What is the most important factor in medical school admissions?

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Most Important Factor

  • GPA

    Votes: 107 27.9%

  • MCAT

    Votes: 186 48.6%

  • EC's: Volunteering, leadership, research, etc.

    Votes: 43 11.2%

  • Interviewing skills

    Votes: 47 12.3%
  • Total voters
    383
Chemdude

Chemdude

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Academics (GPA, MCAT), community service, research. There is no ONE most important factor.
 
There was a survey of people on adcoms - not sure if it was entire committees or admissions deans or what - done awhile back that claimed GPA was the most important factor. That's interesting because analyzing the data shows you that the MCAT is substantially more important than GPA. Where EC's actually figure into the equation is impossible to quantify since they're subjective.
 
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SparkleMotion said:
Academics (GPA, MCAT), community service, research. There is no ONE most important factor.
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I disagree. There has to be one more important than the others, even if the difference in importance is insignificant.
 
Personally I would say the MCAT is the single most important part, but only to a point. Many schools use the MCAT to screen, so it's very important to have at least a decent MCAT so that you can get the committee to give your application a closer look. Low GPA? Make up for it with your MCAT. ECs not the normal volunteering/shadowing? Make them look at what you do have with a strong MCAT scoree. However, once you get to a certain point (probably around 40), it probably doesn't make that much of a difference... The difference between a 40 and a 45 is really just luck.

I'm not saying you can get away with a 2.0 and no ECs with a 40 MCAT, But you could probably get away with a 3.0 and a small amount of clinical volunteering with it. A 4.0 won't make up for a 25 MCAT. VERY strong ECs could make up for poor academics, but the trouble is not getting screened out before they even look at your application in that case.
 
I think all are important at different points in the process. GPA and MCAT are significant when getting interviews. Unless you have something extraordinary about your application, not meeting an unspoken minimum GPA/MCAT combination will leave you dead in the water. Once you get to the interview, though, I don't these things matter very much if at all. It's all about what you can talk about and how you present yourself (where ECs and other experiences more than likely play a huge role).

I don't think you can pin it down to one thing.
 
harvman11 said:
Personally I would say the MCAT is the single most important part, but only to a point. Many schools use the MCAT to screen, so it's very important to have at least a decent MCAT so that you can get the committee to give your application a closer look. Low GPA? Make up for it with your MCAT. ECs not the normal volunteering/shadowing? Make them look at what you do have with a strong MCAT scoree. However, once you get to a certain point (probably around 40), it probably doesn't make that much of a difference... The difference between a 40 and a 45 is really just luck.

I'm not saying you can get away with a 2.0 and no ECs with a 40 MCAT, But you could probably get away with a 3.0 and a small amount of clinical volunteering with it. A 4.0 won't make up for a 25 MCAT. VERY strong ECs could make up for poor academics, but the trouble is not getting screened out before they even look at your application in that case.
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If this was facebook, I would "like" your comment....:thumbup:
 
well imo if you fall into a certain academic range, its the personal statement / interview which sets you apart from all the other smart kids who fall within that academic range.

thus- high stats are the standard, interpersonal communication skills is what they are gonna like or dislike
 
Its kind of silly to debate something like this. Everything is important. If you dedicate all of your time to one "important" aspect of your application, say your MCAT, at the expense of some other aspect (your GPA suffers, you dont do anything productive EC wise) then you will more than likely not get in. Do your best to rock every aspect of your application and you'll maximize your chances of getting accepted.
 
RySerr21 said:
Its kind of silly to debate something like this. Everything is important. If you dedicate all of your time to one "important" aspect of your application, say your MCAT, at the expense of some other aspect (your GPA suffers, you dont do anything productive EC wise) then you will not get in. Do your best to rock every aspect of your application and you'll maximize your chances of getting accepted.
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:thumbup:
 
probably MCAT. it's the one objective comparison between applicants.
 
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This depends on the school. It also depends where you are in the application stage. Some schools say that when you get an interview, numbers become less important. That's why people advise applicants to apply broadly. Every school is different.
 
