What is your school telling you about when you (med students) might/will get a COVID vaccine?

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Can you elaborate? Cause I also have been confused as to how the vaccine would would but immunity from having had COVID could be insufficient to prevent reinfection.

So for one, the risks of the vaccine are minimal. There is long term safety data on mRNA vaccines showing them to be safe. The trials on this specific one were short term but showed minimal side effects and nothing serious. On the other side, the risks of COVID are extremely serious and range from nothing to death or permanent sequelae. So relying on natural infection is much riskier.

Second, the immunity that you get from natural infection varies from person to person. Depending on how severe your infection is, you may have immunity for 8+ months or only a couple weeks. Everyone gets the same dose of the vaccine. So natural infection doesn’t guarantee lasting or even a decent immunity.

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[Dantes]

M3, just got the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine today. My 5G reception is now off the charts

 

[<L>]

Supposedly vaccination produces a more robust antibody response than natural infection, but not sure if that’s actually a good thing. I want to see T-cell assays in response to vaccine vs natural infection months and years after the fact.

It's anecdotal now but I've personally seen reinfection, and yeah I'm more than happy to get however many more jabs I'll need.

 

[Lawpy]

M3, just got the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine today. My 5G reception is now off the charts

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah, yeah. And no data supporting long term immunity conferred by the vaccine either. I’m confused as to what the actual mechanism is as well. Like, what cells specifically express the introduced mRNA? How long does it last before it’s ubiquitinated and degraded by proteosomes? Will vaccination prove to be effective when spike protein mutates in the virus? What are the implications of injecting a foreign mRNA into our bodies versus the entire viral genome (IE, what our immune system and viruses have co-evolved with for millennia).

It doesn’t matter if it’s long term immunity. The immunity only has to last long enough for there to be no available hosts for the virus.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Permanent sequelae? Isn’t it a little soon to make that determination? This thing has been around for what, a year or so? I think we have much to learn about our innate immune systems (and the damage they can cause to our own tissues, which is so often worse than the pathogen itself), before playing God in labs and injecting ourselves with bioactive rna fragments, but these are just my thoughts and why I’m risk averse to the vaccine. If I was metabolically deranged, old, fat, exhausted my stem cells, etc, my risk calculations would likely be different.

I mean it’s always going to be “too early” until you follow someone until death. But maybe a better term would have been long-term. I know 26 year olds who got it in March and still can’t do any form of cardio without feeling like they have half a lung. There are men who are still having fertility issues. PICS. Lots of long term sequelae.

You’re not risk averse. You seem very anti-vax, which is extremely troubling if you’re a medical student.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Got my first dose today. Had a bit of a headache, but I also had some surgery on my neck so I’m not sure which it was from lol.

 

[Kirby Smart]

It doesn’t matter if it’s long term immunity. The immunity only has to last long enough for there to be no available hosts for the virus.

* Gets hopeful, then remembers that such hope requires faith in the American people *

 

[builderstorch]

I will say first-year med students in Arizona are getting the vaccine thru the county.

 

[Cornfed101]

So for one, the risks of the vaccine are minimal. There is long term safety data on mRNA vaccines showing them to be safe. The trials on this specific one were short term but showed minimal side effects and nothing serious. On the other side, the risks of COVID are extremely serious and range from nothing to death or permanent sequelae. So relying on natural infection is much riskier.

Second, the immunity that you get from natural infection varies from person to person. Depending on how severe your infection is, you may have immunity for 8+ months or only a couple weeks. Everyone gets the same dose of the vaccine. So natural infection doesn’t guarantee lasting or even a decent immunity.

Oh I’m not anti vaccine. I will absolutely be getting it, but I also think people who already had Covid don’t need to be first in line to get the vaccine. Maybe get it eventually though.

I don’t think the vaccines are dangerous, I was just responding to the previous comment that if you’ve had it you don’t need to be first in line.

I had chickenpox so I didn’t get the vaccine for it. I had a very hard time finding real evidence of more than a handful of reinfections. If any of you have literature backing that up I’d love to read it!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Oh I’m not anti vaccine. I will absolutely be getting it, but I also think people who already had Covid don’t need to be first in line to get the vaccine. Maybe get it eventually though.

