What happens when the profession is unguarded

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MCParent

MCParent

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...iot-rodger-homosexual-impulses_n_5397527.html

Fox News Guest Offers Lame Apology After Suggesting Elliot Rodger Was Fighting 'Homosexual Impulses'

The "therapist" is licensed in New York after attending an unaccredited online program:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robi_Ludwig#Professional_qualifications

"Professional qualifications
Robi Ludwig got her masters degree from the University of Pennsylvania and her post masters training and certificate from Hunter College. She received her doctor of psychology from California Southern University, a private, correspondence school[1]. She received an honorary doctorate from Cedar Crest College (where she previously received her undergraduate degree in mass communications) in May of 2009. She is a licensed and practicing psychotherapist in the state of New York."
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Hey, maybe that person from other thread can aspire to someday say something extremely unethical and unfounded by empirical evidence due to their stellar Cal Southern education!

Totally agree though, we need to be tightening standards, not loosening them to the point of absurdity. I'm pretty sure in some jurisdictions all you have to do is send in 5 proofs of purchase for Ovaltine and they'll send you a license and a Green Hornet decoder ring.
 
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MCParent said:
Heh. I was on vacation and didn't get a chance to get in on that one. Probably better that way.
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IMO, it was the most entertaining thread since the "please, I really want to strip and offer psychotherapy; that's totally cool, right?" query.

You missed out on some drama.
 
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CaliMac said:
IMO, it was the most entertaining thread since the "please, I really want to strip and offer psychotherapy; that's totally cool, right?"
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I missed out on that one too! Were the stripping and therapy separate things, or at the same time? If they are at the same time, how much is that hourly rate and does insurance cover it? If it does, I'm feeling a depressive episode coming on.
 
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CaliMac said:
IMO, it was the most entertaining thread since the "please, I really want to strip and offer psychotherapy; that's totally cool, right?" query.

You missed out on some drama.
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I didn't see THAT thread, though there has been a lot of stuff in medical education about med students resorting to questionable means to pay their bills. I probably have less of a problem with it myself than other people might. :)

I read that thread after it was locked, though. Exactly the kind of person who does this kind of insanity. "News" shows like this can always find some idiot life coach to talk, or even a person from a legit school who is just a shill. But a state board implicitly endorsing this person is everything wrong with our training.
 
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CaliMac said:
IMO, it was the most entertaining thread since the "please, I really want to strip and offer psychotherapy; that's totally cool, right?" query.

You missed out on some drama.
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I know! I was really bummed out that it was closed. I have a lot of time to kill before internship starts since I moved early ;)
 
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This is the Internet…just give it some time and someone else will pop up wanting to go to school part-time for their Ph.D., not do research, and use moonbeams and rainbow dust to treat PTSD.
 
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So, after some further discussion on the Div 44 listserv, she isn't even licensed as a psychologist in NY. She appears to be licensed as a clinical social worker (though her web site mentions that she has a doctor of psychology in the same part is says she is a "psychotherapist"; license specifics were not described anywhere I could fine them...).

Clearly those online programs produce solid gold.
 
I have flipped through the directory section of Psychology Today and been mortified by some of the offerings. There are some legitimate ones on there, but good lord are there some questionable listings. Most of the worst are from CA, though I'm sure there are plenty of "winners" elsewhere too.
 
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Guess what, guys? It doesn't matter. I am going to be putting food on my table as a practicing psychologist in San Diego, having graduated from Cal Southern's Psy.D. progam. :) I can't wait to get started. It will be the fulfillment of a lifelong dream. By the way, I have received more nasty messages in my inbox that have consisted of name-calling. Nice way to represent the field. Some of you are so very professional. So, what's next? Are you all going to find out where I live and put a bomb under my car?
 
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". . .and use moonbeams and rainbow dust to treat PTSD."

But, but, how do you know that doesn't work? If I combine it with exposure therapy, I am sure it will be effective (insert EMDR diatribe here).



"Are you all going to find out where I live and put a bomb under my car?"

