What is more important?

[croco]

Hey, what do you guys think is more important, a solid GPA, or a solid DAT score?

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[Bickle]

I'd say a solid GPA is more important. But it depends what you mean by the term "solid". Some people may think a solid DAT is around 17s and others around 20s.

It also depends on which school is your 1st choice. Some schools stress GPA over the DAT and vice versa.

 

[critterbug]

I honestly think they are equally important.

However, I know that most will say that the DAT is more important becasue it puts everyone on equal playing field. But it is hard for me to believe that one test is more important than 4 or more years of rigorous academic work.

I think both are part of the decision, but one is not more important than the other.

Just my opinion though

 

[hopefulgirl]

I agree, both are very important!! If you have a high GPA and a so-so DAT, don't be surprised if you don't get in. By that I mean you have to have at least 18s and 19s....

 

[critterbug]

OK, did some searching and found these stats. As you can see, there are some who have high GPA's AND DAT's. Some who have High GPA's and Avg DATs. And then a few who have low GPA's and low DAT's

Hey larryt, didn't you go to A&M?

http://opsa.tamu.edu/pdf_files/dentchart02.pdf

 

[ecdoesit]

It is strange to have really high GPA like a 3.8 and a low DAT score below 10. If you get something like this, you should re-take the test.

I think if you get good/solid on GPA or DAT, the schools weights less on the other section. It is always good to show both obviously.

 

[critterbug]

Yes, that would be a huge red flag.

However, I think it is not uncommon for dental students to have a high undergrad GPA with just average DAT scores like 17-19. There could be many variables such as nerves, time constraints, etc.

But you are right, a 10 just sounds fishy if one's GPA is that high. Something drastically went wrong.

 

[ecdoesit]

Well, I put 10 since I dont want to offend anyone.
17-19 is a decent score.
I believe your GPA is a lot more important since it is at least 2-3 yrs of your life compare with a single day.

What i want to say is that everything balances out. No single stats is more important than the others.
If you get good stats and be a jerk in the interview or didnt have enough experience to give u a clue about dentistry, then chance to get in is a lot lower.

 

[croco]

There are many people in various schools that I have visited who had very little experience in dentistry that got in. Can someone explain this?

 

[larryt]

Originally posted by critterbug
OK, did some searching and found these stats. As you can see, there are some who have high GPA's AND DAT's. Some who have High GPA's and Avg DATs. And then a few who have low GPA's and low DAT's

Hey larryt, didn't you go to A&M?

http://opsa.tamu.edu/pdf_files/dentchart02.pdf

yup... class of '96

darn... Ut-houston 28 aggies out of 65. Hope I will have chance there.....

 

[critterbug]

Originally posted by ecdoesit
Well, I put 10 since I dont want to offend anyone.
17-19 is a decent score.
I believe your GPA is a lot more important since it is at least 2-3 yrs of your life compare with a single day.

What i want to say is that everything balances out. No single stats is more important than the others.
If you get good stats and be a jerk in the interview or didnt have enough experience to give u a clue about dentistry, then chance to get in is a lot lower.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that GPA is the most important objective part of your application (considering a rigorous program and major) However, DAT scores are a close, close second.

Originally posted by croco
There are many people in various schools that I have visited who had very little experience in dentistry that got in. Can someone explain this?

croco,

Thats a shocker. It really is. I thought dental experience, whether it be shadowing , assisting, family in dentistry, etc, would be a requirement for getting accepted to dental school.

Originally posted by larryt
yup... class of '96

darn... Ut-houston 28 aggies out of 65. Hope I will have chance there.....

Hey larry,

A&M is a great school, especially for a science major. And those stats show that you don't have to have a 4.0-20/20 to get into Texas schools.

 

[larryt]

Originally posted by critterbug

A&M is a great school, especially for a science major. And those stats show that you don't have to have a 4.0-20/20 to get into Texas schools.

How about 3.0 gpa and 20/19 ?

 

[critterbug]

Solid stats my man. Your DAT is good and you went to a great university. Your future looks bright.

