Did you graduate from a top residency program? Is this opportunity in the East? I know this is a stupid question but im just going to ask it because i'm curious. What were they most interested in about you regarding your training that distinguished you from your peers? I'm asking this question because i also want to follow your lead and need to know what do they groups really focus on. Thanks a lot!!
What is the percentage of a podiatrist being accepted to an orthopedic F/A Job?
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Did you graduate from a top residency program? Is this opportunity in the East? I know this is a stupid question but im just going to ask it because i'm curious. What were they most interested in about you regarding your training that distinguished you from your peers? I'm asking this question because i also want to follow your lead and need to know what do they groups really focus on. Thanks a lot!!
THANK YOU!!! I KNEW THAT THEY CAN MAKE THAT MUCH.
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I tend to think that a "top tier" residency program is all relative to what you're looking to get out of your training. I was looking for the highest surgical volume I could find, more specifically in rearfoot/ankle reconstruction. So yes, because of that reason, it was a "top tier" residency program, in my opinion. No, this opportunity was not in the East. Likely, my surgical volume/numbers, and the amount of training I did with a foot and ankle ortho made a difference.
I'm going to NYCPM and i thought you went there judging from your previous posts. I'm also astonished that you performed a large amount of surgical volume without a fellowship. Where can i find such programs?
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I just want to say that I am literally in awe that some of you replied to this thread as long as you did.
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This. It had all the makings of a great troll thread.
You were never useful on this threat anyway. You are not obligated to be even here, so I'm not interested in your feedback.
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You probably would have a better chance at being successful with a little more tact...
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Oh gheez... Watch out NYCPM.
Watch me become among the top 1% in the class. Going into an orthopedic residency and working in an orthopedic group and then becoming a partner after 2 years. This is my plan.
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And we all hope it pans out for you. However, enter this endeavor with some semblance of humility, and you'll be far more likely to succeed. That being said, it sounds like you'd be better off doing orthopedic surgery as opposed to podiatry while all the while wondering why your orthopod brethren are making twice the salary out of the gate.
My priority is doing orthopedic surgery through the podiatry route and not MD/do.
Problem with becoming an orthopedic:
1) getting an orthopedic residency and then a foot and ankle fellowship is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. You have to be among the top 1% of your class in addition to your USMILE TESTS scores.
2) taking general calls means that you never have a life of your own. You can be in the middle of your son's birthday party and all the sudden, you get a call which requires you to leave.
3) Number of years spend in residency is about 5-6 years as opposed to 3 which is a big difference.
Problem with becoming an orthopedic:
1) getting an orthopedic residency and then a foot and ankle fellowship is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. You have to be among the top 1% of your class in addition to your USMILE TESTS scores.
2) taking general calls means that you never have a life of your own. You can be in the middle of your son's birthday party and all the sudden, you get a call which requires you to leave.
3) Number of years spend in residency is about 5-6 years as opposed to 3 which is a big difference.
And we all hope it pans out for you. However, enter this endeavor with some semblance of humility, and you'll be far more likely to succeed. That being said, it sounds like you'd be better off doing orthopedic surgery as opposed to podiatry while all the while wondering why your orthopod brethren are making twice the salary out of the gate.
actually the Kaiser Hospital where I visited the podiatrist, said that they take calls as well. BUT it is not to the level that orthos have it. another reason why orthos make more than podiatrists if you think about it, more money means more responsibility.
the podiatrist I visited at Kaiser said podiatrists within 3-5 years of work, have 4 day schedules with a pretty good salary. I will gladly take that than being a brain surgeon working 80 hr/wk, even if it means I can't get a BMW.
Responsibility is a Big factor behind the reason of not choosing orthopedics over podiatry. Also, I know that podiatrist get calls but is nothing compared to that of ortho's. But what sub speciality are you interested in?
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When you start looking for your first ortho job, can you take a tape recorder with you when you ask them for that 600k salary? Just make sure the quality is good so I can hear the laughter.
