What is the max # of research projects one can juggle during M2?

[Foot Fetish]

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So, regrettably and idiotically, I squandered my first year of medical school with 14 hour library sessions chasing 100's in a true pass/fail curriculum when I should have been cranking out papers and networking...What's done is done, and I'm over it... Now, as I prepare to enter M2, I am left with no choice but to unlock what I like to refer to as "hyper-gunner" mode. In addition to my daily Step 1 studying, I am working on 2 research projects, with a 3rd now in the planning stage... I didn't have the social wherewithal to weasel my way into ongoing studies, so I started all 3 projects "de novo." Again, no regrets.

Realistically, how many research projects can one pull off during M2 while still sufficiently preparing to annihilate boards (250+++) ? I anticipate M3 producing 2 case reports, tops, and I refuse to take a research year, so I need to maximize pubs now.

However, at the same time, we all have something to learn from the tragic case of @failedatlife , who published an insane # of papers but fell shy of his goal Step 1 score (No hard feelings, bud. I think you'll make a great podiatry technician one day.....JK! lol... I think you're still well within the running for ENT, honestly, given your prodigious research history). But I digress...

Thoughts?

 

[Dr. Death]

I think you are vain
I think you like to make people feel inferior
I think you should keep @failedatlife name out of your mouth
But most importantly,
I think you should stop making so many SDN posts

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

1 is doable, 2 probably too much depending on your level of involvement (maybe get it started and then have a 1st year do the dirty work for you), 3 is really not doable.

 

[Foot Fetish]

I think you are vain
I think you like to make people feel inferior
I think you should keep @failedatlife name out of your mouth
But most importantly,
I think you should stop making so many SDN posts

I'm not vain, just anxious and a bit hypomanic.

I'm not trying to make people feel inferior. I am simply trying to crowd-source career advice. That's sort of the point of this website.

If it's the content of my posts that makes people feel inferior, then they need to ask themselves why they feel that way. If it's because they feel like they're not doing enough to realize their ambitions, then maybe they ought to reevaluate their approach to school. If, after reevaluating, they conclude that they are actually doing the right amount, then their reaction to the content of my post was illogical. If, however, they find that they are not doing enough to realize their goals, then they should be thankful for the stimulus that was my post.

If it's my writing style that makes people feel inferior, then they should grow some thicker skin. I am just speaking my mind, or "keeping it real," as they say. Again, I never said anything offensive or tried to put anyone down (my jab at @failedatlife was obviously a joke). Furthermore, the only reason I like to call out @failedatlife is because he is one of my all-time favorite posters on SDN. I think his posts are hilarious, which is exactly what he intends if you haven't noticed. He has created a comedic persona of himself, which I am paying homage to. Analogously, if someone posted a comment about foot fetishism and tagged me, I would never get offended because, like @failedatlife , that is simply part of my persona on here, which I am happy and amused to live up to.

Lastly, if you don't like my threads, then ignore them. I'm not the only person who makes lots of threads. Also I feel like, more often than not, my threads end up generating a lot of interesting discussion, so overall I think they are a benefit to the community.

 

[username456789]

It amuses me how easily FF riles up other posters.

 

[cripplepundit]

under 4 research projects in M2 = family med in Detroit, sorry m8 good luck w/ the scramble

 

[theonlytycrane]

I enjoy your posts 🙂

Did you end up acing out m1?

-incoming ms1


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[waffles4president]

You seriously might wanna invest in an SSRI, bro. That kinda anxiety kills.

But to answer your question depends on your goals. If you legit want to contribute to your chosen field then focus on one project. Quality > quantity. A solid project can net you multiple posters, presentations, and if you're lucky a peer-reviewed pub. But if you're just looking for more lines on your cv then, by all means, probably continue with the project hoarding.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Foot Fetish]

I enjoy your posts 🙂

Did you end up acing out m1?

-incoming ms1


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Thank you 🙂
If we had letter grades, then yes, I technically "aced" M1 by the numbers. But, in reality, it just amounted to straight P's lol...

Good luck with M1, buddy. It's a doozy.

You seriously might wanna invest in an SSRI, bro. That kinda anxiety kills.

But to answer your question depends on your goals. If you legit want to contribute to your chosen field then focus on one project. Quality > quantity. A solid project can net you multiple posters, presentations, and if you're lucky a peer-reviewed pub. But if you're just looking for more lines on your cv then, by all means, probably continue with the project hoarding.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I "tried" an SSRI once actually. I stopped after 3 days because it gave me unpleasant GI side effects. I think I manage my anxiety well enough by eliciting affirmation and encouragement from strangers on the internet. Another way I cope is by psyching myself up with this "hard-ass" persona, even if it feels forced at times. I guess I really believe in "fake it 'til you make it." Like, when a task seems hopelessly daunting and makes me want to curl up in a ball, I will try to steel myself by imagining that I am some sort of savage hyper-gunner who can harness manic energy to accomplish the impossible. Basically, I'm a crazy person...

