What does this mean? NRMP question

[ladybuggy]

I checked my rank order list fairly recently, and noticed one of the programs had recently WITHDRAWN from NRMP match. Why would a program that was on NRMP just withdrew? Is it safe to assume it is because they gave offers out to candidates prior to ranking them and just withdrew when they have their spots filled? What other reasons would a medical program be withdrawn from the match?

This program has also been very weird with answering phone calls or responding to e-mails (as in they never responded to any of my e-mails or phone calls in the last 3 months when I tried contacting them about a different matter). Very strange....

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[jcu]

Is it safe to assume it is because they gave offers out to candidates prior to ranking them and just withdrew when they have their spots filled?

Yes.

Did you only notice that status after the ROL deadline? That's messed up on their part.

 

[ladybuggy]

Yep, noticed it right after the ROL deadline. Pity as I could have thrown them out and put in a different program I interviewed at. Wish I could have received some kind of notice. Oh well, they were my lowest rank anyway. Hopefully, it would not come down to that. *fingers crossed*

 

[Law2Doc]

Yep, noticed it right after the ROL deadline. Pity as I could have thrown them out and put in a different program I interviewed at. Wish I could have received some kind of notice. Oh well, they were my lowest rank anyway. Hopefully, it would not come down to that. *fingers crossed*

You should have ranked every place you interviewed that you would go to over scrambling. It doesn't make sense to say " I would have put in a different program I interviewed at." if you would conceivably gone here it should have been listed.

 

[Libertas]

max of 20 ranks before you have to give the nrmp more money......

You should have ranked every place you interviewed that you would go to over scrambling. It doesn't make sense to say " I would have put in a different program I interviewed at." if you would conceivably gone here it should have been listed.

 

[gutonc]

max of 20 ranks before you have to give the nrmp more money......

So what's the bigger risk? Throwing NRMP a few ducats (and I agree that's a screw-job) or going unmatched? Not ranking every program you could tolerate just to save a few bucks is just stupid.

 

[Law2Doc]

So what's the bigger risk? Throwing NRMP a few ducats (and I agree that's a screw-job) or going unmatched? Not ranking every program you could tolerate just to save a few bucks is just stupid.

This. Foolish to invest hundreds of thousands in you medical education and draw the line at the few last bucks that actually might set you onto the path to recoup your investment.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I plan on asking the NRMP rep at our next meeting about the fees for longer rank lists. I think it's completely bogus. Longer lists do not cost the NRMP anything, nor do they make the match more complicated, nor do they hurt anyone.

 

[ladybuggy]

Didn't know I could buy more slots for ranking more programs. I thought there was a maximum you could do. Oh well. Too late now and no use crying over spilled milk. I really didn't like the other programs I interviewed at. So, probably for the best anyway!

 

[drizzt3117]

If they're ranking 19 programs they're probably in pretty good shape.

 

[DrAwsome]

I plan on asking the NRMP rep at our next meeting about the fees for longer rank lists. I think it's completely bogus. Longer lists do not cost the NRMP anything, nor do they make the match more complicated, nor do they hurt anyone.

Could you please also ask why they charge so much (25$) to apply to each program after a certain number of programs? For competitive specialties, we don't have a choice but to pan-apply and it seems like a money hungry maneuver on the part of the ERAS to charge that much per program. That should definitely be curtailed. I wouldn't assume it costs ERAS anything to transmit the documents since it's done electronically. So whether you send 20 or 40 applications, it should be the same. Although I guess I should ask-are ERAS and NRMP completely different organizations?

 

[Chakrabs]

Could you please also ask why they charge so much (25$) to apply to each program after a certain number of programs? For competitive specialties, we don't have a choice but to pan-apply and it seems like a money hungry maneuver on the part of the ERAS to charge that much per program. That should definitely be curtailed. I wouldn't assume it costs ERAS anything to transmit the documents since it's done electronically. So whether you send 20 or 40 applications, it should be the same. Although I guess I should ask-are ERAS and NRMP completely different organizations?

ERAS is run by the American Association of Medical Colleges (AAMC) while NRMP is seperate organization that farms out the task of applications to the AAMC. That is about to change as the NRMP decided this year to stop using the AAMC's services. Presumably within a year or two they will have their own application system up and running.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Could you please also ask why they charge so much (25$) to apply to each program after a certain number of programs? For competitive specialties, we don't have a choice but to pan-apply and it seems like a money hungry maneuver on the part of the ERAS to charge that much per program. That should definitely be curtailed. I wouldn't assume it costs ERAS anything to transmit the documents since it's done electronically. So whether you send 20 or 40 applications, it should be the same. Although I guess I should ask-are ERAS and NRMP completely different organizations?

Actually, this situation makes some sense. The idea is to discourage people from applying to a very large number of programs. Otherwise, my program might get 1000's of applications that would dilute out those that are really interested. So, for ERAS, it makes some sense to make it more expensive to apply to more programs. Or, to put it another way, it's in my best interest to do it this way.

Note that, as a PD, I don't get any of your ERAS fees. So, more applications is just more work for me.

