What is the percentage of a podiatrist being accepted to an orthopedic F/A Job?

Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
Hi guys

I am starting pod school next semester and i was wondering if you guys know or heard from anyone if orthopedics F/A hire podiatrist WITH THE SAME PRICE THEY LIST ONLINE, which is from 600k-800k. Since we will have a 3 year mandatory residency starting from next year, wouldn't that allow them to recognize our skills and our ability to perform most if not all of the surgeries they perform?

I think you probably would need to be the top 1% of your class to get into the top surgical residencies where you can make connections there ? Is that correct?
 
Sep 17, 2013
62
4
Status
I agree you need to be towards the top typically for a good residency. I don't think that necessarily translates into an ortho position after residency. I'd say very very few will be hired on at that salary. I think getting a position like that is luck of the draw. I would think most will go after fellowship trained docs above all else.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
These docs would probably have RRA surgery during residency. Fellowship is a big part, but is it really possible to get hired with that number? Does anyone know any?
 

dtrack22

10+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2008
2,060
1,210
Status
Podiatrist
wouldn't that allow them to recognize our skills and our ability to perform most if not all of the surgeries they perform?
Problem is you can't take general ortho call and you can't cover/see anyone else's patients but your own (unless there is another foot and ankle ortho or dpm in the group). A DPM could be very profitable for an ortho practice, but $600-800k for a first year podiatrist is outrageous...I almost felt like PADPM there

I think you probably would need to be the top 1% of your class to get into the top surgical residencies where you can make connections there ? Is that correct?
I know a VA grad who got an ortho job after graduating this June. So no, you don't have to be top 1% (which would be half a person at DMU) or necessarily get a "top residency". It's probably more about how you market yourself, how flexible you are in where you're willing to practice, etc. You have to remember that nobody outside of Podiatry and half of the practicing Podiatrists know literally nothing about our residency programs. The benefit that you'd get from a residency program with a larger surgical volume is that your case log would be more impressive. But that applies to any type of job/practice you are looking to apply to.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
Podiatrist getting hired by an ortho group is very common nowadays. But do they get the same salary?
 

ldsrmdude

Back in the saddle again
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2007
1,923
856
Status
Podiatrist
Podiatrist getting hired by an ortho group is very common nowadays. But do they get the same salary?
The same salary as what they offer orthopods? I would say that would be rare from my admittedly small amount of experience. As dtrack mentioned, podiatrists can't take general ortho call. Plus, why would an ortho group pay a podiatrist that much when an equally well trained podiatrist would only demand 150k (for example). In addition, the 600-800k numbers seem very high for a starting salary for an orthopod.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
So based on experience,what's the highest salary an ortho can hire a podiatrist for?
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
So is this the Maximum range a podiatrist can earn right after residency? I looked over some residencies and there are some, very limited, that offer pods spots that receive the same training as ortho fellowship. One of them was Interfaith Medical Center Residency. I know that getting into an AO/ASIF Fellowship is hard, but you must be able to receive higher offers that that, right?
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
Nobody on this forum knows enough podiatrists, who have been hired by ortho groups, to give you an exact number.

With that being said I think 150-200k right off the bat is a pretty legitimate offer one might see from an ortho group. They will not pay you as an equal. If they would then why not hire a F/A trained ortho instead?
 

heybrother

7+ Year Member
Oct 17, 2011
728
526
Status
Podiatrist
Salaries are highly regional. Hiring is deeply personal. I can't imagine very many people shadowed a podiatrist who was actually a member of an ortho group, but don't let that stop you from making some sacrifices before the ortho pedestal. You'll have ample time in hospitals interacting with them to decide if that's really what you want to chase and to find out what they actually are and do. The original numbers posted would be something like ~90th percentile for orthos according to the medscape survey.
 

