What do you guys think of Jordan Peterson?

[WisNeuro]

Wisneuro is a lady.

I did indeed win the Ms. Relay for Life Beauty contest two years in a row at my Alma Mater.

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[barbatenussapientes]

except that's not at all how it went (which you would know if you had looked into it further). the kids were being taunted by some black isrealites and were defending their black classmate and defending trump from gay slurs when the drummer (who no one was messing with) walked into the crowd of kids, got in the face of the young man in the picture, and banged his drum in the kid's face

smirking was a perfectly acceptable response

Eh, this isn't exactly how it went. The drummer was in front of the crowd and it ended up closing around him.

I personally feel like this situation is a perfect personification of the current discourse; it is getting weaponized by media and politics to fit their narratives. I felt like the students actually acted fairly well in response to the attacks of the Black Israelites. They initially ignored it, then rallied together to do some school chants. I also do not think that they were necessarily mal-intentioned toward the drummer - insensitive in ways and not grasping the context. He was a single individual who then got crowded around by a hundred people, it would be hard to not feel threatened especially if you had differing opinions.

As for the drummer, I don't know his intention. It may have been to bring peace or it may have been to make a demonstration. He was the end of a march and sees a group of people wearing MAGA hats. It would not be unexpected (or wrong) for him to stand in front of them at an appropriate distance and continue to drum/chant as he likely had for portions of the march. All of that seems consistent with their purpose of the day.

Now, given the context of all of that, it seems like this is a perfect opportunity for dialogue. A chance for the high school kids to learn about the ways in which they could have been more respectful to the situation and understanding the context (standing around one individual, yelling, jumping, dancing etc. can easily be interpreted as threatening, and will most certainly be seen as disrespectful). To teach the way we can have differing opinions and still have amicable discussion/demonstration. But, instead, it gets weaponized to tell the stories that either side wants it to tell.

Crucifying high school kids for acting immature/insensitive does not do any good. If we can't take the time to teach the kids of our nation how to have productive and healthy debate/demonstration, then how can we expect them to grow into adults that will do so. However, I also do not think it is right to absolve them of any responsibility. Intentioned or not - insensitivity and not realizing the context/power differential is still wrong. But that was a lesson many of us had to learn (are still learning); to have awareness of the way our personal factors and the contextual factors can affect another individual. But, since we don't possess those traits in our public discourse among adults, I doubt we're going to successfully teach that to kids.

 

[deleted480308]

Eh, this isn't exactly how it went. The drummer was in front of the crowd and it ended up closing around him.

I personally feel like this situation is a perfect personification of the current discourse; it is getting weaponized by media and politics to fit their narratives. I felt like the students actually acted fairly well in response to the attacks of the Black Israelites. They initially ignored it, then rallied together to do some school chants. I also do not think that they were necessarily mal-intentioned toward the drummer - insensitive in ways and not grasping the context. He was a single individual who then got crowded around by a hundred people, it would be hard to not feel threatened especially if you had differing opinions.

As for the drummer, I don't know his intention. It may have been to bring peace or it may have been to make a demonstration. He was the end of a march and sees a group of people wearing MAGA hats. It would not be unexpected (or wrong) for him to stand in front of them at an appropriate distance and continue to drum/chant as he likely had for portions of the march. All of that seems consistent with their purpose of the day.

Now, given the context of all of that, it seems like this is a perfect opportunity for dialogue. A chance for the high school kids to learn about the ways in which they could have been more respectful to the situation and understanding the context (standing around one individual, yelling, jumping, dancing etc. can easily be interpreted as threatening, and will most certainly be seen as disrespectful). To teach the way we can have differing opinions and still have amicable discussion/demonstration. But, instead, it gets weaponized to tell the stories that either side wants it to tell.

Crucifying high school kids for acting immature/insensitive does not do any good. If we can't take the time to teach the kids of our nation how to have productive and healthy debate/demonstration, then how can we expect them to grow into adults that will do so. However, I also do not think it is right to absolve them of any responsibility. Intentioned or not - insensitivity and not realizing the context/power differential is still wrong. But that was a lesson many of us had to learn (are still learning); to have awareness of the way our personal factors and the contextual factors can affect another individual. But, since we don't possess those traits in our public discourse among adults, I doubt we're going to successfully teach that to kids.

