What else could I have done?

[colts1]

I wanted to get some other opinions on what else they would have done if they didn't get in this cycle.

For me I think I would have put more time into my MCAT. I scored a 28M on it. I thought that with what I was doing at the time (working 48 hours a week and taking two classes at the U of A) it would still have been a decent score to get me into my state school. I have worked roughly 10,000 hours since I have been in college (4 years), been part of a research team for 1 1/2 years and am published, took 156 units in college, and graduated with a bachelors in physiology with a cumulative GPA of 3.746. I have also worked in the hospital for the last 1 year and 3 months, as well as shadowed a physician since spring of 2010. Also, I am a 26 year old non-traditional student who didn’t graduate high school, dropped out when I was 15, moved out of my parent’s home to enter the world as a homeless person, which was better than the poverty, physical, and mental abuse I went through. I have held numerous jobs from being a personal trainer, gym membership salesman, café shop worker, pizza delivery driver, furniture salesman, commercial plumbing construction worker, blood gas technician, blood bank technician, medical technician, and an employed research assistant. I have asked for advice from my mentor and he told me just to keep up with the medically related work, and really not to worry about my MCAT for the school I want to go to. He is part of a medical college and I appreciate his advice very much.

However, I feel I am pulling at straws right now. I have only interviewed at two schools, both in state, and haven’t heard anything from the MD schools I applied to out of state. It’s already January and therefore me getting interviews from here seems slim to say the least. I am taking two masters physiology classes and will get my masters if I don’t get accepted this cycle. Besides that I don’t know what else to do?

Any ideas would be much appreciated!

Colts1

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[bravofleet4]

what schools did you apply to just wondering?

 

[colts1]

what schools did you apply to just wondering?

Arizona, Colorado, OHSU, Rush, UIC, and Toledo. I also applied to Indiana, Nebraska and Washington because of the research I conduct, which I was turned down at.

 

[Catalystik]

Have you sent an update letter to each school that allows them?

If you have to reapply, submit in June, apply to 15-20 schools, and give consideration to an MCAT retake.

 

[colts1]

Have you sent an update letter to each school that allows them?

If you have to reapply, submit in June, apply to 15-20 schools, and give consideration to an MCAT retake.

Beside that, which I will do if I don't get in, what else could better my application?

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

Definitely re-take your MCAT! It's below average for an accepted MD student.

Also, I think this was posted in the MD section... have you considered applying DO?

 

[Catalystik]

While I saw that you've been working in a hospital, the jobs you mention don't necessarily have patient contact. What is your clinical experience interacting directly with sick people? Keep in mind that about 1.5 years of this is average.

Also, consider shadowing 2 other specialties, if only for a half day each, to broaden your experience. This would be particularly important if the doc you've spent so much time with is not in primary care, in which case try to get in a few days with such a specialist.

And I'm not seeing any nonmedical community service which would be a big problem if your clinical experience was obtained in a job. I think that adcomms won't necessarily hold you to this widespread expectation considering your need to work heavy hours, but on the other hand . . . . its lack would leave room for improvement.

 

[colts1]

Definitely re-take your MCAT! It's below average for an accepted MD student.

Also, I think this was posted in the MD section... have you considered applying DO?

I will if I don't get in. As for DO, I have considered it when I was deciding between the allopathic/osteopathic approach to medicine and ruled it out a long while ago.

 

[colts1]

While I saw that you've been working in a hospital, the jobs you mention don't necessarily have patient contact. What is your clinical experience interacting directly with sick people? Keep in mind that about 1.5 years of this is average.

Also, consider shadowing 2 other specialties, if only for a half day each, to broaden your experience. This would be particularly important if the doc you've spent so much time with is not in primary care, in which case try to get in a few days with such a specialist.

And I'm not seeing any nonmedical community service which would be a big problem if your clinical experience was obtained in a job. I think that adcomms won't necessarily hold you to this widespread expectation considering your need to work heavy hours, but on the other hand . . . . its lack would leave room for improvement.

