What it takes to get into dental school.

[Oracle DMD]

hey pre-dents! i spent a long time last year reading all the posts on sdn without sharing so now that i'm in i feel like i might be able to shed some light on what it takes. there are a whole lot of stats being thrown around concerning what will and will not get you into dental school. i personally know students with a 20 on the DAT and a 3.5 gpa that didn't even get an interview. i got in with a 17 DAT and a 2.9 gpa. how could this be possible? easy. its not just a numbers game. if you are worried about one part of your application, what have you done in the other areas? are you in the pre-dental org at your university? why not? are you in a leadership position? why not? do you work in the dental field at least part time? why not? are you getting involed in community orgs? are you visiting the schools that you are interested in?
you see while there will always be applicants with strong numbers, dental schools know that good ungergrad GPA's dont neccesarily make good dentists! be passionate about dentistry and show them what else you are capable of!
if you are waiting for an interview from your #1 2 or 3 school, why havent you gone to visit the campus? meet the faculty and get a tour but remain professional. also, the admissions committe knows about SDN and predents and all that so be aware that if you do get an interview, they know if their interview questions are posted or not. if you rehearse your answers, it sounds like it - thats bad form. be candid and honest. if you are passionate about dentistry, you will shine at the interview!
and finally; no schools are really better than other schools. some may be better for YOU but it would be arrogant to think that you could not get a quality dental education/ experience from any dental school in the country. i've visited plenty of schools and done my homework on this. some schools i thought were better than others but thats just for me, not in general! if you get in ANYWHERE you are like a lottery winner because you get a chance to do what you love in a great profession and use your new skill to give back to your community because you did NOT get this far alone.
good luck with the application process! it can be long and grueling but if you hang in there, better yourself, and hold on to your dream...you'll get there.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Bruinlove]

Thanks for the kind advice. But, 2.9/17 without any post-bac?

I personally think we should call you an exception.

 

[SugarNaCl]

Thanks for the kind advice. But, 2.9/17 without any post-bac?

I personally think we should call you an exception.

Yeah, I agree with Bruinlove. It CAN happen, but it isn't the norm. Most with a 2.9 and 17 on the DATs wouldn't even make it past the "numbers game" to have the rest of their application overviewed. I think a lot of times people with your stats that get accepted either:

1. Have connections to a school or contacted ADCOMs prior to applying or
2. Got lucky enough to have no screening process (GPA and DAT)

Some schools I have heard look through all their applications, but some schools I have heard from ADCOMs don't bother with anyone under a 3.0 / 18 . I'm glad you got into school, but I agree, your situation isn't the norm esp without a postbacc, MS or working experience. You either had connections or you got lucky. Either way, I'm sure you will be a fine dentist, so GOOD WORK!

 

[Oracle DMD]

Thanks for the kind advice. But, 2.9/17 without any post-bac?

I personally think we should call you an exception.

i'm not any more of an exception than someone else out there who is low in numbers. i just want people to know that there is something you can do about it! some people have great numbers but sit around thinking that they are a sure thing ... and it shows. i did the all of the "other things" that get you in. after all is said and done i feel like it was just as or even more important than GPA. what do you think will prepare you for dental school more? 24 hours a week assisting at a dental office or an A+ in Ochem? Visiting dental schools or sending them your secondary and crossing your fingers?
Im just saying, all is not lost if your numbers are not stellar.

 

[Oracle DMD]

Yeah, I agree with Bruinlove. It CAN happen, but it isn't the norm. Most with a 2.9 and 17 on the DATs wouldn't even make it past the "numbers game" to have the rest of their application overviewed. I think a lot of times people with your stats that get accepted either:

1. Have connections to a school or contacted ADCOMs prior to applying or
2. Got lucky enough to have no screening process (GPA and DAT)

Some schools I have heard look through all their applications, but some schools I have heard from ADCOMs don't bother with anyone under a 3.0 / 18 . I'm glad you got into school, but I agree, your situation isn't the norm esp without a postbacc, MS or working experience. You either had connections or you got lucky. Either way, I'm sure you will be a fine dentist, so GOOD WORK!

i spent a couple years as an assistant at a dental office feeling more like an intern than an employee. i soaked up all the info i could. i have NO CONNECTIONS!.

