What is needed for a top general surgery residency?

[Jbgustavo]

Hi,
I'm looking to apply to a "top 5" surgery program. I have been preparing for applying to a different specialty, so I'm kinda out of the loop on the surgery game. Just how good of stats do people need to be competitive at some of the top programs? Hope this isn't too vague. Thanks

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[TraumaLlamaMD]

Top-percentile boards, outstanding LORs from leaders in the field, and a history of research and clinical work that shows a real commitment to the specialty - pretty consistent for top programs across all specialties, I think. Be prepared to explain the sudden change of heart, and apply broadly.

 

[Bonferroni Correction]

I'm a current MS3 interested in radiology, but I've been reading a ton on here and other forums about how grueling private practice can be due to the never ending que of studies and peer pressure to read x amount of studies.

The reasons that I hear people love radiology like each case being a puzzle really resonate with me so I don't see it being a problem, but I have also come to despise cranking through uworld questions one after another. I just think that if I had to do uworld as a job I would wish I went into surgery.

Anyway sorry that was so long, but I would appreciate any insight y'all have for me. I hope I'm just being overly cautious.

This "Top 5" business a week after abandoning radiology because of the degree to which you "despise" Uworld is somewhat concerning. I admire your confidence, but worry you are more concerned with title and prestige rather than pursuing a field that you are passionate about. You say you are out of the loop on the surgery game - there is no game. You are either interested in becoming a surgeon and accepting of the requisite sacrifices... or you are not. The more experience +/- research you get involved with, the better your application will be.

 

[Jbgustavo]

This "Top 5" business a week after abandoning radiology because of the degree to which you "despise" Uworld is somewhat concerning. I admire your confidence, but worry you are more concerned with title and prestige rather than pursuing a field that you are passionate about. You say you are out of the loop on the surgery game - there is no game. You are either interested in becoming a surgeon and accepting of the requisite sacrifices... or you are not. The more experience +/- research you get involved with, the better your application will be.

Yeah I know it's a quick change, and I shouldn't have said that I'm leaning toward surgery because I really have no idea what I want right now. I'm just trying to figure it out as quick as possible . Right now I'm on an away in a rural town, so I've had way too much time to look around on all the forums.

I have been thinking IR for the past few months, but one of the general surgeons at the hospital I've been working with had some good points as to why I should think about surgery instead. Since I hadn't thought about surgery in a while, I thought I would come here and read about different programs. I am not wanting to apply to a top program simply for the sake of being at a top program, rather, I have strong regional ties to one program in particular, but it is a really good program so I was just trying to see if there was any way I could be considered. I have pretty decent stats, but nothing to where I would consider myself a shoe in by any means.

I will obviously be shadowing and researching much more over the coming months to find out what I want to do, but I can't be the first 3rd year who has had second thoughts about their specialty in the spring. I don't think this should be a negative thing, I'm just trying to be as sure of my decision as I can realistically be. I wish I was one of those people who knew from first year what they wanted to do, but I wasn't that lucky. Just thought this was the best place to start exploring other options.

As for "despising" uworld. Yeah that was a strong word that I probably wrote after a long study session that had me frustrated with staring a computer all day. I'm sure you can understand why I'm having second thoughts about radiology now. I would rather think about all of this now rather than realize it after I'm already in residency.

 

[Hangry]

Yeah I know it's a quick change, and I shouldn't have said that I'm leaning toward surgery because I really have no idea what I want right now. I'm just trying to figure it out as quick as possible . Right now I'm on an away in a rural town, so I've had way too much time to look around on all the forums.

I have been thinking IR for the past few months, but one of the general surgeons at the hospital I've been working with had some good points as to why I should think about surgery instead. Since I hadn't thought about surgery in a while, I thought I would come here and read about different programs. I am not wanting to apply to a top program simply for the sake of being at a top program, rather, I have strong regional ties to one program in particular, but it is a really good program so I was just trying to see if there was any way I could be considered. I have pretty decent stats, but nothing to where I would consider myself a shoe in by any means.

I will obviously be shadowing and researching much more over the coming months to find out what I want to do, but I can't be the first 3rd year who has had second thoughts about their specialty in the spring. I don't think this should be a negative thing, I'm just trying to be as sure of my decision as I can realistically be. I wish I was one of those people who knew from first year what they wanted to do, but I wasn't that lucky. Just thought this was the best place to start exploring other options.

As for "despising" uworld. Yeah that was a strong word that I probably wrote after a long study session that had me frustrated with staring a computer all day. I'm sure you can understand why I'm having second thoughts about radiology now. I would rather think about all of this now rather than realize it after I'm already in residency.

No one is giving you a hard time for switching your mind at the end of third year. You are getting push back because you stated an interest in surgery (and top 5 surgery nonetheless) without listing one thing you like about the field or one reason to go into it.