I worked in the Cardiac ICU as a blood gas technician. As for shadowing other doctor's, I am meeting with the doctor I shadow on Thursday, who is a pediatrician to shadow her for roughly 5 hours. She is going to set me up with other physicians to be mentored by over the next 2-4 months on Thursday. I am looking into doing some community service with my wife on the weekends two days out of the month, however it will not be an outrageous amount.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I will if I don't get in. As for DO, I have considered it when I was deciding between the allopathic/osteopathic approach to medicine and ruled it out a long while ago.

Unless you are going to heed the multiple instances of people saying you need retake the MCAT, you will need to change your mind about DO programs if you want to considerably increase your chances for an acceptance somewhere. What were your practice scores? Do you think 28M is your best performance? There isn't a secret app-booster that can get you past getting screened because of your MCAT score. Your app won't even be read. Right now, you need to consider that you will be reapplying, not if. You've been given solid advice about how to proceed. You should give it stronger consideration.

 

[colts1]

Unless you are going to heed the multiple instances of people saying you need retake the MCAT, you will need to change your mind about DO programs if you want to considerably increase your chances for an acceptance somewhere. What were your practice scores? Do you think 28M is your best performance? There isn't a secret app-booster that can get you past getting screened because of your MCAT score. Your app won't even be read. Right now, you need to consider that you will be reapplying, not if. You've been given solid advice about how to proceed. You should give it stronger consideration.

I have no problem retaking my MCAT, and I scored better on a practice exam, however it was close to my average. At the time I took my MCAT I was working 48 hours a week and taking two classes at the University. I think it is very funny that people are so hung up on how BAD my MCAT score is, when with everything I was doing most students would not be able to handle 1/3 of the load. 156 units in fours years, or 39 units a year, while working more then full time and up to 60 hours a week, doing research 15-20 hours a week for a 1 1/2 years, shadowing and keeping a 3.75? Tell me someone you know who has done that? On top of that, find someone that is applying to medical school starting college 7 years after dropping out of high school and didn’t know how to do a fraction when they started college and grew up so poor that they didn’t own a mattress until they were 19! Also, find a person who has been through as much in their life and persevered through stuff no child ever should have. Want to find some one who has had a life like me go look in the inner city and streets of Chicago and see what direction they are heading in their life. This is probably why my mentor who is in a high position at a medical tells me I have a really good chance even with a 28M.

Cheers

 

[Pons Asinorum]

My friend, you need to tweek your aggrievment and entitlement settings a bit. If your 28M is so swell, why are you on here trying to figure out what else you can do since you aren't holding an interview invite in hand? Congrats on all that stuff you wrote that I skipped over reading, but nobody else is going to read it on an adcomm either unless you get that baby screened. Your MCAT score could be holding you back, don't you agree, regardless of what your mentor says? If you have a "really good" chance, then sit back and wait on that acceptance to hit your mailbox. Otherwise, go start studying for an MCAT retake and keep patting yourself on the back for what you've accomplished. A quick search tells me that your combination of MCAT and GPA give you around a 51% chance of acceptance somewhere (according to AAMC, not accounting for race/URM). I'll let you decide if that's "really good."

I have no problem retaking my MCAT, and I scored better on a practice exam, however it was close to my average. At the time I took my MCAT I was working 48 hours a week and taking two classes at the University. I think it is very funny that people are so hung up on how BAD my MCAT score is, when with everything I was doing most students would not be able to handle 1/3 of the load. 156 units in fours years, or 39 units a year, while working more then full time and up to 60 hours a week, doing research 15-20 hours a week for a 1 1/2 years, shadowing and keeping a 3.75? Tell me someone you know who has done that? On top of that, find someone that is applying to medical school starting college 7 years after dropping out of high school and didn’t know how to do a fraction when they started college and grew up so poor that they didn’t own a mattress until they were 19! Also, find a person who has been through as much in their life and persevered through stuff no child ever should have. Want to find some one who has had a life like me go look in the inner city and streets of Chicago and see what direction they are heading in their life. This is probably why my mentor who is in a high position at a medical tells me I have a really good chance even with a 28M.