And thanks for the advice. That's what I've been trying to do actually. I have one "main" project. My baby. The one I hope to submit to a big name journal. The rest are pretty much just CV fodder, like you said.

 

[mw18]

You want derm, right? Some of this is general, but some is likely more specific to what PDs like in that specific field. If you're still pretty undecided, then that's fine. But if you are looking for a specific specialty, then say so, and people in that field can chime in.

It really depends on your particular strengths, though. I didn't study for step 1 at all in MS2 until light studying the few weeks before my dedicated time. Then I went hard and scored in your goal area. Maybe not with all the "+" signs. But well enough to be in contention for any specialty. I worked pretty hard in my classes, but really took advantage of the fact I was better at studying in MS2 and relaxed the rest of the time and finished up my work on my M1-M2 summer project. I could have squeezed 10-20 hours a week into research if I wanted. If you are going to tack board studying on, and are intending to cut back your MS2 studying and embrace that P/F life, then it's difficult but probably doable. But don't take on too many projects. One new one, and wrapping up your old ones should be plenty. Keep in mind that the NRMP Charting Outcomes numbers are posters, presentations, abstracts, and papers. Not just papers.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

So, regrettably and idiotically, I squandered my first year of medical school with 14 hour library sessions chasing 100's in a true pass/fail curriculum when I should have been cranking out papers and networking...What's done is done, and I'm over it... Now, as I prepare to enter M2, I am left with no choice but to unlock what I like to refer to as "hyper-gunner" mode. In addition to my daily Step 1 studying, I am working on 2 research projects, with a 3rd now in the planning stage... I didn't have the social wherewithal to weasel my way into ongoing studies, so I started all 3 projects "de novo." Again, no regrets.

Realistically, how many research projects can one pull off during M2 while still sufficiently preparing to annihilate boards (250+++) ? I anticipate M3 producing 2 case reports, tops, and I refuse to take a research year, so I need to maximize pubs now.

However, at the same time, we all have something to learn from the tragic case of @failedatlife , who published an insane # of papers but fell shy of his goal Step 1 score (No hard feelings, bud. I think you'll make a great podiatry technician one day.....JK! lol... I think you're still well within the running for ENT, honestly, given your prodigious research history). But I digress...

Thoughts?

Funny how the person with a foot fetish is advising somebody to be a podiatry technician 😉

 

[theonlytycrane]

@Foot Fetish

Kinda off topic (I apologize!), but in other posts I think I've seen that you use Bros deck. Do you / have you used firecracker at all?

 

[Foot Fetish]

@Foot Fetish

Kinda off topic (I apologize!), but in other posts I think I've seen that you use Bros deck. Do you / have you used firecracker at all?

I've never used Firecracker, but a lot of my classmates swear by it. Personally, I am an Anki guy through and through. I prefer being able to edit and add cards, which Firecracker doesn't allow for as far as I know. That's just me though. I think you can't go wrong if you pick one and stick with it.

 

[Redpancreas]

I think 30 during M2 is the maximum if you want to focus on quality. The reason is you will only have time to be working on 3 per organ system during M2 so 10 per organ system. Keep in mind you need prolific research (30+ publication so try to do more after M2, don't worry if they're all not first author but try to make at least 66% of them that way), do extremely well on Step 1 (270 at minimum unless you have connections) and achieve AOA (non-negotiable) if you want to even have your application put through the screening process for the screening process for fields like PM&R, Psychiatry, Peds, Family, & uncompetitive IM programs. For something like General Surgery, EM, or quality IM/Peds/Family you may be able to get away with what I listed above but will need outstanding LORs. Just to be safe, double the publications and make sure you are the top student in your class and that none of your clinical grades are below Honors (AOA and HP isn't good enough). As for something like ENT/Plastics/Derm/Opthalmology/etc. you will need to be the top student in your region (midwest, NE, etc) of medical schools, be featured on your school's website at least 4-5 times a year, be the president of your AOA/Gold Humanism and found at least 3 organizations at your school, and most importantly, you need to triple the aforementioned publications and ensure that at least 10 of those publications are immediately translatable to the academic center of the residency center that is graciously granting you the opportunity to train there (oh yeah, Step is 280s and don't expect connections or the fact that your research is ground-breaking to cut you slack here). Even with all of that, you also need some way to distinguish yourself by holding a leadership position in the government (not president because we know how easily that is achieved these days) but something like surgeon general. I recommend traveling to a foreign country, learn their native language in your spare time, and gain the political connections to be elected to their equivalent of health minister, etc. If you're applying to Orthopedic Surgery, having something special like Heisman in college would definitely help. An easier path would be the NBA MVP award which just requires playing the role of a martyr while padding your statistics so you can defer to that when pundits question your value. I can PM you a guide to that if you're interested FF. That's about it. I know, I know, this is quite a lot and I understand if you're overwhelmed. I know this may seem like a lot but you'll thank me some day when you realize that this is what's required.

