What happens to the 20,000 people who dont get in.

[bearforce]

Well this tread is regarding those rejections every year. Just for my own edification, what happens to those 20,000 people who don't get in each year? I know some reapply.. but all don't get in second cycle, do they become PhDs or just drop it all together. You really don't hear people talk about how they tried to become doctors and didn't make it, but there has to be a significant amount of people out there who have this experience.... Leave your comments and thoughts.

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[bamtuba]

Well this treat is regarding those rejections every year. Just for my own edification, what happens to those 20,000 people who don't get in each year? I know some reapply.. but all don't get in second cycle, do they become PhDs or just drop it all together. You really don't hear people talk about how they tried to become doctors and didn't make it, but there has to be a significant amount of people out there who have this experience.... Leave your comments and thoughts.

It's like any other hyper-competitive field. Those who don't get in either get their stuff in order or they don't get in, no matter how many times they apply.

The reality is that people either figure out what they need to do and do it, get really lucky through persistence (which is a version of the first point), or they move on with their life and find something that makes them happy, or not. Life goes on.

 

[adeline]

do, carib, re apply md, phd, say **** it, go nursing/pa/ems

 

[Count Chocula]

I read somewhere that as many as a third of all applicants in any given year are reapplicants (so around 15,000 or so)

 

[BlueElmo]

I heard they just all... die.

 

[MsKrispyKreme]

Most become nurses or even worse....PhDs.

 

[musicaldna]

They move on with life. Look at the people around you, profs, teachers, nurses, pharmacists, customer service reps, CEOs...

many of them, at some point in life, might have wanted to be/and tried to be doctors...

who knows...you cant tell

 

[red10]

witness protection program

 

[gbu730]

Most become nurses or even worse....PhDs.

Why sad face for PhD?? I know research is what's drawing me to pursue medicine. It gives me so much joy and always has a special place in my heart.

 

[david594]

You really don't hear people talk about how they tried to become doctors and didn't make it, but there has to be a significant amount of people out there who have this experience.... Leave your comments and thoughts.

How many people really go around talking about how they failed at things in life?

There are probably easily as many people who went into college freshman year saying they wanted to be a doctor and never ended up applying.

 

[atomi]

-

 

[bamtuba]

How many people really go around talking about how they failed at things in life?

At least one according to your signature

Of course that's barring the acceptance...

 

[not so calm now]

The good looking ones become drug reps.

 

[red10]

The good looking ones become drug reps.

there are some seriously hot drug reps as I recall from volunteering. And they always brought food!
If thats the case, its too bad they don't get into med school because they're obviously charismatic and I wouldn't mind having a hot doctor

 

[not so calm now]

there are some seriously hot drug reps as I recall from volunteering. And they always brought food!
If thats the case, its too bad they don't get into med school because they're obviously charismatic and I wouldn't mind having a hot doctor

Hahaha, I know 3 drug reps who tried to get into med school before starting their jobs. I'm sure countless more at least considered it.

Also, I'm interested in how many people apply to both DO and MD schools. I wonder how many out of that 20,000 get a DO acceptance.

Just from reading SDN, I'm gonna extrapolate that 90% of DO applicants also are MD applicants.

 

[koennen]

They're heard greeting people with, "Do you want fries with that burger?"

 

[teenmachinery1]

I heard they just all... die.

Here's the breakdown of the 20,000 of those who get rejected.

10,000 = die
10,000 = reapply and fail and die

i hope this sheds some light on this topic.

 

[Evergrey]

Why sad face for PhD?? I know research is what's drawing me to pursue medicine. It gives me so much joy and always has a special place in my heart.

Wouldn't a MD/PhD or PhD be more appropriate than an MD then?

 

[Aggro]

They get their JD's and specialize in malpractice suits so they can take out their years of pent-up rage on those that succeeded while they failed miserably.

 

[bruceleehiiiyaa]

They get their JD's and specialize in malpractice suits so they can take out their years of pent-up rage on those that succeeded while they failed miserably.

**** yeah. if obamamamacare becomes bad news for doctors, thats what i'm going to do with my MD. instead of spending like 5 years doing a residency, i can spend 3 years getting a JD and then...RULE THE WORLD.

 

[Googleman]

They're heard greeting people with, "Do you want fries with that burger?"

Hey, go to hell, prick. Just because you were able to go to college and now you're in a cushy medical school that **** doesn't mean you're better than anyone else.

I hope your future patients are able to see your posts when you become a doctor.

 

[adeline]

Hey, go to hell, prick. Just because you were able to go to college and now you're in a cushy medical school that **** doesn't mean you're better than anyone else.

I hope your future patients are able to see your posts when you become a doctor.

Dude.

CHILL.

 

[dru2002]

Hey, go to hell, prick. Just because you were able to go to college and now you're in a cushy medical school that **** doesn't mean you're better than anyone else.

I hope your future patients are able to see your posts when you become a doctor.

Take a joke. wowzer!

 

[DrJosephKim]

Many of my colleagues went to business school, into pharma/biotech, consulting, or to dental school.