ldsrmdude

Back in the saddle again
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2007
1,923
856
Status
Podiatrist
So is this the Maximum range a podiatrist can earn right after residency? I looked over some residencies and there are some, very limited, that offer pods spots that receive the same training as ortho fellowship. One of them was Interfaith Medical Center Residency. I know that getting into an AO/ASIF Fellowship is hard, but you must be able to receive higher offers that that, right?
I guess I'm not sure what you mean when you say that there are some "very limited" programs that offer the same training as an ortho fellowship. I would guess most busy residencies offer the same or more more cases during the 3 year residency than the 1 year F&A fellowship offers, but I'm not sure it's really fair to compare the two that way. I don't think podiatrists can do AO fellowships anymore since the affiliation with AO is no longer what it was. And I don't think that the month long AO fellowship really made that much of a difference in terms of your salary potential either.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
Wouldn't a mandatory 3 year podiatric residency make us "more noticed" as professionals and be more recognized by ortho groups which will lead to a greater salary then 150-200k which i heard of 2 years ago?
 

ldsrmdude

Back in the saddle again
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2007
1,923
856
Status
Podiatrist
Wouldn't a mandatory 3 year podiatric residency make us "more noticed" as professionals and be more recognized by ortho groups which will lead to a greater salary then 150-200k which i heard of 2 years ago?
Not really. 2 years ago the vast majority of programs were already 3 year programs.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
I'm not trying to belittle you but you obviously have no idea what your talking about. There about, give or take, 14000 podiatrists currently practicing nationwide. Some had no surgical training, some did 1 year programs, others did 2 years, and within the last 10 or so years the majority of graduates have obtained three years of training. The three year model is still relatively new. Podiatry as a whole is a microcosm in the medical field when compared to other specialties. Get "noticed" for 3 years of training? Hell no. Some medical professionals don't even have a firm grasp of what our training entails since so many current practicing podiatrist have very different training backgrounds (as mentioned above). Even the general public doesn't have a clue. Commanding 300-400k out of residency like any other ortho? No.
So what do you expect to make out of residency? After 7 years of hard work you are going to be satisfied with a 200k offer and orthopods who perform around 95% of the same F/A surgery you do, will receive at least double that amount. They might be on call, and we are not but that should not be the reason their salaries are AT LEAST twice as ours.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
Not really. 2 years ago the vast majority of programs were already 3 year programs.
But they were not Mandatory. They had options and most chose the 1-2 year to finish early and as a result did not have enough training which belittled our profession in the eyes of many docs.
 

ldsrmdude

Back in the saddle again
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2007
1,923
856
Status
Podiatrist
But they were not Mandatory. They had options and most chose the 1-2 year to finish early and as a result did not have enough training which belittled our profession in the eyes of many docs.
You must not be talking about 2 years ago like you initially brought up because there haven't been 1 year residencies for many years.
So what do you expect to make out of residency? After 7 years of hard work you are going to be satisfied with a 200k offer and orthopods who perform around 95% of the same F/A surgery you do, will receive at least double that amount. They might be on call, and we are not but that should not be the reason their salaries are AT LEAST twice as ours.
From what I have seen, most grads coming out that aren't very restricted in terms of geography probably end up somewhere in the 150k range after bonuses. That's just my limited experience from seeing some of my senior residents graduate and keeping my eyes and ears open.
 
  • Like
Reactions: newfeet

dtrack22

10+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2008
2,060
1,210
Status
Podiatrist
But they were not Mandatory. They had options and most chose the 1-2 year to finish early and as a result did not have enough training which belittled our profession in the eyes of many docs.
Nope

This thread started out innocent enough, seemed like a legitimate question, but it's quickly going down the caddypod wormhole...
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
Who the hell says I want to work for an orthopedic group?

I might want to take a salaried hospital gig which starts me off at north of 200k, doesn't put pressure on me to build my practice, and possibly have do a week of call every month. An ortho practice can't give me that lifestyle right out of residency. Remember though, those kinds of jobs start you off high but your salary will be capped at a not much higher salary. Something to consider.