 

[tymont12]

The annoyance is that you repeatedly ask for input on things that--by your own explanations--you don't need help with. Most of your posts read as an excuse to tell people how perfectly you are doing as a med student. Whether that is purposeful or not, I don't know.

No one can tell you how many projects is too many...only you can infer whether you are able to take on more. If you want to publish though, your goal should be to have as many projects cooking as possible because these sorts of things usually take bursts of activity rather than consistent weekly hours.

 

[anon55]

So, regrettably and idiotically, I squandered my first year of medical school with 14 hour library sessions chasing 100's in a true pass/fail curriculum when I should have been cranking out papers and networking...What's done is done, and I'm over it... Now, as I prepare to enter M2, I am left with no choice but to unlock what I like to refer to as "hyper-gunner" mode. In addition to my daily Step 1 studying, I am working on 2 research projects, with a 3rd now in the planning stage... I didn't have the social wherewithal to weasel my way into ongoing studies, so I started all 3 projects "de novo." Again, no regrets.

Realistically, how many research projects can one pull off during M2 while still sufficiently preparing to annihilate boards (250+++) ? I anticipate M3 producing 2 case reports, tops, and I refuse to take a research year, so I need to maximize pubs now.

However, at the same time, we all have something to learn from the tragic case of @failedatlife , who published an insane # of papers but fell shy of his goal Step 1 score (No hard feelings, bud. I think you'll make a great podiatry technician one day.....JK! lol... I think you're still well within the running for ENT, honestly, given your prodigious research history). But I digress...

Thoughts?

As someone who chased 100s the first 2 years of medical school, although not in a P/F curriculum, I'd put money on the fact that the info you learned and the depth with which you learned it will be extremely important in allowing you to score what you want on boards. Don't discount how much detailed knowledge it takes to achieve your goal score and, although obviously just my opinion, simply focusing on board material won't be enough to get that "++++" if you don't learn every bit of class stuff as well.

 

[Goro]

So, regrettably and idiotically, I squandered my first year of medical school with 14 hour library sessions chasing 100's in a true pass/fail curriculum when I should have been cranking out papers and networking...What's done is done, and I'm over it... Now, as I prepare to enter M2, I am left with no choice but to unlock what I like to refer to as "hyper-gunner" mode. In addition to my daily Step 1 studying, I am working on 2 research projects, with a 3rd now in the planning stage... I didn't have the social wherewithal to weasel my way into ongoing studies, so I started all 3 projects "de novo." Again, no regrets.

Realistically, how many research projects can one pull off during M2 while still sufficiently preparing to annihilate boards (250+++) ? I anticipate M3 producing 2 case reports, tops, and I refuse to take a research year, so I need to maximize pubs now.

However, at the same time, we all have something to learn from the tragic case of @failedatlife , who published an insane # of papers but fell shy of his goal Step 1 score (No hard feelings, bud. I think you'll make a great podiatry technician one day.....JK! lol... I think you're still well within the running for ENT, honestly, given your prodigious research history). But I digress...

Thoughts?

FF, only you can answer this question.

 

[theonlytycrane]

@Foot Fetish Out of curiosity, why are you against a research year?

 

[Lexicon0]

This question is akin to asking 'How many passes of first aid should I do to get X score on step 1' or 'How many hours should I put in to do well on X shelf' - it's entirely subjective and depends on a bevy of factors (you're motivation, the stage at which the projects you are taking on are at, how much bureaucracy is involved in terms of IRB at your institution, how quickly you can crank out manuscripts, are you doing your own stats or depending on statisticians, etc..). You'd be better off asking upperclassmen at your school going into derm. Also, if all you're projects involve starting from scratch (writing IRBs) you're going about research all wrong (especially if you're avoiding a research year). Get in touch with residents in your derm dept and see if they could use someone to review some charts. I'd be very surprised if you had trouble finding ongoing research you can jump into.

 

[Foot Fetish]

@Foot Fetish Out of curiosity, why are you against a research year?

I just don't want to waste any more time and money getting to where I want to go. I already took a 2 year gap before med school. I'm going straight through or bust this time.

This question is akin to asking 'How many passes of first aid should I do to get X score on step 1' or 'How many hours should I put in to do well on X shelf' - it's entirely subjective and depends on a bevy of factors (you're motivation, the stage at which the projects you are taking on are at, how much bureaucracy is involved in terms of IRB at your institution, how quickly you can crank out manuscripts, are you doing your own stats or depending on statisticians, etc..). You'd be better off asking upperclassmen at your school going into derm. Also, if all you're projects involve starting from scratch (writing IRBs) you're going about research all wrong (especially if you're avoiding a research year). Get in touch with residents in your derm dept and see if they could use someone to review some charts. I'd be very surprised if you had trouble finding ongoing research you can jump into.

