What is cranial and why do people hate it?

[dbeast]

Just curious...

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[cliffhuxtableDO]

you must be hella bored tonight. trollin' up a storm, son.

 

[Torr]

Don't discourage him. This one may be my favorite!

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

Don't discourage him. This one may be my favorite!

so you're a med student now, torr?

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Cranial is something I laaaave and hope to specialize in it. Gonna open up a clinic that is pure cranial.

 

[Torr]

so you're a med student now, torr?

MS-0 Cliff. 2015er. Changing my status helped it sink in a bit.

Anyways....back to dbeasts question! Who hates cranial? I think it's awesome!

Just misunderstood.

 

[dbeast]

Damn... Unsuccessful troll!

I actually am curious what cranial is, I've heard several DO students make fun of it. OMM does make sense to me but this "cranial" subject is supposedly pretty far out there.

 

[LifeTake2]

Cranial is a subset of OMM that aims to cure problems by applying pressure to the skull.

Many, even those supportive of OMM think it is too far 'out there's.

 

[theone1979]

I think one of the biggest problems people have with it is that it's based on an extremely questionable premise.

Cranial OMM claims to restore function through the minor manipulation of the small bones of the skull....the problem with that is that it has been well established that long before adulthood, the bones of the skull fuse together.

So...how exactly are we supposed to make adjustments to individual bones when for all intents and purposes, these bones have fused together to form a single structure?

Now I am not completely closed to the idea. I honestly don't know enough about it yet- I am just stating a rather large problem that cranial has to get around if it wishes to be considered legitimate (or even possible) by the mainstream.

Does anyone know how supporters of cranial side-step this rather large problem (other than the common answer of, "we know it works and that's enough")?

 

[willen101383]

I think one of the biggest problems people have with it is that it's based on an extremely questionable premise.

Cranial OMM claims to restore function through the minor manipulation of the small bones of the skull....the problem with that is that it has been well established that long before adulthood, the bones of the skull fuse together.

So...how exactly are we supposed to make adjustments to individual bones when for all intents and purposes, these bones have fused together to form a single structure?

Now I am not completely closed to the idea. I honestly don't know enough about it yet- I am just stating a rather large problem that cranial has to get around if it wishes to be considered legitimate (or even possible) by the mainstream.


By making up a bunch of BS and trying to make it sound all scientific so that you wont even question them. Few med students actually question any of the OMM stuff to the administration/professors out of fear of being kicked out or having our grades reduced.

Does anyone know how supporters of cranial side-step this rather large problem (other than the common answer of, "we know it works and that's enough")?

By making up a bunch of BS and trying to make it sound all scientific so that you wont even question them. Few med students actually question any of the OMM stuff to the administration/professors out of fear of being kicked out or having our grades reduced.

 

[Torr]

Aw. I was kinda hoping this would be a fun thread.

 

[TheSeanieB]

Is there anywhere that I can read about cranial online or see a video on it? Even looking up osteopathy on wikipedia, there was only info about OMM and no mention of cranial.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

Damn... Unsuccessful troll!

I actually am curious what cranial is, I've heard several DO students make fun of it. OMM does make sense to me but this "cranial" subject is supposedly pretty far out there.

It is...with the caveat that it is useful in some pediatric cases before aforementioned bones are fused.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Honestly, I think most of us will never use it, so we probably don't even need to know what it is.

 

[cliquesh]

The politically correct term is Osteopathy In The Cranial Field. Anyone can do cranial; only DOs can do OCF.

 

[DocEspana]

Honestly, I think most of us will never use it, so we probably don't even need to know what it is.

On the other hand, some people, such as Mortal Kombatant Sub-Zero take their practice of Osteopathic Cranial Manipulation to extremes.

p.s. IDK if i ever appreciated that the spine ends in a little sacrum before.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

On the other hand, some people, such as Mortal Kombatant Sub-Zero take their practice of Osteopathic Cranial Manipulation to extremes.

p.s. IDK if i ever appreciated that the spine ends in a little sacrum before.

That's just extreme chiropracting.

 

[Special Delivery]

problem with that is that it has been well established that long before adulthood, the bones of the skull fuse together.

So...how exactly are we supposed to make adjustments to individual bones when for all intents and purposes, these bones have fused together to form a single structure?

It was well established that the world was flat once, too

There have been studies done using modern imaging equipment that show that the diameter of a person's skull fluxuates (albeit nominally). So no, I don't think you can arbitrarily say that the bones of the skull are fused. If you require the studies I'm referring to I'll PM it to you.

Whether or not there's any benefit to that kind of manipulation... I don't know. I assume most students don't like it because it's difficult at best to sense the rhythm when touching the patient's skull.

 

[Torr]

I actually said "get over here!" outloud once when I was removing a spinal cord from a cadaver in class .

Only one kid laughed.

 

[DocEspana]

It was well established that the world was flat once, too

There have been studies done using modern imaging equipment that show that the diameter of a person's skull fluxuates (albeit nominally). So no, I don't think you can arbitrarily say that the bones of the skull are fused. If you require the studies I'm referring to I'll PM it to you.

Whether or not there's any benefit to that kind of manipulation... I don't know. I assume most students don't like it because it's difficult at best to sense the rhythm when touching the patient's skull.

.08mm.

If you can cause a significant and permanent change to anything that has macrostructure by moving it .08 mm, I will be impressed. I believe that is less than the width of this period. Well I am not a doubter, I am a skeptic as the changes supposed by the practitioners seems hard to believe when the most substantial change they have ever been able to show is .08mm. You do need to push tension onto things or relieve tension on things by this theory. I dont see that little of a change being enough.