Or maybe I want to work for Scholl College one day and whip into shape the snotty know it all pre-pods that enter podiatry school every new academic year. I will be salaried, prob work at the Scholl Clinic, have the resources to do research, and maybe even become an attending at one of the neighboring Chicago residency programs or even start a new one myself in North Chicago.

Fact of the matter is I have no idea what I'm going to do and I'm certainly not worried about the money. You have zero life experience in medicine, you have never worked with orthopedic residents and attendings...quite frankly, you are talking out of your ass but you trying to convince both the 4th year students on here and the resident monitor that you know how the politics of lower extremity medicine work. You really have bigger fish to fry right now...like getting a good GPA in the first place so you can land a good residency. That should be your main concern.

All this money talk sounds like you are just trying to convince yourself that applying to podiatry was the right choice. Don't chase dollar signs, there is no more money in medicine and going to school to become a podiatrist really doesn't impress too many women (I've tried). You really got to love this "foot thing" to make it through school and residency. Focus on those two things first.
Okay so based on your experience, what is a high gpa that will lead to a good clerkship that will lead to a top residency?
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
But working for a hospital will not allow you to become anything more than an employer. At least with an ortho group, you will become knowledgeable of managing a business and might give you the opportunity to become a partner in the future.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
You must not be talking about 2 years ago like you initially brought up because there haven't been 1 year residencies for many years.

From what I have seen, most grads coming out that aren't very restricted in terms of geography probably end up somewhere in the 150k range after bonuses. That's just my limited experience from seeing some of my senior residents graduate and keeping my eyes and ears open.
150K after bonuses! Wouldn't nursing homes podiatrist make more than that. Does he work in an ortho group? How much are you expecting to make out of residency?
 
Aug 12, 2013
27
2
Status
Podiatry Student
150K after bonuses! Wouldn't nursing homes podiatrist make more than that. Does he work in an ortho group? How much are you expecting to make out of residency?
I would suggest taking a look at insurance reimbursement rates (especially Medicare and Medicaid) and the concept of global periods.
 

ldsrmdude

Back in the saddle again
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2007
1,923
856
Status
Podiatrist
150K after bonuses! Wouldn't nursing homes podiatrist make more than that. Does he work in an ortho group? How much are you expecting to make out of residency?
Yes, a podiatrist doing nursing home work could potentially make more than 150k. But you're comparing apples and oranges.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
A fellowship will give you more training but will it also affect ur income for future jobs?
 

ldsrmdude

Back in the saddle again
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2007
1,923
856
Status
Podiatrist
Potentially, but I wouldn't do a fellowship for that reason. I mean, more training is almost always a good thing, but that won't always equate to more money. Money is just one factor that defines a job, and probably not the most important one.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
So what do you expect to earn right after residency? And in what environment you want to work at,? An ortho group? Pod group? Hospital? Nursing homes?
 

ldsrmdude

Back in the saddle again
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2007
1,923
856
Status
Podiatrist
Personally, I'm not sure where I will end up. I wouldn't mind working with an ortho group, pod group, hospital, multispecialty group. I've considered applying for fellowships as well.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
Same here, but is nursing home an option? What is the expected range for a student out of residency based on your experience?
 

ldsrmdude

Back in the saddle again
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2007
1,923
856
Status
Podiatrist
Working just at nursing homes wouldn't be one of my top choices (notice it wasn't on my list from my last post), but there are quite a few who do part-time nursing home work and some who do full-time nursing home work. If you look at some of the online job ads (APMA News for example) and there are several listings for nursing home jobs. I don't mind chip and clip but don't want to make it the major portion of my practice.

