What is your idea of the ideal DPT program?

[KingofSwampCastle]

I was recently hired to start a new DPT program at a small university. I have enjoyed reading the comments related to South College's new program (though it doesn't look like any SC students have actually posted). I have also seen comments that students do not like endless lectures. (Do you know the University of Vermont Medical School is going to phase out all lectures?) I am looking for suggestions for what you consider the ideal DPT program. I'm most interested in input related to curriculum length, content, sequencing. Do you think learning in modules, where content is concentrated over a few weeks, but you would take only, say, 2 courses at a time instead of 5 or 6 over a whole semester, is a good idea? We're going to be on the semester system but, except for the break between Christmas and New Year, we can have classes any time. I think breaks are important, but how long of a break do you find ideal? I won't have control over tuition - sorry - but anything else (within limits) is fair game. Thanks, and I look forward to reading your suggestions.

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[jadedphysiotherapist]

I was recently hired to start a new DPT program at a small university. I have enjoyed reading the comments related to South College's new program (though it doesn't look like any SC students have actually posted). I have also seen comments that students do not like endless lectures. (Do you know the University of Vermont Medical School is going to phase out all lectures?) I am looking for suggestions for what you consider the ideal DPT program. I'm most interested in input related to curriculum length, content, sequencing. Do you think learning in modules, where content is concentrated over a few weeks, but you would take only, say, 2 courses at a time instead of 5 or 6 over a whole semester, is a good idea? We're going to be on the semester system but, except for the break between Christmas and New Year, we can have classes any time. I think breaks are important, but how long of a break do you find ideal? I won't have control over tuition - sorry - but anything else (within limits) is fair game. Thanks, and I look forward to reading your suggestions.

Module based on your own time with hands on application during class time focused on repetition and interchanging classmates to feel different anatomy.

Team based learning activity quizzes to force attendance. Text with videos on the modules. Cadaver dissection with the student physically cutting. Teach motor control courses following an exercise physio course and split it up into an Ortho, neuro, obstacle based pediatrics w/ a psychology focus, vestibular and balance, and sport components...in blocks.

Correlate the therapeutic exercise/ motor control courses to acute care and inpatient rehab, General Ortho, outpatient neuro, and vestibular and balance retraining, perhaps sport.

-Anatomy
-Physiology
-Biochem principles
-neuroscience
-pharmacology
-micro/diseases and pathophys
-musculoskeletal
-cardiopulmonary issues and deconditioning
-radiology
-exercise science and metabolism
-pathophysiology of the healing process following trauma or secondary to disease
-Human gait and biomechanics
-Human gait and biomechanics 2: Deviations, control, and movement system impairments

should all be complete before transitioning to the therapeutic exercise coursework that is split up into the components mentioned above since it's all interconnected.

Other coursework:
-examination and evaluation (test and measures)
-clinical documentation general
-clinical documentation per setting (I swear this would be so unbelievably helpful)
-intervention progressions through the settings
-differential diagnosis
-psychomotor principles and patient learning/ activity replication (this is how you teach patients to progress)
-orthotics prosthetics and disability devices
-human development in sensory integration, attention, growth and strength, and psychology through the lifespan
-evidence based physical therapy and literature interpretation
-positioning, guarding, placement and movement transitions: General therapist skillset

Start clinic visits as one day experiences after the first year and assign students.

Have all coursework completed within 24 months with a clinical year for the 3-4 setting requirement starting within the fiscal budget year of July to July as set by congress.

Keep the class sizes small so students can link with clinicians within the surrounding area for clinicals and don't make an arbitrary forced requirement that people HAVE to go to a different state.

Provide a budgeting class at the beginning of the program coupled with a wellness seminar for mental health and self care. Make the cutoff requirements a 70% with a high push to make students shoot for 80% to stay in the safe zone. An 80% is a 3.0, 87% is a 3.3, 90% 3.7, 93% 4.0. 70-80% 2.0

Students can get two Ds within the curriculum as long as their overall grades are above 70%

Practicals have a remediation if failed with a write up followup on what went wrong and how to try and fix it.

