What Is A Dentists Starting Salary? Please Help!!!

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dental poopie

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I have heard so many different responses.

Exactly how much does a dentist fresh out of dental school make?
Listen to the audio on this site:

http://www.careers.iptv.org/people_detail.cfm?pplID=331&occID=146

This dentist says that dentists start out between $50,000 to $70,000 depending where they work. Also, I just shadowed a dentist in my hometown and he just hired a girl out of dental school and he told me that she should expect to make up to $70,000 this year is she is willing to put in the hours.

So many people have told me that dentists start around $70,000. I thought for sure that a DDS would start out more than that!

CAN SOMEONE please clarify this for me?

Please lets not get into something where people are tellin me not to do this for the money, etc.

I am going to do this anyway, and I have already been accepted, however
I just want clarification as to the salary issue!


THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE HELP!
:thumbup:

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if you are confident, and are able to open your own clinic..depending how good you are at attracting patients..the money has no limit!! --70 thousand..are you kidding me...if you are working for someone then yeah...other than that.. heck no!
 
joooj86 said:
if you are confident, and are able to open your own clinic..depending how good you are at attracting patients..the money has no limit!! --70 thousand..are you kidding me...if you are working for someone then yeah...other than that.. heck no!





Oh I meant,

How much would I expect to make if I got my degree today and was offered a job tomorrow at a dental office.


WE HAVE TO BE REALISTIC, we are not going to be able to MAGICALLY open our own dental office the first week out of dental school. We will have so many loans, SCHOOL, CARS, HOUSE, ETC....

So we will all probably have to at least work for another dentist for a year or so. RIGHT?

I dont know, tell me what you guys think.


I would think we would have to work for another dentist for a couple of years just for the additional experience. Am I right?

I don't know, please advise.
 
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Keep in mind that the dentist interviewed is a Iowa practicing dentist. I'm sure city based offices will offer more then the 50-70K salary.

Location plays a factor when considering salaries.
 
fouyboy said:
Keep in mind that the dentist interviewed is a Iowa practicing dentist. I'm sure city based offices will offer more then the 50-70K salary.

Location plays a factor when considering salaries.










certainly I agree. But can you answer my questions as well?

Ill make sure not to go to Iowa!
 
Honestly, i dont know the exact number. i have been on SDN.net for awhile now and have seen so many different sources stating an avg salary.

Wallstreet Journal (sorry dont have the link) stated that dentist are averaging around 170K, but some other sources claim about 130K (i think ADA). Keep in mind the date of the published sources and their data pool. ALso, be aware, for every statistic you get, dont carve it in stone. Some stats are regional, and some sources arent too specific where they got the data.

All in all, there is no clear number for the average salary. To get a better idea of the average salary, you will have to do a more specific research, narrowing the city and location you want to practice.

I'm sure i didnt answer your question with a $number, but i hope i have given you some insight and direction



dental poopie said:
certainly I agree. But can you answer my questions as well?

Ill make sure not to go to Iowa!
 
the dentists in my area (central coast california) ranges from 50k - 1 mil a year.

and of course, the wealthiest dentists I know who actually made some real money and not like 75k chump change a year.... all used the money they made from their practices to finance business endeavors or investments....
 
WOW, 50k a year!!!


So is it really worth the money and 4-year commitment of additional learning to get out of college and only make around $50,000 a year !!!


I thought I was getting into a more lucrative field than that. I am gettin seriously worried.

Gonna have $200,000 in student loans, Prob $150,000 in loan for a home, I know Ill need a new car $25,000, and What if I want to start my own business - $300,000 start-up costs.

So I am looking at owing $675,000 in loans to make under $100,000 ???



My god am I doing the right thing?


Someone here at SDN please comment to make me feel otherwise I beg you!

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
if you're looking for money then of course not. I was warned (by 2 local dentists and family friends) that going into the field is equivalent to giving up a significant amount of future potential earnings, basically you're giving yourself a pay cut. But of course, if you haven't gotten an inkling of talent for the world outside of academia some kind of professional school's will probably be good for you.

But then again... it allows you certain freedoms in work hours and location.

dear god if you want to make money go into finance where salaries are based on %s rather than number....
 
The money in dentistry is fine.

Who cares if you make 70,000 your first year if you are making 350,000 during your 8th year.

You start at some level and slowly gain from there. Its a great profession and one that will be the envy of many in 10-15 years.
 
