What is the most difficult skill to master in OD school?

[socal2014]

I read somewhere there is a station with maybe 12 procedures students have to pass before moving onto 3rd year. Not exactly sure if this is right, but from what I read, that seemed like the most difficult part of optometry school.

What would be the most difficult procedure to "master" in optometry school? Easiest?

Most time consuming procedures to master?

Frequency of hard/easy procedures?

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[KHE]

I read somewhere there is a station with maybe 12 procedures students have to pass before moving onto 3rd year. Not exactly sure if this is right, but from what I read, that seemed like the most difficult part of optometry school.

What would be the most difficult procedure to "master" in optometry school? Easiest?

Most time consuming procedures to master?

Frequency of hard/easy procedures?

As far as skills that are done with regularity, I would have to say probably gonioscopy and retinoscopy.

Gonioscopy because it takes a long time to figure out what the hell you're looking at.

Retinoscopy because once you start dealing with actual patients with media opacities and wacked out Rxs, it can get hairy.

 

[JMU07]

As far as skills that are done with regularity, I would have to say probably gonioscopy and retinoscopy.

Gonioscopy because it takes a long time to figure out what the hell you're looking at.

Retinoscopy because once you start dealing with actual patients with media opacities and wacked out Rxs, it can get hairy.

Yeah, I'll agree with these. I had to do gonio for the first time on a real patient last week and it's not an issue for me to get the lens on and get a view, but interpreting what I'm seeing... is not as easy. I also have a really hard time with BIO. It's easy on classmates but real patients are not so willing to have that light in their eyes.

socal, the stations you're talking about sounds like part 3 of boards.. which you take at the end of 4th year. I know at SCO and probably other schools too you have to pass a pre-clinic checkout before you're allowed to see patients. It's just basically doing a full exam on a classmate so that they know you're competent enough to deal with real people.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

I read somewhere there is a station with maybe 12 procedures students have to pass before moving onto 3rd year. Not exactly sure if this is right, but from what I read, that seemed like the most difficult part of optometry school.

What would be the most difficult procedure to "master" in optometry school? Easiest?

Most time consuming procedures to master?

Frequency of hard/easy procedures?

I agree with KHE. Gonio is probably the most difficult, particularly 3-mirror. It takes some time to master putting the lens on with good clear views and turning it around uninterrupted.

It is one of the more difficult techniques to master by optometry and ophthalmology residents because it is not done on a consistent basis. Not saying its impossible, it just takes time and patience.

 

[362.04]

I think the easiest to learn is direct ophthalmoscopy. As a basic skill, practically everyone can see something with that. The retinoscope has to be interpreted as wells a perfected, making it a two-part task.

 

[socal2014]

This might be a dumb questions, but can one compare organic chemistry/physics labs to some of the procedures learned in OD school?

Just trying to get a sense of how difficult/easy the procedures would be.

 

[Mewcakes]

Organic chemistry? No. There is no decanting or hydrolysis in the practical execution of optometry. Physics? Eh...maybe kinda but not really. Someone who's actually a student/optometrist can answer that. But def no ochem similarities.

 

[achirum]

This might be a dumb questions, but can one compare organic chemistry/physics labs to some of the procedures learned in OD school?

Just trying to get a sense of how difficult/easy the procedures would be.

O chem, don't worry about it. Practically non-existant in OD school. Physics. Kind of tricky to answer because we don't learn physics persay, but Optics. Optics can be pretty difficult.

In terms of comparing those subject labs to procedures learned in OD school. I'm not sure what you are asking.

 

[4Eyes]

I'm probably wrong, I think the question is in terms of relative difficulty. Like the hardest thing in OD school could be compared, difficulty-wise, to what really hard thing in organic chem. So then s/he can think, "ohhh, it's THAT hard?" or "ohhh, it's only as hard as that?" But I can't really think of a good way to make a comparison like that.

 

[Mewcakes]

I'm not sure. That's like asking "Can you compare the things you do in neurosurgery to ochem and physics labs?". Granted that's extremely exaggerated, but you can't compare classes/labs to something like optometry...like...it's apples and oranges. Like asking if Retinoscopy is as hard as an obstacle course where I have to scale an 8ft wall and jump in and out of tires. I dunno, this is kind of a strange question, I'm not sure what you mean. Socal, can you clarify?

 

[Ediddy]

This might be a dumb questions, but can one compare organic chemistry/physics labs to some of the procedures learned in OD school?
Just trying to get a sense of how difficult/easy the procedures would be.

Apples and Oranges....

If you are wondering if Opt school will be more difficult then your undergrad, then yes. O-chem and physics are both challenging, but in undergrad you probably aren't taking anymore then 3, maybe 4 hard classes per term. In opt school so far we usually have 7-8 courses per term and at least 4-5 of those I consider to be hard courses (at least compared with ochem and physics). You won't exactly be camping at the library, but you will need to develop consistent study habits to stay on top of it all.

When it comes to the procedures.. some of them you will pick up easily while your classmates struggle, and some of them you'll feel like you are behind. Assuming you don't have some debilitating handicap, if you put in the time you'll learn them all- then you have the rest of your career to perfect them

 

[hyc03]

Personally I find BIO quite difficult. Getting views isnt that hard but trying pickup features from what you are looking at gets kinda confusing.
Indirect ophthalmoscopy is pretty easy to master but trying to perform it on a non-dilated pupil gets a bit tricky..

 

[ILOD]

Both scleral indentation and gonioscopy are the most difficult. I would recommend doing these procedures, or attempting, on all the patients you see in clinic while in school.

Once you are out, the patients become your patients to keep or lose to your competitors. You may not want to subject them to these procedures, unless there is an indication, in fear that they may not come back for more torture next year.