 

[Bruinlove]

Which school accepted you? I'd like to know which school does not have an early screening process.

 

[murff05]

Yeah, I agree with Bruinlove. It CAN happen, but it isn't the norm. Most with a 2.9 and 17 on the DATs wouldn't even make it past the "numbers game" to have the rest of their application overviewed. I think a lot of times people with your stats that get accepted either:

1. Have connections to a school or contacted ADCOMs prior to applying or
2. Got lucky enough to have no screening process (GPA and DAT)

Some schools I have heard look through all their applications, but some schools I have heard from ADCOMs don't bother with anyone under a 3.0 / 18 . I'm glad you got into school, but I agree, your situation isn't the norm esp without a postbacc, MS or working experience. You either had connections or you got lucky. Either way, I'm sure you will be a fine dentist, so GOOD WORK!

How well do connections actually work??

 

[Oracle DMD]

I go to Midwestern. If you are really interested in a school and visit, ask questions, and get involved, than you are meeting the admissions committee members who are making the decisions. maybe they give you a second look, maybe not, but no bad can come from it.

 

[SugarNaCl]

How well do connections actually work??

Um... pretty well sometimes. I mean I'd like to think that schools believe in their products. I was an out of stater who did well at one of VCU's MS programs about 3 yrs before I decided to even go into dentistry and VCU actually puts a different color sticker on your file if you have a connection to the school. My stats weren't horrible in undergrad but they weren't great either... especially Junior year when I really slacked off and had (maybe too much) fun. Obviously now I'm much older and I hope a bit wiser...and married so there you have it School is easier now too that I'm not out all the time.

 

[Shunwei]

I go to Midwestern. If you are really interested in a school and visit, ask questions, and get involved, than you are meeting the admissions committee members who are making the decisions. maybe they give you a second look, maybe not, but no bad can come from it.

Let me congratulate you on getting into a DS. I hope you will have a good experience at Midwestern and become a good dentist.

However, I have to second the posts above about your being the exception rather than the rule, however. While dental school admissions is more than a numbers game, the numbers still count--quite a lot, for that matter. You might have had a great list of EC's, or a kick-***** PS, but I'd rather not mislead the pre-dents here into thinking that this can be pulled off quite easily. Truth is, most schools will not sniff a sub 3.0, 17 DAT applicant without very, very strong incentive.

And I certainly do not advocate anyone to bomb their undergraduate and think that it won't matter, because it will. These grades will go with you for the rest of your life, and rightfully so. So to you predents out there: do your best during undergraduate and the next time you think of partying all night before a big exam, think about the holes you might be digging for yourself that will get in the way of your career aspirations.

 

[Oracle DMD]

Let me congratulate you on getting into a DS. I hope you will have a good experience at Midwestern and become a good dentist.

However, I have to second the posts above about your being the exception rather than the rule, however. While dental school admissions is more than a numbers game, the numbers still count--quite a lot, for that matter. You might have had a great list of EC's, or a kick-***** PS, but I'd rather not mislead the pre-dents here into thinking that this can be pulled off quite easily. Truth is, most schools will not sniff a sub 3.0, 17 DAT applicant without very, very strong incentive.

And I certainly do not advocate anyone to bomb their undergraduate and think that it won't matter, because it will. These grades will go with you for the rest of your life, and rightfully so. So to you predents out there: do your best during undergraduate and the next time you think of partying all night before a big exam, think about the holes you might be digging for yourself that will get in the way of your career aspirations.