A new graduate usually started at 70k to 150k....it is depend on the clinic location and how hard your boss squeeze you. my bro has a friend got pay 150k per year but he sees 40 patients per day by his self. He is the only dentist in the office. A new graduate has to handle such heavy load....it cannot be good. so far he estimated he is having AT LEAST two potential law suit againsting him...he has not work for a year yet.
 
dental poopie said:
WOW, 50k a year!!!


So is it really worth the money and 4-year commitment of additional learning to get out of college and only make around $50,000 a year !!!


I thought I was getting into a more lucrative field than that. I am gettin seriously worried.

Gonna have $200,000 in student loans, Prob $150,000 in loan for a home, I know Ill need a new car $25,000, and What if I want to start my own business - $300,000 start-up costs.

So I am looking at owing $675,000 in loans to make under $100,000 ???



My god am I doing the right thing?


Someone here at SDN please comment to make me feel otherwise I beg you!


Earth to dental poopie...am I coming in clear?

Dude, stop worrying so much. Most of us are going to have to be paying off our loans and other debts for up to 20 years after we get out of dental school. Our debts are not going to be magically disappearing after one or two years of working in the real world. It takes time...


Just take a chill pill, and enjoy the ride... :smuggrin:
 
If you are looking at dentistry strictly because of income, you may want to re-evaluate your career choice. For one, don't look at what people report as salaries. For starters, a dentist in a private practice may pay himself a decent salary, say $80k, and then make up for it by paying himself in dividends. Obviously, the more one makes, the more one pays in taxes. So, many dentists may prefer paying themselves lower to avoid being taxed to death.

People seem to forget that a private practice is definitely a business. Not only will you be practicing dentistry, but you will also be the ceo, financial officer, the hr manager, etc of your "company".

And as far as working for someone else when you get out of dental school, that is just a personal choice. I for one hope that I have the confidence in myself after dental school to strike out on my own.
 
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The dentist I shadowed gave me his exact figures. He just started his third year practicing. Both years are from associating--northern NJ.

year 1: $96,000
year 2: $186,000

he expects to make almost 300k this year.
 
Oh boy, this topic is an on-going disease on SDN.
 
To comment on if you want to make money you should " go into finance". That is a misconception. You
would be in great surprise if you think that. Things are different now. There is no such thing as easy money.
You cannot expect that make 100000+ in finance just like that. With everything, you need to be
good at it and do what you like. Nowadays, getting an MBA does not guarantee you 100K+. I know
people with MBAs who make far below 100K+ and went to very good schools. MBAs now are a dime a dozen.

Also my friends who are in investment banking (ie Goldman Sachs) work hours from 8am-3am in NYC. And one of them
moved to Houston thinking it would be better hours. It is not. Being in Houston, you need to be in the office at 7 am
and work til 3 am. This is a 6 day work week.
 
dental poopie said:
Oh I meant,

How much would I expect to make if I got my degree today and was offered a job tomorrow at a dental office.

That depends on how much the office can pay you based on their past income, patient base, need for help, overhead, and how much additional revenue you can generate.

$70k is certainly a possibility, and $120k is also a possibility. An established dentist in the dental forum said new graduates shouldn't ask for less than $120 when they go out, and that he believes new grads are worth $140k from a production standpoint.

MANY will earn a % of generated fees, and often lab fees will be deducted out of that. Others will earn a % of collected fees (production and collection are two different ballgames for many practices).
 
Last year student's got straight salary $100,000 or 25% or production at a corporate dental place. Some of those production people are making only 50,000 but others are making 120,000. I only know one person who made the 50K and he's quit already. I know of 2 people who associated at a private office. One has already failed, the other is on their way to make $140,000 this year.
 
Who know how much a GPR pays (back it with links if possible)? Many of us NY grads (SB,Buf,NYU,CU) may have to do it if we dont have another spec. or move out fo state.
 
paolorossifan said:
Who know how much a GPR pays (back it with links if possible)? Many of us NY grads (SB,Buf,NYU,CU) may have to do it if we dont have another spec. or move out fo state.

I don't know about the national average, but UCSF pays around $38k.

http://dentistry.ucsf.edu/admissions/admiss_program3-gpr.html#ad6

UOP's AEGD is much lower, around $24k.

http://dental.pacific.edu/curriculum/AEGD/program_description.htm

Anyone know if AEGD residencies are always paid less?
 
mvs04 said:
if you're looking for money then of course not. I was warned (by 2 local dentists and family friends) that going into the field is equivalent to giving up a significant amount of future potential earnings, basically you're giving yourself a pay cut. But of course, if you haven't gotten an inkling of talent for the world outside of academia some kind of professional school's will probably be good for you.