A range of what I have heard of starting grads being offered their first year out? A wide range, probably 50k-250k.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
Working for an ortho group would give the highest salary,right? Do you know if an ortho group allow a pod as a partner later on in practice? Plus you would lean more about business management compared to being an employer at a hospital,correct?
 

ldsrmdude

Back in the saddle again
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2007
1,923
856
Status
Podiatrist
Working for an ortho group would give the highest salary,right?
Not necessarily.
Do you know if an ortho group allow a pod as a partner later on in practice?
Yes, depending on the situation. There is a podiatrist who occasionally comes on here who is (on track to becoming?) a partner in an ortho group.
Plus you would lean more about business management compared to being an employer at a hospital,correct?
It depends on how involved you are in the business side of things. Some doctors just want to practice and don't care too much about the management side, some are really interested in the business aspect of medicine. And I assume you mean employee not employer.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
Yes I meant employee, I was typing and driving at same time, sorry. So what is your top priority? Who would you want to work for?
 

ldsrmdude

Back in the saddle again
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2007
1,923
856
Status
Podiatrist
Yes I meant employee, I was typing and driving at same time, sorry. So what is your top priority? Who would you want to work for?
Do us all a favor and don't try to type and drive at the same time next time. The thread will still be there when you get home.

Back to the question, I don't know how things will end up. I see advantages and disadvantages to all of the above mentioned practice types.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
Do us all a favor and don't try to type and drive at the same time next time. The thread will still be there when you get home.

Back to the question, I don't know how things will end up. I see advantages and disadvantages to all of the above mentioned practice types.
But if you had all of these offers, which one would you choose?
 
Last edited:

Gigantron

Robot
5+ Year Member
Sep 4, 2009
1,100
83
Philadelphia, PA
Status
Podiatry Student
What if a podiatrist decided to do a four year residency + a 1 year fellowship in foot and ankle surgery? Would ortho groups be more inclined to hire you then since you've had 5 years of surgical training at that point?
 

TheWeeIceMan

And like that... *poof*... he's gone.
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 8, 2009
3,500
2,372
Wouldn't a mandatory 3 year podiatric residency make us "more noticed" as professionals and be more recognized by ortho groups which will lead to a greater salary then 150-200k which i heard of 2 years ago?
Sorry bro, but I think you may be delusional. If you want to make orthopedic surgery money, you'll have to go to medical school and train in orthopedic surgery. 600-800k for a newly minted orthopedic surgeon is ludicrously high, btw.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
Sorry bro, but I think you may be delusional. If you want to make orthopedic surgery money, you'll have to go to medical school and train in orthopedic surgery. 600-800k for a newly minted orthopedic surgeon is ludicrously high, btw.
So how much are you expecting to make?
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
The reason i think 600-800k is possible because we know that PADPM makes around 350-400k, so making 600k is not a miracle.
 
Last edited:
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
I think pre-pods and P1s fail to appreciate how poorly the profession is publicized. The schools (admissions office) may convince you that podiatry is just as commonplace as any other medical specialty, but in reality it is not. A lot of the public and even other medical specialties are confused with our training. This is partly because there are so many currently practicing podiatrists who either have no surgery training, 1year, 2year, or 3 years of residency training. Orthos recognize other orthos because their training is relatively uniform and similar. An ortho really has no idea what you (podiatrist) do or don't know in the OR unless they directly work with other podiatrists. Touting a 3 year surgical residency, with a 1 year fellowship on top of that, to another ortho, who doesn't work with pods, will not really impress them. Sorry.

I've been told doing a surgical residency where you work with a F/A ortho and obtaining a quality LOR from them will go a lot further for you.
SO in the next 5-10 years, podiatry will be recognized by medical specialty since we now have a mandatory 3 year residency which is considered organized and uniform, correct?
 

TheWeeIceMan

And like that... *poof*... he's gone.
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 8, 2009
3,500
2,372
Podiatry is considered medicine too. As a podiatrist, you are considered a medical student. Besides, what would you like to specialize in?
Yes, I wasn't clear, which is why I immediately made the edit to say allo. Either way, you get my point. You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder about being just as good as an orthopedic surgeon and thinking you deserve the same salary. Personally, I think you need to adjust your expectations drastically.
 