Electives include interdisciplinary communication within healthcare, healthcare marketing, branding, personality and teamwork building, clinical year milestone setting to be prepared to progress through

Breaks of 2 weeks are plenty. 6 weeks vacation per calendar year as well as federal holidays.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

Nobody knows what board pass rates are going to be for SC or the new Baylor.

Also, PLEASE stick to calendar years if you can. No arbitrary January or trimester start date. Makes hiring go out of whack and CIs don't know how to progress you when the other student in clinic is on their fourth rotation while you're on your second

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

Nvm

 

[DesertPT]

The biggest things you could do as a program director to help your students is to keep the program cheap and to do everything you can to minimize the amount of busy work that is put upon the students. The amount of time spent in PT school doing busy work assignments, research and projects that you could be using to actually learn how to be a skilled clinician is unreal. We pay TOP DOLLAR to listen to the same classmates drone on for the 12th time about the PubMed and CINAHL search terms used in some esoteric paper that they had to do a 25 minute presentation on just to find out that more research is needed and then go home. If that time was used to let a master clinician teach us something about how to treat pt's, that might actually be worth paying for.

I defy any 2nd or 3rd year SPT to tell me this isn't how PT school is.

 

[KingofSwampCastle]

The biggest things you could do as a program director to help your students is to keep the program cheap and to do everything you can to minimize the amount of busy work that is put upon the students. The amount of time spent in PT school doing busy work assignments, research and projects that you could be using to actually learn how to be a skilled clinician is unreal. We pay TOP DOLLAR to listen to the same classmates drone on for the 12th time about the PubMed and CINAHL search terms used in some esoteric paper that they had to do a 25 minute presentation on just to find out that more research is needed and then go home. If that time was used to let a master clinician teach us something about how to treat pt's, that might actually be worth paying for.

I defy any 2nd or 3rd year SPT to tell me this isn't how PT school is.

I hear you, and I appreciate your comments. With regard to research and presentations, I think expectations that should be met by every student should be specified, and I am a firm believer that it's not necessary for students to have to demonstrate those skills in multiple courses. So a student in my program won't do 12 research presentations. I would like a specific example of what you consider "busy work." I've heard students complain of "busy work" but I wonder if the faculty sometimes just doesn't explain the purpose of an assignment or project or lets students get by with just having done "busy work." So a specific example (or 2 or 3) would be helpful so I know what not to do. Thanks!

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

The biggest things you could do as a program director to help your students is to keep the program cheap and to do everything you can to minimize the amount of busy work that is put upon the students. The amount of time spent in PT school doing busy work assignments, research and projects that you could be using to actually learn how to be a skilled clinician is unreal. We pay TOP DOLLAR to listen to the same classmates drone on for the 12th time about the PubMed and CINAHL search terms used in some esoteric paper that they had to do a 25 minute presentation on just to find out that more research is needed and then go home. If that time was used to let a master clinician teach us something about how to treat pt's, that might actually be worth paying for.

I defy any 2nd or 3rd year SPT to tell me this isn't how PT school is.

This was an issue in the tail end of first year and is a problem at presentations in third year. I didn't have this in the middle portion of the program actually.

I think it's fine at the tail end of first year since it actually gets a homogeneous understanding that you're practicing a science, based on literature, which is constantly evolving.

Return to work and return to sport stratified towards age and prior level of function with what actually constitutes baseline for coordination, balance, strength, or safety for some activities still lacks clearly defined parameters.

It is dropping in a basic skillset for continuing education when out.


Maintaining clinical sites within driving distance is arguably the most important thing for mitigating cost. I find it absurd that faculty try to encourage residency as well as being an APTA member when

a. They never did it
b. They make six figures but are trying to get you to use loan money to be "active"
c. The matching system to sites is absolute nonsense as housing isn't provided....PA field and osteopathic students have to deal with the same thing a lot.