But then again... it allows you certain freedoms in work hours and location.

dear god if you want to make money go into finance where salaries are based on %s rather than number....


actually I have family members who are in finance. That is NOT the way to go. I know that from seeing their lifestyles.
 
sokkerpunk said:
If you are looking at dentistry strictly because of income, you may want to re-evaluate your career choice. For one, don't look at what people report as salaries. For starters, a dentist in a private practice may pay himself a decent salary, say $80k, and then make up for it by paying himself in dividends. Obviously, the more one makes, the more one pays in taxes. So, many dentists may prefer paying themselves lower to avoid being taxed to death.

People seem to forget that a private practice is definitely a business. Not only will you be practicing dentistry, but you will also be the ceo, financial officer, the hr manager, etc of your "company".

And as far as working for someone else when you get out of dental school, that is just a personal choice. I for one hope that I have the confidence in myself after dental school to strike out on my own.



I just dont know if one year of clinicals and a 9 month residency will get you that confidence to practice out on your own.

I mean, who will set up the dental office and buy all the equipment, etc...

I guess there are companies that come in and upfit a dentist's office but I bet thats super expensive.
 
sokkerpunk said:
If you are looking at dentistry strictly because of income, you may want to re-evaluate your career choice. For one, don't look at what people report as salaries. For starters, a dentist in a private practice may pay himself a decent salary, say $80k, and then make up for it by paying himself in dividends. Obviously, the more one makes, the more one pays in taxes. So, many dentists may prefer paying themselves lower to avoid being taxed to death.

People seem to forget that a private practice is definitely a business. Not only will you be practicing dentistry, but you will also be the ceo, financial officer, the hr manager, etc of your "company".

And as far as working for someone else when you get out of dental school, that is just a personal choice. I for one hope that I have the confidence in myself after dental school to strike out on my own.



no way man, I love dentistry. The money is not my motivator.

But I have to say that if I thought I would just make 50k I WOULD change my mind. So maybe I just contradicted myself.

Its like this, I really would enjoy teaching, but no way am I going to do it for $30,000.

I also like eating, vacationing, having spending money. Get my drift?
 
DDS2BE said:
Oh boy, this topic is an on-going disease on SDN.




WAS SDN CREATED FOR LEARNING PURPOSES?

If so I am just attempting to learn about my future career man.

Give me a break.
 
ItsGavinC said:
That depends on how much the office can pay you based on their past income, patient base, need for help, overhead, and how much additional revenue you can generate.

$70k is certainly a possibility, and $120k is also a possibility. An established dentist in the dental forum said new graduates shouldn't ask for less than $120 when they go out, and that he believes new grads are worth $140k from a production standpoint.

MANY will earn a % of generated fees, and often lab fees will be deducted out of that. Others will earn a % of collected fees (production and collection are two different ballgames for many practices).



GAVIN GAVIN GAVIN<

I have seen your posts and thank you so much for the info.

THATS WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR. Thank you!

You an SDN asset !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 :thumbup: :D
 
By the way, I do like your user name! And, it is good to hear that you are not in it necessarily for the money. Same with me.

I totally catch your drift. I am in a similar boat. I am 34 yr old software developer looking to get into dental school, so I would definitely not take a chance on something like this if the opportunity to make a decent income was not there.

Just like everything else in the world, you cannot always believe what you see in print. Above all, I have never put any validity in average salaries, etc. My best bud made a career change to dentistry. He completed dental school 4 years ago and his private practice now generates over 1 million bucks/yr in a small Georgia town. He pays himself 90k and the rest in dividends. So, his salary his 90k but he brings home quite a bit more than that.

As far as setting up your practice, that is where a good business sense comes into play. To answer your question about who sets up the practice...you do! You are responsible for everything. That is one thing that has really drawn me to dentistry is the fact that I am responsible for every aspect of the practice. I believe that is where the lack of confidence or knowledge comes into play.

I do not even know you, but I can tell since you are researching this issue, you will be quite able to perform whatever you need to perform on patients to a high standard. So, yes, I think you would have the confidence to get out there and do it....but, as far as running a successful practice/business, I think that is where things get questionable.

Best of luck! By the way, what is your "story", i.e. your stats and where are you applying?
 
dental poopie said:
I thought we didnt get paid at all our 4th year?