ERAS is run by the American Association of Medical Colleges (AAMC) while NRMP is seperate organization that farms out the task of applications to the AAMC. That is about to change as the NRMP decided this year to stop using the AAMC's services. Presumably within a year or two they will have their own application system up and running.

It is true that the NRMP is going to terminate it's agreement with AAMC over web hosting. But, that's just because of all of the problems that the NRMP has had -- remember their website crashing last year during the scramble? And crashing this year on the ROL date? So the NRMP wants to run it's own website (or hire a specific company to do so). The NRMP is not going to get into the application business, that will continue to be ERAS.

 

[dpmd]

I can tell you that the family medicine residency at my institution withdrew at almost the last second due to the fact that the administration felt it was wise to tell the program on the day they were to submit their ROL, that they hospital was not going to allow them to have a new intern class (they need a public hearing before they can just shut the program down, but this gets things pretty close to a shut down).

Completely unfair to those that wasted money interviewing, wasted spots on their rank list, and to all the departments that rely on those interns as manpower (not to mention really bad for the current residents who aren't sure if they will be completing residency here or not)

 

[Law2Doc]

If they're ranking 19 programs they're probably in pretty good shape.

True, but stranger things have happened. 20 interviews theoretically might not be enough if you come across poorly in person or if a lot of them were reaches. I still wouldn't leave anything on the table to save a couple of bucks at this juncture.

 

[drizzt3117]

True, but stranger things have happened. 20 interviews theoretically might not be enough if you come across poorly in person or if a lot of them were reaches. I still wouldn't leave anything on the table to save a couple of bucks at this juncture.

The chance of matching with either 19 or 20 contiguous ranks was >99% in every single specialty except plastics from the 2011 charting outcomes data, fwiw (it was 100% for rad onc, ent, rads, derm, neurosurgery, and many other specialties, ironically neuro and medicine were two exceptions)

 

[deleted103644]

The chance of matching with either 19 or 20 contiguous ranks was >99% in every single specialty except plastics from the 2011 charting outcomes data, fwiw (it was 100% for rad onc, ent, rads, derm, neurosurgery, and many other specialties, ironically neuro and medicine were two exceptions)

Not sure of the percentage, but there was 1 person applying to radiology last year with at least 16 ranks who did not match, so maybe it rounded up to 100%, but there's still a chance.

When you're talking about small percentages, the important thing to consider isn't the probability of the event taking place, it's the probability * the cost.

For many an event that has a 0.1% chance of occurring but essentially invalidates your medical education might be worth safeguarding against....

 

[Law2Doc]

...
When you're talking about small percentages, the important thing to consider isn't the probability of the event taking place, it's the probability * the cost.
....

This. Look at it like earthquake/hurricane insurance. Odds are low, but the devastation would be high.

 

[drizzt3117]

Not sure of the percentage, but there was 1 person applying to radiology last year with at least 16 ranks who did not match, so maybe it rounded up to 100%, but there's still a chance.

When you're talking about small percentages, the important thing to consider isn't the probability of the event taking place, it's the probability * the cost.

For many an event that has a 0.1% chance of occurring but essentially invalidates your medical education might be worth safeguarding against....

I said 19 or 20 ranks. Look at the graph on page 47, it's at 100% at 19/20.

 

[deleted103644]

True, but you should take that graph with a grain of salt - it's just an extrapolated smooth curve. In the center it's probably pretty reliable, but at the edges I wouldn't really trust it.

 

[drizzt3117]

True, but you should take that graph with a grain of salt - it's just an extrapolated smooth curve. In the center it's probably pretty reliable, but at the edges I wouldn't really trust it.

It seems consistent with the data; look at the curve for plastics.

 

[deleted103644]

It seems consistent with the data; look at the curve for plastics.

Of course it's consistent - it's derived from the data - the question is whether or not it's reliable.

The margin of error is probably at least half a percent in the range we're talking about, making the precise numbers worthless.

 

[acrolentiginous]

So what's the bigger risk? Throwing NRMP a few ducats (and I agree that's a screw-job) or going unmatched? Not ranking every program you could tolerate just to save a few bucks is just stupid.

I did this.
Phew... Glad I matched... and now can buy a new pair of shoes, too. Win

 

[ladybuggy]

I did this.
Phew... Glad I matched... and now can buy a new pair of shoes, too. Win

I second that! *dances* I am so happy right now!!!!!

After seeing the unfilled list, it looks like there are fewer unfilled positions than the previous years. Does anyone else notice that or is that just me?
Has the SOAP proven to be better organized than previous methods? I heard last year was a complete disaster.

 

[deleted103644]

I second that! *dances* I am so happy right now!!!!!

After seeing the unfilled list, it looks like there are fewer unfilled positions than the previous years. Does anyone else notice that or is that just me?
Has the SOAP proven to be better organized than previous methods? I heard last year was a complete disaster.

People are complaining, but sounds like it is better than the alternative (unless you're an unqualified applicant who had hoped to get lucky in the scramble).

Think ERAS/NRMP crashed at a critical time last year.

 

[PrimaryCareAppl]

That is correct. Their system crashed in 2011 for about 2hrs 43 minutes...

 

[acrolentiginous]

Well, NRMP crashed for about that long on the night rank lists were due this year, too.