The IRB at my school has a shockingly fast turn around time for chart review type projects. They approved my IRB proposal in like 3 weeks with no ammendments needed. So, in light of this, there's no reason not to start from scratch. Writing has always been my strong suit and is the least of my worries. I can whip up a proposal in an afternoon and a manuscript in under a week. It's the actual data collection that takes time. That's why residents and attendings assign that part of the research to med schools. So, in that sense, weaseling my way into ongoing projects wouldn't really make that much of a difference in terms of time commitment. Plus, I think you gain extra satisfaction when you bring a project from inception to publication...not to mention extra brownie points from your mentors, who will be totally impressed by how capable you are. Nothing against people who take the easier route of helping out with ongoing projects. I admit it's efficient and smart, and like I said before, it would have been my preference.

There's no time to look back or hesitate at this point though. I need to finish what I started. I got 2 projects nearly 50% done at this point, with a month of precious summer vacation time remaining. I think starting that third big project from scratch at this point will be insanely difficult but ultimately possible. My goal is to be wrapping everything up around New Years and then focusing fully on Step 1. I'd feel really great going into M3 with 3 high impact pubs under my belt. Then I would just have to do a couple case reports and maybe a presentation or two, and I'd be all set I think.

Also, my hope for this thread was for people to share their experiences of doing research during M2. I wanted to get an idea of the amount that others have been able to do.

 

[Aerus]

If it means anything, I enjoy reading your threads and posts too. I think sometimes people take this site too seriously and think that personalities they find annoying should not be on this site or discouraged, but the truth is that I'm sure your posts and the discussions you have generated have helped many med students who have similar ambitions as you. A diversity of ideas and topics is always useful. Your conviction to stay true to yourself despite what others say is admirable. Keep doing you.

 

[Lya]

There's no time to look back or hesitate at this point though. I need to finish what I started. I got 2 projects nearly 50% done at this point, with a month of precious summer vacation time remaining. I think starting that third big project from scratch at this point will be insanely difficult but ultimately possible. My goal is to be wrapping everything up around New Years and then focusing fully on Step 1. I'd feel really great going into M3 with 3 high impact pubs under my belt. Then I would just have to do a couple case reports and maybe a presentation or two, and I'd be all set I think.

Also, my hope for this thread was for people to share their experiences of doing research during M2. I wanted to get an idea of the amount that others have been able to do.

I've seen many M1 students who ambitiously said they would like to continue their research during M2 after their summer. I was one of them as well. But when M2 actually started, they realized there was no spare time to do any substantial research on top of classes and board studying. Sure, you can do research during Thanksgiving and etc. But if you really want to take board prep seriously, actually plan to finish multiple qbanks thoroughly, and keep up with your anki all at the same time, doing meaningful research during M2 might be very challenging realistically. Looking back, I have no regrets for having done minimal research during M2.

If I were you, I would try to finish those 2 projects before M2. You can start your 3rd project during M2 if you still feel you will have enough time. I think this would be far better than starting your 3rd project now/soon and being unable to finish the first two projects that you thought you would manage to complete.

Lastly, if you can do several research electives during M3/4, you will realize you can actually do more than just several case reports or presentations.

 

[Foot Fetish]

I've seen many M1 students who ambitiously said they would like to continue their research during M2 after their summer. I was one of them as well. But when M2 actually started, they realized there was no spare time to do any substantial research on top of classes and board studying. Sure, you can do research during Thanksgiving and etc. But if you really want to take board prep seriously, actually plan to finish multiple qbanks thoroughly, and keep up with your anki all at the same time, doing meaningful research during M2 might be very challenging realistically. Looking back, I have no regrets for having done minimal research during M2.

If I were you, I would try to finish those 2 projects before M2. You can start your 3rd project during M2 if you still feel you will have enough time. I think this would be far better than starting your 3rd project now/soon and being unable to finish the first two projects that you thought you would manage to complete.

Lastly, if you can do several research electives during M3/4, you will realize you can actually do more than just several case reports or presentations.

Thank your for that perspective. One of the projects will certainly be finished before M2. The other one is a beast, and I will be lucky to finish the data collection before M2 (we are shooting for a huge sample size). But once that's done, I hopefully can just hand it off to the stats people and then just write the manuscript, which I think will be the easier part.