I hear you, and I appreciate your comments. With regard to research and presentations, I think expectations that should be met by every student should be specified, and I am a firm believer that it's not necessary for students to have to demonstrate those skills in multiple courses. So a student in my program won't do 12 research presentations. I would like a specific example of what you consider "busy work." I've heard students complain of "busy work" but I wonder if the faculty sometimes just doesn't explain the purpose of an assignment or project or lets students get by with just having done "busy work." So a specific example (or 2 or 3) would be helpful so I know what not to do. Thanks!

Oh there's busy work. "Write out a ten page paper outlining GCS differences for each level" when you've already learned it, been tested, and the Internet exists.

"Please write out where you see yourself in ten years and what you will be doing....."

Multiple case studies for one environment over and over and over.......and it isn't continuity on a specific patient

"What medication will most likely be prescribed for all of the different presentations........." (...This isn't even supposed to be my job. Talk to the pharmacist or physician)

"Please write out the APTA practice guidelines and practice patterns...." when you have 3 exams that week....

The assignments should instead be one person with a presentation at different stages of the rehab process. Interventions to use, when there are red flags to catch, when referral is needed, when to progress to a different environment, when to administer outcome measures, how to get away from 3x10 and instead focus on loads and stresses that challenge and stress tissues appropriately to prevent reinjury.

I also highly encourage a case study in which a patient has to be moved to different locations during recovery and where the correct settings for d/c are and how to word a note well so the next therapist can pick up and see where someone's tolerance is.

 

[starrsgirl]

I like early integration in clinical observation within the first year (1 day observations). Although many students come with lots of clinical hours, many of them are in single settings. Block off 1 afternoon a week for a community clinic staffed by PTs in the community or faculty members. Pt students can serve as techs initially, then move to directing the therapy as they progress. (I personally think requiring tons of clinical observation hours is a ridiculous admissions requirement and will impact your non traditional applicants the most. Ask for a reasonable amount....my school required 60. Recognize its very difficult to get into settings other than OP ortho especially for someone who may be working full time and don't hold that against applicants).

Balance in person lecture with online classes for efficiency and to allow for different learning styles. Classes like pharmacology do not have to be in person.

I'm big fan of shortened curriculum. I go to a traditional 3 year program. I think the breaks we have are a huge waste of time (we are off most of 2 summers, we had nearly a month around Christmas). And they are costly for students. If you are at a private, smaller university, your tuition may be high. But you can counteract that with a shorter program which saves students in loans, living expenses and gets them working earlier. Even if I was able to graduate and work 1 semester early, I essentially can earn an "extra" 30K which helps offset some of the high tuition cost. I believe a reasonable break between semesters is 1 week, allow a 2 week break on the holidays. Consider putting in online classes in the summer so students can be at home if they wish but still completely a full course load.

I think endless lectures are low yield, I did not agree with our attendance policy in said lectures. I like the ideas of intensive modules. I find that style to be very effective (think, going to a 4 day continuing ed course).

 

[DesertPT]

I like early integration in clinical observation within the first year (1 day observations). Although many students come with lots of clinical hours, many of them are in single settings. Block off 1 afternoon a week for a community clinic staffed by PTs in the community or faculty members. Pt students can serve as techs initially, then move to directing the therapy as they progress. (I personally think requiring tons of clinical observation hours is a ridiculous admissions requirement and will impact your non traditional applicants the most. Ask for a reasonable amount....my school required 60. Recognize its very difficult to get into settings other than OP ortho especially for someone who may be working full time and don't hold that against applicants).

Balance in person lecture with online classes for efficiency and to allow for different learning styles. Classes like pharmacology do not have to be in person.

I'm big fan of shortened curriculum. I go to a traditional 3 year program. I think the breaks we have are a huge waste of time (we are off most of 2 summers, we had nearly a month around Christmas). And they are costly for students. If you are at a private, smaller university, your tuition may be high. But you can counteract that with a shorter program which saves students in loans, living expenses and gets them working earlier. Even if I was able to graduate and work 1 semester early, I essentially can earn an "extra" 30K which helps offset some of the high tuition cost. I believe a reasonable break between semesters is 1 week, allow a 2 week break on the holidays. Consider putting in online classes in the summer so students can be at home if they wish but still completely a full course load.

