What happens to DO's who do not match?

[Chuckwalla]

I going to apply DO schools this cycle. However, I am bothered by the prospect that only 75% of DO's who apply to MD residencies get in. I know I would want to do a MD residency. What happens to these DO's who skip the DO match and do not get into the MD match? Thanks.

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[JaggerPlate]

I going to apply DO schools this cycle. However, I am bothered by the prospect that only 75% of DO's who apply to MD residencies get in. I know I would want to do a MD residency. What happens to these DO's who skip the DO match and do not get into the MD match? Thanks.

Why go to a DO school if you are positive you want to do an MD residency (which is too big of an assumption to make as a pre-med. It's too difficult to know exactly what specialty you will want in the end, and to be sure there isn't a DO residency you would be interested in)? Those who don't match have to scramble, but remember that the DO match happens before the MD match so if you match DO you are automatically dropped from the MD cycle. Might be best to try to go US MD if you really want to be 100% sure, but I don't think DOs struggle to obtain MD residencies - aside from very competitive residencies.

 

[Chuckwalla]

Why go to a DO school if you are positive you want to do an MD residency (which is too big of an assumption to make as a pre-med. It's too difficult to know exactly what specialty you will want in the end, and to be sure there isn't a DO residency you would be interested in)? Those who don't match have to scramble, but remember that the DO match happens before the MD match so if you match DO you are automatically dropped from the MD cycle. Might be best to try to go US MD if you really want to be 100% sure, but I don't think DOs struggle to obtain MD residencies - aside from very competitive residencies.

Honestly, there is a high chance I won't get into a MD school.

 

[a817]

Honestly, there is a high chance I won't get into a MD school.

They scramble, look for vacancies or unfilled residency spots. they are people in allopathic school that scramble also but at smaller percentages. It depends on how well you apply and what field you apply for

 

[slim78]

This might be a dumb question but....

When the scramble happens, what kind of residencies are usually available. Is it pretty much just IM, FP, and PEDs? Or am I way off?

 

[MossPoh]

This might be a dumb question but....

When the scramble happens, what kind of residencies are usually available. Is it pretty much just IM, FP, and PEDs? Or am I way off?

It all depends on the year. Those IM, FP, PEDs will almost always have an abundance of spots to scramble in, but depending on the year anesthesiology, general surgery, and even upwards of ortho and radiology have spots hanging somewhere. Its not something I'd bank on, but it has happened.

 

[GreenShirt]

As the above posters have stated, in most case they attempt to scramble into something. Some people will also opt to do a transitional or rotational year (or research) and then enter the next Match cycle to get their desired specialty.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Honestly, there is a high chance I won't get into a MD school.

At least you're being honest. However, I don't think you should completely discredit DO residencies until med school. What specialty are you interested in (as of now)?

 

[TexasTriathlete]

This is what happens to DO's who do not match:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owZPspxJ4jw[/YOUTUBE]

 

[sle3pyguii]

This is what happens to DO's who do not match:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owZPspxJ4jw[/YOUTUBE]

TT,

You should just post videos for all your responses. They seem to work well. Haha.

 

[Bond8204]

At least you're being honest. However, I don't think you should completely discredit DO residencies until med school. What specialty are you interested in (as of now)?

It's too difficult to know exactly what specialty you will want in the end, and to be sure there isn't a DO residency you would be interested in)?

Both of these are correct. While aiming to go into an allopathic residency is a legitimate goal, make sure you know why you're doing it. Orthopedic surgeons practice the same whether they come out of an allopathic residency or osteopathic one.

The was thread awhile back titled "orthopedic babies" or something along those lines. A current resident/DO graduate who's in an allopathic program now put his/her two cents in. One of the differences I remember is that osteopathic residencies tend to be more community based, while allopathic ones tend to be more research hospital based (a generalization, but a true one). So you tend to get more patient diversity and hands on work at an osteopathic one. You tend to see more interesting, out of the ordinary cases and work with cutting edge technology and research in an allopathic one. In the end, it depends on your goals.

 

[CorpuSpongiosum]

There is a cemetery in Kirksville where they are taken, shot and buried.

 

[Chuckwalla]

At least you're being honest. However, I don't think you should completely discredit DO residencies until med school. What specialty are you interested in (as of now)?

IM and psych, non-competitive stuff.

That was hilarious, TT.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

TT,

You should just post videos for all your responses. They seem to work well. Haha.

Thats the wrong video! Its actually a preview video of an osteopathic cardiothoracic fellowship program. The heart donor was a first year at DMU that didnt pass OMM.