As for doing research during M2, I agree it's not ideal. I would love to be able to just focus 100% on boards...That said, I have been studying intensely for boards for the past 3 months or so, maturing over 8000 Anki cards in that time. I am hoping to use this as a buffer to give me more time to do research. For example, by the end of the summer, I will have essentially mastered Biochemistry, Microbiology, Embryology, and a few other topics. Hopefully I will never have to seriously review these topics again as a result, as long as I keep up with my Anki cards. While others will have to devote significant time to pull out this minutia-laden material out from the deep recesses of their brains, I will already have it locked and loaded, giving me more time to focus on other things....that's the hope at least. Plus, bear in mind, that I have precisely zero social / personal life in medical school. That's a discussion for a different thread...but the point is that I typically have more time in a day than the average med student because of this. No get-togethers, no bar hops, no going to the gym, no volunteering, no low yield interest groups...plus averaging 6 hours or less of sleep per night. On a handful of occassions (finals /midterms), I literally spent 16 hours straight in the library. And not "check facebook and glance at your notes while listening to music" time either. Actually studying for 90+% of that time. I am not saying that to boast, just to give you an accurate picture of how much time I am able to make in a day when I need to. When you take all of that stuff into consideration, you end up with a lot of time, which hopefully I can capitalize on.

Also, my "scheme" for the tentative 3rd project is to help get it set up and then allow a "research year" co-investigator student do the bulk of the work. I would settle for a 2nd or 3rd place authorship on that one as a trade-off for precious time.

 

[meurotic]

Thank your for that perspective. One of the projects will certainly be finished before M2. The other one is a beast, and I will be lucky to finish the data collection before M2 (we are shooting for a huge sample size). But once that's done, I hopefully can just hand it off to the stats people and then just write the manuscript, which I think will be the easier part.

As for doing research during M2, I agree it's not ideal. I would love to be able to just focus 100% on boards...That said, I have been studying intensely for boards for the past 3 months or so, maturing over 8000 Anki cards in that time. I am hoping to use this as a buffer to give me more time to do research. For example, by the end of the summer, I will have essentially mastered Biochemistry, Microbiology, Embryology, and a few other topics. Hopefully I will never have to seriously review these topics again as a result, as long as I keep up with my Anki cards. While others will have to devote significant time to pull out this minutia-laden material out from the deep recesses of their brains, I will already have it locked and loaded, giving me more time to focus on other things....that's the hope at least. Plus, bear in mind, that I have precisely zero social / personal life in medical school. That's a discussion for a different thread...but the point is that I typically have more time in a day than the average med student because of this. No get-togethers, no bar hops, no going to the gym, no volunteering, no low yield interest groups...plus averaging 6 hours or less of sleep per night. On a handful of occassions (finals /midterms), I literally spent 16 hours straight in the library. And not "check facebook and glance at your notes while listening to music" time either. Actually studying for 90+% of that time. I am not saying that to boast, just to give you an accurate picture of how much time I am able to make in a day when I need to. When you take all of that stuff into consideration, you end up with a lot of time, which hopefully I can capitalize on.

Also, my "scheme" for the tentative 3rd project is to help get it set up and then allow a "research year" co-investigator student do the bulk of the work. I would settle for a 2nd or 3rd place authorship on that one as a trade-off for precious time.

With all due respect, I want to know what happened in your life that made you this way.

 

[Foot Fetish]

With all due respect, I want to know what happened in your life that made you this way.

It's a long story, but a huge part of it is the fact that I was the exact opposite type of student throughout college. Think Animal House. Those years, though enjoyable, caused me a lot of undue stress after college, and I had to waste 2 gap years catching up on all the things that normal premeds had been doing since Day 1 of undergrad. I was forced to become a gunner, and now I can't go back.

 

[Carbon090]

Thank your for that perspective. One of the projects will certainly be finished before M2. The other one is a beast, and I will be lucky to finish the data collection before M2 (we are shooting for a huge sample size). But once that's done, I hopefully can just hand it off to the stats people and then just write the manuscript, which I think will be the easier part.

As for doing research during M2, I agree it's not ideal. I would love to be able to just focus 100% on boards...That said, I have been studying intensely for boards for the past 3 months or so, maturing over 8000 Anki cards in that time. I am hoping to use this as a buffer to give me more time to do research. For example, by the end of the summer, I will have essentially mastered Biochemistry, Microbiology, Embryology, and a few other topics. Hopefully I will never have to seriously review these topics again as a result, as long as I keep up with my Anki cards. While others will have to devote significant time to pull out this minutia-laden material out from the deep recesses of their brains, I will already have it locked and loaded, giving me more time to focus on other things....that's the hope at least. Plus, bear in mind, that I have precisely zero social / personal life in medical school. That's a discussion for a different thread...but the point is that I typically have more time in a day than the average med student because of this. No get-togethers, no bar hops, no going to the gym, no volunteering, no low yield interest groups...plus averaging 6 hours or less of sleep per night. On a handful of occassions (finals /midterms), I literally spent 16 hours straight in the library. And not "check facebook and glance at your notes while listening to music" time either. Actually studying for 90+% of that time. I am not saying that to boast, just to give you an accurate picture of how much time I am able to make in a day when I need to. When you take all of that stuff into consideration, you end up with a lot of time, which hopefully I can capitalize on.

