What is a "good" amount of debt for Dental school

[dentist2263]

Hi everyone, I was wondering what you would consider to to be a reasonable amount of debt to take on for dental school. Obviously, borrowing nothing would be best. But for those of us not receiving any financial support through family or a scholarship, at what amount would you say the debt load is no longer worth it? I ask because I received an offer from my state school, however it looks like it will still be at least 300k at the end of it, and that's if I live frugally. I appreciate any input.

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[Bigjt1420]

I’m going to be at $250K in debt, not including interest. That was the upper limit for me. But everyone is different

 

[deleted903013]

My limit was around 250k post interest. 200-250k has been a common limit i've seen from dentists on here and on dental town. No matter what decision you make, understand the financial implications because if you go over 300k in debt you're more likely to need to rely on government programs like IBR or PAYE.

 

[LaughingGas]

300 k is not bad considering a lot of public schools are reaching 400k now.

 

[Carmencitas]

Is ~340k pre interest doable if one lives extremely modestly during and after school (roommates, using old car, etc?)

Also does anyone have any tips to reduce COL and overall expenses so we don’t have to take out as many loans?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Is ~340k pre interest doable if one lives extremely modestly during and after school (roommates, using old car, etc?)

Also does anyone have any tips to reduce COL and overall expenses so we don’t have to take out as many loans?

Commute to school. Work a job. Start a business. Apply for scholarships. Say "no" to social events that cost money. Live frugally.

 

[ESPN907]

The rule of thumb for student loan debt is no more than what you expect your starting salary to be after graduation...good luck!

 

[PerioDont]

The rule of thumb for student loan debt is no more than what you expect your starting salary to be after graduation...good luck!

this eliminates at least 75% of d schools...most first year dentists make between 120-150k.

 

[deleted903013]

The rule of thumb for student loan debt is no more than what you expect your starting salary to be after graduation...good luck!

I would say a better rule is no more than 2x your expected salary. That way, you likely won't have to rely on government loan programs.

 

[TanMan]

Isn't the answer obvious? As little as possible, as long as you are not sacrificing future income.

 

[dentist2263]

I would say a better rule is no more than 2x your expected salary. That way, you likely won't have to rely on government loan programs.

So would you say 300k is a reasonably okay amount to take out in loans, pre-interest? Unfortunately this is the cheapest option available to me. I'm just worried about drowning in debt after graduation. I also feel like it would be hard to make 150k right out of school, but I might be able to work my way up to that eventually.

 

[PerioDont]

So would you say 300k is a reasonably okay amount to take out in loans, pre-interest? Unfortunately this is the cheapest option available to me. I'm just worried about drowning in debt after graduation. I also feel like it would be hard to make 150k right out of school, but I might be able to work my way up to that eventually.

What is your alternative? do you have a 'backup' career? can you apply for military/NHSC/or any other scholarship? otherwise just take the cheapest option at 300k.

additionally, it is not at all difficult to do 150k your first year out if you are willing to move where you are needed. add in working nights/weekends and you can do 200k your first year out in a rural are imo.

 

[deleted903013]

So would you say 300k is a reasonably okay amount to take out in loans, pre-interest? Unfortunately this is the cheapest option available to me. I'm just worried about drowning in debt after graduation. I also feel like it would be hard to make 150k right out of school, but I might be able to work my way up to that eventually.

Remember, 300k pre interest will be significantly higher once you add in interest and tuition hikes. Here are a couple of articles from white coat investor that talk about reasonable debt to income ratios. If you do go, try to learn as much as you can about practice ownership because that seems to be the best way to have a high income. Best of luck to you with your decision.

Debt Dilemmas for Dental Specialists | White Coat Investor

Dental specialists are often worse off than medical specialists due to higher debt & tuition-requiring residencies. One big financial mistake can sink them.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

Dave Ramsey Medical School Debt to Salary Ratio | White Coat Investor

Here's how to determine the maximum amount of student loan debt that your future earnings can support AND what to do if you already have too much.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

 

[0Mik3cho]

Isn't the answer obvious? As little as possible, as long as you are not sacrificing future income.

Are there any an examples of choosing a cheaper school that would also mean sacrificing future income?

 

[dreammare]

Graduated dental school just now with $455k debt. But I have a strong finance background and I anticipate that I can pay it all off within 3 years if I choose to.

Suggestion: get well-versed in business so you don't have to worry

 

[LFA20]

IMO debt to income ratio should be less than 2. AKA don't go to dental school if you don't have any financial help/scholarhips

 

[PerioDont]

Graduated dental school just now with $455k debt. But I have a strong finance background and I anticipate that I can pay it all off within 3 years if I choose to.

Suggestion: get well-versed in business so you don't have to worry

Curious what’s your plan for theoretically paying it off in 3 years?

 

[8_man]

Are there any an examples of choosing a cheaper school that would also mean sacrificing future income?

In clinical practice, not really. But if you're planning to work as an academic, then pedigree may help.

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

In clinical practice, not really. But if you're planning to work as an academic, then pedigree may help.

I feel like this terribly risky advice on the academic part. Why assume >150K MORE debt for the chance to have a job making LESS money than private practice? The majority of the preclinical profs at my school went to my school.

 

[8_man]

I feel like this terribly risky advice on the academic part. Why assume >150K MORE debt for the chance to have a job making LESS money than private practice? The majority of the preclinical profs at my school went to my school.