 

[Lamborghini1315]

I going to apply DO schools this cycle. However, I am bothered by the prospect that only 75% of DO's who apply to MD residencies get in. I know I would want to do a MD residency. What happens to these DO's who skip the DO match and do not get into the MD match? Thanks.

Foget the stats, foreign grads have a bigger prob with matching than you will...just work hard and if you excel on your boards you will be ok. You also have AOA before you go the allopathic route..so you can make up your mind depending on your scores..again realize tons of foreign grads from caribbean are the ones that have trouble matching. People who go to caribbean hoping to be an MD are probably beyond clueless about the residency process here in America. So don't just try to get into an MD school somehow to crack an allopathic residency . I suggest this to you because if you fail to crack an MD school here at home don't stay under the impression caribbean is the way to go.

 

[WoahMedicine]

Those 75% are usually bright students!! The same ones who use DO to intentionally back door an MD residency are the same guys who cry for a degree change.



If you want the MD residency go to MD school.

 

[Chuckwalla]

Those 75% are usually bright students!! The same ones who use DO to intentionally back door an MD residency are the same guys who cry for a degree change.



If you want the MD residency go to MD school.

Do you see me crying for a degree change? No, never once have I done that. So your assumption is wrong.

As I said, I stand a good chance of not getting into a MD school. I want to become a physician, the initials after my name are trivial compared to that.

 

[scpod]

....What happens to these DO's who skip the DO match and do not get into the MD match? Thanks.

The simple answer is that they scramble for a position. Some will still get into ACGME residencies anyway. The problem is that the number of DOs who get residencies in the scramble is not a statistic that is available. However, the AOA keeps track of those who scramble in the AOA match. While the number of DO grads matching in the AOA match has been something like 40% recently, more than 50% typically end up in an AOA slot for their first year after the scramble is over. Many of them just opt to do a traditional rotating year and re-enter the ACGME match the next year or look for open PGY2 slots. Believe it or not, there are a fair number of DO grads who did not match ACGME, did a traditional AOA year and ended up in an ACGME Family Practice residency the next year.

One of the "kind of super secret" reasons why the AOA began residency restructuring was to get some of those folks back into AOA residencies. Before last year, many of those traditional rotating slots were not linked to residencies, so it was easy to just do the internship year and still get an ACGME spot later. Now, the majority of them are no longer "stand-alone" traditional rotating slots. Now, if you want the internship slot, you have to do the whole residency (or at least the first two years, depending on the college).

 

[BeachBlondie]

Both of these are correct. While aiming to go into an allopathic residency is a legitimate goal, make sure you know why you're doing it. Orthopedic surgeons practice the same whether they come out of an allopathic residency or osteopathic one.

The was thread awhile back titled "orthopedic babies" or something along those lines. A current resident/DO graduate who's in an allopathic program now put his/her two cents in. One of the differences I remember is that osteopathic residencies tend to be more community based, while allopathic ones tend to be more research hospital based (a generalization, but a true one). So you tend to get more patient diversity and hands on work at an osteopathic one. You tend to see more interesting, out of the ordinary cases and work with cutting edge technology and research in an allopathic one. In the end, it depends on your goals.

The thread was mine. "Orthopaedic Surgery Babies"

HA!

 

[missmarymac8]

Thats the wrong video! Its actually a preview video of an osteopathic cardiothoracic fellowship program. The heart donor was a first year at DMU that didnt pass OMM.

This made me laugh pretty hard.....I'm looking forward to learning this technique in a few years!

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Pai mei teaches no one the five point palm exploding heart technique

Posted via Mobile Device

 

[hermit]

Indiana Jones IV may have been the worst movie I've seen this millennium.

 

[Chuckwalla]

So what percent of all DO's get into a residency of some sort?

 

[a817]

So what percent of all DO's get into a residency of some sort?

If you include the scramble it will be very close to a 100 percent, i think it is 99 percent to be exact.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Indiana Jones IV may have been the worst movie I've seen this millennium.

75% of the movie was solid, as was Ford's performance. The ending was a complete CGI nightmare (Lucas seriously needs to realize that over the top CGI is a complete buzzkill -see episode 3), and there were definitely some hokey parts in the film (as there were in Temple of Doom and Last Crusade), but with some minor changes it could have been the 2nd best in the series. As it stands right now, it's before Temple of Doom, but after Last Crusade, and nothing touches Raiders.