First of all, I know that a pod base is extremely rare to be in the 600k range. However, a pod can make that much once he/she becomes a partner. It can also be made based on your base salary and bonuses, percentages, incentives,etc. I have read a lot of threads here and I know some pod who claim to make 400k in their 3rd year and their not a partner yet. So I see no reason why 600k range for a podiatrist cannot be made. I never said I wanted to make 600k in my first year after residency, but it is something i said That can be aimed at.
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Sure. There are pods that make 600k a year. Some who work in ortho groups and some who don't. It's rare, but it exists. None of them, though, are in their first year of practice.
kimoooooo said:
You can "aim" for anything. Why stop at 600k? I'd shoot for the moon. $2 mill, 1st year out. As the top 1% at NYCPM there is no reason that couldn't be acheived.
What you did say was that orthopedic surgeons are making a $600-800k base salary in their first associate job out of fellowship. That was your initial claim and what everyone else has been responding to. For some reason you have yet to pick up on that and continue to bring up irrelevant points...or change your argument all together.
An allo came on here and told you that your figures were ridiculous. He didn't say orthos don't make that much. He didn't say pods can't make that much. In fact, everyone else on this thread has been responding to the exact same claim that you made in your original post; that $600k is a reasonable salary for anyone just removed from residency/fellowship to make with an ortho group. Yet you continue to argue and defend the fact that pods "can" make that much. You need to read what everyone else is actually saying. They respond with A and you argue B. So they resond with B and you argue C. If you can't process all of these posts correctly I'm afraid being #1 in your class at NYCPM is going to be an uphill battle.
1) Some F/A fellowship ortho's DO make 600-800k in their first year. I have been recently searching for ortho jobs and they do list that range and never stated that experience is required, in fact I recall that I read a job post that will give an ortho F/A specialist for 500k and stated "recent graduates are encouraged to apply". The allo student gave his opinion, mines is based on REAL JOB POSTINGS.
2) I am still confident that there are pods who made that much in their first year maybe 1 in the northeast. This is why I said " extremely rare" which means that it is possible and I don't see why you or me or anyone else can't be that person if you have the WILL to go through that journey.
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$600,000 in the 1st year of podiatry practice? That's fantastic.
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Look at the MGMA statistics. If you want to see the upper-end of pod earnings, look at the column listing 90%tile earnings. You'll see that the 90%tile is 457K, and still over one full standard deviation bellow the 600K that you state. Keep that in mind...the 90th %tile is ONE FULL std. deviation below the salary you think you command within your first few years of post-residency practice.
One std. dev. above the 90th %tile is roughly the 97.9th %tile. Keep that in mind.
One std. dev. above the 90th %tile is roughly the 97.9th %tile. Keep that in mind.
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Link the job listing then champ.
^ this for sure. Some mod should put the lock down on this thread before it gets even uglier.
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This thread is absurd. Keep in mind that in order to land one of these "top" residencies you're seeking, personality will be a huge factor. Whining and arguing with a group of really well-informed resources who are gently trying to level your outrageous expectations doesn't bode well. All of your figures are soooo far off base it's hard to imagine why people are even replying . NOONE is making 400K + their first years out of residency. The only way to make that kind of money in podiatry is by opening your own practice, or by becoming partner of a very good practice. If this is the route you choose, the early years will not be glamorous. You'll work your butt off and most likely for a salary in the 100-150K range if you're lucky. Atleast you're set on being in the top 1% of your class, which would make you THE top student at NYCPM, or as someone else cleverly pointed out, the top half of one student at DMU. It's nice to see rational people who are good with numbers entering the profession.
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When/if you graduate from a residency, I encourage you to please take the time to re-read this entire post. I think you will find it as humorous as the rest of us.
As for right now, focus on that 1%.
As for right now, focus on that 1%.
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so I must ask this, what really is the starting salary of a podiatrist fresh out of residency (if possible the West Coast)?