 

[TopSecret]

Some become chiropractors, PA's, nurses, and naturopaths.

 

[Van Chowder]

Hmm, they are most certainly better off, I mean don't get me wrong, getting into medical school isn't easy, by any means, but it is also far from impossible. If you want it enough you can grab a 3.3/29 MCAT and go DO.
If you cant do that, motivation must be lacking from jump street.
So I hope they all take it as a blessing in disguise before they are wallowing in debt.

 

[Van Chowder]

don't you think that's a little short-sighted?

No, its being realistic.. Im not a medical student, but lets face it, if people cant somewhat manage the pre req's , how do they expect to do in medical school? Of course there are always exceptions, such as those with non-academic issues that may interfere.

 

[DRIN]

Well this tread is regarding those rejections every year. Just for my own edification, what happens to those 20,000 people who don't get in each year? I know some reapply.. but all don't get in second cycle, do they become PhDs or just drop it all together. You really don't hear people talk about how they tried to become doctors and didn't make it, but there has to be a significant amount of people out there who have this experience.... Leave your comments and thoughts.

They start major ice cream companies much like Ben and Jerry's co-founder Jerry Greenfield did.

 

[DRIN]

Some become chiropractors, PA's, nurses, and naturopaths.

I knew a girl who couldn't even get into optometry school and went chiro .

 

[Mitch556]

I knew a girl who couldn't even get into optometry school and went chiro .

Real funny

 

[BozoSparky]

the people who don't get into medical school will have a LIFE...

just kidding of course...i bet quite a few go into science. doing a whole phd would take some real passion, though. it's not really something you just do for fun.

 

[Polycarp]

I was chatting with one of the physical therapists I volunteer with and he mentioned that he had applied to med school back in the day. He is a really smart, charismatic guy who is great with the patients (and he always explains things to me, which is fascinating), so I can't see why he didn't get in...

 

[Vihsadas]

the people who don't get into medical school will have a LIFE...

just kidding of course...i bet quite a few go into science. doing a whole phd would take some real passion, though. it's not really something you just do for fun.

Or as a "backup" alternative to going into medicine. I get the feeling that a lot of freshmen and sophmores don't really understand that the training track for PhD students (with the end goal being a proferssorhip) is usually longer (and way more competitive to land a position in a job at a uni) than training as a physician:

MD w/license = 4yrs med school + 4-7 yrs residency (approx.) = 8 - 11 yrs.
PhD w/prof = 5-7 yrs PhD program, + 3-4 yrs post-doc one + 3-4 yrs post-doc two + 3-4 yrs post-doc three (provided you don't get a professorship after your second post-doc which seems to be the case more often than not.)
So it's somewhere in the vicinity of 11 - 19 yrs.

 

[T12]

How about compiling a list of people that became dramatically more successful in life because they did NOT become a doctor as they originally planned? Interesting idea, I think....

Dikembe Mutombo comes to mind.

 

[Forthegood]

MD w/license = 4yrs med school + 4-7 yrs residency (approx.) = 8 - 11 yrs.
PhD w/prof = 5-7 yrs PhD program, + 3-4 yrs post-doc one + 3-4 yrs post-doc two + 3-4 yrs post-doc three (provided you don't get a professorship after your second post-doc which seems to be the case more often than not.)
So it's somewhere in the vicinity of 11 - 19 yrs.

Very good. I haven't seen a post so inaccurate and biased in quite a while.

Actually, there is this little stint called internship that is usually 1 or 2 years before residency. And then, what do you know, there is another little thing called fellowship (much like a post-doc) after residency.

And don't even act like post-docs are required. That's totally bs. One of my good buddies just got his PhD in Biochem, and IMMEDIATELY got a job at a big pharma company, after declining an interim professorship at my large public research university.

Post-doc is only a requirement for some. Much like the fellowship training (and some residencies).

And this whole playing the years thing. Quantity is not the same thing as quality.

Getting a professorship is also not as difficult, again, its a quality thing. The applicant pool is considerably weaker.

 

[adeline]

.... internship is part of residency...

Getting and keeping a good acad job, much less promotion, can be quite difficult. Unless you're content being a lecturer.

 

[Generic Student]

They apply again, and again, and again only learning from the final rejection to get their affairs in order. Then they create a generic username and abandon the old username to continue posting on SDN.

The story ends with an MD acceptance, hopefully.

 

[ziggydoc]

They apply again, and again, and again only learning from the final rejection to get their affairs in order. Then they create a generic username and abandon the old username to continue posting on SDN.

The story ends with an MD acceptance, hopefully.

LOL, well I hope that story ends with an MD acceptance as well.

 

[malpractician]

i'll probably go get an MBA and make more money and work less... you know.. the sane choice a person would make in this healthcare fiasco

i'll probably apply 3 times max, if i can't get it then, i'll move on.

 

[Count Chocula]

How about compiling a list of people that became dramatically more successful in life because they did NOT become a doctor as they originally planned? Interesting idea, I think....