Cheers

 

[colts1]

My friend, you need to tweek your aggrievment and entitlement settings a bit. If your 28M is so swell, why are you on here trying to figure out what else you can do since you aren't holding an interview invite in hand? Congrats on all that stuff you wrote that I skipped over reading, but nobody else is going to read it on an adcomm either unless you get that baby screened. Your MCAT score could be holding you back, don't you agree, regardless of what your mentor says? If you have a "really good" chance, then sit back and wait on that acceptance to hit your mailbox. Otherwise, go start studying for an MCAT retake and keep patting yourself on the back for what you've accomplished. A quick search tells me that your combination of MCAT and GPA give you around a 51% chance of acceptance somewhere (according to AAMC, not accounting for race/URM). I'll let you decide if that's "really good."

I am not disputing the fact that my MCAT is not great, but I do not believe it should hold me back to the point I wouldn't get in at some time. Also, I had already decided I would re-take my MCAT. This post was more about what else should I do to better my application. All I was trying to point out is my situation was anything but ideal, and I am not your typical applicant. I am considered a URM do to my family SES. That is beside the point though.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

...but I do not believe it should hold me back to the point I wouldn't get in at some time. Also, I had already decided I would re-take my MCAT.

I'll let you decide how you mentally reconcile those two sentences taking up residence next to one another. Best of luck, your story is compelling and makes for a great PS read I'm sure. I would worry about known deficiencies in your application; your MCAT sticks out, as most here have pointed out. There really isn't anything else for you to do except keep extending your already-good EC's and call the adcomm's at the schools you want to attend after May 15 and ask why you didn't get an interview or an acceptance. Anecdotally, they are usually forthcoming. Fix the things that they point out as being negatives, then reapply as a stronger candidate. Again, best of luck.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

Pons Asinorum is absolutely right. I'm not trying to gang up on you, but you really need to drop the entitlement attitude. Maybe you don't feel entitled, but your posts have that sound. Shake it out

There are 42,000 applicants to medical school every year. There are probably thousands of URM students with higher MCAT scores than you.

------------------------------------

This post was more about what else should I do to better my application.

The "what else" should you do is that you should consider applying to DO schools. You say that you ruled it out. The people giving you advice think you should reconsider this notion!

 

[omgyou8myrice]

Your application is solid. Your MCAT is a little low, but nothing alarming, and I think your story, work history, etc more than make up for it. I would just send letters of interest and show them you're persistent. If you don't get in this round, you will in the future. Good luck

 

[colts1]

Pons Asinorum is absolutely right. I'm not trying to gang up on you, but you really need to drop the entitlement attitude. Maybe you don't feel entitled, but your posts have that sound. Shake it out

There are 42,000 applicants to medical school every year. There are probably thousands of URM students with higher MCAT scores than you.

------------------------------------


The "what else" should you do is that you should consider applying to DO schools. You say that you ruled it out. The people giving you advice think you should reconsider this notion!

Thousands? Are you joking me? Number 1, look at the percentage of applicants whose parental income is less than 25,000 dollars, (for a family of six). I think it's roughly 3% of all applicants, which would equate to 1,260 students who came from a similar SES. I think people are a little delusional when it comes to what the average MCAT score is, not accepted MCAT. Yes my MCAT is low, but not unforgivable. As for applying to DO schools, it is not the path I want to take in medicine. It has nothing to do with it increasing my odds. If you knew me you would have no idea what has ever transpired in my life, because I hold my head up high and am a very honest, gracious, happy person. The only reason I bring up my SES is I was trying to shed some light for people to see what else I have been through to get here. I am sure you are fairly aware of the statistics of the average parental income of students that apply, and get accepted. The truth is the wealthier your family is, most likely you will be at a much greater advantage from the get go. Better pre-school, elementary school, high school, smaller classes, better teachers, college paid for, etc. Tell me how that wouldn't help your chances? People aren't born into equal situations nor have similar circumstances; therefore, all things should be considered in an application.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I think that you'll go a lot farther in life if you recognize that everyone has difficulties in life that they have to overcome, and that some may just be worse than yours. You need to back off the navel-gazing about how you are nothing like all the other dishonest, ungracious, sad people who were raised in households with low income. You've done well for yourself; turn your victories into assets and an internal point of pride, not a club with which to beat "the privileged" about the head and shoulders. No one here wants MD admissions to be nothing but MCAT and GPA rankings. I'm pretty sure that every school has a big, bolded statement on their admissions webpage about how they consider the "whole applicant," or some other such language, and not just stats, and the matriculating stats show that they mean it. The most successful applicants have both; hence, the recommendations to work on your MCAT score.

