What is the job/training market like for American graduates of UK schools?

[bluejay96]

Hi all! I'm an American student currently in my junior year at an American undergrad university, and growing increasingly interested in perhaps studying medicine in the UK with the hope of eventually getting trained/obtaining a job there. I've seen a few questions sort of like this before but not lots of replies, so please excuse me if this is a duplication.

Obviously studying in the UK would be a big decision, and I know it won't do me any favors in terms of coming back to the US to work here, but what are the chances of finding a place for training/residency in the UK as an American? I know there are serious problems facing the NHS right now, with positions being cut, but at the same time I keep hearing about doctor shortages in the UK, and I can't seem to wrap my mind around any concrete idea of what the job market is like for new-baked doctors, especially foreigners who train in UK schools...

Is it much more difficult to get matched for a position? What is that process like? What is generally the path toward being a consultant (I believe this is about the same as an attending in the US)? I'm particularly interested in neurology; is that a difficult field to get into?

Also, any general information about work environment/hours/pay/quality of life would be immensely appreciated!

Please help me out, all who know anything on the topic

Thanks!

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[bluejay96]

wow it's radio silence here

 

[Medstart108]

Hi all! I'm an American student currently in my junior year at an American undergrad university, and growing increasingly interested in perhaps studying medicine in the UK with the hope of eventually getting trained/obtaining a job there. I've seen a few questions sort of like this before but not lots of replies, so please excuse me if this is a duplication.

Obviously studying in the UK would be a big decision, and I know it won't do me any favors in terms of coming back to the US to work here, but what are the chances of finding a place for training/residency in the UK as an American? I know there are serious problems facing the NHS right now, with positions being cut, but at the same time I keep hearing about doctor shortages in the UK, and I can't seem to wrap my mind around any concrete idea of what the job market is like for new-baked doctors, especially foreigners who train in UK schools...

Is it much more difficult to get matched for a position? What is that process like? What is generally the path toward being a consultant (I believe this is about the same as an attending in the US)? I'm particularly interested in neurology; is that a difficult field to get into?

Also, any general information about work environment/hours/pay/quality of life would be immensely appreciated!

Please help me out, all who know anything on the topic

Thanks!

Not many out there with both UK and american medical school experiences out there are there haha..

If you get into medical school in the UK as an American, you will have absolutely 0 trouble getting a job afterwards provided you apply to the regular A100 programs (those are the vast majority of programs, all the regular programs are A100 with a few exceptions). There is a 7.5% international student limit in the A100 courses which makes them relatively competitive. There are many international students from countries like Singapore, HK, India who try to apply. You will be placed on visas throughout your training until pretty much the end of your residency or until you get married to a Brit whichever comes first hahaha..

In the UK the process is medical school which is 4 years for graduate entry programs and 5 or 6 for undergrad entry ones. Followed by 2 years of foundation training where you get paid but rotate on various services. Then you start specialty training/residency which lasts anywhere from 3-8 years.

After that you become a consultant. More or less consultant=attending although most would argue a consultant is a slightly more difficult position to obtain. Attendings in the states are essentially anyone who has completed their training, but consultants you have to apply for a special post, there are fully trained doctors who work as SAS, specialty and associate specialist doctors, often for those who haven't been able to obtain a consultant post.

The pay is significantly less in the UK, if you factor in the current exchange rate it would be close to horrific (by US standards). Doctors start off at 22k pounds a year (28k in the second year and then progresses more slowly), which in the old system was almost 100% likely to be banded which means a bonus of 50%, so pretty decent. The early pay is at or better than what US residents get, but consultants in the UK typically will earn anywhere between 80-120k pounds after bonuses a year. There was a sample of a senior respirologist who through all sources of income combined (including private) made 185k pounds a year (this may be higher for a specialist who had more private work as part of normal course like a plastic surgeon or orthopod). These salaries will be taxed fully but there won't be overhead.

Consultants can work privately but the billings for private will not be high for the majority of doctors, since with a concurrent public system demand for private procedures isn't great. Only really exists in London for the "top consultants" and for a few procedures that take longer in the public system or for the ultra wealthy.

Quality of life will be better, residents typically work 60 hours or so a week, technically European working regulations limit that to 40 or so but people find ways to flaunt the rules by including "resident education" as separate hours. This could change with Brexit, traditionally the Brits work long hours.

Consultants probably work anywhere from 40-60 hours on avg a week depending on your specialty. The key thing is that no matter what kind of specialist you are your public salary is the same, so neurosurgeons are making the same salary as a pediatrician or an emerg doc.