I voted for MCAT as the most important.... it is incredibly important

but now that I think about it... i would have voted for GPA... I have seen cases of students in which a student with a stellar GPA and mediocre MCAT gets accepted, but an student with a stellar MCAT and mediocre GPA does not get accepted
 
Chemdude said:
I disagree. There has to be one more important than the others, even if the difference in importance is insignificant.
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Yes, for the sake of a survey I'm sure one is relatively more important than another, but it's wholly irrelevant in any practical sense. At least in this context.
 
nonsciencemajor said:
I voted for MCAT as the most important.... it is incredibly important

but now that I think about it... i would have voted for GPA... I have seen cases of students in which a student with a stellar GPA and mediocre MCAT gets accepted, but an student with a stellar MCAT and mediocre GPA does not get accepted
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Yes, and there has never been a case in which a student with a stellar GPA and mediocre MCAT gets rejected (sarcasm). You are going to have people from all spectrums get accepted and rejected (high mcat/low gpa, low mcat/high gpa, high mcat/high gpa).
 
RySerr21 said:
Yes, and there has never been a case in which a student with a stellar GPA and mediocre MCAT gets rejected (sarcasm). You are going to have people from all spectrums get accepted and rejected (high mcat/low gpa, low mcat/high gpa, high mcat/high gpa).
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what about low mcat/low gpa... there are some :D
 
It's GPA guys. -_- why did so many people choose MCAT (I mean, it's close, but GPA is clearly the most important factor). Really makes me doubt the validity of everything I hear on SDN.

http://www.aamc.org/members/gsa/meetings/holisticreview.pdf

pg 10: cGPA > sGPA > MCAT > rest

(They sent the survey to every medical school in the country and had a 90% response rate)
 
MCAT, the great Equalizer...
 
randombetch said:
It's GPA guys. -_- why did so many people choose MCAT (I mean, it's close, but GPA is clearly the most important factor). Really makes me doubt the validity of everything I hear on SDN.

http://www.aamc.org/members/gsa/meetings/holisticreview.pdf

pg 10: cGPA > sGPA > MCAT > rest

(They sent the survey to every medical school in the country and had a 90% response rate)
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That was the survey I was referring to. Again, if you crunch the statistics, MCAT score pretty well blows away GPA in terms of importance. Those surveyed may say GPA is the most important to them, but overall, that isn't how they choose.
 
randombetch said:
It's GPA guys. -_- why did so many people choose MCAT (I mean, it's close, but GPA is clearly the most important factor). Really makes me doubt the validity of everything I hear on SDN.

http://www.aamc.org/members/gsa/meetings/holisticreview.pdf

pg 10: cGPA > sGPA > MCAT > rest

(They sent the survey to every medical school in the country and had a 90% response rate)
Click to expand...

yes, but they list those as the most important factors in getting an interview.

Interview recommendation, LORs, GPA, and clinical volunteering are most important in landing an acceptance. Thanks for the link though, was looking for that pdf but couldn't find it.
 
There are many applicants with LizzyM scores (gpa(10) + MCAT) of >78 who do not get an offer of admission because they were too weird in person. Numbers will get you an interview but a weird personality, or the lack of adequate clinical exposure, or a bad reason for wanting a career in medicine or a really bad LOR will kill your chances of admission.
 
LizzyM said:
There are many applicants with LizzyM scores (gpa(10) + MCAT) of >78 who do not get an offer of admission because they were too weird in person. Numbers will get you an interview but a weird personality, or the lack of adequate clinical exposure, or a bad reason for wanting a career in medicine or a really bad LOR will kill your chances of admission.
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It really just seems as though MCAT/GPA/COMSERV are what gets your foot in the door, but the interviewing process is what opens those doors for you.
 
LizzyM said:
There are many applicants with LizzyM scores (gpa(10) + MCAT) of >78 who do not get an offer of admission because they were too weird in person. Numbers will get you an interview but a weird personality, or the lack of adequate clinical exposure, or a bad reason for wanting a career in medicine or a really bad LOR will kill your chances of admission.
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Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by a weird personality? I can't imagine that in the short span of several interviews someone can actually come across as that bad of an applicant. So I always assumed that having a good interview meant having to really stun the interviewers by showing that you are (or at least can/will be in the future) capable of behaving as a physician should behave.

But I agree that all of those factors are necessary at different stages in the process...although it is possible to let one (or maybe even two) of those categories slide, if you have sufficient excess in another category. Of course, mainly this involves past experiences lending a slightly brighter light toward a poor GPA or MCAT score.
 
I wonder how many people who picked "MCAT" have poor GPA's?

And visa versa. Clearly GPA is the most important.
 
From my experience and knowing hundred of med students:

MCAT =science GPA > overall GPA > interview=EC> lor's;

If you have a 4.0 science GPA from a top 30 school, well your science GPA surely will give you an edge. However, your MCAT should be around 30 at least. If you have 40+ MCAT... I guess I don't have to explain that :p
 
Elpenor said:
I wonder how many people who picked "MCAT" have poor GPA's?