Or do you mean doing a residency after the 4 years.....?

These are optional (well, in most states) post-graduate residencies for dentists going into general practice. Most people would not consider your 4th year in school a residency.
 
The field of dentistry is becoming even more popular. Do you think that because more dentists are coming out of college, the average salary will go down because of competition? Or is my logic out of whack.
 
Aero047 said:
The field of dentistry is becoming even more popular. Do you think that because more dentists are coming out of college, the average salary will go down because of competition? Or is my logic out of whack.

All that means is that getting into dentistry will be more competetive. They would have to open more dental schools and thereby make more dentists (a lot more) for the supply/demand factor to force the salaries down.
 
Aero047 said:
The field of dentistry is becoming even more popular. Do you think that because more dentists are coming out of college, the average salary will go down because of competition? Or is my logic out of whack.

The number of spaces is limited, so although more people want to get into dentistry, the total number of graduating dentists will remain about the same, regardless of number of applicants.

In about 10-15 years, the demand for dentists will increase, most likely leading to an increase in average salary, depending on government involvement.

All in all, I would say that dentistry is a great field to get into these days.
 
What do you guys see the future of specialization and general dentistry?
Which one is going to be more popular and more profitable?
 
crazy_sherm said:
Anyone know if AEGD residencies are always paid less?

I *think* they typically get lower pay because they *usually* aren't associated with hospitals, and probably don't qualify for GME (graduate medical education) funding.

GPR pay should follow the traditional PGY pay scale for whatever hospital you are associated with.
 
Aero047 said:
The field of dentistry is becoming even more popular. Do you think that because more dentists are coming out of college, the average salary will go down because of competition? Or is my logic out of whack.

I'm afraid that your logic is out of whack. The problem is that the nation is already facing a dental shortage. In the next ten years, it is expected that two dentists will be retiring for every one that is graduating from dental school. More dentists are not coming out of dental school...that is the problem. About 4,000 graduate every year, this is limited by the capacity that dental schools have.

Dentistry is becoming more popular...but that means that more people are trying to get into dental school, not that dental schools are trying to produce an increased number of graduates.
 
Jaws said:
I'm afraid that your logic is out of whack. The problem is that the nation is already facing a dental shortage. In the next ten years, it is expected that two dentists will be retiring for every one that is graduating from dental school. More dentists are not coming out of dental school...that is the problem. About 4,000 graduate every year, this is limited by the capacity that dental schools have.

Dentistry is becoming more popular...but that means that more people are trying to get into dental school, not that dental schools are trying to produce an increased number of graduates.




I agree with the fish.
 
I had asked my uncle about this before, an established dentist. He said he started making 80,000 right out of dental school and expected to make that. If you think about it, you're going to school 4 more years, so there is no way in hell you'll make 50 G's...thats a ridiculously low number.
 
dexadental said:
I had asked my uncle about this before, an established dentist. He said he started making 80,000 right out of dental school and expected to make that. If you think about it, you're going to school 4 more years, so there is no way in hell you'll make 50 G's...thats a ridiculously low number.





Thats what I had expected but hell the more dentists I ask the more i get the 50-70k #.

Thats a fact. I can read all the surveys in the world and all the salary crap out there but I am asking actual dentists and I admit it scares me.

Its a given how much $$$ in loans I will have. The reward is not a given. Thats a real bummer!

Agree?
 
when people talk about paying themselves say 90,000 and taking the rest in dividends, what exactly does that mean??what are dividends? thanks, and excuse my lack of business knowledge.
 
highfly413 said:
when people talk about paying themselves say 90,000 and taking the rest in dividends, what exactly does that mean??what are dividends? thanks, and excuse my lack of business knowledge.



they are basically referring to the fact that they have a corporation.


Dividends are 'retained earnings' at the end of the year that need to be distributed to the shareholders or owners of the company.

Basically, its taxed at a flat rate.

I was curious to read that as I thought most dental offices were LLCs or S-corporations and not straight C-corporations which can pay out dividends.

I think that poster was confused or not being truthful.

Sorry, but it makes me question his validity greatly.
 
dental poopie said:
they are basically referring to the fact that they have a corporation.


Dividends are 'retained earnings' at the end of the year that need to be distributed to the shareholders or owners of the company.

Basically, its taxed at a flat rate.

I was curious to read that as I thought most dental offices were LLCs or S-corporations and not straight C-corporations which can pay out dividends.

