What does it take to get into Mayo, Harvard or Johns Hopkins?

[avgn]

There are no generalizations available for the top tier of applicants. By definition, their cool paths and interests are what made them top applicants, and so looking for generalizations, even in terms of stats, is a useless exercise. e.g., the stats need to be good, but not necessarily 3.8+/35+. There's a whole mix of people who get around into the top schools, however defined.

In terms of what these people are like, I went to undergrad with a bunch of them. They're just like you or me – nothing too weird or out of this world. They partied, drank, and had their fun, but they also accomplished great things that have benefited a lot of people or showed their potential to become leaders in certain fields, however defined.

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[StudyLater]

There are no generalizations available for the top tier of applicants. By definition, their cool paths and interests are what made them top applicants, and so looking for generalizations, even in terms of stats, is a useless exercise. e.g., the stats need to be good, but not necessarily 3.8+/35+. There's a whole mix of people who get around into the top schools, however defined.

In terms of what these people are like, I went to undergrad with a bunch of them. They're just like you or me – nothing too weird or out of this world. They partied, drank, and had their fun, but they also accomplished great things that have benefited a lot of people or showed their potential to become leaders in certain fields, however defined.

Based on your sig it seems you are also one of these people. Ty for your input.

 

[avgn]

Based on your sig it seems you are also one of these people. Ty for your input.

Time will tell! Thanks for the flattery

 

[WedgeDawg]

Not that this means anything at all, but for me, the "giants" are Harvard Hopkins Stanford Penn UCSF WashU Duke Columbia UCLA in no particular order. Yale and Chicago are questionable because their hospitals are good but not like MGH or NYP or JHH or anything, but I can see arguments made for them.

Disclaimer: this constitutes my own personal opinion and doesn't really mean jack.

Obviously people will disagree.

 

[getdown]

and so it begins... sigh

 

[Nietzschelover]

Are there any differences profile-wise between med school matriculants at Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford, UCSF, Penn, etc and those at Mayo and Cleveland Clinic? Is going to the latter sort of akin to going to Deep Springs?

 

[Gandyy]

Well I'm so god damn sorry that I didn't have enough time to study as much as you
I'm so sorry I didn't make enough time to study in between caring for my depressed alcoholic mother, mourning my father who died in the 7th grade, and becoming the man of the house from a young age
I'm so sorry that I had to work a job to support my family
I'm so sorry that I was treated as a second class citizen, and I'm so sorry that I can hardly go outside without SOMEONE giving me shift eyes
Speaking of going outside? I can't even do that safely
I'm so sorry that I lost friends because of my race and their over bearing parents.

I'm so sorry that I spent the majority of my undergrad knowing I was crippling my mother and having our meager home in constant limbo

But you're right
I don't deserve to go to med school
Obviously I have no right to take precious medical spots from people who REALLY deserve an MD, people who had the high MCAT scores and the high GPA.
I didn't work NEARLY as hard as you did, it's all equal now! It's 2015! Everyone's ok.
Right?

Calm Down. You are making an asinine amount of assumptions. There is not just 1 race that has to deal with all these problems. Quit being so insensitive.

There are "ORM"s that have it worse than what you have described. Not all Asians are magically better off than other races and not all URM's are magically worse off than all races.

Most importantly this URM/ORM status is in no way about the actual individual who is applying to medical school. Admittedly it does benefit the individual but thats not what its about.


BTW I'm an "ORM" and I've had to deal with at least 2 things from your list. I've also had to deal with SEVERAL bouts of racism.

Edit: Also dont feed the troll. StudyLater likes to post troll comments. Just let it go

 

[Lucca]

Are there any differences profile-wise between med school matriculants at Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford, UCSF, Penn, etc and those at Mayo and Cleveland Clinic? Is going to the latter sort of akin to going to Deep Springs?

Quantitatively? Probably not. Looking at the MSAR most medical schools in the Top 20 let alone the top 10 are (not-surprisingly) homogenous on the numbers front (mostly because their numbers are nearly perfect) with a few standout exceptions like WashU (see WashU numbers thread).

Qualitatively? Probably yes. Mayo and CC have very small class sizes and therefore they probably worry about fit a lot more than the top 3 do to be completely honest. The top 3 are probably shooting for diversity an excellence: a group of students who have distinguished themselves academically and in a single or set of pursuits that help define them as students. Meanwhile, Mayo and CC are probably looking for the same thing but with a much narrower lens that tries to pick out if they will fit the school's mission. But this is all speculation.

Your best bet for getting into these schools is just to be academically perfect, do plenty of scientific research, go to a very well regarded undergrad ( pref. HYPS) and then take some years off to do something incredible. Essentially, check off the same boxes but make sure you only hit home runs.

 

[PREMEDitated22]

EHEHEHEEEEMMMMM.

I for one believe URMs are taking spots that are better devoted to more qualified applicants.

lol we're taking your spots and yo b****

 

[StudyLater]

lol we're taking your spots and yo b****

Awwww shucks, gosh darnit.