Thousands? Are you joking me? Number 1, look at the percentage of applicants whose parental income is less than 25,000 dollars, (for a family of six). I think it’s roughly 3% of all applicants, which would equate to 1,260 students who came from a similar SES. I think people are a little delusional when it comes to what the average MCAT score is, not accepted MCAT. Yes my MCAT is low, but not unforgivable. As for applying to DO schools, it is not the path I want to take in medicine. It has nothing to do with it increasing my odds. If you knew me you would have no idea what has ever transpired in my life, because I hold my head up high and am a very honest, gracious, happy person. The only reason I bring up my SES is I was trying to shed some light for people to see what else I have been through to get here. I am sure you are fairly aware of the statistics of the average parental income of students that apply, and get accepted. The truth is the wealthier your family is, most likely you will be at a much greater advantage from the get go. Better pre-school, elementary school, high school, smaller classes, better teachers, college paid for, etc. Tell me how that wouldn't help your chances? People aren’t born into equal situations nor have similar circumstances; therefore, all things should be considered in an application.

 

[colts1]

I think that you'll go a lot farther in life if you recognize that everyone has difficulties in life that they have to overcome, and that some may just be worse than yours. You need to back off the navel-gazing about how you are nothing like all the other dishonest, ungracious, sad people who were raised in households with low income. You've done well for yourself; turn your victories into assets and an internal point of pride, not a club with which to beat "the privileged" about the head and shoulders. No one here wants MD admissions to be nothing but MCAT and GPA rankings. I'm pretty sure that every school has a big, bolded statement on their admissions webpage about how they consider the "whole applicant," or some other such language, and not just stats, and the matriculating stats show that they mean it. The most successful applicants have both; hence, the recommendations to work on your MCAT score.

Will see what happens. I will start studying for the MCAT at the end of the month again. I really wasn't trying to bash the wealthy, I was just trying to make a point that no one likes to talk about. I will do the best I can, and put the time in this time around. I was more worried about all the other stuff, grades in my classes over the summer, a new postion in the hospital, research, and moving that I really thought I would score in the low 30's. You live and you learn.

Cheers

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

Thousands? Are you joking me? Number 1, look at the percentage of applicants whose parental income is less than 25,000 dollars, (for a family of six). I think it's roughly 3% of all applicants, which would equate to 1,260 students who came from a similar SES.

MSAR data for the 2009 class doesn't break down family income at the $25,000 mark, but if you want to split the $20,000-$29,999 (3%) group in half we would say:

$20,000 - $25,000 = 1.5%
$10,000 - $19,999 = 2.3%
Less than $10,000 = 2.6%

= about 6.4% of accepted students have family incomes < $25,000

6.4% of a class of 19,332 students is 1,237 accepted applicants with family income equal or less than yours.

The median MCAT for accepted applicants was 32, so we might estimate that 600 people were accepted with the same family income as yours and MCAT of 32+.

Add in the people with the same income and MCAT scores from 29 to 31 and it would probably be close to 1,000 accepted applicants with your same family income, but higher MCAT scores.

That's just among accepted applicants, not all total applicants.

-----------

I'll be the first person to point out that these estimates make some questionable assumptions... but they also only look at financial income.

If you start adding in gay and lesbian applicants, people with disabilities, ethnic minorities, etc., then there's no doubt in my mind that there are thousands of URM applicants with better MCAT scores than yours.

Sorry, but I think this is realistic!

 

[colts1]

MSAR data for the 2009 class doesn't break down family income at the $25,000 mark, but if you want to split the $20,000-$29,999 (3%) group in half we would say:

$20,000 - $25,000 = 1.5%
$10,000 - $19,999 = 2.3%
Less than $10,000 = 2.6%

= about 6.4% of accepted students have family incomes < $25,000

6.4% of a class of 19,332 students is 1,237 accepted applicants with family income equal or less than yours.

The median MCAT for accepted applicants was 32, so we might estimate that 600 people were accepted with the same family income as yours and MCAT of 32+.