I don’t think the vaccines are dangerous, I was just responding to the previous comment that if you’ve had it you don’t need to be first in line.

I had chickenpox so I didn’t get the vaccine for it. I had a very hard time finding real evidence of more than a handful of reinfections. If any of you have literature backing that up I’d love to read it!

Yeah I didn’t say you were anti-vaccine or anything. However, as I said, because the immunity from a natural covid infection is so variable and unpredictable, it can’t be relied on. Literally every org is recommending people who have had covid get it and not to rely on the immunity, if any, they may have developed from the natural infection. So the idea that they should be at the end of the line is not based in science.

And chickenpox is a bad example. As I’m sure you know, reinfection with chickenpox is extremely rare. Additionally, in the few cases of reinfection, the disease course is almost always mild. Reinfection with covid might not be common, but the risks of covid are just as high in reinfection (and if the first course left you with long term pulmonary or cardiovascular complication, likely to be higher).

 

[Ho0v-man]

 

[<L>]

The immunity only has to last long enough for there to be no available hosts for the virus.

Good luck with that.

 

[Yhwach]

I'm getting it next week.

 

[xffan624]

Oh I’m not anti vaccine. I will absolutely be getting it, but I also think people who already had Covid don’t need to be first in line to get the vaccine. Maybe get it eventually though.

I don’t think the vaccines are dangerous, I was just responding to the previous comment that if you’ve had it you don’t need to be first in line.

I had chickenpox so I didn’t get the vaccine for it. I had a very hard time finding real evidence of more than a handful of reinfections. If any of you have literature backing that up I’d love to read it!

Anecdotal but I have seen a handful of repeat infections based on employee health tracking of infected HCW's at the hospitals I have worked at. It is not common, but I wouldn't describe it as rare either based on my (admittedly) limited experience.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Good luck with that.

I know. It’s so frustrating.

 

[bigfootisreal]

M3 our school just started rolling out the vaccine for clinical students.

 

[Nucleophile1]

All the M1s at my school have gotten it (if they signed up I mean) so they’re moving onto the general population now (like the elderly/immunocompromised/etc)

It's crazy to see the discrepancies between schools. I'm an M4 and I have no idea when I will get vaccinated.

 

[Cornfed101]

It's crazy to see the discrepancies between schools. I'm an M4 and I have no idea when I will get vaccinated.

m3-4 should absolutely be getting it, M1s really shouldn’t be unless they are seeing patients. Kinda stupid if they aren’t seeing patients and are getting vaccinated at this point. IMO restaurant and gas station employees should be getting it before me the lowly M1

 

[MDMechEngr]

m3-4 should absolutely be getting it, M1s really shouldn’t be unless they are seeing patients. Kinda stupid if they aren’t seeing patients and are getting vaccinated at this point. IMO restaurant and gas station employees should be getting it before me the lowly M1

we get to shadow the docs in the OR at the hospital as an M1. Yeh, we would need it to be safe. So fortunate to be able to do this as an M1, especially during this pandemic.

 

[Yhwach]

m3-4 should absolutely be getting it, M1s really shouldn’t be unless they are seeing patients. Kinda stupid if they aren’t seeing patients and are getting vaccinated at this point. IMO restaurant and gas station employees should be getting it before me the lowly M1

I think most of these things are decided by the state. The med school is just doing what they are told to do.

 

[Cornfed101]

we get to shadow the docs in the OR at the hospital as an M1. Yeh, we would need it to be safe. So fortunate to be able to do this as an M1, especially during this pandemic.

oh yeah we don’t get to shadow... that would make a difference

 

[MavFab]

we get to shadow the docs in the OR at the hospital as an M1. Yeh, we would need it to be safe. So fortunate to be able to do this as an M1, especially during this pandemic.

We also do real patient encounters as M1s at my school so we do go into the hospital to do physicals etc this semester

I'm surprised schools are still having M1s do these kinds of activities. It seems silly to have additional unnecessary people around. I also think it makes more sense to vaccinate high risk individuals in the community before any preclinical students.