That doesn't make sense. They'd need to find out where you park to do that. Obviously, I wouldn't condone said action.
 
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You are planting the bomb all yourself. you will get sued sooner than later.
 
Ah. Frame of reference :) I don't think they actually intend to go to said program.
 
lhasalover said:
Guess what, guys? It doesn't matter. I am going to be putting food on my table as a practicing psychologist in San Diego, having graduated from Cal Southern's Psy.D. progam. :) I can't wait to get started. It will be the fulfillment of a lifelong dream. By the way, I have received more nasty messages in my inbox that have consisted of name-calling. Nice way to represent the field. Some of you are so very professional. So, what's next? Are you all going to find out where I live and put a bomb under my car?
Click to expand...

Wait, what?

I didn't even realize this until now. That thread was about THIS SAME PROGRAM that this person went to?

And you're still wanting to go there??

My god.
 
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Hopefully this thread will not devolve into ridiculousness like that last one did.
 
MCParent said:
Wait, what?

I didn't even realize this until now. That thread was about THIS SAME PROGRAM that this person went to?

And you're still wanting to go there??

My god.
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Oh, MC Parent, hold onto your virtual hat; things might get interesting again. Good thing I have training tonight or I'd be neurotically SDNing.
 
Mod note: Please don't use this thread to continue conversations in closed threads, or we'll have to close this one too. Thanks!

On topic, doesn't offering a clinical opinion on a specific individual like this wander into ethical violation territory anyway?

Also, what justification could her alma marter possibly have for giving her an honorary doctorate, when most wouldn't even consider her non-honorary doctorate to be legit? Ugh.
 
futureapppsy2 said:
Mod note: Please don't use this thread to continue conversations in closed threads, or we'll have to close this one too. Thanks!

On topic, doesn't offering a clinical opinion on a specific individual like this wander into ethical violation territory anyway?

Also, what justification could her alma marter possibly have for giving her an honorary doctorate, when most wouldn't even consider her non-honorary doctorate to be legit? Ugh.
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Because the state licensing board of psychology considers it to be legit. That's the justification.

And, yes, Jon Snow. I am REALLY going to said program.
 
lhasalover said:
Because the state licensing board of psychology considers it to be legit. That's the justification.

And, yes, Jon Snow. I am REALLY going to said program.
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Can we just ban this person? Their only purpose now on this forum seems to be to try to rile people up.
 
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futureapppsy2 said:
On topic, doesn't offering a clinical opinion on a specific individual like this wander into ethical violation territory anyway?
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I learned in my ethics class (and this could be wrong so please correct if so) that yes, it is a violation to dx someone you have never treated, but that pop psych people get around that by saying things like "people who do x are often blah blah blah." So, implying the dx rather than outright stating it. I've not seen the transcript so I wouldn't know, nor do I know if social work (what she actually is) has a different standard on that.
 
MCParent said:
Well, it DOESN'T though. She is licensed as a social worker. Presumably because the Psych state board WOULDN'T license her.
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Presumably means that you are speculating. She won't get her license yanked because of this episode. She was conferred a doctorate by a university granted the authority by the GOVERNMENT. That is who makes the decisions on who can practice. Not you guys. She is a doctor of psychology. She has a right to use that title. She has a right to practice therapy under her social worker's license if she sees fit. She has a successful, thriving practice. She's happy. I don't see the problem.
 
lhasalover said:
Presumably means that you are speculating. She won't get her license yanked because of this episode. She was conferred a doctorate by a university granted the authority by the GOVERNMENT. That is who makes the decisions on who can practice. Not you guys. She is a doctor of psychology. She has a right to use that title. She has a right to practice therapy under her social worker's license if she sees fit. She has a successful, thriving practice. She's happy. I don't see the problem.
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Heh. Well, actually the state boards get to decide who gets to practice.

NY's board unfortunately does not appear to me to keep a record of applications (I think ethical violations are required to be reported and I didn't find that either, so maybe it's buried somewhere I didn't see). It is possible that she never applied for licensure with her terminal degree and used the SW license instead. If you want to make an actuarial decision that that is the most likely sequence of events, that's fascinating to me.
 