Add in the people with the same income and MCAT scores from 29 to 31 and it would probably be close to 1,000 accepted applicants with your same family income, but higher MCAT scores.

That's just among accepted applicants, not all total applicants.

-----------

I'll be the first person to point out that these estimates make some questionable assumptions... but they also only look at financial income.

If you start adding in gay and lesbian applicants, people with disabilities, ethnic minorities, etc., then there's no doubt in my mind that there are thousands of URM applicants with better MCAT scores than yours.

Sorry, but I think this is realistic!

I am almost certain you have applied and accepted confused. you should look in the MSAR book again, or I will later to clarify. But I am fairly certain you are wrong.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

I am almost certain you have applied and accepted confused. you should look in the MSAR book again, or I will later to clarify. But I am fairly certain you are wrong.

I'm looking at page 46 at the table titled "Parental Income of Entering Medical Students, 2009."

This is the best data that I could find. Better data might be out there, but I couldn't find it easily. Unfortunately, AAMC's publication "Diversity in Medical Education: Facts & Figures 2008" makes virtually no mention of financial/economic background in 100+ pages.

But here are some data to consider from that publication, based on applicants in the 2007 cycle:

Out of 42,315 total applicants, about 30% were white men. Therefore about 70% were women and/or not white, and consequently 70% of applicants have a claim to the "underrepresented in medicine" title.

Everyone has had struggles in their lives. Even for a white kid from a wealthy family, he could still be gay, or maybe his mom died from a heart attack when he was just two years old.

That's why I'm encouraging you to raise your MCAT and still consider DO schools.

Personally, I'm in a URM category, I got a 34 on the MCAT, and I'm applying to DO schools. Why wouldn't you?

 

[colts1]

I'm looking at page 46 at the table titled "Parental Income of Entering Medical Students, 2009."

This is the best data that I could find. Better data might be out there, but I couldn't find it easily. Unfortunately, AAMC's publication "Diversity in Medical Education: Facts & Figures 2008" makes virtually no mention of financial/economic background in 100+ pages.

But here are some data to consider from that publication, based on applicants in the 2007 cycle:

Out of 42,315 total applicants, about 30% were white men. Therefore about 70% were women and/or not white, and consequently 70% of applicants have a claim to the "underrepresented in medicine" title.

Everyone has had struggles in their lives. Even for a white kid from a wealthy family, he could still be gay, or maybe his mom died from a heart attack when he was just two years old.

That's why I'm encouraging you to raise your MCAT and still consider DO schools.

Personally, I'm in a URM category, I got a 34 on the MCAT, and I'm applying to DO schools. Why wouldn't you?

Good mcat score! I am talking about solely SES statistics, not URM. I completely agree everyone has dealt with tough situations in their personal life. furthermore, someones "bad" situation is all their own perspective to how the take in the situation, and therefore things of this nature are non-comparable. As for why not DO, I have compared allopathic to osteopathic medicine and decided whole heartedly that allopathic was the path I wanted to follow. Nothing against DO, I am sure they are just as good or better than MD physicians, but it was not what I decided. As for the MCAT for me, yes I will be re-taking it.

Good luck to you.

Colts1

 

[toastedcheese]

Number 1, look at the percentage of applicants whose parental income is less than 25,000 dollars, (for a family of six). I think it’s roughly 3% of all applicants, which would equate to 1,260 students who came from a similar SES.

Sorry to break it to you, but no one really cares about this. It gives you a good story for your PS, and maybe a leg up over others with the same stats as you, but you're not in the URM category.

I think people are a little delusional when it comes to what the average MCAT score is, not accepted MCAT. Yes my MCAT is low, but not unforgivable.

The 2010 average matriculant MCAT was 32.4 for Asians and 31.5 for whites. That includes all the lower-end scores for state schools, so to get into an out-of-state school your 28 is scraping the bottom of the barrel. And look, lo and behold, you got interviewed by your two state schools and no out-of-state schools.

https://www.aamc.org/download/161696/data/table19-mcatgpa-raceeth-2010-web.pdf.pdf


Like you and everyone else has said, you have a cool story. You're already doing everything else right. Get a better MCAT score, apply broadly and, like magic, the interview invites from out of state will start rolling in. There is not much else anyone can suggest.