what do you need to get a spot in competative residency program?

[chury]

Do you need to get honors in some classes, many classes or you can get into a nice program only with good USMLE scores? (I am talking about US graduates ) What is the most important?

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[pags]

I'm currently trying to match in radiology and it seems that those with the most interviews are:
1) From top tier allopathic schools
2) Lots of honored courses, top 20% of class
3) High USMLE scores, 240+
4) Research in radiology, and/or other areas
5) Letters of recommendation from well known or important radiologists.

Now, obviously this is ideal and there are not that many candidates with all of these. But, this can give you a rough estimate on what you should strive for to land a competitive residency at a competitive program.

 

[penelope]

Thanks, pags, for the advice. I'm finding honors elusive and feeling like it's going to cost me that juicy residency...but maybe if I do some cool research and kick butt on the boards I can compensate...? Any recommendations for people not in the top 20% of their class? Thanks.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

I'm assuming you are a preclinical student (since you haven't taken the boards yet). My pre-clinical grades were probably barely top half of my class (my only honors were in psych, clinical continuum, ethics, high pass in most other classes).

From what I have read in Iserson's and experienced at 15 radiology interviews, preclinical grades are really not that important. What matters most is your 3rd year clerkship grades, especially surgery, medicine, and your specialty of choice (radiology for me). These clerkships help prove that you are a hard worker (believe me, this is the most important thing in getting good grades in third year), get along well with others, and have a reasonable knowledge base (read about your patients and their diseases). That is what most programs are looking for. I actually saw on my file cover sheet at one New York program three slots for grades: Medicine, Surgery, and Radiology (my field of choice)

The USMLE Step I serves as an equilizer test of the preclinical years. If you do well on this test, it can balance out average grades in these years.

Research is good to have. Its better if you publish, but just having some under your belt and maybe presenting a poster will help too. I did functional MRI research and only presented it at our school research day. From what I have been able to tell during my interviews, this research was a factor in 2-3 of the programs I interviewed at.

I am applying to radiology and have interviews at 20 school. I turned down 4 offers. Of these, none are top 10 places. About 5 are top 20 university program. The rest are middle tier programs. Maybe 1-2 not so great places.

So, study your ass off for the USMLE and work your ass off in third year and you should do fine. Good luck.

 

[chury]

Ok. First year is pass/fail only at my school. Second year has fail, pass and Honors. Honors are only top 10%. So far I have only 1 out of 4 honors. I always miss the honors by 1 or 2 questions.

Now my question is: will they rank all the students at my school or they will count my 89% the same as the people that got 65%? How does this work in your schools?

 

[ckent]

Originally posted by chury:
•Ok. First year is pass/fail only at my school. Second year has fail, pass and Honors. Honors are only top 10%. So far I have only 1 out of 4 honors. I always miss the honors by 1 or 2 questions.

Now my question is: will they rank all the students at my school or they will count my 89% the same as the people that got 65%? How does this work in your schools?•••

The way that I understand rankings is that every school has their own system (ie there is no standard way of ranking). At my school, I have heard that my dean's letter will say that I am in the top fourth/ upper half/ lower half/ lower fourth of my class.

 

[Voxel]

One thought about grades, some clerkships place a lot of emphasis not on how hard you work during your rotation, but your grade on the shelf exam. So, it's in your best interest grades wise, to do well on the exam and unfortunately this means less hard work on the wards.

 

[Goofy]

Originally posted by chury:
•Ok. First year is pass/fail only at my school. Second year has fail, pass and Honors. Honors are only top 10%. So far I have only 1 out of 4 honors. I always miss the honors by 1 or 2 questions.

Now my question is: will they rank all the students at my school or they will count my 89% the same as the people that got 65%? How does this work in your schools?•••


Not all schools rank their students. In fact it seems there is a general move to do away with this, at least at some institutions. This is a double edged sword as it can hurt the stellar applicant, while giving a free pass to students with lower numbers.

Generally speaking, I wouldn't worry about the first two years of preclinical training. Your grades mean very little in the grand scheme of things. Many schools even offer ways to get AOA solely based on your 3rd year grades.

To the original poster. I wouldn't worry so much about honors, especially preclinical honors. Even in competitive specialties like ER and Radiology, there are tons of slots. While they are filling up, mediocre students on paper can usually find something. There are any number of ways to bolster an application and earn a spot in one of these disciplines. Fields like rad onc and derm are a whole different story. Not only are they popular, but they have very very few positions available. These positions require the absolute best numbers grouped with some luck. Connections are perhaps just as good. If you aspire to enter Anesthesia, radiology, ER, or even ortho, you should be able to do it as a US grad. They are very popular fields at the moment, but they also have tons and tons of spots.

Best wishes and good luck.

 

[pags]

Klebsiella,
I wouldn't go so far as to say a mediocre amercian grad can easily find a spot in radiology this year. I'm happy to say that I'm far beyond a mediocre student, however, I've had difficulty in securing radiology interviews. Yea, the DO thing might have something to do with it, but there are an awful lot of high quality applicant this year for the 880 or so radiology spots. I've noticed that the application numbers for surgery and its subspecialties have decreased while rads have been going up.

 

[Goofy]

Originally posted by pags:
•Klebsiella,
I wouldn't go so far as to say a mediocre amercian grad can easily find a spot in radiology this year. I'm happy to say that I'm far beyond a mediocre student, however, I've had difficulty in securing radiology interviews. Yea, the DO thing might have something to do with it, but there are an awful lot of high quality applicant this year for the 880 or so radiology spots. I've noticed that the application numbers for surgery and its subspecialties have decreased while rads have been going up.•••

Pags,

I didn't mean to imply that it is 'easy'. Clearly radiology is one of the most competitive specialties and it requires a little bit extra to get a slot. My point is that it 'can' be had by those who really want it. What this means is that osteopathic candidates, less stellar can still enter the field if they are prepared to go the extra mile. While competition is certainly high, there are lots of spots. There are even opportunities for candidates to enter the field if they don't match. Since the vast majority of radiology training sites are excellent, this is indeed good news.

I have seen any number of posters list board cuttoffs that are implied to be universal. This is simply not the case. Many programs do use cuttoffs, but many do not. There simply isn't that many students with 240+ on the boards to fill all of the radiology/Er/anesthesia/ortho slots that are available. Getting in aint easy, but if you didn't honor a thing your first two years you certainly shouldn't be writing any of these fields off. As you know, strong clerkship performance with research experience, the right connections can translate into a successful career. Even commonly so.

Best of luck