 

[RegularGuy]

Hey SoCal,

SCCO does have our own 12 stations proficiency where they test you on a bunch of clinical things we've learned in school. From what I understand, it's very similar to boards part 3. I hear fall quarter of the third year at SCCO is super tough because our course load is difficult and we have to practice for 12 stations.

That said, our part 3 pass rates are really high, and a lot of people attribute that to our 12 stations proficiency.

Personally, the think ret is still pretty hard to do. Classmates are easy, but there's some times (like elderly patients with TINY pupils or the -15 diopter patient with head tilt and ptosis I had yesterday) where I wish I were better at it.

Overall, though, it's just a matter of practice. The more you do things, the more comfortable you'll feel.

 

[physicslover]

i just started but im finding opthalmoscopy pretty difficult

 

[ATXDesi]

i just started but im finding opthalmoscopy pretty difficult

dont worry, oscope is difficult at first..practice makes perfect..it all about pupil size, angle of entry...etc But there will be a point where you can do it almost any type of patient.

I agree with others above, ret and gonio can be frustrating...With ret i can get thrown off with the scissors motion, folks with ptosis...etc

Gonio is not so bad to actually perform, its just knowing how to analyze the angle and structures..still working on that!

Youtube is my friend...

 

[DawgOD]

SCO has something called pre-clinic checkouts that you must "pass" before they let you see patients in clinic your 3rd year. I'm a 2nd year now, so haven't done it yet, but I believe you go through an entire examination and must do it within a certain amount of time.

is that what you are talking about?

 

[mjl]

i just started but im finding opthalmoscopy pretty difficult

If a moderator sees this, this guy i quoted is definately a bot or something. Hes made this same post with broken links on a bunch of forums and if u go into his profile and looks at his posts in there they are all links to some insurance sight or something lol

 

[20DOC20]

Gonio!

Even worse, I bought the hugest Gonioscopy lens out there ... thinking that "bigger is better." Well, my lab partner was Asian and I couldn't get his eye lids to open wide enough to insert the lens! On my checkout, I was PRAYING I'd get a Caucasian patient. I did.

Oh, and then this Gonio Giganticus also had extreme suction, even more so than smaller lenses. I got it stuck on another student's eyes ... a friend of mine ... and he went into a panic attack. It was kinda funny ... but not. He lept up out of his seat and said, "Get it off, get it off!!!" He was over 6 ft tall. Big guy. I grabbed him and ordered him to "SIT NOW!" I had to push through the lid and we heard a POP when suction released.

I so regret buying that huge lens.

Really ... buy a pediatric gonio lens and use it on adults.

Other than that ... prism neutralizing tropias with loose prisms was hard.

 

[physicslover]

Retinoscopy!

 

[Shnurek]

Haha naa I'd say waking up early to go to class lol. We start at 8:30am, so lame. Many people do have difficulty with ret and gonio though.

 

[syma]

Mine was embarrassingly direct ophthalmoscopy.

Since learning indirect, I haven't picked an ophthalmoscope up again, (unless I'm looking for a lens I dropped on the floor)

 

[200UL]

Phaco in the setting of a small pupil, trabeculectomy, and complex lid laceration repair.

Are gonioscopy and an indented retina exam really condiered "procedures?" Interesting nomenclature.

 

[Shnurek]

Phaco in the setting of a small pupil, trabeculectomy, and complex lid laceration repair.

Are gonioscopy and an indented retina exam really condiered "procedures?" Interesting nomenclature.

First of all the title of this thread is "skills' not procedures. Secondly, we are talking about OD schools NOT ophtho residencies. I will however do a trabeculectomy on a pig eye.

 

[syma]

Phaco in the setting of a small pupil, trabeculectomy, and complex lid laceration repair.

Are gonioscopy and an indented retina exam really condiered "procedures?" Interesting nomenclature.

Seriously?

 

[200UL]

The title of the thread does mention "skills," but multiple replies refer to gonio, indirect retinal exam.... as "procedures." I am not the one who referred to these examination techniques as procedures.

Regarding "procedures", in Kentucky, a law exhist which provides optometry a scope (real surgical procedures) beyond which 95% of ophthalmologists practice - therefore your training programs should provide some element of training in these procedures.

 

[Shnurek]

The title of the thread does mention "skills," but multiple replies refer to gonio, indirect retinal exam.... as "procedures." I am not the one who referred to these examination techniques as procedures.

Regarding "procedures", in Kentucky, a law exhist which provides optometry a scope (real surgical procedures) beyond which 95% of ophthalmologists practice - therefore your training programs should provide some element of training in these procedures.

We can't do any of the three procedures aka operations you named in any state so your input is irrelevant as this topic is about what is taught in optometry schools.

In any case, simple percussion and palpation for example are propaedeutic medical procedures. Anything leading to a diagnosis of a disease is a procedure.

Medical Procedure - "An activity directed at or performed on an individual with the object of improving health, treating disease or injury, or making a diagnosis."

Therefore, gonioscopy and BIO are simultaneously procedures and skills. Case closed?

 

[200UL]

With your definition of "procedure," walking into the room tomorrow to see my first patient will make for my first "procedure" of the day.

Primary care physicians percuss various body parts literally 500 times per day. Never do they classify these events as procedures. They are examination techniques.

Kentucky law says that any surgical procedure is in optometry's scope if a laser is involved.

 

[Shnurek]

With your definition of "procedure," walking into the room tomorrow to see my first patient will make for my first "procedure" of the day.

Not mine chief - International Dictionary of Medicine and Biology, Page 2297. ISBN 047101849x

You can buy it on Amazon for less than $6 to prove me wrong : http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/047101849X/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used