(see I don't curse excessively and only use euphemisms cuz I'm soooo white)

 

[Chemistry>Physics]

The URM vs. ORM is an old argument and this isn't the place.

NY Times did a great article if you still don't know why we need minority doctors.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/opinion/sunday/the-case-for-black-doctors.html?_r=0

 

[StudyLater]

The URM vs. ORM is an old argument and this isn't the place.

NY Times did a great article if you still don't know why we need minority doctors.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/opinion/sunday/the-case-for-black-doctors.html?_r=0

That doesn't change the fact

 

[deleted393595]

EHEHEHEEEEMMMMM.

I for one believe URMs are taking spots that are better devoted to more qualified applicants.

Arbitrary argument that AA is obsolete. Anecdotal evidence inserted here. Resort to namecalling OP

 

[StudyLater]

Arbitrary argument that AA is obsolete. Anecdotal evidence inserted here. Resort to namecalling OP

Retort that contains mostly SES-based arguments with a racial spin.

Examples of cops killing people obviously due to race.

 

[deleted393595]

Retort that contains mostly SES-based arguments with a racial spin.

Respond with AMCAS data and graphs. Lots of graphs.

 

[StudyLater]

Respond with AMCAS data and graphs. Lots of graphs.

Respond with non-cited percentage of minorities that have died as a result of cultural negligence from whitey Mcwhite docs.

 

[deleted393595]

Respond with non-cited percentage of minorities that have died as a result of cultural negligence from whitey Mcwhite docs.

Namecall OP more. Drown OP with more figures. Imply that OP is a reverse racist.

 

[Spector1]

Let's not get into this arbitrary debate/conversation about the potential net advantage/disadvantage of affirmative action, please.

The conversation is not without merit. There are real issues at stake and it would be foolish to simply dismiss them as pointless or arbitrary.

 

[StudyLater]

Namecall OP more. Drown OP with more figures. Imply that OP is a reverse racist.

Respond to ad hominem with ad hominem. Link to vids of minorities being harassed by cops for being colored (obviously). Ask if anyone even understands the struggle of being poor, with a dead parent, taking care of a sickly sibling, and walking 15mi to school everyday, as it is just common sense white people could never understand this. Ask white people if they know what it's like to have ancestors that were in slavery.

 

[deleted393595]

Respond to ad hominem with ad hominem. Link to vids of minorities being harassed by cops for being colored (obviously). Ask if anyone even understands the struggle of being poor, with a dead parent, taking care of a sickly sibling, and walking 15mi to school everyday, as it is just common sense white people could never understand this. Ask white people if they know what it's like to have ancestors that were in slavery.

Refute arguments with links to breitbart.com. Quote LizzyM and Goro posts on AA to address your points.

 

[StudyLater]

Refute arguments with links to breitbart.com. Quote LizzyM and Goro posts on AA to address your points.

Completely ignore all further arguments. Call everyone in this thread white and entitled. Log off sdn, jump on bed face down kicking and screaming about how no one understands URM struggle - particularly white people, who are all rich with perfect lives and no real problems.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Damn, y'all must be really bored...

 

[WedgeDawg]

The week literally just started and the URM thread is already here... is that a record?

 

[StudyLater]

The week literally just started and the URM thread is already here... is that a record?

Don't worry. We'll have two more by Thursday for your viewing pleasure

 

[Spinach Dip]

Don't worry. We'll have two more by Thursday for your viewing pleasure

 

[Dinitrophenol]

Your best bet for getting into these schools is just to be academically perfect, do plenty of scientific research, go to a very well regarded undergrad ( pref. HYPS) and then take some years off to do something incredible. Essentially, check off the same boxes but make sure you only hit home runs.

Without a doubt these merits will help an application, but to give some perspective/hope:

1. You have to do well, but you don't need to be perfect. Personally, I had a strong upward trend with my GPA and I even retook a science class ...
2. Helps for top research schools but you don't have to publish and some people get in even without significant research involvement.
3. My class is skewed top-20, but can't say if that's a function of the school-bump or just that top schools have stronger candidates.
4. Vast majority of people in my class took at least one year off, but many of us just worked or did research.

To add a few more observations:

5. Be humble/grateful. I have yet to meet a single person in my class without imposter syndrome. And if you honestly thought you were a shoe-in for a top 10 school, we probably don't want you here. (Unless you've actually cured cancer; do notify the adcom immediately.)
6. Have social graces! Everyone I can think of in my class is super friendly and helpful.
7. Prestigious fellowships help. There are quite a few Rhodes/Marshall/etc scholars in my class and some days it feels like everyone has a masters from Oxbridge.
8. Realise that you don't need to hit a home-run on everything, but a short-coming on any part of your application will need to be balanced. People with high numbers can get away without having saved orphans from burning buildings; people with slightly lower numbers will have incredible life experiences/ECs/research. There's a reason why top schools (generally) average 3.8/36.

 

[Stagg737]

From what I've seen it comes down to organization and drive. The people at the top of medicine that I have met just have this inherent drive to work, grow, learn, and generally improve both themselves and their community. Additionally, they have the organization skills and commitment to do multiple things at once and have some semblance of a balanced life.