 

[jphwki82]

http://www.craniosacraltherapy.org/Whatis.htm

This site will explain what craniosacral therapy is about.

 

[Colbare]

http://www.craniosacraltherapy.org/Whatis.htm

This site will explain what craniosacral therapy is about.

Sounds like magic

 

[DocEspana]

Sounds like magic

 

[absolutdokta]

I actually said "get over here!" outloud once when I was removing a spinal cord from a cadaver in class .

Only one kid laughed.

yeah, most people dont pick up on the mortal combat lines anymore. I'm only a few years older than most in my class, what gives...

 

[MRSAful Fate]

MS-0 Cliff. 2015er. Changing my status helped it sink in a bit.

Anyways....back to dbeasts question! Who hates cranial? I think it's awesome!

Just misunderstood.

If Chucky is the instructor then I'm a believer!

 

[MRSAful Fate]

.08mm.

If you can cause a significant and permanent change to anything that has macrostructure by moving it .08 mm, I will be impressed. I believe that is less than the width of this period. Well I am not a doubter, I am a skeptic as the changes supposed by the practitioners seems hard to believe when the most substantial change they have ever been able to show is .08mm. You do need to push tension onto things or relieve tension on things by this theory. I dont see that little of a change being enough.

I imagine the pressure change experienced by taking the elevator to the top of a building could do 0.08mm. So if one were to do cranial on the 12th floor maybe medicare would pay out twice??!?

 

[DocEspana]

I imagine the pressure change experienced by taking the elevator to the top of a building could do 0.08mm. So if one were to do cranial on the 12th floor maybe medicare would pay out twice??!?

I'd bill for it.

For all that I am skeptical of cranial, I do like OMM. Especially the part where its very easy to bill for. Twice in this case.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

As much hogwash as I've heard cranial is I'll still be going into it with an open mind. Whether my mind closes to it depends on if what I'm taught contradicts evidence based science without anything scholarly to back it up.

 

[DuxburyPembroke]

I think the reason people hate it is because it's the last straw of disillusionment. You start OMM like, "cool! learning extra stuff! feels good! etc." Then they go beyond what works and start describing questionable mechanisms, and you start thingking, "Uh... haha really? Maybe not, but, if it works, let them think what they want about why it works! A somewhat inaccurate metaphor can still be effective." And then they test you on the questionable mechanisms! You go to your OMM teacher, and say, "Why are you testing me on this?" And the answer is that there were giants in the earth in those days, that the truth of mechanism was revealed to the prophets along with the techniques. You think of yourself as a scientist, so you are offended, and a little mad at them for making your medical education seem less legitimate than you would like. This is the edge of disillusionment. Then comes cranial, and anger! "What?! This is total bull****! You tricked me into taking this whole thing seriously and now %&&*%&#!" So you discard all of OMM, and you hate cranial for being the last straw. Maybe later there can be bargaining and acceptance, or you see on rotations that maybe some technique really works, or you remember that one maneuver from first semester that really did relieve your back pain, etc. But the hatred for the innocence-despoiling cranial never really goes away...

 

[cliquesh]

I think the reason people hate it is because it's the last straw of disillusionment. You start OMM like, "cool! learning extra stuff! feels good! etc." Then they go beyond what works and start describing questionable mechanisms, and you start thingking, "Uh... haha really? Maybe not, but, if it works, let them think what they want about why it works! A somewhat inaccurate metaphor can still be effective." And then they test you on the questionable mechanisms! You go to your OMM teacher, and say, "Why are you testing me on this?" And the answer is that there were giants in the earth in those days, that the truth of mechanism was revealed to the prophets along with the techniques. You think of yourself as a scientist, so you are offended, and a little mad at them for making your medical education seem less legitimate than you would like. This is the edge of disillusionment. Then comes cranial, and anger! "What?! This is total bull****! You tricked me into taking this whole thing seriously and now %&&*%&#!" So you discard all of OMM, and you hate cranial for being the last straw. Maybe later there can be bargaining and acceptance, or you see on rotations that maybe some technique really works, or you remember that one maneuver from first semester that really did relieve your back pain, etc. But the hatred for the innocence-despoiling cranial never really goes away...

lol. This is so true.

 

[NurWollen]

I think the reason people hate it is because it's the last straw of disillusionment. You start OMM like, "cool! learning extra stuff! feels good! etc." Then they go beyond what works and start describing questionable mechanisms, and you start thingking, "Uh... haha really? Maybe not, but, if it works, let them think what they want about why it works! A somewhat inaccurate metaphor can still be effective." And then they test you on the questionable mechanisms! You go to your OMM teacher, and say, "Why are you testing me on this?" And the answer is that there were giants in the earth in those days, that the truth of mechanism was revealed to the prophets along with the techniques. You think of yourself as a scientist, so you are offended, and a little mad at them for making your medical education seem less legitimate than you would like. This is the edge of disillusionment. Then comes cranial, and anger! "What?! This is total bull****! You tricked me into taking this whole thing seriously and now %&&*%&#!" So you discard all of OMM, and you hate cranial for being the last straw. Maybe later there can be bargaining and acceptance, or you see on rotations that maybe some technique really works, or you remember that one maneuver from first semester that really did relieve your back pain, etc. But the hatred for the innocence-despoiling cranial never really goes away...

Well of course it doesn't work for you... you have to have faith!