Gigantron

Robot
5+ Year Member
Sep 4, 2009
1,100
83
Philadelphia, PA
Status
Podiatry Student
I think pre-pods and P1s fail to appreciate how poorly the profession is publicized. The schools (admissions office) may convince you that podiatry is just as commonplace as any other medical specialty, but in reality it is not. A lot of the public and even other medical specialties are confused with our training. This is partly because there are so many currently practicing podiatrists who either have no surgery training, 1year, 2year, or 3 years of residency training. Orthos recognize other orthos because their training is relatively uniform and similar. An ortho really has no idea what you (podiatrist) do or don't know in the OR unless they directly work with other podiatrists. Touting a 3 year surgical residency, with a 1 year fellowship on top of that, to another ortho, who doesn't work with pods, will not really impress them. Sorry.

I've been told doing a surgical residency where you work with a F/A ortho and obtaining a quality LOR from them will go a lot further for you.
You say that the field is poorly publicized. Well, shouldn't that mean the newer generation of podiatrists should change that, then?

I didn't ask my previous question because I seemingly have intentions to try and impress orthos with my supposedly "equal" training experience. That's not the case at all. I'm very aware that the training is not equal, and I'm not really concerned if they actually think I'll be a "real" doctor or not, and neither should you. My being aware of the scope of podiatry and what we do for a living is good enough for me, and I'll be happy to explain and dismiss any misconceptions that my future colleagues have about the field (if they have them, of course), while at the same time making an effort and doing my part to help publicize the field itself. Maybe then, all of the bolded won't be as much of a problem, eh?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: kimoooooo
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
I don't care what orthos think. I'm relating my experiences working with them while being on rotations. Experience you don't have. Take what I say with a grain of salt. Want to bang the podiatry drum until the cows come home? Be my guest. I've been doing my part, specifically through my research endeavors.
I'm trying to learn from you but at the same time it looks like your "facts" are based on your experience that is connected to your residency training which, as you are aware, are not the same. Can you please list surgeries done in the F/A an ortho performs and a podiatrist can't?
 
Sep 17, 2013
62
4
Status
The way medicine is heading, nobody will be making 600k a year. If your trying to get rich, podiatry is not the route you want to go, nor any field of medicine IMO. Most who practice in any field of medicine today will probably agree with me there. Kimooo I think it's a solid profession but you do need to evaluate what your trying to get out of the career path. If it's simply money or parity it's not the field for you IMO.
 
OP
K
Sep 18, 2013
107
3
Status
Pre-Medical
The way medicine is heading, nobody will be making 600k a year. If your trying to get rich, podiatry is not the route you want to go, nor any field of medicine IMO. Most who practice in any field of medicine today will probably agree with me there. Kimooo I think it's a solid profession but you do need to evaluate what your trying to get out of the career path. If it's simply money or parity it's not the field for you IMO.
Money was not my concern when i chose podiatry. However, when i start looking into ortho salaries and realize that they do the same procedures as we do and receive at least 2x the amount , its when i began asking about the salary and the reason there is such a big difference.
 

MarquetteGuy

10+ Year Member
Jan 7, 2006
87
11
Status
Attending Physician
Not necessarily.

Yes, depending on the situation. There is a podiatrist who occasionally comes on here who is (on track to becoming?) a partner in an ortho group.

It depends on how involved you are in the business side of things. Some doctors just want to practice and don't care too much about the management side, some are really interested in the business aspect of medicine. And I assume you mean employee not employer.
I just graduated from residency this year, joined an orthopaedic group, and will be made a full partner next year.
 
Sep 17, 2013
62
4
Status
Call is huge. But I disagree with the previous statement that a pod won't make an Ortho group money. I know a few pods In Ortho groups and they are among the highest providers in the group, even without taking call. It really depends on how you practice assuming you have the training. It largely depends on the production of everyone else as well. If you do the most surgery out of anyone in the group, you may make more money for the group than the rest. A busy surgery load where the pathology presents is what takes. When it boils down to it, who cares you can't let the whole parity thing get to you. I'd focus on learning as much as you can and getting a solid residency, not how much salary you can possibly earn 8 years from now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kimoooooo