Sorry .... OP, for stuff like psyche and IM, you really, really shouldn't have a problem trying to match MD. Especially for psyche (from what I hear). However, as said before, there are solid DO residencies in both fields, especially IM because it's primary careish.

 

[a817]

75% of the movie was solid, as was Ford's performance. The ending was a complete CGI nightmare (Lucas seriously needs to realize that over the top CGI is a complete buzzkill -see episode 3), and there were definitely some hokey parts in the film (as there were in Temple of Doom and Last Crusade), but with some minor changes it could have been the 2nd best in the series. As it stands right now, it's before Temple of Doom, but after Last Crusade, and nothing touches Raiders.

Sorry .... OP, for stuff like psyche and IM, you really, really shouldn't have a problem trying to match MD. Especially for psyche (from what I hear). However, as said before, there are solid DO residencies in both fields, especially IM because it's primary careish.

Agreed, I have a few 4th yr friends who had no difficulty getting an MD IM residency. If you want ENT, nuero surgery or integrated plastics MD residency, then you have your work cut out for you. Then again those residencies aren't easy for anyone to get.

 

[fireflygirl]

Indiana Jones IV may have been the worst movie I've seen this millennium.

Not to get off topic but AMEN! WORST MOVIE EVER! I want my $10 back and 2.5 hours of my life that I lost

 

[Nasem]

not trying to sound rude but....

shouldn't you first worry about getting an acceptance from ANY medical school first before you start talking about which residency you will land ???

I mean, why don't you apply to both MD and DO schools, if all the MD schools you apply to don't accept you, but in the same time you start getting DO acceptances, THEN you can come here and post a thread like this.... until your in this position, it really don't make a difference what people tell you..... And to be perfectly honest a medical degree from the united states is golden thing to have regardless of what residency program (allo or osteo) you end up landing....

 

[desijigga]

Won't there be a major shortage of physicians in the country by 2015 or something. (I read somewhere almost 15,000 by 2020 in MI).

So won't this mean they will have to add more residency spots to deal with the shortage?

 

[Chuckwalla]

not trying to sound rude but....

shouldn't you first worry about getting an acceptance from ANY medical school first before you start talking about which residency you will land ???

I mean, why don't you apply to both MD and DO schools, if all the MD schools you apply to don't accept you, but in the same time you start getting DO acceptances, THEN you can come here and post a thread like this.... until your in this position, it really don't make a difference what people tell you..... And to be perfectly honest a medical degree from the united states is golden thing to have regardless of what residency program (allo or osteo) you end up landing....

Yeah, totally. What was thinking asking a question about the future?

 

[scpod]

So won't this mean they will have to add more residency spots to deal with the shortage?

Funding is the problem. Existing residencies are capped by law, so they can't just add spots. New residencies can be opened but it takes a lot of upfront money. The hospital I'm rotating in this year has talked about either an IM/EM or FP/EM residency...but they need a half million of startup costs. They had planned to get it from the sale of their old property...but real estate values have crashed in Florida. The state is being kind of tight right now too. So...maybe it will happen someday, and maybe not.

 

[MossPoh]

Florida being "kind of" tight in the funds department is an understatement. Interesting that it is rough for everyone though

 

[JaggerPlate]

I would assume with the state of money/healthcare/the economy in general, residencies are not going to start popping up any time soon.

 

[matyd]

Though I don't know the whole deal or even understand it fully, our ED is going to be asking for 2 more spots this coming year... I don't think it has to do with law, here anyways (Oklahoma). I think it is up to the AOA to grant the spots... I may be wrong...

 

[Livingapparatus]

why would you want to do MD residencies when theres DO residencies for all specialties?

or am I wrong about presuming this?

 

[toothless rufus]

why Would You Want To Do Md Residencies When Theres Do Residencies For All Specialties?

Or Am I Wrong About Presuming This?

Location!!

 

[Lamborghini1315]

why would you want to do MD residencies when theres DO residencies for all specialties?

or am I wrong about presuming this?

Supply and demand...you go to a DO school, you get a great education, you realize wow i can be a radiologist because reading x-rays, mri's, ct's just comes naturally. Then comes the time to apply for residencies you realize there are 10 radiology spots available throughout the country and you have idk a few thousand great passionate DO friends who too want to be a radiologist unfortunately for you. So what you thinking now? Also to make it even better these 10 spots might be in places so far away from your family that you might have to take a flight, ferry to visit your friends or family. You get the idea?