I think endless lectures are low yield, I did not agree with our attendance policy in said lectures. I like the ideas of intensive modules. I find that style to be very effective (think, going to a 4 day continuing ed course).

Love it. Couldn't agree with everything in this post more. I didn't have summers off in my program but I think this is all still very relevant to most programs. The variation in the number of total weeks of instruction between programs is definitely more than it should be. And seriously, if you want advice on how to make a program more efficient and less painful for everyone, talk to the non-traditional students.

I especially second online summer classes so people can stay home but still shorten the program. Mandatory attendance at in person lectures for basic science classes that have no lab component or hands-on aspect at all (eg pathophys, pharm, imaging) is an antiquated teaching style. There was one class that we had in a 2-weekend format (all day Friday, all day Saturday x2), which I thought would be terrible but I ended up learning a lot because there was more continuity and flow, and less wasted time, when you can cover more material in one go, so I second that comment as well. Classes with no hands-on aspect would have been so much more efficient if I could just watch recorded lectures at 1.5x speed, make flashcards and memorize, take the test and be done. Because rote memorization + regurgitation is all that happens in those classes anyway, why not spend lecture time doing that instead of sitting for 3 hours while someone reads powerpoint slides to you word for word.

For me, the ideal set-up for straight lecture classes would be in person lectures provided for those who prefer to learn that way, with recording of the lecture posted online for those who would rather watch at home, no mandatory attendance. Because let's be real here, getting a DPT is frequently a paper chase and/or an exercise in making rocket science out of things that are simple. If you can pass the classes and pass the board exam, who cares what format you learned in or whether you sat through all those lectures or not? Only 10% at best of what you hear in a lecture is retained anyway, so for rote memorization classes, let's pass the test and get in, get out, get done and practicing in the real world ASAP.

As for busy work, I like the comments above. As a student I would way rather turn in a SOAP note based on an observation experience than have to summarize a research article. Yes, require students to demonstrate that they can be effective consumers of literature, but don't beat the dead horse. Use assignments that actually require learning and clinical reasoning. We've had so many assignments that were copy/paste then reword, plug and chug or color by numbers essentially, if you know what I mean.

Forgive me for this rambling post and lack of proper English throughout.

 

[DesertPT]

And so it begins-Baylor's new "hybrid" DPT program will start in 2018

Another thread here that might be of interest to the OP, lots of talk about what students would actually prefer in terms of class formatting.

 

[DesertPT]

Good article here about what the University of Vermont is doing as was mentioned: U of Vermont medical school to get rid of all lecture courses

I had a couple of supposedly "flipped classroom" courses in PT school that actually were very poorly executed. If the "active learning" classroom time turns into a lot of busywork, social hour and/or waiting around to be dismissed, that is my fear about this format and I would rather just sit and listen to the lecture. The reality is, nobody actually likes group work. The other reality is that most students won't come to "active learning time" actually having watched the lecture and prepared themselves.

My other issue with the flipped classroom is that in the courses I took it effectively increased the amount of seat time for the student by a large amount. What used to be a 3 hour traditional lecture once a week can quickly turn into a 2-hour webinar plus a 2-hour "active learning experience", which really isn't fair if it remains a 3 credit course. The active learning time can quickly turn into a pseudo lecture as well. No offense, but most academics love to hear themselves talk and can't restrain themselves from pontificating.

The "flipped classroom" needs to be very well-executed to be worth doing. In general I think I'd prefer traditional format but with recorded lectures available online and no mandatory attendance. I went into great detail on how I saw this be very well executed in undergrad in the other thread linked in post #10 above.