Dikembe Mutombo comes to mind.

Mutombo was so sweet

 

[thesauce]

Wouldn't a MD/PhD or PhD be more appropriate than an MD then?

Nooooooooooo! Please stop propagating this!

Most physician-scientists are MDs, not MD/PhDs. Even if you just want to do basic science research, an MD is still better than a PhD because you'll command twice the salary for the same job! I've spent a number of years in research and this is a sad fact

Please don't tell people that want to do research that they should do a PhD or even an MD/PhD. Training will be faster and more lucrative with an MD only.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

Most of them reapply until they eventually get in. The rest I'm sure is totally variable.

Hmm, they are most certainly better off, I mean don't get me wrong, getting into medical school isn't easy, by any means, but it is also far from impossible. If you want it enough you can grab a 3.3/29 MCAT and go DO.
If you cant do that, motivation must be lacking from jump street.
So I hope they all take it as a blessing in disguise before they are wallowing in debt.

I don't know... I think many people hate their jobs. Ideally most physicians like their jobs, but at least if they don't they're making a comfortable living.

Earning the necessary attributes/credentials to get in requires a lot of initiative, which is the hardest part of all for me. It really sucks asking dozens of doctors to let you shadow them and searching for months to figure out a way to fit clinical volunteering in. Maybe what bothers me is how it can end up being a total waste of time even if you work hard. Seems like after you get accepted, "Those who know to learn know enough." lol. Guess I wouldn't know yet, and I've heard it compared to drinking from a firehose, but my understanding is that you really can focus on just learning your stuff in med school, which sounds so much less stressful to me, and you won't fail to make it to the next step as long as you work hard.

 

[Poliscidoc]

Well I still have 2 years... But here is my plan

Apply to Medical School if I have a GPA of 3.7 and 34 MCAT, If I have below a 3.7 or 34 I will do post bac. Apply twice to medical school if needed. If I fail 3 times, then I am going to Law School and crying my self to sleep every night..

 

[LiveUninhibited]

Well I still have 2 years... But here is my plan

Apply to Medical School if I have a GPA of 3.7 and 34 MCAT, If I have below a 3.7 or 34 I will do post bac. Apply twice to medical school if needed. If I fail 3 times, then I am going to Law School and crying my self to sleep every night..

I heard a relatively common interview question is, "What will you do if you don't get in?" Reassess my ap and reapply of course, though they could also ask what if you could not become a doctor. In which case I'd probably want to be a sociology professor or lawyer who defends doctors from lawsuits, heh. I wonder what they're looking for in that question.

 

[Poliscidoc]

I heard a relatively common interview question is, "What will you do if you don't get in?" Reassess my ap and reapply of course, though they could also ask what if you could not become a doctor. In which case I'd probably want to be a sociology professor or lawyer who defends doctors from lawsuits, heh. I wonder what they're looking for in that question.

Smart move in terms of law.

1. You will always need Doctors and lawyers.

2. And you will always have ambulance chasers

 

[Vihsadas]

Very good. I haven't seen a post so inaccurate and biased in quite a while.

Actually, there is this little stint called internship that is usually 1 or 2 years before residency. And then, what do you know, there is another little thing called fellowship (much like a post-doc) after residency.

And don't even act like post-docs are required. That's totally bs. One of my good buddies just got his PhD in Biochem, and IMMEDIATELY got a job at a big pharma company, after declining an interim professorship at my large public research university.

Post-doc is only a requirement for some. Much like the fellowship training (and some residencies).

And this whole playing the years thing. Quantity is not the same thing as quality.

Getting a professorship is also not as difficult, again, its a quality thing. The applicant pool is considerably weaker.

My post was made with the specific criteria that this particular fictitious PhD student was aiming for a professorship spot. That's why the the post-docs are included.

I'm well aware of the general structure of post-graduate medical training including internship, residency, and fellowship (Although this training track is different in Canada. Interns = "R1s"). I didn't jump on this boat without at least glancing at what's to come in the long future.
Also, as you already stated, a fellowship is not always a requirement, depending on your field and whether or not you want to sub-specialize.
So if the training time is not about 8-11 years as I stated earlier, then how long is it?

Also, quantity of training is very relevant, given the amount of time that students have to put in. There's significant opportunity loss, (and I'm not specifically referring to money) with increased training time.

 

[xmsr3]

As I understand it a good portion of those that fail to get in anywhere die and return as the undead; mindless, shambling creatures that are doomed to an eternity of moaning and feasting on the flest of the living. Or at least that is what keeps happening in my nightmares

 

[chemnerd89]

It goes something like this:[YOUTUBE]1nzd0R_OeOc[/YOUTUBE]

 

[xmsr3]

It goes something like this:[YOUTUBE]1nzd0R_OeOc[/YOUTUBE]

And those are the lucky ones!

 

[gbu730]

Wouldn't a MD/PhD or PhD be more appropriate than an MD then?

That's exactly what I'm doing. Just happened to come across this thread.