Hey now, this "psychologist" probably got a solid education, what with the 3 credit-hour courses in "Dream Analysis," "Myers-Briggs Type Indicator," and "Writing, Publishing, and Promoting a Self-Help Book."

As a (future) psychologist, and as an unabashed liberal, and as a gay man... there are so many things about her statement that make me angry. Even if she did half-assedly apologize (which she did).
 
On topic: considering that she ISN'T licensed as a psych, perhaps I'm wrong and this is actually a very pleasant example of a state board doing a GOOD job of protecting the profession and the public. She's sort of social work's problem so far as her clinical opinions, not ours.
 
MCParent said:
Heh. Well, actually the state boards get to decide who gets to practice.
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That's what I said.

NY's board unfortunately does not appear to me to keep a record of applications (I think ethical violations are required to be reported and I didn't find that either, so maybe it's buried somewhere I didn't see). It is possible that she never applied for licensure with her terminal degree and used the SW license instead. If you want to make an actuarial decision that that is the most likely sequence of events, that's fascinating to me.
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You're really doing some digging there aren't you? Well, good luck in finding anything.

Most of you are ready to die on this hill, then die you will. Times have changed and there are those who are willing to take advantage of what we are allowed by the state to do. Nothing wrong with that. The APA is taking handouts and being the diploma mills' *****, but you all are going to preach to people about the need to go to APA accredited programs?? Good luck with that.

I hear the crickets chirping in here...Lol.
 
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In the state of NY, anyone with supervised 'clinical hours' earned at a 'psychotherapy institute' with a Master's degree in anything can become a 'licensed psychoanalyst.' Here are the licensing requirements: http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/mhp/psyanllic.htm

This particular license boils my blood because REAL psychoanalysts usually have doctorates PLUS an additional 5-7 years of analytic post-doctoral training which also requires the applicant to undergo 3-years minimum of analysis themselves (which is technically 3-5x sessions per week!) in order to complete the requirements. Allan Schore & Philip Bromberg, these people are not even close to touching, which points back to the dilemma of States operating at minimal standards in a profession. The message seems to be "Excellence is in the mind of the beholder."
 
LETSGONYR said:
Hey now, this "psychologist" probably got a solid education, what with the 3 credit-hour courses in "Dream Analysis," "Myers-Briggs Type Indicator," and "Writing, Publishing, and Promoting a Self-Help Book."

As a (future) psychologist, and as an unabashed liberal, and as a gay man... there are so many things about her statement that make me angry. Even if she did half-assedly apologize (which she did).
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What didn't you like about her statement?
 
http://www.calsouthern.edu/content/blog/new-faculty-join-school-of-behavioral-sciences/

Three esteemed individuals in the field joining the faculty in the school of behavioral sciences where Dr. Ludwig earned her doctorate. One hails from Stanford, two from Harvard. One would think that if it was such a "garbage school" with such a "garbage program", such individuals wouldn't want to be associated with it. Just saying.

There those crickets go again...
 
CheetahGirl said:
It is called "selling out." Everyone needs a job somewhere...unless you are independently wealthy or living off certain social systems.
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:zip:

Dr. Barratt comes to CalSouthern originally from Johannesburg, South Africa. He earned his PhD in Personality and Developmental Psychology from Harvard University and an additional PhD/DHS (Doctor of Human Sexuality) degree from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality, San Francisco, California. He is also a member of the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists and a certified sex therapist. As founder and former executive director of the Midwest Institute of Sexology, Dr. Barratt has been a clinical educator and psychotherapeutic provider for more than 30 years.

Dr. Thierry Kolpin earned his doctorate in counseling psychology from Stanford University. Dr. Kolpin is enthusiastic about supporting CalSouthern learners and, with 24 years of teaching experience at the university level, he has a clear understanding of what it takes to help students reach their academic goals. He has served on the faculties of institutions such as Santa Clara University, the University of LaVerne and California State University, Long Beach. His clinical experience over the past two decades includes work at the Jewish Children and Family Services, Stanford Counseling Institute and Treatment Research Center and the Palo Alto Unified School District. Dr. Kolpin has authored or co-authored a number of books and educational texts on addiction, counseling and career exploration. He also is an experienced and sought-after speaker, as well.