 

[boyan]

I think that GPA is the more important criteria especially if you have taken ?hard classes? and have kept it high through out the years. I think that you cant compare a student that has 3.8 GPA and has taken classes like sociology, psychology, ceramics with total of 90 credit hours with a person that has the same amount of credits but with classes mostly like advanced anatomy, advanced physiology, microbiology, advanced biochem and has a GPA 3.5. Someone will argue that this is the reason why they have Science GPA scale but still some people take only the minimum required classes for acceptance and get a nice looking 3.4 on their Science GPA.

Also the DAT represents one day of your life. If you have done good it might be just a chance or if you have done average it could be because you had a ?bad day? or you got tested on something that you were not prepared for. Remember that we all get different tests so there is no standard scale like on the MCAT.

Anyway, both DAT and GPA are important but if I were an admissions officer I would probably give preference to a person with higher GPA than DAT (if they have close stats)

 

[croco]

I was on the phone with the 3 tx schools of dentistry, and they told me hands down, that your DAT score was more important!

I am shocked!!

 

[savvysearch]

Originally posted by croco
I was on the phone with the 3 tx schools of dentistry, and they told me hands down, that your DAT score was more important!

I am shocked!!

If they said that, then that is shocking. It's good for me because my DAT is better than my GPA. But Im sure that there is a proportionality constant that describes what dat and gpa one should have.

What I want to know is what part of the DAT is most important: science scores, PAT, overall academic etc. For example, some schools pay no attention to PAT, while others (UOP) pay a lot. My AA is above average at 19, but my Science score is 20. Im just hoping that the schools Im applying to look more heavily upon the science score.

 

[DATGuru]

I have a friend who got in San Antonio with GPA ~ 2.7 with DAT 21
So it seems to level the field, schools use the DAT as the most ojbective indicator(it's not necessary true to me). I heard some like GPA inflation at some school.
To me, I would weight 50% each when considering who will get in.

 

[critterbug]

Yes, I agree, DAT scores will help those out who have low GPA's. No doubt about it. This has been proven time and time again. But let me pose this question/scenerio.

With all things being equal, which student do you think has a better chance of getting accepted:

Student A with a 3.7+ GPA with an 18/18 DAT

or

Student B with a 2.7 GPA with a 21/21 DAT

Just to make this interesting, lets assume both of these students went to the same undergraduate university and had the same major.

 

[boyan]

I will go with Student A

 

[Omahahahaha]

Student A has worked hard for 4 years to build his GPA and may have had a sub-par test day, while Student B was a slacker for 4 years, crammed for the DAT, and got a good score.

I choose Student A

 

[critterbug]

Slacker is such a strong word. There could have been external factors that contributed to the low GPA. IMHO, If one can explain these situations, they still have a chance, but are not nearly as competitive as someone who shows consistency. But, for the most part, these external factors might explain a few semesters, but an overall GPA and GPA trends show how you can overcome adversity and adapt. And it *might* be an indicator of your work ethic, but that is not always the case.

 

[savvysearch]

Student B seems to be more successful at taking tests. But Student A has no weaknesses. I'd say Student A has a better chance.

New hypothetical:

Student A versus:

Student C: 2.7 GPA DAT 24/21

 

[Mo007]

Student A... 3.7 GPA... Thats an "A" student

Student B.... 2.7 GPA... Thats a "C" student

DAT just shows if you can handle Dental School or not, but Academic records is always everything.

I would choose Student "A" if I was in the adcom - why?, because he/she worked harder over 4 years than B, and still did fairly good on the DAT. We are talking about 4 years here people against 1 day!.

If many of you suggested Student 'B' should get in, and assuming he had problems, do you really think the problems lasted all those 4 years?? - its like saying I had a BAD start, and a BAD finish! with that GPA - I still think the student has a chance, but not against Student 'A' in this case.

Personally, I think you will be taking chances if you select good test takers over hard workers and good grades achievers (which is what most schools should be looking for).

 

[Thaxil]

I disagree with a few people here. The DAT is not just a one-day phenomenon. If you pass all the pre reqs with C and B, it would surely be much harder for that person to achieve 20/20 then for an A student.
So, I support the B average student in part because I fit the superficial description. In addition, because that number represents 4 years and a lot of external factors can affect such numbers: Grade inflations, family problems, and a bad start or ?transition? I like to call it (such as in my case).
If someone takes the time to look at my transcripts, they would see that I am not slacker.

