What do you do in an inpatient setting to resolve teenagers SI?

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shahseh22

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Hi,
I have been encountering some pretty borderline pts on my inpatient child service. It's been very challenging communicating with their outpatient providers (who have been doing DBT) and pushy parents. In a short inpatient stay, all I am doing is supportive therapy and starting an SSRI, which is all I really know how to do. However, I'm getting painted like the bad guy for not doing anything more than that. Any tips for what I can say or do?

Thanks

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Hi,
I have been encountering some pretty borderline pts on my inpatient child service. It's been very challenging communicating with their outpatient providers (who have been doing DBT) and pushy parents. In a short inpatient stay, all I am doing is supportive therapy and starting an SSRI, which is all I really know how to do. However, I'm getting painted like the bad guy for not doing anything more than that. Any tips for what I can say or do?

Thanks

1) Are you positive about the diagnosis? BPD in adolescents can obviously be very real but I have seen some people fall into the trap of diagnosing this based on a teenager being moody, having a trauma history, and cutting themselves. That is not adequate.

2) Has the patient and their parents been told they have BPD and been provided appropriate psychoeducation? All specialized treatments for BPD start with this piece, but I recognize it is a difficult conversation to have. Note that this psychoeducation should include clear discussion of how SI is likely to be a recurring and chronic thing, at least for a while. I have noticed many child people are deeply uncomfortable saying things like this, which is fair enough but can lead to unrealistic expectations.

3) Are her outpatient providers actually doing DBT, or are they just teaching DBT skills or doing "DBT-informed care"? If they are doing actual, real-deal adherent DBT they have had the above conversation with the parents and child. In that case the parents may be taking out their misgivings and frustrations with their child's condition and treatment course on you. If they haven't had this conversation before the outpatient providers are not doing DBT.

4) You will not make the teenager free of suicidal thoughts during this hospitalization if BPD is the true diagnosis. This cannot be the treatment goal - even DBT is not fantastic at eliminating suicidan suicidan thoughts (although it is effective at reducing suicidan behaviors), and this is over the course of a year of intensive work!

5) sometimes we as MDs have more risk tolerance than other clinicians and are better suited to saying "they may kill themselves, but at this point nothing we do in the hospital will make this less likely or be protective." Your average child counselor who works with angry trauma kids and depranxious kids may not be up to this task.
 
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Technically BPD isn't supposed to be diagnosed until someone is age 18 but this is DSM IV,V rules that don't clinically deal with real world situations.

Of course people under the age of 18 have BPD (or BPD like problems, just that we're getting into a sticky issue saying they have BPD at such a young age).

A teen could be suicidal for real that has nothing to do with BPD.

But sticking to the BPD (cause this is what I sense is where you want to go) this really should be dealt with, IMHO, DBT techniques.
It's a real shame those techniques aren't actively taught in most residencies I've seen.

Treating BPD issues goes against what's taught in most residencies, where medications are being heavily emphasized. E.g. patient is suicidal and this word pops up all MDs want to put the patient in the hospital despite the obvious that many with BPD have chronic suicidal ideation but could be safe in society. So you put the patient in the hospital, they're medicated with something that doesn't treat BPD, and discharged despite that the SI wasn't even improved but the patient was taught to deny having SI so they can simply get out of the hospital. (This is an issue Marsha Linehan has addressed but I hardly ever seeing it addressed in psych departments).

Many of those patients could be discharged but should be set up with very good therapy.

Now here's a problem I never was able to figure out. What if the person really has severe BPD, are chronically suicidal for real (in severe BPD they really could be severely suicidal). So what to do then? Especially if they're stuck into a facility where there's no DBT offered?

I've seen it happen and I hate it.
 
Technically BPD isn't supposed to be diagnosed until someone is age 18 but this is DSM IV,V rules that don't clinically deal with real world situations.

Actually if the symptoms have been stable for over a year you can most certainly make this diagnosis under 18. Lots of reason to be very wary of doing so and ultra-rigorous about it, but is not actually disallowed. This is a general myth about diagnosing personality disorders.
 
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Actually if the symptoms have been stable for over a year you can most certainly make this diagnosis under 18. Lots of reason to be very early of doing so and ultra-rigorous about it, but is not actually disallowed. This is a general myth about diagnosing personality disorders.
Yeah, this myth always stumped me since the DSM explicitly states that all personality disorders except ASPD can be diagnosed under 18 and even provides guidelines for doing so.
 