I think that poster was confused or not being truthful.

Sorry, but it makes me question his validity greatly.





I just read up on it on the net.


You cant avoid paying out thousands of payroll tax dollars by taking a small salary throughout the year and then taking huge amounts of dividends at the end of the year in a C-corporation, thats illegal and the IRS can reclassify those dividends as earnings and make you pay back thousands of dollars in payroll taxes.

So it looks like that poster lied or was extremely confused.

I see that alot on SDN where people make posts that are clearly not valid.

its a shame.
 
dental poopie said:
Thats what I had expected but hell the more dentists I ask the more i get the 50-70k #.

Thats a fact. I can read all the surveys in the world and all the salary crap out there but I am asking actual dentists and I admit it scares me.

I haven't spoken to any actual dentists who've said anything lower than 85k for their first year out. Most have said 100+.
 
dental poopie said:
GAVIN GAVIN GAVIN<

I have seen your posts and thank you so much for the info.

THATS WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR. Thank you!

You an SDN asset !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 :thumbup: :D


Welcome back Vertical bite
 
to whoever said we will be paying our debts back for 20 years... you are nuts. i'm not alone and i will graduate with about $65,000-$70,000 in debt. assuming i live a minimal lifestyle, i will be debt free by 30.
 
Hey poop. Thanks a lot for sending me a private message and saying that you are a CPA that has made a ton of money by selling their company and then calling me a lier or rather a confused liar.

What I posted was a response to a question you had. I simply responded in good faith with an example of how it is possible to make more money that is simply in a salary. Maybe my friend is doing something illegal. Geez, I dont know nor care. But, my example was simply that....AN EXAMPLE! Besides, I had no idea that 90k could be considered a "small salary". I find it ironic how you are/were a CPA but had to look up something related to taxes on the net. Talk about questioning validity!

To the poster asking about the dividends and such, I apologize if I caused you any confusion at all. To poopie, I apologize for answering your question on the board as well as responding to your private messages. I can honestly say after working in technology and posting messages on various web boards for over a decade, this is the first time I have been called a liar on one.

Best of luck to you poopie in your endeavors! Don't ever forget that everyone asking questions on this board may one day wind up being colleagues. That being said, I hold myself to the highest ethical standard and would never post a lie nor try to misdirect someone.

Besides, from what you told me about all the money you made over the sale of your private company, you really dont need to be worried about money after all do you?

Finally, I sincerely apologize to SDN and anyone confused by my post.

Cheers and good luck to all!
 
airvent said:
Welcome back Vertical bite

:laugh: You think so? after reading that last post I think you're probably right! New to sdn, obnoxious name, kiss up to Gavin... it all adds up!
 
organichemistry said:
to whoever said we will be paying our debts back for 20 years... you are nuts. i'm not alone and i will graduate with about $65,000-$70,000 in debt. assuming i live a minimal lifestyle, i will be debt free by 30.

You would be better off if you lock your loans in to a low interest rate and extend the repayment to 20 or 30 years. After all the value of $ should go up thus decreasing your relative debt and you could probably make more investing your $ in something that pays a few % points above the your loan interest rate.

Secondly, as a new graduate you will most likely be paid based on production (amount billed) or collections (amount collected). I know of two recent graduates. One is practicing in a larger city as an associate. He is paid off of production and averages 40k in production a month. I do not know his exact cut but he said he made 200K last year so that would be about 40%. The other recent graduate I know is in business with his Dad. His first month out (after a GPR) he produced 37K. His overhead is 50% so he took home about 18K. If he continues to average 37K in production he is looking at 222k for the year. His Dad has his overhead down to 40% because as he says his Dad is a "cheap a$$."

In the office where I work they post production numbers daily. As of March 29th one dentist has produced about 135k (in 3 months) and the other whos practice is much slower has produced about 100K (in 3 months). Neither dentist pushes procedures. They are very conservative and do only what is needed. So figure they take home 50% that would be 270K for the busy guy and 200K for the slow one. These dentists only work M-Th (4 days) 8hr days.

In addition, I have seen endo production numbers. At one office I know the associates collect about 36% of what they produce and the owners (must buy in) take home 42%. The production print out I saw had the top producer bringing in 100K for the month (42K take home b/c he is an owner) and the guy right ot of school produced 56K for the month (20K take home). Thus in that office the endodontists make anywhere from 240K to 500K a year.
 
This thread has gone really weird!
 
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