 

[ACSurgeon]

reinfection is extremely rare. And if you can get reinfected after having Covid 19 there is a high chance the vaccine would have to same effectiveness. It’s not like the vaccine provides a stronger immune response than the actual virus...

I thought the vaccine resulted in an eight fold higher serum antibody level on average compared to getting infected. I thoughts that’s why it’s supposed to protect longer.

me= simple general surgeon, no vaccine expert

 

[Mad Jack]

It doesn’t matter if it’s long term immunity. The immunity only has to last long enough for there to be no available hosts for the virus.

Given the size and scale of the antivax movement both here and abroad, I think we're gonna need lifetime immunity

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

reinfection is extremely rare. And if you can get reinfected after having Covid 19 there is a high chance the vaccine would have to same effectiveness. It’s not like the vaccine provides a stronger immune response than the actual virus...

It actually might, there's precedent for that.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Given the size and scale of the antivax movement both here and abroad, I think we're gonna need lifetime immunity

By the time everyone who wants a vaccine has gotten it, a substantial portion of our population should have actually had COVID. We've already had 22 million and we're getting 250k/day. At this rate by June I'd wager a solid quarter (maybe as much as a third) of our population will have had it. Even if it only provides limited immunity, that should help.

 

[Mad Jack]

By the time everyone who wants a vaccine has gotten it, a substantial portion of our population should have actually had COVID. We've already had 22 million and we're getting 250k/day. At this rate by June I'd wager a solid quarter (maybe as much as a third) of our population will have had it. Even if it only provides limited immunity, that should help.

My worry is that vaccination uptake will be so low that this virus continues to spread at low levels until it mutates its spike protein enough to pass on to the immunized. Just speculation on my part though

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Given the size and scale of the antivax movement both here and abroad, I think we're gonna need lifetime immunity

Yeah. I’m hoping that as the people who are on the fence see those of us who get it don’t grow extra limbs or suddenly buy tons of Microsoft stock, they’ll jump in to get it. I think the number of truly conspiracy theory antivax people is actually pretty small and that most people are just misinformed and nervous.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Yeah. I’m hoping that as the people who are on the fence see those of us who get it don’t grow extra limbs or suddenly buy tons of Microsoft stock, they’ll jump in to get it. I think the number of truly conspiracy theory antivax people is actually pretty small and that most people are just misinformed and nervous.

You haven’t done enough peds and rural FM rotations.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

My worry is that vaccination uptake will be so low that this virus continues to spread at low levels until it mutates its spike protein enough to pass on to the immunized. Just speculation on my part though

If it mutates enough to avoid the vaccine it would hopefully be less virulent

 

[stickgirl390]

It’s not like the vaccine provides a stronger immune response than the actual virus...

Some vaccines do provide stronger immune responses than the actual bug. Ex Illness from natural tetanus infection is too small an exposure to trigger a lasting immune response. The toxoid vaccine is given at a much higher dose which is enough to generate long term immunity.

 

[Mad Jack]

If it mutates enough to avoid the vaccine it would hopefully be less virulent

Could go either way though. Natural selection is finicky like that

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Could go either way though. Natural selection is finicky like that

Could. Though a mutation that significantly increases virulence is likely to decrease transmissibility.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Could go either way though. Natural selection intelligent design is finicky like that

FTFY

 

[Mad Jack]

Could. Though a mutation that significantly increases virulence is likely to decrease transmissibility.

This is not necessarily true. The transmissability if a virus in most cases decreases with increasing virulence because a deadly disease is less likely to be passed on to further hosts due to it killing too quickly or incapacitating too severely to allow for further transmission. What makes COVID a nightmare virus is the fact that it has a great deal of latency between infection and severe illness, which allows it to transmit a great deal even in those it kills. In viruses with shorter latency periods, increased virulence usually leads to less spread, but there is no guarantee that increased virulence in COVID will also cause shortening of its disease course. Furthermore even if it did lead to halving of the average period before severe symptoms develop, that would still allow 5-7 days for spread, more than enough time.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This is not necessarily true. The transmissability if a virus in most cases decreases with increasing virulence because a deadly disease is less likely to be passed on to further hosts due to it killing too quickly or incapacitating too severely to allow for further transmission. What makes COVID a nightmare virus is the fact that it has a great deal of latency between infection and severe illness, which allows it to transmit a great deal even in those it kills. In viruses with shorter latency periods, increased virulence usually leads to less spread, but there is no guarantee that increased virulence in COVID will also cause shortening of its disease course. Furthermore even if it did lead to halving of the average period before severe symptoms develop, that would still allow 5-7 days for spread, more than enough time.