The kid did not go up the drummer. That’s not the story as I understand it

 

[WisNeuro]

What about the videos of the students doing the tomahawk chop towards Mr. Philips? Or various other issues with this institution (blackface, abhorrent rape comments, etc). They seem far from innocent in this situation. As @barbatenussapientes mentioned, seems like people love to look at this issue with blinders on to fit their narrative. There were a lot of things going on, but very few people/outlets seem to want to look at everything involved. Microcosm of most of what's been discussed here.

 

[memedoctor]

I was hesitant to get into this thread, as it seemed like it could very well be an energy and time blackhole for me during internship application, but now that I'm just anxiously waiting, I'm going to go ahead and jump in here.

I have a lot of objections to JBP - many of them ideological. Chief among those is that he seems to posit that it is possible to not have an ideology in the first place, which is impossible for anyone who meaningfully participates in any way in society. I can get into that more if anyone wants, but this article does a pretty decent job of breaking down and critiquing a lot of the assumptions that JBP operates on:
Jordan Peterson’s Flimsy Philosophy of Life
and Jordan Peterson's Murky Maps of Meaning

But on top of his ideological positions, a lot of his behavior is outright alarming to see from a clinical psychologist. This article, written by a former colleague and friend, describes some huge red flags:

I was Jordan Peterson’s strongest supporter. Now I think he’s dangerous | The Star

There is a LOT in there that is disturbing and illustrates a deep, blinding arrogance - but one of the things that I would hope would strike everyone here as an utterly wtf-are-you-DOING event is him objecting to oversight from his university's research ethics committee:

He was, however, more eccentric than I had expected. He was a maverick. Even though there was nothing contentious about his research, he objected in principle to having it reviewed by the university research ethics committee, whose purpose is to protect the safety and well-being of experiment subjects.

He requested a meeting with the committee. I was not present but was told that he had questioned the authority and expertise of the committee members, had insisted that he alone was in a position to judge whether his research was ethical and that, in any case, he was fully capable of making such decisions himself. He was impervious to the fact that subjects in psychological research had been, on occasion, subjected to bad experiences, and also to the fact that both the Canadian and United States governments had made these reviews mandatory. What was he doing! I managed to make light of this to myself by attributing it to his unbridled energy and fierce independence, which were, in many other ways, virtues. That was a mistake.

Certainly, there can be and have been plenty of situations with specific committees that have problems, but objecting in principle to IRB/REC oversight is ... something. It's something.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I think the Covington thing should not have made national news. These stories tend to be abusive to all parties involved, in my opinion. There’s no good reason for the national media and others to be digging around in hs antics. That Nathan person shouldn’t have people digging around to see if he was or was not a viet nam vet. There does seem to be some issues around the twitter account that posted the original video. And, lots of selective editing.

The results have been the hs having to close briefly, death threats for various people involved, shaming from people all over the country...it’s inappropriate. This simply a hazard of social media, and people looking for specific themes to get pissed off about that overlap with various pet agendas. There’s a story both political groups roughly want to tell. Democrats want to find and highlight any spinnably negative behavior by white males and trump supporters in particular, preferably highlighting the lunatic fringe of the Republican Party. Republicans want to point out when the Dems have gone overboard, highlighting the intersectional lunatic fringe elements of the Democratic party.

The short of it. No crimes were committed here. There’s zero good reason for this to be in the national discourse.

The Covington kids were a bunch of HS kids on the steps of the Capitol making a tour of Washington D.C. and they were approached by political activists screaming aggressive taunts toward them (in the case of the 'Black Israelites') and subject to the unsolicited banging of drums in their face (in the case of the 'I did not serve in Vietnam' native American). Those are the facts.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

We should all aspire to be better people. And, as men, we need something to aspire to:

How about we love our daughters and sons evenly? That would be cool

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Everything you may wish to discern about appropriate masculinity is to be found in this scene (watch it):



that, and Andy Griffith

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Antony needed his ass whupped in Egypt (minus all the drama)