having low numbers does NOT mean you were out partying for your entire undergrad. some people do not have the luxury of having mom and dad pay for their school so they can focus on their studies. there are hundreds of different situations that people are dealing with out there to marginalize them as "party people". moreover, people have got to realize what is and what is not possible. everyone will tell a 3.0 , 17 that there is little chance but that is not the case!
To all pre-dents:
there will be plenty of people saying that you will not get in for one reason or another. i am here on SDN to tell you that you can if you put in the work. whether it takes 1 year like me or 4 years like another student i know; you CAN DO IT!
there are plenty of elitists out there who want to keep people down or out of dental school. they might have gone to a "prestigous school" and done very well and maybe they will get in. but who cares about that?!! focus on what YOU can do about YOU. if you want it go get it! people will want to marginalize me as a freak accident or connected. DONT BELIEVE IT! anybody can get into dental school if they really want it and work at it. i can tell you all about. some schools might not give you a golden ticket shot at an interview the first time. thats true. but there are plenty of schools that will. grades do matter. DAT scores matter. no big surprise there. but they ARE NOT THE FINAL SAY on if you get in or if you will be a great dentist.

 

[doc toothache]

Getting in may prove to be the easy part. Making it through 4 years and beyond could be another story.

 

[Shunwei]

having low numbers does NOT mean you were out partying for your entire undergrad. some people do not have the luxury of having mom and dad pay for their school so they can focus on their studies. there are hundreds of different situations that people are dealing with out there to marginalize them as "party people". moreover, people have got to realize what is and what is not possible. everyone will tell a 3.0 , 17 that there is little chance but that is not the case!
To all pre-dents:
there will be plenty of people saying that you will not get in for one reason or another. i am here on SDN to tell you that you can if you put in the work. whether it takes 1 year like me or 4 years like another student i know; you CAN DO IT!
there are plenty of elitists out there who want to keep people down or out of dental school. they might have gone to a "prestigous school" and done very well and maybe they will get in. but who cares about that?!! focus on what YOU can do about YOU. if you want it go get it! people will want to marginalize me as a freak accident or connected. DONT BELIEVE IT! anybody can get into dental school if they really want it and work at it. i can tell you all about. some schools might not give you a golden ticket shot at an interview the first time. thats true. but there are plenty of schools that will. grades do matter. DAT scores matter. no big surprise there. but they ARE NOT THE FINAL SAY on if you get in or if you will be a great dentist.

I think we are (or at least I am) trying to inject a bit of reality into this thread. Yes, it's great that you got into a school with your academic record, but all we are trying to do is to caution folks to not use your example as an instance that happens a lot. We are not trying to argue whether it is a "possible vs. impossible" situation--basically anything and everything is possible; some schools will try to expand the diversity of their student body by accepting lower-stat students with unusual background, life experiences, or just even race. However, hard stats and information (as evidenced by Predents.com), for example, will provide solid proof that stats do matter--a lot--and it is a good idea to not count on exceptional cases like yours. I think that is a fair thing to say.

For the record, I don't think we are being elitist and trying to hold anyone down. While I certainly appreciate the possibility of many college students working during school (for the record, I worked as well, as well as many of my classmates), I still think that a sub 3.0, over a period of four years, is not a good way to prepare oneself for a professional career. It is a good idea for folks to go into undergrad fully aware that their academic performance will matter for a very long time. In the end, it is much better to make oneself as strong as possible without having to rely on other factors. Again, I think that is a fair thing to say.

 

[Oracle DMD]

I think we are (or at least I am) trying to inject a bit of reality into this thread. Yes, it's great that you got into a school with your academic record, but all we are trying to do is to caution folks to not use your example as an instance that happens a lot. We are not trying to argue whether it is a "possible vs. impossible" situation--basically anything and everything is possible; some schools will try to expand the diversity of their student body by accepting lower-stat students with unusual background, life experiences, or just even race. However, hard stats and information (as evidenced by Predents.com), for example, will provide solid proof that stats do matter--a lot--and it is a good idea to not count on exceptional cases like yours. I think that is a fair thing to say.