Also, my "scheme" for the tentative 3rd project is to help get it set up and then allow a "research year" co-investigator student do the bulk of the work. I would settle for a 2nd or 3rd place authorship on that one as a trade-off for precious time.

Stay safe and watch your health brah. Really, I'm sensing a major burnout at that rate.

 

[ortnakas]

Plus, bear in mind, that I have precisely zero social / personal life in medical school. That's a discussion for a different thread...but the point is that I typically have more time in a day than the average med student because of this. No get-togethers, no bar hops, no going to the gym, no volunteering, no low yield interest groups...plus averaging 6 hours or less of sleep per night. On a handful of occassions (finals /midterms), I literally spent 16 hours straight in the library. And not "check facebook and glance at your notes while listening to music" time either. Actually studying for 90+% of that time. I am not saying that to boast, just to give you an accurate picture of how much time I am able to make in a day when I need to. When you take all of that stuff into consideration, you end up with a lot of time, which hopefully I can capitalize on.

My general annoyance with your humblebrag threads aside, I'm worried about you-- this isn't healthy or sustainable. I respect your work ethic, but nobody is immune to burnout.

 

[Medin2017]

My general annoyance with your humblebrag threads aside, I'm worried about you-- this isn't healthy or sustainable. I respect your work ethic, but nobody is immune to burnout.

Can you explain the whole burnout thing to me? I feel like humans can adapt to really terrible conditions if they have to (like Irish steelworkers in the U.S working 16 hour days every day or something like that in the 1800s). Isn't a lot of this relative? Like someone who never studied more than 10 minutes a day would think a college student is at risk of burning out. Plus footfetish has been on this harsh schedule for like a year now right? Is there some specific time frame of this burnout you guys discuss?

Not everyone has the sheer genius to study 4 hours a day and take weekends off and still make the grades he's making. If he doesn't feel he's at that level, why not push it to the limits like he's doing to achieve his goal? Sounds naive as hell but I think it's a little unfair to say to someone who's not inherently genius or soaks info like a sponge to relax or take a step back if it could potentially cause his grades (or future step) to drop. Or are the hypercompetitive specialties only for those who can study much less and retain more and those who aren't like that shouldn't study to the max because they will "burn out"?

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I think the saddest part about this thread, is that you are talking to talk before walking the walk. Almost everyone here who are in competitive specialities, like IR, ortho, derm, subspeciality surgery, ENT, etc, have walked your walk.

When you scream out things like "I am going to study xyz" or "I am going to gun" it shows a lot of insecurity.

I wouldn't announce that **** until you matched.

 

[Carbon090]

Can you explain the whole burnout thing to me? I feel like humans can adapt to really terrible conditions if they have to (like Irish steelworkers in the U.S working 16 hour days every day or something like that in the 1800s). Isn't a lot of this relative? Like someone who never studied more than 10 minutes a day would think a college student is at risk of burning out. Plus footfetish has been on this harsh schedule for like a year now right? Is there some specific time frame of this burnout you guys discuss?

Not everyone has the sheer genius to study 4 hours a day and take weekends off and still make the grades he's making. If he doesn't feel he's at that level, why not push it to the limits like he's doing to achieve his goal? Sounds naive as hell but I think it's a little unfair to say to someone who's not inherently genius or soaks info like a sponge to relax or take a step back if it could potentially cause his grades (or future step) to drop. Or are the hypercompetitive specialties only for those who can study much less and retain more and those who aren't like that shouldn't study to the max because they will "burn out"?

It's obviously all relative. But from my perspective, I'm also doing a lot this summer and "gunning", but I'm also taking time to be mindful and make sure I'm at my optimal (involving a health diet and going to the gym). Some people can and do crazy things like that and manage to do well. In my experience, I know maybe one person who has done that successfully, I have friends that tried and have failed.

Again, it's all relative and subjective on the person.

 

[Foot Fetish]

It's obviously all relative. But from my perspective, I'm also doing a lot this summer and "gunning", but I'm also taking time to be mindful and make sure I'm at my optimal (involving a health diet and going to the gym). Some people can and do crazy things like that and manage to do well. In my experience, I know maybe one person who has done that successfully, I have friends that tried and have failed.

Again, it's all relative and subjective on the person.

Yeah, the only thing I'm worried about is the physical ramifications of being sedentary. I literally sit in a chair for over 12 hours per day. That cant be good. Mentally, I don't know. For some reason, I have always felt sort of "immune" to burnout, for lack of a better term. I realize that's probably what a lot of people say before they end up burning out, but I can only speak for myself and say that I have a very high tolerance for this kind of stuff. My only concern is for my physical wellbeing.

