What does stellar EC's mean?

[axel345]

Not too sure what people mean when they say "stellar" ec's. Would years of work experience, years of tutoring, 500 hours of hours of clinical experience w/ the underserved, 500 non-clinical hours , and multiple research publications be an example of stellar EC's?

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[MCATISEZ]

Not too sure what people mean when they say "stellar" ec's. Would years of work experience, years of tutoring, 500 hours of hours of clinical experience w/ the underserved, 500 non-clinical hours , and multiple research publications be an example of stellar EC's?

It's subjective. What may be stellar to some, may seem average to others. I suspect its subjective to those in admissions as well. Different schools seem to value different things.

 

[Goro]

> 250 hrs volunteering, especially in situations that emphasize service to the most vulnerable (hospice, nursing homes, Americorps, TFA, working with sick children, the developmentally disabled or mentally ill); military service, and Peace Corps come to mind.

Your example would be stellar ECs, especially if the tutoring is to poor children. These are what I have seen with people who get into Top Schools.

Having publications is a rarity for UG students, and obviously laudable.

 

[Geo16]

> 250 hrs volunteering, especially in situations that emphasize service to the most vulnerable (hospice, nursing homes, Americorps, TFA, working with sick children, the developmentally disabled or mentally ill); military service, and Peace Corps come to mind.

Gonna quote this when someone asks about volunteering

 

[numbersloth]

> 250 hrs volunteering, especially in situations that emphasize service to the most vulnerable (hospice, nursing homes, Americorps, TFA, working with sick children, the developmentally disabled or mentally ill); military service, and Peace Corps come to mind.

Your example would be stellar ECs, especially if the tutoring is to poor children. These are what I have seen with people who get into Top Schools.

Having publications is a rarity for UG students, and obviously laudable.

Ok so I personally have a problem with TFA though. Why should pre-meds be taking these spots from students who not only want to serve the underserved but *also* actually want to become teachers? Basically pre-meds are using it as a resumé booster while someone who is actually passionate about continuing in education loses out on a spot, mostly because pre-meds have high GPAs and are good smooth talkers. I don't know TFA just rubs me the wrong way when people are using it before medical school, even law school unless they want to actually serve these communities which most of my lawyer friends who did TFA don't (they're in BigLaw making BigMoney).

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Not too sure what people mean when they say "stellar" ec's. Would years of work experience, years of tutoring, 500 hours of hours of clinical experience w/ the underserved, 500 non-clinical hours , and multiple research publications be an example of stellar EC's?

Stellar doesn't always, but sometimes does, mean hours. Some may consider the following to be a "Stellar EC"
1k+ hours of research during undergrad, and one first authorship on a paper

Others may see "5k research hours" as stellar despite no paper being produced.

While it is entirely subjective, I personally consider stellar ECs to be above and beyond the usual premed stuff. Like with the research example, every pre-med does research, but to have a paper published puts that activity on a whole new level.

But...I have a secret. The most "stellar EC" EVERY medical school looks for...

is.


a really high, balanced MCAT. Rumor has it, people with high MCATs and GPAs tend to get admitted. Its a secret so don't tell anyone, kthxbai

 

[SuaveCardigans]

Ok so I personally have a problem with TFA though. Why should pre-meds be taking these spots from students who not only want to serve the underserved but *also* actually want to become teachers? Basically pre-meds are using it as a resumé booster while someone who is actually passionate about continuing in education loses out on a spot, mostly because pre-meds have high GPAs and are good smooth talkers. I don't know TFA just rubs me the wrong way when people are using it before medical school, even law school unless they want to actually serve these communities which most of my lawyer friends who did TFA don't (they're in BigLaw making BigMoney).

Having plans to return to school shouldnt preclude one from committing a significant time to service, disingenuous motives should. However, as you alluded, for some people it is practically impossible to tell when they just want a resume boost vs a sincere desire to learn and serve. If you find a way to tell liars from fakers, let us all know, and start with our adcom members.

Otherwise, I dont think we should be so cynical about all of its members.

 

[Dagrimsta1]

Beating ISIS, defending the french motherland against the invading Nazis, curing polio, professional blunt wrapping.
Things like that you know?

 

[Geo16]

Beating ISIS, defending the french motherland against the invading Nazis, curing polio, professional blunt wrapping.
Things like that you know?

LOL

 

[BombsAway]

My theory: An olympic medal, or anything else that puts you in a pool of less than 20 applicants per cycle.