I was referring more towards research positions at a university, but you are correct that pay as a clinical instructor is abysmally low compared to what you can make in private practice. In any case I was just entertaining @0Mik3cho's question, it is not meant to be serious advice lol.

For anyone interested on this topic:

Dental school faculty vs private practice compensation disparity

Being on a dental school faculty is something I would really like to do, but word is the disparity in salary is huge. They say the average amount that a new dentist makes ends up being between $120k and $150k, with those who pursue a full time faculty position starting at possibly as low as...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[dreammare]

Curious what’s your plan for theoretically paying it off in 3 years?

I invested my student loan into the stock market and continue to do so. My after tax profit will exceed $455k in about 2 years, with 3 years on the upper end. Additionally, I’m also starting a hedge fund alongside practicing general dentistry and plan to partner up with a fellow dentist in my hedge fund to open up dental offices. Needless to say that my cash flow will be significant

 

[ESPN907]

I invested my student loan into the stock market and continue to do so. My after tax profit will exceed $455k in about 2 years, with 3 years on the upper end. Additionally, I’m also starting a hedge fund alongside practicing general dentistry and plan to partner up with a fellow dentist in my hedge fund to open up dental offices. Needless to say that my cash flow will be significant

What did you use to pay tuition?

 

[dreammare]

What did you use to pay tuition?

When you receive student loan, the school and the tuition takes their cut. Any excess is given to you, which is what I invest with

 

[ESPN907]

When you receive student loan, the school and the tuition takes their cut. Any excess is given to you, which is what I invest with

So you’re saying the $200k-ish that was disbursed over the last 4 years has already returned enough that you expect over $450k after tax profit in the next 2-3 years? That’s a damn good ROI…can you manage my portfolio?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

I invested my student loan into the stock market and continue to do so. My after tax profit will exceed $455k in about 2 years, with 3 years on the upper end. Additionally, I’m also starting a hedge fund alongside practicing general dentistry and plan to partner up with a fellow dentist in my hedge fund to open up dental offices. Needless to say that my cash flow will be significant

People do not try to emulate this. This is how people end up broke. You may have gotten lucky. Everyone wins in a bull market. Just wait for a bear and there will be blood in the streets. Keep up these habits and you'll be declaring bankruptcy. Sounds like pure stupidity to me.

 

[dreammare]

So you’re saying the $200k-ish that was disbursed over the last 4 years has already returned enough that you expect over $450k after tax profit in the next 2-3 years? That’s a damn good ROI…can you manage my portfolio?

Well, I am setting up and managing a hedge fund with my business partner (in addition on being a general dentist). All clients undergo an interview, however. If you're serious about this, you may message me.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Well, I am setting up and managing a hedge fund with my business partner (in addition on being a general dentist). All clients undergo an interview, however. If you're serious about this, you may message me.

Bernie Madoff version 2.0

Big Hoss

 

[PerioDont]

Bernie Madoff version 2.0

Big Hoss

Bernie Madoff, DDS

unless he turns into the next Michael Burry

 

[2thPirate🦷]

So you’re saying the $200k-ish that was disbursed over the last 4 years has already returned enough that you expect over $450k after tax profit in the next 2-3 years? That’s a damn good ROI…can you manage my portfolio?

Just put all of your loans into AMC and Doge before December and you’ll be fine 🤙🏼
Source: Father Musk

 

[Ivy.ch]

I invested my student loan into the stock market and continue to do so. My after tax profit will exceed $455k in about 2 years, with 3 years on the upper end. Additionally, I’m also starting a hedge fund alongside practicing general dentistry and plan to partner up with a fellow dentist in my hedge fund to open up dental offices. Needless to say that my cash flow will be significant

Same, except I used roulette instead of stocks.


(obviously that was sarcasm. I am not a financial advisor, but dear lord, to all the students, do not use loaned money to invest in markets.)

 

[babagandu2424]

Same, except I used roulette instead of stocks.


(obviously that was sarcasm. I am not a financial advisor, but dear lord, to all the students, do not use loaned money to invest in markets.)

Don’t agree with this at all. Everyone semi-successful that you’ve heard about in the investing/HF world has operated with leverage. If you’re smart enough to get into dental school, or any healthcare professional program for that matter, you’re smart enough to learn the fundamentals of investing and building high conviction thesis’ on companies/sectors, etc. With this said, do I recommend most healthcare kids do this? Absolutley not because they’re ignorant and will likely lose in the process. But this bull run we’ve been in has been absurd and a lot of people made a lot of money.

I’m one of those kids that took ~100k from my LOC at a 3% interest rate and dumped into some high conviction trades. I’ll graduate with no loans, but I understand I’m in the minority. Minority not because I’m some smart investing guru, but because I look to expand my business interests and don’t stuff all my eggs in one basket like every other med/dent/pharm student who is stuck in their little healthcare bubble.

Makes me laugh at how ignorant healthcare students can be just because they got into dental school for example (my entire school is a textbook example). Then they go on to talk about how much money they’ll make; your ROI with your degree is comical in the grand scheme of things… oh wait but you’re a doctor and deserve more right?!

Also, I promise I’m not bitter. I try to help my fellow doctoral candidate friends all the damn time but they don’t listen