And visa versa. Clearly GPA is the most important.
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I don't buy it. While it factors in heavily, the MCAT is an objective comparison. The fact that we all go to different schools puts so much variability into our GPAs. So I think GPA is more of a cut-off sort of thing - there is a minimum that you have to meet and can't push you much beyond a certain threshold. In a way, GPA can only hurt you.

The MCAT, on the other hand, can make or break you.

For example, someone with a 35 and a 3.7 is probably going farther than a 32 and 4.0 (but those LizzyM scores are the same).
 
Why is there still a debate over this?

This study by the AAMC: http://www.aamc.org/members/gsa/meetings/holisticreview.pdf surveyed adcoms from 120 different medical schools; they listed the factors (from greatest to least importance) in sending an interview invite or acceptance.

The things that land you an interview are not the same things that get you an acceptance.

As LizzyM said, numbers can get you an interview, but after that non-quantitative aspects of your app have much more weight.


btw, the info is on pg. 10 & 11
 
rockaction said:
I don't buy it. While it factors in heavily, the MCAT is an objective comparison. The fact that we all go to different schools puts so much variability into our GPAs. So I think GPA is more of a cut-off sort of thing - there is a minimum that you have to meet and can't push you much beyond a certain threshold. In a way, GPA can only hurt you.

The MCAT, on the other hand, can make or break you.

For example, someone with a 35 and a 3.7 is probably going farther than a 32 and 4.0 (but those LizzyM scores are the same).
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Not according to
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table25-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt-raceeth.htm

People in the 3.8-4.0 GPA category have identical acceptance rates (91%) in the 27-29 MCAT and 30-32 MCAT brackets.

In other words somebody with a 3.9 and a 28 MCAT is essentially equal to somebody with a 3.9 and a 31 MCAT.

Also, the example you gave had a very slight (~1%) variance in acceptance rate... not too significant IMO.


And look at the 3.2-3.4 GPA bracket. The highest acceptance is 82.9% with a 30-32 MCAT... decreasing as the MCAT increases.. and eventually stopping at 66% acceptance for 39-45 MCAT
 
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Elpenor said:
Not according to
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table25-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt-raceeth.htm

People in the 3.8-4.0 GPA category have identical acceptance rates (91%) in the 27-29 MCAT and 30-32 MCAT brackets.

In other words somebody with a 3.9 and a 28 MCAT is essentially equal to somebody with a 3.9 and a 31 MCAT.

Also, the example you gave had a very slight (~1%) variance in acceptance rate... not too significant IMO.
Click to expand...


That graph is representative of those who do not self identify as "white".
 
Elpenor said:
then observe this chart

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table25-w-mcatgpagridwhite.pdf

The 3.8-4.0 GPA with a 32 MCAT have 87.5% acceptance..

The 3.6-3.79 GPA with a 35 MCAT have 85.3% acceptance....
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The first one you posted showed acceptance rates for URMs. The second one only showed the rates for self-identified "whites".

This chart http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm includes all applicants and acceptees.

However, what you are trying to say is true, once you get above a 32, the weight of your MCAT score is heavily subject to diminishing returns.
 
I gotta cast my vote for interviewing skilz. Of course you can't get to the interview without the GPA & MCAT, but its the interview that nails down the acceptances (at least in my experience and mind). You connect with an interviewer and show them who you are and your in because you have already passed the test of the numbers (GPA, MCAT). I guess you would have to split it in two parts, pre and post interview invitation.

In reality there is no one most important part, just be who you are and do your best in all areas and you'll be fine.
 
Algophiliac said:
Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by a weird personality? I can't imagine that in the short span of several interviews someone can actually come across as that bad of an applicant.
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1. Cocky, condescending, superior to the interviewer, rude to office staff. Puts his feet on the interviewer's desk. (Yes, this really happened. :eek:) Comes across withthe attitude that he is doing the medical school a big favor by being there.

2. Disengaged, no eye contact, very short answers to questions. Slumps in the chair or sits with elbow on the table and chin in hand looking down.

3. Nervous to the point of distraction and far beyond the usual interview nerves. Shifty eyes, fidgiting in the seat. Asks the interviewer, "What are you writing about me?" Acts like the interviewer might be an axe murderer.

4. Aggressive, sits forward in the seat, talks too loudly, bullies the interviewer with questions, chuckles in a menasing way to the interviewer's responses, acts like he might be an axe murderer.
 