Surgery has a relatively high attrition rate, primarily due to lifestyle, so you need to be sure you love the field for what it is before committing to it and becoming another statistic who switches fields. You even state in this post that you have no idea what you want to do, surgery is certainly not the field to go into if that is the case. Now if you want to talk about what parts of surgery you enjoy or what people on here like about the field to help you make your decision you might be able to get some useful data but right now your posts are just giant red flags.

 

[Jbgustavo]

No one is giving you a hard time for switching your mind at the end of third year. You are getting push back because you stated an interest in surgery (and top 5 surgery nonetheless) without listing one thing you like about the field or one reason to go into it.

Surgery has a relatively high attrition rate, primarily due to lifestyle, so you need to be sure you love the field for what it is before committing to it and becoming another statistic who switches fields. You even state in this post that you have no idea what you want to do, surgery is certainly not the field to go into if that is the case. Now if you want to talk about what parts of surgery you enjoy or what people on here like about the field to help you make your decision you might be able to get some useful data but right now your posts are just giant red flags.

So in order for anyone to answer a question I have about surgery I have to already know that I want to go into surgery?

I didn't list all of the reasons why I would want to go into surgery because I didn't want to list a wall of text and didn't think that I had to prove my interest before asking a question.

 

[Jbgustavo]

Top-percentile boards, outstanding LORs from leaders in the field, and a history of research and clinical work that shows a real commitment to the specialty - pretty consistent for top programs across all specialties, I think. Be prepared to explain the sudden change of heart, and apply broadly.

Thank you for your input. I appreciate the response.

As far as me specifically, I have a 252 step, I hope step 2 will be better. My clinicals are ok with mostly hp and one pass. haven't had surgery yet. One publication and another case report (not in surgery). If i do end up deciding to pursue surgery, I will obviously be trying to get a surgery related project at least actively going by application time. Pretty good ECs.

Assuming that I am able to explain why I was thinking radiology first, I get good letters in my sub is, and I get some more surgery related research, what do you think my chances would be? I am thinking that I would at least be able to match into a lower tier residency around me, which might be off base but that's why I am asking only about this one program in particular.

 

[SLUser11]

Thank you for your input. I appreciate the response.

As far as me specifically, I have a 252 step, I hope step 2 will be better. My clinicals are ok with mostly hp and one pass. haven't had surgery yet. One publication and another case report (not in surgery). If i do end up deciding to pursue surgery, I will obviously be trying to get a surgery related project at least actively going by application time. Pretty good ECs.

Assuming that I am able to explain why I was thinking radiology first, I get good letters in my sub is, and I get some more surgery related research, what do you think my chances would be? I am thinking that I would at least be able to match into a lower tier residency around me, which might be off base but that's why I am asking only about this one program in particular.

Are you are a 3rd year MS in a US allopathic program? The timeline seems a bit odd with away rotations preceding your surgery clerkship. Regardless, it's ok to be curious about multiple specialties, but I think some SDNers here think your need to "figure it out as quick as possible" is a bit rushed.

I suggest you do your surgical clerkship and see if you like it. If you do, then you should make decisions about your career goals and desired geography, then re-ask the question here on SDN, and I would guess that the reception will be warmer. In general, "top 5" or "top 10" are moving targets with a great deal of subjectivity. Top academic programs will focus on USMLE scores, and yours is great, as well as research, grades, AOA status, LORs, and the prestige of your current med school. It's a complex equation. I definitely think you should work hard to honor the surgery clerkship and do well on the shelf. Additionally, you should try to get involved in some research projects soon, and they don't have to necessarily be surgical.

 

[Jbgustavo]

Are you are a 3rd year MS in a US allopathic program? The timeline seems a bit odd with away rotations preceding your surgery clerkship. Regardless, it's ok to be curious about multiple specialties, but I think some SDNers here think your need to "figure it out as quick as possible" is a bit rushed.

I suggest you do your surgical clerkship and see if you like it. If you do, then you should make decisions about your career goals and desired geography, then re-ask the question here on SDN, and I would guess that the reception will be warmer. In general, "top 5" or "top 10" are moving targets with a great deal of subjectivity. Top academic programs will focus on USMLE scores, and yours is great, as well as research, grades, AOA status, LORs, and the prestige of your current med school. It's a complex equation. I definitely think you should work hard to honor the surgery clerkship and do well on the shelf. Additionally, you should try to get involved in some research projects soon, and they don't have to necessarily be surgical.

I unfortunately have surgery as my last rotation this year, so by the time I am done with it, vsas will already be well underway for most programs so that's why I'm feeling a little rushed. I am going to try to do some shadowing outside of my other rotations coming up to get some exposure before then.

I may be feeling more stress about this than I need to, so thanks for putting it in some perspective.

 

[thedrjojo]

All programs are in the top 5...