really funny to me... MD programs purposely reject people to seem prestigious... where do you get crap like that? MD programs are expanding their class sizes, just slowly. It takes time to expand class size while keeping the QUALITY of education the same... you can't do 30% in one year, that's ludicrous.

I'd rather see facts than conjecture on a topic like this... You seem rather biased towards DO while being completely uninformed... Are you a DO student?

Just a reminder. I believe DO's can be great docs too. I don't think MD docs or the MD philosophy are better than DO's in an any type of innate sense. Not at all. I just think the applicants selected to become MD's are far superior academically. That is all I'm saying.

Conject on...