Tangentially, is the following accurate: it was my understanding (based on reading and very limited clinical exposure) that in BPD attempting suicide is a goal-oriented behavior, without intent to end their lives but rather to achieve personal or social goals (e.g. SO tries to leave them, they make a suicide attempt, SO is guilted into coming back). And that while they are at significant risk of completing suicide that outcome is generally accidental, such as a method more lethal than anticipated or delay in discovery/medical care.
 
The suicidal ideation can be one of a number of things. BPDs suffer from chronic dysphoria, heightened sensitivity to emotions both good and bad (hence the total love and total hate that sometimes happen), but manipulation as you brought up is also an issue.

It's too simplistic to pigeon-hole the suicidal ideation as simply just the manipulation aspect although that is a possibility. Also BPDs are at higher risk for an Axis I mood disorder where they really could be suicidal for a non-BPD reason.

With any good treatment you're going to have to be thorough in trying to understand the patient before determining the motivation for their SI. If it is manipulation, not giving into the manipulation is usually the treatment choice, but you got to do work to be confident of that.
 
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Tangentially, is the following accurate: it was my understanding (based on reading and very limited clinical exposure) that in BPD attempting suicide is a goal-oriented behavior, without intent to end their lives but rather to achieve personal or social goals (e.g. SO tries to leave them, they make a suicide attempt, SO is guilted into coming back). And that while they are at significant risk of completing suicide that outcome is generally accidental, such as a method more lethal than anticipated or delay in discovery/medical care.

While parasuicidal behaviors in BPD probably can be analyzed as playing a functional role in some sense (e.g. a really dysfunctional bid for attachment) and in some circumstances, this idea that BPD suicide attempts are "not serious" is very pernicious. The SI is very real and the proportion of people who meet criteria for BPD who ultimately kill themselves is pretty high (depending on estimates, ~10%, which you will note is not that much lower than more "severe" mental illnesses).

You do, however, need to separate out suicide attempts from impulsive self-harming behaviors that have some outward resemblance to a suicide attempt. When someone swallows six tylenol impulsively or ten Vistaril, this should probably not be thought of as a suicide attempt. If they finish the bottle, even if we know that the particular substance is unlikely to be lethal in overdose, that's a different question.

To work with this population effectively you simply have to accept that there is a very good chance that any given patient might complete suicide. If you are not okay with that, I would definitely refer out if at all possible, because changing that is a very long and involved process.

Now here's a problem I never was able to figure out. What if the person really has severe BPD, are chronically suicidal for real (in severe BPD they really could be severely suicidal). So what to do then? Especially if they're stuck into a facility where there's no DBT offered?

I've seen it happen and I hate it.


Here's how you do it:

"Patient X is at chronically elevated risk for self-injury as a result of [list the many, many risk factors that are not directly addressed by being locked on a psych ward]. Unfortunately the nature of their condition requires intensive and specialized psychotherapeutic interventions over a prolonged period of time that are simply unavailable in an inpatient setting. The treatment options that are available to us in an acute inpatient setting are highly unlikely to modify these risk factors. There is significant reason to believe that continued hospitalization will be countertherapeutic, and indeed since being admitted the patient has demonstrated this by [insert the regressive behaviors that have probably taken place at this point]. There is a serious and substantial risk of iatrogenic harm should we continue to hospitalize Patient X, and in the setting of minimal expected benefits for continued inpatient hospitalization, we feel that psychiatric discharge is imperative at this time. It is unfortunately the case that there remains a substantial chance that Patient X will self-injure again in the future, but short of incarceration for life, at this time we cannot prevent this. Patient X will need to develop the ability to tolerate their distress in the community and they will not able to develop these skills while in an acute locked inpatient setting. We expect that Patient X will seek hospitalization again in the future and will target brief hospitalizations for acute crisis management only to avoid further iatrogenic harm. Aftercare was arranged with _, crisis resources were provided and discussed with patient, safety plan was completed, blahblahblah"
 
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There's some research showing that the BPD diagnosis is reliable at age 12 or older.

Also, I agree that you probably aren't going to be able to effectively treat the symptoms in an inpatient setting, especially given that, according to research on the topic, acute hospitalization in many cases is not effective for suicidality. In the Psychology board, we were just talking about research showing that one of the reasons DBT may be effective is because it reduces hospitalizations.
 
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