Both of these are skills which can be learned, and most medical students will acquire them to some extent. However, the people at the top schools who go on to be the best doctors have these skills mastered to a level that makes them seem like they can do anything and everything to the average joe.

A lot of these people are also innovative and excellent at applying their skills and abilities which allows them to do accomplish those 'unique' things that places like Harvard or Hopkins loves to see.

 

[ayylmao]

Without a doubt these merits will help an application, but to give some perspective/hope:

1. You have to do well, but you don't need to be perfect. Personally, I had a strong upward trend with my GPA and I even retook a science class ...
2. Helps for top research schools but you don't have to publish and some people get in even without significant research involvement.
3. My class is skewed top-20, but can't say if that's a function of the school-bump or just that top schools have stronger candidates.
4. Vast majority of people in my class took at least one year off, but many of us just worked or did research.

To add a few more observations:

5. Be humble/grateful. I have yet to meet a single person in my class without imposter syndrome. And if you honestly thought you were a shoe-in for a top 10 school, we probably don't want you here. (Unless you've actually cured cancer; do notify the adcom immediately.)
6. Have social graces! Everyone I can think of in my class is super friendly and helpful.
7. Prestigious fellowships help. There are quite a few Rhodes/Marshall/etc scholars in my class and some days it feels like everyone has a masters from Oxbridge.
8. Realise that you don't need to hit a home-run on everything, but a short-coming on any part of your application will need to be balanced. People with high numbers can get away without having saved orphans from burning buildings; people with slightly lower numbers will have incredible life experiences/ECs/research. There's a reason why top schools (generally) average 3.8/36.

And a 42 MCAT I know you...

 

[625233]

And a 42 MCAT I know you...

That you Dane? Stetson grad?

 

[ayylmao]

That you Dane? Stetson grad?

I am the one who listens in a place to talk.

 

[625233]

Without a doubt these merits will help an application, but to give some perspective/hope:

1. You have to do well, but you don't need to be perfect. Personally, I had a strong upward trend with my GPA and I even retook a science class ...
2. Helps for top research schools but you don't have to publish and some people get in even without significant research involvement.
3. My class is skewed top-20, but can't say if that's a function of the school-bump or just that top schools have stronger candidates.
4. Vast majority of people in my class took at least one year off, but many of us just worked or did research.

To add a few more observations:

5. Be humble/grateful. I have yet to meet a single person in my class without imposter syndrome. And if you honestly thought you were a shoe-in for a top 10 school, we probably don't want you here. (Unless you've actually cured cancer; do notify the adcom immediately.)
6. Have social graces! Everyone I can think of in my class is super friendly and helpful.
7. Prestigious fellowships help. There are quite a few Rhodes/Marshall/etc scholars in my class and some days it feels like everyone has a masters from Oxbridge.
8. Realise that you don't need to hit a home-run on everything, but a short-coming on any part of your application will need to be balanced. People with high numbers can get away without having saved orphans from burning buildings; people with slightly lower numbers will have incredible life experiences/ECs/research. There's a reason why top schools (generally) average 3.8/36.

Dane Moran? That you?

 

[FutureOncologist]

What people (i.e. OP) don't consider is the age of the average matriculant. I could probably bet they have a non-trad average age that is accepted each year. Yes, there are those who get in at the age of 22, but I can honestly bet that some late-20's to early 30's get in as well. If you really are devoted to getting into the giants, then I suggest taking a few years off to give back, do some research, mature, and focus on passions. Because I promise you the people getting into JHU, HMS, Stanford, etc. are ones with an interesting story with experiences that money can't buy and adversities that will make them into amazing physicians.

 

[Hobakie]

Well I'm so god damn sorry that I didn't have enough time to study as much as you
I'm so sorry I didn't make enough time to study in between caring for my depressed alcoholic mother, mourning my father who died in the 7th grade, and becoming the man of the house from a young age
I'm so sorry that I had to work a job to support my family
I'm so sorry that I was treated as a second class citizen, and I'm so sorry that I can hardly go outside without SOMEONE giving me shift eyes
Speaking of going outside? I can't even do that safely
I'm so sorry that I lost friends because of my race and their over bearing parents.

I'm so sorry that I spent the majority of my undergrad knowing I was crippling my mother and having our meager home in constant limbo

But you're right
I don't deserve to go to med school
Obviously I have no right to take precious medical spots from people who REALLY deserve an MD, people who had the high MCAT scores and the high GPA.
I didn't work NEARLY as hard as you did, it's all equal now! It's 2015! Everyone's ok.
Right?

you can say it a million times ,but there will always be the kid that uses URMs as the reason as to why he/she specifically didn't get into XYZ medical school if any, when the first thing he/she should have done was look at their likely too top heavy school list and how he/she can improve as an applicant starting with that lame ass mindset. I honestly got tired of arguing this with people. From now on I am just going to princess wave from the classroom of my new school while those who have nasty things to say wallow in their bitterness