I see averages but it does not differentiate from solo practice, group practice, hospital, VA, etc? I know for sure its not 400k-600k; I am pretty sure podiatry would get a lot more looks from prospective pre-med students thinking about orthopedic/foot surgery
I see averages but it does not differentiate from solo practice, group practice, hospital, VA, etc? I know for sure its not 400k-600k; I am pretty sure podiatry would get a lot more looks from prospective pre-med students thinking about orthopedic/foot surgery
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I've been away from the forum some time but stumbled across this subject and think I could help. See my history of past posts and you can see where I'm coming from. I am a full/equal partner in a very large ortho practice. I joined as an associate and was paid a salary then proved myself and was offered partnership. Being a partner means many things but as far as income goes it means I get an equal percentage of what I bring in plus shared ancillaries. I can set my salary per year as whatever I want but at the end of the year when we settle up if I paid myself too much and didn't cover then I'd have to cough up however much I was short in collections. I take a yearly "salary" of $245K and at then end of the year we take individual collections minus DME and medications and multiply by a percentage based on overhead (40% now). I get the difference plus a productivity based bonus. Then we take all collections for the entire practice from DME, PT, medications and split it evenly among all the partners. Pods in ortho practices who are the only F&A docs in that practice likely get offered around $200K to start but after being there a few years and assuming become partners likely make $300-$500K. That is not common because I don't know many ortho practices other than mine that offer partnership to pods. I'm in private practice and that situation is rare. More likely that a pod joins an ortho department at a university based system or hospital owned system than gets offered partnership in private practice. As for jobs offering $600-$800K, forget about it. That's not sustainable and is generally a university based system looking for a F&A ortho to take call, teach residents/fellows, teach and can absorb that cost. Not realistic to bring in collections to support paying anyone that unless you are a spine surgeon.
THANKS NEWANKLE. That was helpful. Based on your experience, in what region/regions in the country would you say pods have
a higher chances of joining an ortho group? And I'm a little confused about "partnership". So does it mean that you get to take as much as you make?
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I don't think joining an ortho group is particularly region specific but would say I see less of it where there is a higher saturation of F&A orthopods. Partnership means different things in different practices but in all it means you are a co-owner of the practice and have a say at the table on key decisions. Nowhere do you get to take as much as you make. After practice overhead is paid then that remainder of money left is to be allocated to the partners. For example when our practice brought on a new spine surgeon we had to pay them a salary (they are an associate, not a partner yet) attractive enough to get them but we don't want to lose much money on them. In their first year their collections were lower as they were building their practice and we actually lost quite a bit of money on them. That meant all the partners shared that loss and we are hopeful they will continue to increase their revenue so we will make some money off of them and they will eventually become a partner. Our practice model is somewhat shared but mostly eat what you kill. When I joined the practice as an associate they made quite a bit of money off of me that 1st and 2nd year then I was offered partnership. I feel as though partnership equates job security, a voice, and an opportunity to earn more but doesn't always equate to earning more. It's shared profit and loss and risk.
Thanks for your clarification. I was a little confused because someone told me before that as a partnership that person takes a certain percentage of what he made and the rest is distributed among the other partnerships in the multispeciality group he works at. For example every physician that is a partnership will take 70% of what he made and the other 30% will be collected from every physician and separated equally. Can this happen in some groups?
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Yes, each group may be structured with different compensation models.
newankle thank you for taking your time to explain how a podiatrist can work in an ortho setting. Do you know if there are classes or mentors that give students advice on avoiding podiatry or ortho groups that make podiatrists for a lot of less money (I have heard this is a problem in dentistry and ophthalmology groups as well)
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The job you decide to take is your decision. You need to do your homework and expectations for you and your employer need to be clearly defined as well as a compensation model you can both deal with. Don't be upset if your employer makes money off of you when you start - they are supposed to and if they lose money on you, you won't be around long. As far as orthopaedic practices just make sure your role is clearly defined. Some ortho practices who employ both foot & ankle ortho and podiatry have the podiatrist do the non surgical care and forefoot surgery only. There are no classes for this. Have your peers/mentors review potential contracts and give advice and ask around.
thanks for the reply newankle, really appreciated. my apologies if I came off expecting a huge salary and a cush job when starting fresh as a podiatrist which in the business sense is insane to pay a new comer a lot of excess money considering the starting practitioner has proven anything yet or built up a patient base. Do you see ortho groups incorporating my podiatrists in their groups and allowing to become partner or will this be one of the few rare cases where orthos take pods in the future?