 

[critterbug]

Originally posted by savvysearch
Student B seems to be more successful at taking tests. But Student A has no weaknesses. I'd say Student A has a better chance.

New hypothetical:

Student A versus:

Student C: 2.7 GPA DAT 24/21

Wow, this is getting interesting. A 24 DAT is amazing and cannot be denied. I think someone with this DAT score WILL get in, no doubt. However, I think adcoms will test this individual though to see if he/she is truly dedicated to academics and to the profession of dentistry. If student C shows strong upward trends in grades the last two years of undergrad, the 2.7 will all be forgotten. If not, a post bac, masters, etc will be needed, but eventually student C will get in with those DAT scores, its just a matter of time and proving academic stability.

Again, just my humble opinion. This is fun

 

[critterbug]

Originally posted by Thaxil
I disagree with a few people here. The DAT is not just a one-day phenomenon. If you pass all the pre reqs with C and B, it would surely be much harder for that person to achieve 20/20 then for an A student.
So, I support the B average student in part because I fit the superficial description. In addition, because that number represents 4 years and a lot of external factors can affect such numbers: Grade inflations, family problems, and a bad start or ?transition? I like to call it (such as in my case).
If someone takes the time to look at my transcripts, they would see that I am not slacker.

Good point. Geez, an adcoms' job sure isn't easy, huh!?

 

[Bickle]

I guess the numerous different views about which is more important is reflected in the 50something dental schools out there. They each weigh the DAT and GPA differently.

 

[boyan]

Don?t forget that the DAT tests your broad knowledge in the subject and it doest go into the details. Also the material that you have to know is not that much ? look at the biology part: ONLY 16 chapters (~180 pages /Kaplan/). Well, if you have the time to study and focus only on this damn you must be stupid if you can?t learn the material in lets say 5 months. For 5 months a person with average capacities should be able to know every sentence of that book.

Now lets see how it is at school: I?ll use myself as an example: I started the fall semester on September 1st. I am taking Genetics (4 credits), advanced Biochemistry (4 credits), Immunology(4), statistics(3) and ceramics(3). I had my first tests in Genetics and Biochem last week and my Immunology test is coming up on Monday. My statistics test was 2 weeks ago. So in less than a month I should know close to 250 pages of material that I think is much harder than the material on the DAT. I have to get over 90% on every test in order to get an A. Than I?ll have another 9 (3 per subject, excluding statistics) exams + finals which will cover total of over 1000 pages of dense material. Don?t you think this is a little bit harder compared to 450 pages for 5 months? Don?t you think that a person with such a load of classes GPA of 3.6 and average DAT (18/18/18) would have an advantage over someone with GPA of 2.9 and DAT 20/19/18.

 

[le fort guy]

Hey larry,

A&M is a great school, especially for a science major. And those stats show that you don't have to have a 4.0-20/20 to get into Texas schools. [/B]

I think this statement to be true only if you are a Texas state resident.

 

[critterbug]

Originally posted by le fort guy
I think this statement to be true only if you are a Texas state resident.

Yes. I would assume so.

It is very hard for out-of-staters to get into Texas schools. Generally, to do so, one has to be an excellent applicant.

 

[treasure_island]

Originally posted by critterbug
OK, did some searching and found these stats. As you can see, there are some who have high GPA's AND DAT's. Some who have High GPA's and Avg DATs. And then a few who have low GPA's and low DAT's

Hey larryt, didn't you go to A&M?

http://opsa.tamu.edu/pdf_files/dentchart02.pdf

this site is great, do u know another site like this with other universitities?

 

[sxr71]

Originally posted by critterbug
OK, did some searching and found these stats. As you can see, there are some who have high GPA's AND DAT's. Some who have High GPA's and Avg DATs. And then a few who have low GPA's and low DAT's

Hey larryt, didn't you go to A&M?

http://opsa.tamu.edu/pdf_files/dentchart02.pdf

This is really good info. One thing though, was that I didn't really see a correlation when eyeballing the chart. I'll plotting it and look for a correlation, but somehow I doubt there is one. I saw quite a few people with low GPA and low DAT.