Like Dr. Barratt, Dr. Melvin Moore is a graduate of Harvard University. Since earning his PhD in clinical psychology, Dr. Moore has impacted his community through the treatment of behavior-disordered and traumatized children and adolescents. A highlight of his 25 years of clinical practice is his critical role in the development of Rapid Change Therapy (RCT), an integrative therapeutic approach that utilizes cognitive behavioral, solution-focused and neurobehavioral therapeutic techniques and strategies to bring about change. He also has extensive experience working with adolescents and the incarcerated, specializing in trauma, addiction and stress management, among other areas.
 
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lhasalover said:
:zip:

Dr. Barratt comes to CalSouthern originally from Johannesburg, South Africa. He earned his PhD in Personality and Developmental Psychology from Harvard University and an additional PhD/DHS (Doctor of Human Sexuality) degree from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality, San Francisco, California. He is also a member of the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists and a certified sex therapist. As founder and former executive director of the Midwest Institute of Sexology, Dr. Barratt has been a clinical educator and psychotherapeutic provider for more than 30 years.

Dr. Thierry Kolpin earned his doctorate in counseling psychology from Stanford University. Dr. Kolpin is enthusiastic about supporting CalSouthern learners and, with 24 years of teaching experience at the university level, he has a clear understanding of what it takes to help students reach their academic goals. He has served on the faculties of institutions such as Santa Clara University, the University of LaVerne and California State University, Long Beach. His clinical experience over the past two decades includes work at the Jewish Children and Family Services, Stanford Counseling Institute and Treatment Research Center and the Palo Alto Unified School District. Dr. Kolpin has authored or co-authored a number of books and educational texts on addiction, counseling and career exploration. He also is an experienced and sought-after speaker, as well.

Like Dr. Barratt, Dr. Melvin Moore is a graduate of Harvard University. Since earning his PhD in clinical psychology, Dr. Moore has impacted his community through the treatment of behavior-disordered and traumatized children and adolescents. A highlight of his 25 years of clinical practice is his critical role in the development of Rapid Change Therapy (RCT), an integrative therapeutic approach that utilizes cognitive behavioral, solution-focused and neurobehavioral therapeutic techniques and strategies to bring about change. He also has extensive experience working with adolescents and the incarcerated, specializing in trauma, addiction and stress management, among other areas.
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You're not going to convince anyone that this is a quality program. You can try to convince yourself, but the reality is that it's subpar, unregulated training that has the potential to harm the public. End of story. The last thread on this was closed, so please stop hijacking this thread. It's really unproductive at this point, as you clearly don't care to actually listen to the advice that you originally asked for.
 
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psycscientist said:
You're not going to convince anyone that this is a quality program. You can try to convince yourself, but the reality is that it's subpar, unregulated training that has the potential to harm the public. End of story. The last thread on this was closed, so please stop hijacking this thread. It's really unproductive at this point, as you clearly don't care to actually listen to the advice that you originally asked for.
Click to expand...

I am not hijacking this thread. You all have made it about where Dr. Ludwig earned her doctorate. That is what it's been about from the beginning. The training/education from this program is good enough to put a qualified professional clinical psychologist in the field to practice. It is authorized, legitimized and legalized by the STATE.
 
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lhasalover said:
I am not hijacking this thread. You all have made it about where Dr. Ludwig earned her doctorate. That is what it's been about from the beginning.
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The purpose of the thread is about what poor training in general leads to. She and that program are certainly an example of that. You made it about you going to that program again and tried to revive the previously closed thread where you seemed intent on unproductive arguing. You clearly just don't know what you don't know and are not willing to be educated about the realities of this field. Your posts are not going to convince any well-trained psychologist to change their opinions about this program - you are really only further highlighting why these programs are so dangerous.
 