Why <20? becasue each T20 is trying to collect the rare pokemon cards to impress all their other T20 friends.

 

[Lost in Translation]

It's subjective. What may be stellar to some, may seem average to others. I suspect its subjective to those in admissions as well. Different schools seem to value different things.

TBH I think this forum has an underestimated view of "stellar." I've seen people say that 150 clinical volunteer hours is "good" when in reality it's nothing, especially if done over more than 2 academic semesters.

 

[SuaveCardigans]

walking on water doesnt cut it anymore as adcoms will simply ote "applicant cant swim"

All that means is that youre can make it to the Carib schools, therefore unlikely to matriculate domestically. What chance do US schools have if an applicant can study in the "Harvard of the Caribbean"?

 

[Lost in Translation]

real ideas I have seen
2) refugee volunteer in mid east/greece for a year
5) purposefully moving to blighted area in city and running for local office as community activist

 

[Thienyl15]

4) donating a kidney to non family/ friend and becoming active in organization

I knew the application process can cost an arm and a leg, but this takes it to a new level.

 

[cactusman]

BTW SGU is now valued at over a billion (thats billion witb a b) for sale purposes. So it is more like Apple of the Caribbean

Harvard's endowment is over 34B, so I'd still rather be the Harvard of the Caribbean.

 

[Frogger27]

Pornstar in medicine

^^ She had stellar EC's IMO

 

[mimelim]

One of my advises/students worked in refugee camps in the middle east, he is now at HMS.

 

[theonlytycrane]

Donating a kidney!? Lol.


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[raiderette]

Know someone who ran created a food/clothing/OTC medicine bank since high school, sat on a board for local government and spoke to legislature and Congress about poverty. Meanwhile she volunteered at the VA for clinical experience. She made my years at free clinic feel so insignificant.

 

[MCATISEZ]

TBH I think this forum has an underestimated view of "stellar." I've seen people say that 150 clinical volunteer hours is "good" when in reality it's nothing, especially if done over more than 2 academic semesters.

I disagree. 150 hours of volunteering can be good. It depends on the impact you made, and how it affected you. In any case 150 hours of meaningful clinical volunteering, substantiated with other relevant activities, does not sound bad at all. (again subjective)

Being spread out over multiple academic semesters makes it sound better doesn't it? It shows commitment rather than packing them all together to "check a box".

 

[cloudstrife2054]

"Stellar" is a broad word and its meaning can differ vastly based on who is using it. I will just stick to the facts. On AMCAS, you describe 15 experience/activities, 700 characters each. You must mark 1 but no more than 3 meaningful experiences, where you have an extra 1,325 characters to describe how the experience affected your personal growth, humility, etc.

This is just my personal opinion, definitely have one clinical meaningful experience because if you want to be a doctor but do not have a meaningful clinical experience, it can make them wonder why you want to pursue medicine if you did not experience strong growth by it.

 

[cloudstrife2054]

I believe you do not have to mark any as most meaningful

I looked it up and you were right. I must have misread it somewhere. But, I'm sure it still got the message through regardless. I there is an applicant that does not mark at least one.

 

[Endoxifen]

4) donating a kidney to non family/ friend and becoming active in organization

I worry about this because I'm sure that some desperate premed somewhere, at some point, will do this with the hopes of getting in. What do you say about that person? I wouldn't even know where to start.

 

[Endoxifen]

I am kind of speechless at the thought as well. now, if they bring it to the interview in a jar, that would be something.

I'm more of a fan of the Egyptian burial pots myself, but to each his own.

 

[BombsAway]

Good lord, now that this is on SDN the pre-med kids will all be putting "organ donor #blessed" on their resume/app.

 

[DameJulie]

IMHO, "stellar EC" means you are committing/accomplishing what's considered top in the EC category as an undergrad.

For example, for research that would be a first/front authorship in publication, completing an competitive research internship, having your own funding for the project, etc.

For athletics, perhaps representing your school to compete in regional/state/national.

For clinical, above commitment in a clinical setting with a diverse pool of patients.

But by the time you apply, you should have at least one (if not more) EC that you could enthusiastically elaborate on your written app and interview.

 

[Lost in Translation]

I disagree. 150 hours of volunteering can be good. It depends on the impact you made, and how it affected you. In any case 150 hours of meaningful clinical volunteering, substantiated with other relevant activities, does not sound bad at all. (again subjective)

Being spread out over multiple academic semesters makes it sound better doesn't it? It shows commitment rather than packing them all together to "check a box".