Yeah I said “is likely” not “will definitely” because while that often happens, it doesn’t always.

 

[Nugester]

Email stating vaccinations will open up to the school affiliated community. Just signed up for a spot.

 

[Kirby Smart]

Email stating vaccinations will open up to the school affiliated community. Just signed up for a spot.

What exactly does “school affiliated community” mean? As in all faculty/staff and students of your university?

 

[Nugester]

What exactly does “school affiliated community” mean? As in all faculty/staff and students of your university?

Yes, faculty, employees, and students!

 

[NicMouse64]

Finally got mine through affiliated hospital today due to being on an anesthesia rotation!

 

[NickNaylor]

Our institution has started vaccinating medical students as of this past week.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Finally got mine through the health department. Our school's stance is still "ask your sites, good luck".

I kind of also agree that M1s/2s shouldn't be prioritized, but whatever. Tons of first and second year students from my school are signing up for vaccines through the health department, but all they're doing is Zoom classes so they're technically no more at risk than anyone else. But whatever. Just happy to have mine since I've seen many a patient who have tested positive within the days after our encounter.

 

[deleted1079620]

Finally got mine through the health department. Our school's stance is still "ask your sites, good luck".

I kind of also agree that M1s/2s shouldn't be prioritized, but whatever. Tons of first and second year students from my school are signing up for vaccines through the health department, but all they're doing is Zoom classes so they're technically no more at risk than anyone else. But whatever. Just happy to have mine since I've seen many a patient who have tested positive within the days after our encounter.

We still go in person for OMM lab, anatomy lab and doctoring course labs, where we are exposed to clinical faculty who are exposed to patients. I guess that’s kind of an excuse 1st & 2nd years are using to get the vaccine...at least, that’s the one I’ve heard from classmates.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

We still go in person for OMM lab, anatomy lab and doctoring course labs, where we are exposed to clinical faculty who are exposed to patients. I guess that’s kind of an excuse 1st & 2nd years are using to get the vaccine...at least, that’s the one I’ve heard from classmates.

I get it, I just think it's weak. In that case, you're no more exposed than a grocery store worker etc.

 

[deleted1079620]

I get it, I just think it's weak. In that case, you're no more exposed than a grocery store worker etc.

I agree, and actually in my state grocery store workers are classified as front line workers.

 

[MavFab]

I agree, and actually in my state grocery store workers are classified as front line workers.

At this point we should be vaccinating anyone over 65 or w/ pre-existing conditions who wants it. Sounds like the vaccines are available in a lot of places, but there weren't enough people in the designated groups who wanted them. Relaxing the criteria for who qualifies would allow those vaccines to be given instead of sitting on shelves.

 

[Nugester]

I had to reschedule my appointment and I was surprised at how many open spots there are still two days out at my school. There is a good number of people out there (even front line workers) that don't want the vaccine. I agree that we should be getting them out in arms to the people that want them, even if they are lowly M1s/M2s.

At this point we should be vaccinating anyone over 65 or w/ pre-existing conditions who wants it. Sounds like the vaccines are available in a lot of places, but there weren't enough people in the designated groups who wanted them. Relaxing the criteria for who qualifies would allow those vaccines to be given instead of sitting on shelves.

 

[NicMouse64]

I had to reschedule my appointment and I was surprised at how many open spots there are still two days out at my school. There is a good number of people out there (even front line workers) that don't want the vaccine. I agree that we should be getting them out in arms to the people that want them, even if they are lowly M1s/M2s.

Classify them as essential workers, not HCWs, unless actually seeing patients consistently (more than once per week).

 

[Type2Fiber]

does the vaccine work or are we going to be expected to wear masks forever?

the vaccine data seems good so why are some recommending to continue masking even after vaccination? seems ridiculous