LizzyM said:
1. Cocky, condescending, superior to the interviewer, rude to office staff. Puts his feet on the interviewer's desk. (Yes, this really happened. :eek:) Comes across withthe attitude that he is doing the medical school a big favor by being there.

2. Disengaged, no eye contact, very short answers to questions. Slumps in the chair or sits with elbow on the table and chin in hand looking down.

3. Nervous to the point of distraction and far beyond the usual interview nerves. Shifty eyes, fidgiting in the seat. Asks the interviewer, "What are you writing about me?" Acts like the interviewer might be an axe murderer.

4. Aggressive, sits forward in the seat, talks too loudly, bullies the interviewer with questions, chuckles in a menasing way to the interviewer's responses, acts like he might be an axe murderer.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if this interviewee already had an acceptance to a school higher up on his/her list and was trying to have some cynical (and rude) fun. I once overheard some of my fellow interviewees discussing such ideas.
 
ishchayill said:
I'm wondering if this interviewee already had an acceptance to a school higher up on his/her list and was trying to have some cynical (and rude) fun. I once overheard some of my fellow interviewees discussing such ideas.
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Why go to an interview if you have no intention of matriculating? It wastes your time and that of the interviewer. Going to screw around, just for giggles, shows a lack of maturity and frankly, in such a case a "reject" letter is fully deserved.
 
I'm gunna throw my opinion out there. You need a "good" GPA and MCAT, but that is not terribly important beyond that. Look at almost every school around the country and there is a pretty wide range of GPA's and MCAT's of students accepted to that school (maybe not WashU), so you can't say that is the most important factor. After seeing that you have made it past some pre-determined threshold, schools know you are competent enough to handle medical school. Next they will look at your EC's to learn more about you as a person. If you slack off in this category you probably won't get an interview, unless you are one of the freaks (;)) with like a 38 or 39+ on the MCAT (which isn't most of us, so we can toss out those at the extreme high end of the spectrum). Now once you get to the interview, your interviewing skills are somewhat important, but even the most skilled interviewee will fail if they have nothing to talk about (which will happen if you have mediocre EC's). Thus your EC's will come back to benefit you greatly again. Even if you are nervous/shy/bad at interviewing/whatever, if all you have to do is talk about the great EC's you have done, you should be able to handle that just fine. Also, I should point out that only at ONE of my interviews was my numbers mentioned, and all I said was that neither of those things will make me a good doctor and I realize that. Otherwise, schools didn't seem to care. I can't imagine those with extremely good stats making an entire interview out of talking about their great MCAT and GPA, so even they have to talk about EC's. Now when the adcom is going to make their decision, I imagine they are considering who will make the best doctor, and since EC's show them who you are as a person and help you come across personably in the interiew, they are the most important thing.
 
LizzyM said:
Why go to an interview if you have no intention of matriculating? It wastes your time and that of the interviewer. Going to screw around, just for giggles, shows a lack of maturity and frankly, in such a case a "reject" letter is fully deserved.
Click to expand...

I think it should be grounds for the withdrawal of the acceptance(s) at the other school(s). Not sure if this could actually happen, though.
 
Elpenor said:
And look at the 3.2-3.4 GPA bracket. The highest acceptance is 82.9% with a 30-32 MCAT... decreasing as the MCAT increases.. and eventually stopping at 66% acceptance for 39-45 MCAT
Click to expand...

For the 3.2 to 3.4 GPA bracket, the acceptance rate goes DOWN as the MCAT score goes higher? Weird.
 
GPA
MCAT
Extracurriculars
Personal Statement and Essays
Interview performance
 
futureboy said:
For the 3.2 to 3.4 GPA bracket, the acceptance rate goes DOWN as the MCAT score goes higher? Weird.
Click to expand...

It probably has something to do with the actual number of students included in the bracket. Percentages can be misleading.
 
for the top-20 US NEWs Ranked..the MCAT is by far the most important factor in getting interviewed...but once you've broken their threshold for MCAT/GPA then your experiences (research, community service, clinical experience, etc) play a HUGE role in your acceptances..

US News uses different factors in determining the rankings and they weigh MCAT much more heavily than GPA..the final raw score consists of .13% MCAT scores and .06% GPA..


so schools that are US News-******:

MCAT >>>>> GPA
 
ishchayill said:
MCAT, the great Equalizer...
Click to expand...
Truth.

SAT:College :: MCAT:Med School

It's the only standardized tool they have to measure an applicant by -GPA is right on its heels, if not tied w/ the MCAT, IMO.
 
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