 

[Livingapparatus]

Supply and demand...you go to a DO school, you get a great education, you realize wow i can be a radiologist because reading x-rays, mri's, ct's just comes naturally. Then comes the time to apply for residencies you realize there are 10 radiology spots available throughout the country and you have idk a few thousand great passionate DO friends who too want to be a radiologist unfortunately for you. So what you thinking now? Also to make it even better these 10 spots might be in places so far away from your family that you might have to take a flight, ferry to visit your friends or family. You get the idea?

got it

 

[Livingapparatus]

Thats really unfortunate, I have been weighing DO against MD for a while but that really gives MD a leg up.

Although I have met a couple DO otolaryngology surgeons and anesthesiologists. As long as its not impossible...

 

[JaggerPlate]

Thats really unfortunate, I have been weighing DO against MD for a while but that really gives MD a leg up.

Although I have met a couple DO otolaryngology surgeons and anesthesiologists. As long as its not impossible...

Don't think of DO as shutting the door to any specialty, because this is not true. Sometimes people make it seem like you can waltz into an MD school, do whatever for 4 years, then mapquest an integrated plastics residency in your current zip code and sign up the next day. This isn't the case. Most people have to apply all over to match for both MD and DO. It's stupid to limit yourself to one geographical region no matter what route you are going because it just messes with your chances. Are there more MD residencies located all over??? Yes, of course. However, if you work hard and really want to become an ENT or gas man (as you mentioned earlier) you might have to go to MI or somewhere to complete your residency but at the end of the day you are still a doctor in the field you wish to practice in, no matter what you did to get there. It is probably easier via the MD route, but some people don't have or want that option and that does NOT mean that you can't accomplish your exact same goals via a DO degree. Just keep that in mind ...

 

[a817]

Some people like MD residencies, because more of them are affiliated with large hospitals, universities, good research, more academic medicine, etc. While DO residencies are more community oriented.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

There are some pretty stout AOA-accredited programs. Programs that can train you as well as anywhere.

Posted via Mobile Device

 

[a817]

There are some pretty stout AOA-accredited programs. Programs that can train you as well as anywhere.

Posted via Mobile Device

Oh i didn't say they weren't, they are plenty of large DO hospitals. I just meant there are more md residencies that are into academic medicine, etc. due to that not being the main priority for the DO mission, and just being more MD residencies out there.

 

[Chuckwalla]

Some people like MD residencies, because more of them are affiliated with large hospitals, universities, good research, more academic medicine, etc. While DO residencies are more community oriented.

This is exactly why I want to do a MD residency. I have a strong interest in academic medicine. I do not need to be at Harvard or anything, but I would like to optimize my chances to do it somewhere else.

 

[a817]

This is exactly why I want to do a MD residency. I have a strong interest in academic medicine. I do not need to be at Harvard or anything, but I would like to optimize my chances to do it somewhere else.

I wouldnt worry insanely about getting psyc or imed allopathic residencies. Just do well in school

 

[JaggerPlate]

This is exactly why I want to do a MD residency. I have a strong interest in academic medicine. I do not need to be at Harvard or anything, but I would like to optimize my chances to do it somewhere else.

If you want academic medicine in IM or Psych I think shooting for an MD residency from a DO school is a good decision and very obtainable. Just work hard, shoot for the stars, treat every obstacle as an opportunity, generic motivational phrase ... etc. I really think you shouldn't completely disregard DO residencies though because there are some very solid programs.

 

[WBDO]

My understanding is that allopathic residencies are (yes, without exception) preferable to osteopathic residencies for the simple reason of, and please note this, job opportunities.

Many, many osteopaths will complain about this to no end (and rightfully so in my humble opinion because we all learn the medicine out of the same books, right). Don't shoot the messenger.

wbdo

 

[GregsAnatomy]

My understanding is that allopathic residencies are (yes, without exception) preferable to osteopathic residencies for the simple reason of, and please note this, job opportunities.

Many, many osteopaths will complain about this to no end (and rightfully so in my humble opinion because we all learn the medicine out of the same books, right). Don't shoot the messenger.

*shoots the messenger*

 

[MossPoh]

My understanding is that allopathic residencies are (yes, without exception) preferable to osteopathic residencies for the simple reason of, and please note this, job opportunities.

Many, many osteopaths will complain about this to no end (and rightfully so in my humble opinion because we all learn the medicine out of the same books, right). Don't shoot the messenger.

wbdo

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.


And no, job opportunities aren't harder. I have no idea where you get that Mr. or Ms. 3 post WBDO.

 

[WBDO]

Sing it, sister. I hate it too.