I think the saddest part about this thread, is that you are talking to talk before walking the walk. Almost everyone here who are in competitive specialities, like IR, ortho, derm, subspeciality surgery, ENT, etc, have walked your walk.

When you scream out things like "I am going to study xyz" or "I am going to gun" it shows a lot of insecurity.

I wouldn't announce that **** until you matched.

Again, I'm just plainly stating exactly what it is that I'm doing. I never stated that I think this will all amount to matching in my desired specialty. That is obviously the goal. I don't see how stating what you are going to study or do is a sign of insecurity. I mean yeah, I am insecure in the sense that you would be a fool to be too confident in such a competitive process. I'm just doing the best I can, and yeah, I refer to it as "gunning" because it is blatantly obvious to me that I am among a handful of people in my class who are putting in this many hours in a day. I am always the last one to leave the library for example, even after the M2's who are preparing for boards. I am not saying anything about my classmates' work ethic or future. For all I know they are much more intelligent and need a fraction of the time to accomplish what takes me a full day. I am just stating a fact that I put in more time than the average student in my class. That's it. Believe me, if I thought I could work less and achieve my goals, I would. I am just doing what I think is necessary for ME, which just happens to take up essentially my entire day. We're not all geniuses. Some of us have to rely on brute force.

 

[backside_attack]

My only concern is for my physical wellbeing.

Mental health be damned!

 

[Foot Fetish]

Mental health be damned!

Maybe its because I come from a culture where we (admittedly ignorantly) belittle mental health issues. Maybe it's because I come from very humble means , so being able to sit in an air conditioned library and study seems like a huge luxury. I am not saying burn-out isnt real. It most certainly is. But, as that other poster said above, it's all relative. What is burn-out inducing for one person may be a treat for someone else.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Maybe its because I come from a culture where we (admittedly ignorantly) belittle mental health issues. Maybe it's because I come from very humble means , so being able to sit in an air conditioned library and study seems like a huge luxury. I am not saying burn-out isnt real. It most certainly is. But, as that other poster said above, it's all relative. What is burn-out inducing for one person may be a treat for someone else.

Culture difference doesn't prevent burn out.

 

[username456789]

One of my favoriate story, is that since I am a humble guy, I never really told me classmate

Wut

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Wut

Message didnt delete

 

[theonlytycrane]

@Foot Fetish do you go to lecture or watch recordings? Also, do you go hard every weekend? Or sometimes take time to relax / exercise / cook?

 

[Gorne]

You're doing too much to stay afloat. Unless you actually have a personality disorder where your happiness stems from isolation and studying, you're going to eventually sink from exerting to much energy to stay afloat.

AOA, matching competitively, doing well on boards, does not take what you are doing.

If it takes you that much study time to be in the running, it might not be for you. There are people who will do 10,000 questions 10,000 anki cards and get a 240 while someone who does 1/4 of that will get that 260 you seek.

There is only so much you can do before it's diminishing returns, and you don't want your returns to deminish before your exam date and that's the path you are on.

 

[Foot Fetish]

You're doing too much to stay afloat. Unless you actually have a personality disorder where your happiness stems from isolation and studying, you're going to eventually sink from exerting to much energy to stay afloat.

AOA, matching competitively, doing well on boards, does not take what you are doing.

If it takes you that much study time to be in the running, it might not be for you. There are people who will do 10,000 questions 10,000 anki cards and get a 240 while someone who does 1/4 of that will get that 260 you seek.

There is only so much you can do before it's diminishing returns, and you don't want your returns to deminish before your exam date and that's the path you are on.

At the end of the day, I want to be able to look back on my efforts and honestly say that I tried my best. If I don't push it to the limit, then I'll always wonder what could have been if I had just tried harder. Better to overprepare than to underprepare.

The thing is, I don't NEED to study 16 hours per day to "stay afloat." In fact, on most class exams, I come out feeling like I massively overprepared. That was before I realized that class exams are worthless since we are true P/F. Nowadays , I am still apt to spend 16 hours in the library, but it's not because I'm studying for school. It's because I study way ahead of what they teach us in class. For example, I have already learned all of parasitology and antimicrobials, which they don't even cover until M2. You made it sound like I am doing all this just to be keep up. In reality, I am trying to lap everyone.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

At the end of the day, I want to be able to look back on my efforts and honestly say that I tried my best. If I don't push it to the limit, then I'll always wonder what could have been if I had just tried harder. Better to overprepare than to underprepare.

The thing is, I don't NEED to study 16 hours per day to "stay afloat." In fact, on most class exams, I come out feeling like I massively overprepared. That was before I realized that class exams are worthless since we are true P/F. Nowadays , I am still apt to spend 16 hours in the library, but it's not because I'm studying for school. It's because I study way ahead of what they teach us in class. For example, I have already learned all of parasitology and antimicrobials, which they don't even cover until M2. You made it sound like I am doing all this just to be keep up. In reality, I am trying to lap everyone.