How much of a commitment are you making if you volunteer 2 hours a week for 2 years? It looks more like you just show up whenever you feel like it and don't do much because how much can you really do in 2h? The theory is, if you continue that 4h/week for 2 or 3 years, you'll achieving like 300+h in that time. That is commitment. It's not like you do the 150h for one year and call it done.

 

[Thienyl15]

How much of a commitment are you making if you volunteer 2 hours a week for 2 years? It looks more like you just show up whenever you feel like it and don't do much because how much can you really do in 2h? The theory is, if you continue that 4h/week for 2 or 3 years, you'll achieving like 300+h in that time. That is commitment. It's not like you do the 150h for one year and call it done.

Depends on the circumstances surrounding the rest of the app. If 2h/week is on top of a normal course load, that's weaksauce. If the applicant is working full time while juggling multiple other volunteer commitments in excess of 10+ hrs per week with leadership components, different story.

 

[BombsAway]

Strong volunteer commitment =/= extraordinary EC. Its great for lots of reasons, but I thought this thread was about the "wow factor" ECs

 

[Thienyl15]

Strong volunteer commitment =/= extraordinary EC. Its great for lots of reasons, but I thought this thread was about the "wow factor" ECs

I'd say volunteering with TFA or the Peace Corps is pretty extraordinary.
Granted, not Rhodes-level but few applicants can actually claim volunteer experience of this type.

 

[bioboy23]

How much of a commitment are you making if you volunteer 2 hours a week for 2 years? It looks more like you just show up whenever you feel like it and don't do much because how much can you really do in 2h? The theory is, if you continue that 4h/week for 2 or 3 years, you'll achieving like 300+h in that time. That is commitment. It's not like you do the 150h for one year and call it done.

Multiple (4+) 1-4 hour a week volunteer commitments for 2+ years on top of full time class and part time work is weak, or did I read that wrong?

 

[Lost in Translation]

Multiple (4+) 1-4 hour a week volunteer commitments for 2+ years on top of full time class and part time work is weak, or did I read that wrong?

You read it wrong; we're discussing doing a single position for 150 total clinical volunteering hours.

 

[bioboy23]

You read it wrong; we're discussing doing a single position for 150 total clinical volunteering hours.

Okay good. I was like damn I better start working on the cure for cancer

 

[Incursio]

One of my friends became a national certified interpreter and volunteered for like 500 hrs on clinics for the underserved populations. I would consider that a bit rarer than avg though not sure if stellar(?)

 

[axel345]

One of my friends became a national certified interpreter and volunteered for like 500 hrs on clinics for the underserved populations. I would consider that a bit rarer than avg though not sure if stellar(?)

sounds pretty good and unique

 

[jazzmetal]

Know someone who ran created a food/clothing/OTC medicine bank since high school, sat on a board for local government and spoke to legislature and Congress about poverty. Meanwhile she volunteered at the VA for clinical experience. She made my years at free clinic feel so insignificant.

Did she get in?

 

[jazzmetal]

I believe you do not have to mark any as most meaningful

True if you list only one activity. Otherwise, from the AAMC site: "If you have two or more entries, you will be required to identify at least one as the most meaningful."
Section 5 of the AMCAS® application: Work and Activities

 

[bannie22]

I thought my ECs were above average.

 

[bbbcccppp]

Z

 

[bbbcccppp]

Donating a kidney!? Lol.


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1=DO
2=MD


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[Endoxifen]

When we say "stellar" are we talking Rhodes scholar-level stellar or mortal-level stellar? I think you can be extremely successful during your respective cycle without needing to cure cancer.

 

[BombsAway]

When we say "stellar" are we talking Rhodes scholar-level stellar or mortal-level stellar? I think you can be extremely successful during your respective cycle without needing to cure cancer.

We started off talking about Rhodes level stellar. Something that makes you so unique there aren't enough to go around for the top schools, changing the tides from a buyers market to a sellers market. Somewhere along the way people changed it to solid ECs.

 

[Endoxifen]

We started off talking about Rhodes level stellar. Something that makes you so unique there aren't enough to go around for the top schools, changing the tides from a buyers market to a sellers market. Somewhere along the way people changed it to solid ECs.

It makes sense. People will want to make it relevant to themselves and/or want their ECs to be considered stellar.