For the record, I don't think we are being elitist and trying to hold anyone down. While I certainly appreciate the possibility of many college students working during school (for the record, I worked as well, as well as many of my classmates), I still think that a sub 3.0, over a period of four years, is not a good way to prepare oneself for a professional career. It is a good idea for folks to go into undergrad fully aware that their academic performance will matter for a very long time. In the end, it is much better to make oneself as strong as possible without having to rely on other factors. Again, I think that is a fair thing to say.

obviously i dont know you or your situation and am not tryin to attack anyone on this thread personally. however, the reality is there are people who will try to hold you down and tell you that you can't get in. i agree 100% that numbers matter and have said so. but im saying that its not the whole story. "hard numbers" and entry statictics are not as meaningful as you make them seem. did i understand you when you said that "just race" can be the deciding factor if you get in? becareful with that. i hope that is not what you meant.
everyone IS FULLY AWARE of the significants of the numbers. but that isnt the whole story of why people do or do not get in. i am not calling you elitist but how can you say what GPA makes you prepared to be a professional? you said you dont think 3.0 and lower can be as prepared for a career in dentistry as a 3.5? that's ridiculous. and i think that's fair to say. how can a couple of tenths of a point of GPA possibly predict the more prepared dentist? really. people are not numbers, preparedness can not really be quantified.

 

[Shunwei]

obviously i dont know you or your situation and am not tryin to attack anyone on this thread personally. however, the reality is there are people who will try to hold you down and tell you that you can't get in. i agree 100% that numbers matter and have said so. but im saying that its not the whole story. "hard numbers" and entry statictics are not as meaningful as you make them seem. did i understand you when you said that "just race" can be the deciding factor if you get in? becareful with that. i hope that is not what you meant.
everyone IS FULLY AWARE of the significants of the numbers. but that isnt the whole story of why people do or do not get in. i am not calling you elitist but how can you say what GPA makes you prepared to be a professional? you said you dont think 3.0 and lower can be as prepared for a career in dentistry as a 3.5? that's ridiculous. and i think that's fair to say. how can a couple of tenths of a point of GPA possibly predict the more prepared dentist? really. people are not numbers, preparedness can not really be quantified.

I don't think I said that anywhere in my post. However, on that topic I do think that at some point a line should be drawn to determine the academic competence of an individual to prepare for a professional career in healthcare. Not everyone can become a dentist. Dental school is a challenging, difficult four years no matter how you look at it. You will be thrown tons of information, interspersed with lots of exams, some standardized. While many may argue that the GPA is an imperfect measure (which I agree, to some extent, although I can't think of a better alternative at the moment) of academic competence, it still measures how you can handle a full regimen of classes and how you can wield knowledge gained from such an environment. A person who consistently gets a dose of B-'s and C+'s may indicate a weakness in that regard, and might have difficulty dealing with the requirements of a full dental education.

Now, I am not saying that GPA is everything. I have seen quite a few folks on here with sub 3.0 but with stellar DAT scores. In these cases, I am a lot more sympathetic to these folks because it gives better proof of any extenuating circumstances they might have labored under. On the flip side, I have also seen folks who don't do well on the DAT but have good GPAs; in these cases, it might suggest that they are not the best standardized test takers, had a bad day, or whatnot. In either case the situation is a lot more amenable to discussion and debate. However, what conclusion can be drawn from an applicant with a low GPA and less-than-stellar DAT? Personally, the best conclusion I can come up with is that the applicant might not be the best student expected to meet the challenges of DS.

You have to also remember that Dentistry is rapidly becoming a very competitive profession to get into, because of its compensation, lifestyle, autonomy, etc. For this reason, the qualifications of individuals applying to dental schools have gone quite a bit upwards, both in terms of GPA, DAT, and EC's. With this in mind, I believe that the right mentality of an applicant should be to strengthen his or her qualifications as much as possible, especially in the academics. How many folks do you see on here with a sub 3.0 / DAT 17 that got in, and how many were left out? Conversely, how many 3.8 / DAT 22 got in, and how many did not? I think the hard numbers speak for themselves.

In the end, I think your thread is good in a motivational sense: "If I can do it, so can you." However, we don't know enough about your personal details to determine what made you stand out among what must be a legion of applicants with similar stats. Therefore, I think it is important, for the welfare of the predents here (especially those early in their undergrad careers), to remember your story with a caveat, "To try and not get into this situation in the first place."

 

[lphiewok]

I agree 100% with Shunwei.