Learning ahead doesn't "lap everyone"

The secret in the academic game is to achieve maximum efficiency.

For example, I had single digit percentile in training exam each year consistently, that's because I did not study any thing besides knowledge I needed for work and safely intepret images. I used all those time to do research.

After I interviewed for IR, I then did over 13,000 questions to prepare for our board, came out felt like I crushed it harder than people who studied everyday.

Now I both matched into a top 10 fellowship and felt like I did great on my boards, that's efficiency.

In fact, It would have been inefficient to learn any esoteric fact I didn't need in order to do well on the intraining as radiology match does not require those scores so to do well on them rather than using those time for research is inefficient.

 

[Medin2017]

You're doing too much to stay afloat. Unless you actually have a personality disorder where your happiness stems from isolation and studying, you're going to eventually sink from exerting to much energy to stay afloat.

AOA, matching competitively, doing well on boards, does not take what you are doing.

If it takes you that much study time to be in the running, it might not be for you. There are people who will do 10,000 questions 10,000 anki cards and get a 240 while someone who does 1/4 of that will get that 260 you seek.

There is only so much you can do before it's diminishing returns, and you don't want your returns to deminish before your exam date and that's the path you are on.

I mean the person getting a higher score while studying less than you is irrelevant though right? Or are you someone who compares themselves with classmates and worries someone is doing better with less work?

"if it takes you that much work to get what you want it might not be for you" sounds like some real bs. "Oh you aren't inherently as smart as someone else? Stay mediocre- don't bother trying to work harder than others to achieve your goal."

 

[Gorne]

I mean the person getting a higher score while studying less than you is irrelevant though right? Or are you someone who compares themselves with classmates and worries someone is doing better with less work?

"if it takes you that much work to get what you want it might not be for you" sounds like some real bs. "Oh you aren't inherently as smart as someone else? Stay mediocre- don't bother trying to work harder than others to achieve your goal."

You missed my point entirely. The name of the game is efficiency. Its a marathon and not a sprint, the sprint for that step score should be during dedicated. If you have what it takes to get a 260, your going to get that 260 without the extreme studying previously mentioned. If you don't have what it takes to get a 260, no amount of self destruction will get you there.

 

[Medin2017]

You missed my point entirely. The name of the game is efficiency. Its a marathon and not a sprint, the sprint for that step score should be during dedicated. If you have what it takes to get a 260, your going to get that 260 without the extreme studying previously mentioned. If you don't have what it takes to get a 260, no amount of self destruction will get you there.

Got it wasn't thinking in the context of step alone. Apparently footfetish is getting 100s and is near top of his class using self destruction. So you wouldn't agree that some people if studying hard and efficiently for step couldn't get a higher score (even marginally) by doubling the study time and still maintaining efficiency?

I know everyone tries to be efficient, but people are different, and there's not a single correct 100% efficient study style. Just like some people reread or make outlines while others can't learn as well using those methods even if it could save some time. I guess what I'm trying to say is what do you mean by efficient- just learning more in less time? I was on the "top 10% med student study advice thread" and plenty of top students were ankifying everything and admitting it was time consuming, but they reached their goals in the end so isn't that what really matters in the end?

 

[Doctor-S]

FF, only you can answer this question.

Agree with this.

 

[Gorne]

Got it wasn't thinking in the context of step alone. Apparently footfetish is getting 100s and is near top of his class using self destruction. So you wouldn't agree that some people if studying hard and efficiently for step couldn't get a higher score (even marginally) by doubling the study time and still maintaining efficiency?

I know everyone tries to be efficient, but people are different, and there's not a single correct 100% efficient study style. Just like some people reread or make outlines while others can't learn as well using those methods even if it could save some time. I guess what I'm trying to say is what do you mean by efficient- just learning more in less time? I was on the "top 10% med student study advice thread" and plenty of top students were ankifying everything and admitting it was time consuming, but they reached their goals in the end so isn't that what really matters in the end?

Everyone's different and to each their own of course, but studying to the point where your life is suffering tremendously is just not necessary. If someone is studying that hard usually there is inefficiency some where, but... maybe not?

 

[meurotic]

It's a long story, but a huge part of it is the fact that I was the exact opposite type of student throughout college. Think Animal House. Those years, though enjoyable, caused me a lot of undue stress after college, and I had to waste 2 gap years catching up on all the things that normal premeds had been doing since Day 1 of undergrad. I was forced to become a gunner, and now I can't go back.

I can relate entirely, as my story is about the same as yours. While I don't post here as often as you do, I have a similar work ethic and feel a similar amount of internal pressure.

That being said, make sure you take care of your health. Otherwise, I wish you all the success in the world.

Edit: Also, although they may be pricey, it might be time to consider purchasing a standing desk. They also don't seem to hard to dyi.