EDIT: I just did a graph in Excel:



Graph

 

[sxr71]

Originally posted by critterbug
Yes. I would assume so.

It is very hard for out-of-staters to get into Texas schools. Generally, to do so, one has to be an excellent applicant.

There are several people on these forums that have higher DATs than the highest DAT given in the data. I wonder if some us underestimated our chances at Texas schools.

 

[Woodsy]

this is the kinda **** I had been talking about in the past.

People runnin' their mouths and talking ****.

Look both are important. If it comes down to it, person with the higher GPA (over 3.6) will usually win out if that person's DAT is average (17-18's) than a person wtih a low GPA (under 3.0) over 20 not over 24 in each section. You should all realize by now that THERE IS NO MAGIC FORMULA!

Those with a high GPA, make sure you do well on the DAT but if you don't you still have a good chance. Those with a low GPA pray that you do well on the DAT so that at least one school would accept ya.

Don't think that the DAT can replace your grades. If that were the case, I'd devote three years to study the DAT and use minimal effort to ensure that I get above a 3.1. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

Nothing replaces getting good grades. Those who get good grades will not be punished for it.

Not to talk **** but it's just a FACT. In Canada, notably the University of Toronto, if you don't have at least a 3.4 GPA, the adcom would give a rat's ass if you get 30's across the board on your DAT, YOU WILL NOT GET IN!

Just be glad that dental schools in the USA are more forgiving. Try getting into med school.....

As for transitions, etc, I didn't do too well in my first year, but I killed the next two. It's how you recover and waht strategies you use to cope with your problem. Yes I am aware of those rare cases where there are HUGE problems, as one DCS mentioned, but honestly how often does that happen?

I've worked through my undergrad and i'm fine. So did many of my classmates, worked part time weekdays, worked full time weekends and still got into med school which is harder to get into dental school especially in Canada.

Have a kid to support? If you're married like in the late 20's-30's and just decided that dentistry is the profession for you that you can't do anything about, well that becomes an issue. And that is a legit reason for grades not reflecting one's ability.

BUT if you're one of those teenage parents, the truth is, you ****ed up already! Unless you were raped, you did it to yourself and it is your own damned fault. I ain't gonna take pity on ya. Call me mean or cruel but you should have thought about that when you decided to **** without a condom.

NOw if this is one of those threads started by some dude with a low GPA but did well on his DAT and is thinking at what his chances are in dental school and getting all these peopel support him to make him feel better, well you didn't get into dental school yet, I don't care how peachy you feel, so my best advice is this: APPLY AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. It all depends on the applicant. If the school likes ya, you're in. It's not always just about GPA and DAT alone. Those just improve your chances of getting in.


It is true that you don't have to have a high GPA to be a good dentist nor do you need high DATS, but I wouldn't want some ***** working on my teeth either. Dental school is still an academic institution and they want someone who would be able to hack the workload. If you are supporting a kid for instance, and can barely manage to get through undergrad, how do you expect to do well in dental school? You think that your problems will just magically disappear? That is something one just has to consider. I'm not saying it can't be done (many people in this forum have families and kids while in dental school and are doing great), just saying it is a point to consider and realize.


Those who think wow woodsy, you are really hostile and ignorant or whatever, or how did a ****er like you get into dental school. Well I call it like I see it. I am very blunt. I don't like games, I don't like bull****. I do what i have to do, say what i need to say within reason, especially on a public forum where I won't get in penalized for speaking my mind, I got good grades, good DATS because I worked my ass off and believe that dentistry is a profession that I would like to pursue for my life. It just makes me happy.

 

[Thaxil]

Just shut up. I do not know why some people that this forums so seriously. Woody, you did make some valid points minus the bad attitude. It is definitely hard to maintain high academic achievement for year in and out.

 

[Woodsy]

Originally posted by Thaxil
Just shut up. I do not know why some people that this forums so seriously. Woody, you did make some valid points minus the bad attitude. It is definitely hard to maintain high academic achievement for year in and out.

I guess it is because I am very passionate about my work and like to take it seriously. Bad attitude, no one's perfect. Ain't trying to be, just speaking my mind.

 

[marshall]

http://opsa.tamu.edu/pdf_files/dentchart03.pdf

those are updated stats for that school.