 

[ptisfun2]

I was recently hired to start a new DPT program at a small university. I have enjoyed reading the comments related to South College's new program (though it doesn't look like any SC students have actually posted). I have also seen comments that students do not like endless lectures. (Do you know the University of Vermont Medical School is going to phase out all lectures?) I am looking for suggestions for what you consider the ideal DPT program. I'm most interested in input related to curriculum length, content, sequencing. Do you think learning in modules, where content is concentrated over a few weeks, but you would take only, say, 2 courses at a time instead of 5 or 6 over a whole semester, is a good idea? We're going to be on the semester system but, except for the break between Christmas and New Year, we can have classes any time. I think breaks are important, but how long of a break do you find ideal? I won't have control over tuition - sorry - but anything else (within limits) is fair game. Thanks, and I look forward to reading your suggestions.

I think you shoudl consider the faculty you hire and infrastructure at your 'small university.' Expecting productive research without the infrastructure and low teaching load is setting faculty up for failure, and poor rigor or research, which will further diminish the research base for the profession.

 

[KingofSwampCastle]

I think you shoudl consider the faculty you hire and infrastructure at your 'small university.' Expecting productive research without the infrastructure and low teaching load is setting faculty up for failure, and poor rigor or research, which will further diminish the research base for the profession.[/QUOTE

I think you shoudl consider the faculty you hire and infrastructure at your 'small university.' Expecting productive research without the infrastructure and low teaching load is setting faculty up for failure, and poor rigor or research, which will further diminish the research base for the profession.

What about the infrastructu

I think you shoudl consider the faculty you hire and infrastructure at your 'small university.' Expecting productive research without the infrastructure and low teaching load is setting faculty up for failure, and poor rigor or research, which will further diminish the research base for the profession.

How will the infrastructure at my university preclude quality research by the faculty?

 

[jesspt]

How will the infrastructure at my university preclude quality research by the faculty?

Does the school have an IRB?

 

[ptisfun2]

Does the school have an IRB?

Yes, and does the IRB meet year round? Or only during the academic year?
How large is OSP (Office of Sponsored Projects)? Do you have pre-award and post-award people? Grant managers?
Does the university allow sufficient start up? Will the start up allow funds for publication costs or equipment only?
What are teaching expectations for new faculty? Anything above 50% teaching would be tough for research productivity.
Will you be able to hire experienced researchers? Or is your budget only going to allow you to hire the minimum number of PhD (50%) without good research training and then DPTs without sufficient research training?
What other departments exist in the university for collaboration? Are there other clinical science departments in your university? That sure will help with OSP and IRB if someone else has filled them in on the nuances of clinical sciences (for example, when FDA approval is required for devices used in research).

 

[DesertPT]

I think you shoudl consider the faculty you hire and infrastructure at your 'small university.' Expecting productive research without the infrastructure and low teaching load is setting faculty up for failure, and poor rigor or research, which will further diminish the research base for the profession.

Yes, and does the IRB meet year round? Or only during the academic year?
How large is OSP (Office of Sponsored Projects)? Do you have pre-award and post-award people? Grant managers?
Does the university allow sufficient start up? Will the start up allow funds for publication costs or equipment only?
What are teaching expectations for new faculty? Anything above 50% teaching would be tough for research productivity.
Will you be able to hire experienced researchers? Or is your budget only going to allow you to hire the minimum number of PhD (50%) without good research training and then DPTs without sufficient research training?
What other departments exist in the university for collaboration? Are there other clinical science departments in your university? That sure will help with OSP and IRB if someone else has filled them in on the nuances of clinical sciences (for example, when FDA approval is required for devices used in research).

Relevant reading:
https://oup.silverchair-cdn.com/oup...mBclVWBV9A__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIUCZBIA4LVPAVW3Q

tl;dr: If the ~31,000 SPT's currently enrolled were concentrated into ~100 larger programs at major research universities rather than 236+ programs of highly variable size in all kinds of different types of schools, we would have a lot more productive research output in our field. Rehabilitation research is not exactly a cash cow, so we ought to remember that academia is not immune from economies of scale. Among many other points.