We do have sub 3.0 club thread where people will post their stories and i believe this should belong there

if you look at accepted stats, some schools will range from e.g. 2.7-3.8 but median would be somewhere along 3.5. Yes, there are people getting in with 2.7 GPA with excellent ECs, and etc., and thanks for giving us a hope (I myself have way below avg. GPA) but I just don't want this thread to make people feel comfortable with 17 DAT and not even try to prepare themselves better.
The biggest motivation I had while I was preparing myself for DAT is the fact that my GPA is too low for dental school so I must excel in DAT to prove my capability and I believe that is what has been pushing me so far.

but once again, thanks for giving advices such as visiting schools and etc.

 

[Oracle DMD]

I don't think I said that anywhere in my post. However, on that topic I do think that at some point a line should be drawn to determine the academic competence of an individual to prepare for a professional career in healthcare. Not everyone can become a dentist. Dental school is a challenging, difficult four years no matter how you look at it. You will be thrown tons of information, interspersed with lots of exams, some standardized. While many may argue that the GPA is an imperfect measure (which I agree, to some extent, although I can't think of a better alternative at the moment) of academic competence, it still measures how you can handle a full regimen of classes and how you can wield knowledge gained from such an environment. A person who consistently gets a dose of B-'s and C+'s may indicate a weakness in that regard, and might have difficulty dealing with the requirements of a full dental education.

Now, I am not saying that GPA is everything. I have seen quite a few folks on here with sub 3.0 but with stellar DAT scores. In these cases, I am a lot more sympathetic to these folks because it gives better proof of any extenuating circumstances they might have labored under. On the flip side, I have also seen folks who don't do well on the DAT but have good GPAs; in these cases, it might suggest that they are not the best standardized test takers, had a bad day, or whatnot. In either case the situation is a lot more amenable to discussion and debate. However, what conclusion can be drawn from an applicant with a low GPA and less-than-stellar DAT? Personally, the best conclusion I can come up with is that the applicant might not be the best student expected to meet the challenges of DS.

You have to also remember that Dentistry is rapidly becoming a very competitive profession to get into, because of its compensation, lifestyle, autonomy, etc. For this reason, the qualifications of individuals applying to dental schools have gone quite a bit upwards, both in terms of GPA, DAT, and EC's. With this in mind, I believe that the right mentality of an applicant should be to strengthen his or her qualifications as much as possible, especially in the academics. How many folks do you see on here with a sub 3.0 / DAT 17 that got in, and how many were left out? Conversely, how many 3.8 / DAT 22 got in, and how many did not? I think the hard numbers speak for themselves.

In the end, I think your thread is good in a motivational sense: "If I can do it, so can you." However, we don't know enough about your personal details to determine what made you stand out among what must be a legion of applicants with similar stats. Therefore, I think it is important, for the welfare of the predents here (especially those early in their undergrad careers), to remember your story with a caveat, "To try and not get into this situation in the first place."

yes. dental school is going to be tough. it will be fast and furious. but anybody can do it. people who don't do the work don't make it. people with lower stats usually dont post them because it makes them feel "less than" or self conscious about themselves. nobody is trying to not get a 4.0 gpa. nobody is trying to not kill the DAT. i just think it is arrogant to say some people can't do it too. i am proud of the B i got in ochem ...it was really hard and i put a lot of work into that B. i am proud of the C i got in electron microscopy because i took the class because i was interested in it and again... it was really hard and i probly over extended myself that semester. and that C factors in to my GPA like it was a pre-dental class! what i'm trying to say is that grades do not HAVE TO determine your life! i worked full time during the summer only had 2 weeks of vacation to take off in order to prepare for the DAT which is supposed to take 300 hours of studying! so i got a 17. so what!! i am very skeptical of people who like to throw around numbers. there are people out there who are every bit as capable as me or you that have scores making it difficult to get in perhaps, but by no means should they run and hide from academic powerhouses that frequent the student doctor network!

 

[dreaming2k5]

Oracle DMD, why can't you understand that you're an exception? That you may have gotten in because they had to fill a certain quota for dumber people like you?

In one of your post, you made references to how some people don't have their mum and dad pay for their tuition etc and thus couldn't get the great scores they needed for dental school - well, have you thought about how some people don't have the luxury to spend time and money getting pre-dent pre-reqs, time off to cram for DAT, tickets and hotel to visit schools, and application fees just so the adcomms get to tell em, "sorry, better luck next year!"