Edit: If we're doing evaluations here, how does 2-3 clinical first author papers, 1-2 clinical coauthor papers, and 2-3 national conference presentations stack up? What about starting a new internship between your school's main campus and its medical school. (Don't really know if it's appropriate for this thread or not)

 

[BombsAway]

It makes sense. People will want to make it relevant to themselves and/or want their ECs to be considered stellar.

Edit: If we're doing evaluations here, how does 2-3 first author papers, 1-2 coauthor papers, and 2-3 national conference presentations stack up? What about starting a new internship between your school's main campus and its medical school. (Don't really know if it's appropriate for this thread or not)

agreed.

i'd say it depends on where they were published. There could be hundreds of applicants with similar numbers, but very few who are frequent flyers in Nature, Science, or NEJM. But i'm talking out my rear, I don't know anything about research.

 

[enchantediris]

agreed.

i'd say it depends on where they were published. There could be hundreds of applicants with similar numbers, but very few who are frequent flyers in Nature, Science, or NEJM. But i'm talking out my rear, I don't know anything about research.

Few applicants have any significant product from their research experiences, and very few applicants have a publication! I think some adcoms previously estimated that even at top tier schools, less than 10% of applicants had a publication. (On the other hand, you have Stanford that is very research heavy and ends up with a class in which 50% of their matriculants have been published... ) So in that sense, having any sort of publication probably makes someone stick out. However, I'm sure that adcoms are also aware about how fickle research can be, and care more about what you've learned from the experience (e.g. scientific method, critical thinking, communication).

Also, I would say that very few professors who research and have their own labs with abundant funding are frequent flyers in Nature, Science, or NEJM. To be an undergrad with a publication in one of these journals would be amazing! While a great accomplishment, I think that it reflects more on the PI having that caliber of research in the lab than the undergrad who was lucky to stumble in at the right time. (Which is not to detract from the amount of work it takes to recieve authorship.)

 

[@Hazel-rah]

@gonnif @LizzyM @gyngyn how common is it that you see an app from someone who is already in a medical field, like Resp Therapist, Rad Tech, PA, NP, RN/LPN, etc???? (Not EMT)

Like, if your school gets 5,000 apps, how many of them are already a licensed medical field worker?

Are these applicants a dime a dozen? If so, what makes one "stellar" or memorable?

 

[Seldon]

One indication is the below table from AAMC where they class applicants and matriculants by major.
In "specialized health sciences" there were 1607 applicants and 527 matriculants for a matriculation rate of 32.8% versus 39.6%for the overall AMCAS average
This group has the weakest rate in the 7 broad categories that AMCAS tracks
https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/factstablea17.pdf

Why do you think their matriculation rate is so weak? Do non-trads tend to skew lower? If so, would you attribute the low matriculation rate to their non-trad status or something else?

 

[@Hazel-rah]

I did presentations on this to both AAMC and AACOM meetings on this over a decade ago and reached a few conclusions

1) Specialized Health Majors often have specific basic sciences geared to their major that are not acceptable to schools of fulfillment of the prereqs. For example, They may have Chemistry for Allied Health majors instead of General Chemistry or Nursing A&P instead of Bio-Major level A&P.
2) These specialized courses above also may not be rigorous preparation for MCAT as the more general course would be.
3) Most specialized health majors who apply right from college have the hurdle of a perceived weaker "vocational" background as well as a challenge on their motivation and commitment to a profession.
4) Those special health majors who apply after graduation while working full time, have much less time, energy, and resources to devote to postbacc, MCAT prep, application prep, and, often in relationships and with family, apply to a limited geographic area.

Both #2 #4 are still supported by their applicant mean MCAT score of 498.6, the lowest of all majors and the only one below 500. Matriculants in this major have an 8 point increase to 506.7, still the lowest of all majors. That would also indicate that there is some benefit of being a specialized health major as they get accepted with the lowest mean MCAT.

Interesting, thanks for the data! I hadn't studied it so closely.

So do you have any anecdotes of specialized health major applicants who were "memorable"?

 

[Seldon]

That would also indicate that there is some benefit of being a specialized health major as they get accepted with the lowest mean MCAT.

Is there any data on the actual matriculation rate split between those recent college grads and nontrads. How does the acceptance rates of specialized health majors compare to more science based majors? It'd be interesting to see if the matriculation with a low MCAT was only limited to nontrads who could compensate with experience or if there was some benefit to the path overall.