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If you're posting their bios to impress, it is pointless (you should see my bio as it stands...I can make myself look like I was co-founder of new standard of care procedures in the field of vascular surgery, as well as instrumental in developing informational kiosks for genetic increased cancer risk). So what!? It's not how you write your bio...it's how you carry yourself on a day-to-day basis. In the world of academia and clinical training, these folks are not impressive by holding their faculty postions at a diploma mill...like I said, they are selling out.

I'm checking out of this thread...it's bedtime for us on the East Coast. Insomnia 'ya later, folks!
 
lhasalover said:
I am not hijacking this thread. You all have made it about where Dr. Ludwig earned her doctorate. That is what it's been about from the beginning. The training/education from this program is good enough to put a qualified professional clinical psychologist in the field to practice. It is authorized, legitimized and legalized by the STATE.
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She's not a psychologist. She legally cannot call herself one.
 
CheetahGirl said:
If you're posting their bios to impress, it is pointless (you should see my bio as it stands...I can make myself look like I was co-founder of new standard of care procedures in the field of vascular surgery, as well as instrumental in developing informational kiosks for genetic increased cancer risk. So what!? It's not how you write your bio...it's how you carry yourself on a day-to-day basis. In the world of academia and clinical training, these folks are not impressive by holding their faculty potions as a diploma mill.

I'm checking out of this thread...it's bedtime for us on the East Coast. Insomnia 'ya later, folks!
Click to expand...

Did you graduate from Harvard or Stanford? Are you published, and recognized in the field to the extent that these esteemed individuals are? C'mon, Cheetahgirl. Can you even hold a candle to these individuals?? Um...didn't think so. STILL they made a cognizant decision to join the faculty at Cal Southern.

:banana:
 
lhasalover said:
She's a Doctor of Psychology. She can call herself that. Just saying.

:zip:
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That's a protected title in most states. You have to be licensed at the doctoral level to call yourself a psychologist (unless you are a school psychologist in some states). She is not. This is why she calls herself a "psychotherapist."
 
lhasalover said:
What didn't you like about her statement?
Click to expand...

Okay, I'll bite. I wasn't going to reply to you, but this is at least on topic, so I'll give it a shot.

For those of you who haven't seen or heard of her comments, here are a few articles (I realize that HuffPost isn't the most unbiased source, but they do have video of her remarks, so feel free to ignore the article and just watch the video if you prefer):
Initial Remarks: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...9279.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices&ir=Gay Voices
Apology: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...7527.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices&ir=Gay Voices
Being let go by Coldwell Banker: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...impulses_n_5398404.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

In my opinion... there are many problems with her statements. First... she is attempting to diagnose someone that she has never met, of whom she has not conducted an evaluation. That, right there, is a big ethical violation. You just cannot do that, and it does not help the legitimacy of the field.

Secondly... there are enough people that link homosexuality to drugs, pedophilia, incest, diseases, etc. etc. without any scientific justification. LGBT people have hard lives because of unfounded stigma, and passing off ludicrous conspiracy theories saying that "homosexual desires" can lead to mass murder is not helping things.

There is absolutely nothing scientific about anything she says. She doesn't even attempt to back up what she's saying- she is not interested in advancing valid theories about the nature of violence, or anything... she just wants to get on TV babble for no reason and without regard for who she hurts.

Lastly... and this one relates to my politics, yes, but I don't like that Fox News even invites people like this on their shows. I mean... there's a reason that Fox News viewers are consistently the least informed, knowing less about issues than people who watch no news at all.
 
Um...I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night...does that count? And yes, regardless of where I slept, I can hold a candle to them...and I haven't even defended my dissertation yet. ;)
lhasalover said:
Did you graduate from Harvard or Stanford? Are you published, and recognized in the field to the extent that these esteemed individuals are? C'mon, Cheetahgirl. Can you even hold a candle to these individuals?? Um...didn't think so. STILL they made a cognizant decision to join the faculty at Cal Southern.

:banana:
Click to expand...
 
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