It's a huge investment and leap of faith that people take in order to become a dentist ~ and if they already have a low GPA from previous studies, it's a huge road block and at some point, someone need to tell them, "stop trying, do something else with what you got." For you to encourage people who might be thinking of becoming a dentist but don't have the GPA or the mental capacity to cram for big tests like DAT is just evil.

Besides, it isn't like your advice is anything new. "ooOoo, visit schools and schmooze will get your app a second glance!"

 

[Oracle DMD]

Oracle DMD, why can't you understand that you're an exception? That you may have gotten in because they had to fill a certain quota for dumber people like you?

In one of your post, you made references to how some people don't have their mum and dad pay for their tuition etc and thus couldn't get the great scores they needed for dental school - well, have you thought about how some people don't have the luxury to spend time and money getting pre-dent pre-reqs, time off to cram for DAT, tickets and hotel to visit schools, and application fees just so the adcomms get to tell em, "sorry, better luck next year!"

It's a huge investment and leap of faith that people take in order to become a dentist ~ and if they already have a low GPA from previous studies, it's a huge road block and at some point, someone need to tell them, "stop trying, do something else with what you got." For you to encourage people who might be thinking of becoming a dentist but don't have the GPA or the mental capacity to cram for big tests like DAT is just evil.

Besides, it isn't like your advice is anything new. "ooOoo, visit schools and schmooze will get your app a second glance!"

i feel embarrased for my fellow dental students when they try to corralate numbers to intelligence. are your patients going to be "dumber people like me?" when people give up on their dream of becoming a dentist it is less often a lack of mental capacity and more often the attack of degradation of some of their peers like you. getting into dental school is an accomplishment but not a superhero feat of academic strength. get over yourself.

 

[Oracle DMD]

and to my knowledge dental schools have no quota for dumb people.

 

[PTbecomingDDS]

But, it is one of the few methods schools have to categorize students. Don't get me wrong, I was the only student in my graduate PT program who did not graduate with honors, let alone the only student with a GPA under a 3.5. However, most admissions do take into consideration your activities outside of the classroom. For me, mommy and daddy did not pay for my education and I worked 40-50 hours a week as a delivery driver and volunteered at a hospital 20-30 hours a week while holding a full-time class schedule. I got 5 interviews when I applied, while several of my friends with higher GPA's (significantly higher) did not even get one. So, yes, GPA is not everything but it doesn't hurt as well...better safe than sorry. (I had to explain at each interview the reasons for my below average GPA.)

 

[Andrea368]

That is a very inspirational story, good job! Congrats!

 

[Oracle DMD]

But, it is one of the few methods schools have to categorize students. Don't get me wrong, I was the only student in my graduate PT program who did not graduate with honors, let alone the only student with a GPA under a 3.5. However, most admissions do take into consideration your activities outside of the classroom. For me, mommy and daddy did not pay for my education and I worked 40-50 hours a week as a delivery driver and volunteered at a hospital 20-30 hours a week while holding a full-time class schedule. I got 5 interviews when I applied, while several of my friends with higher GPA's (significantly higher) did not even get one. So, yes, GPA is not everything but it doesn't hurt as well...better safe than sorry. (I had to explain at each interview the reasons for my below average GPA.)

congrats! that's what im talking about. you worked incredibly hard and succeeded. i think dental schools want many people to explain their GPA. why should you explain 3.5?! thats an excellent academic record in my humble opinion. it's not that they want people to always account for their gpa but perhaps the interviewers wanted to see your reaction to having to explain it at all. they wanted to see if you would sweat and squirm or be honest and confidant. good grades will always be important but the definition of "good" grades is also important. what is good? how about a single mother working full time with a 2.8 and a 17 DAT? maybe thats good. or a US Marine who gets out and supports his family while going to night classes. maybe its someone with a learning disability who is a B student but has a 16 DAT. the point is, that everybody has a story. we should all realize how judgemental we can be while throwing around numbers like they are laws of nature. these people are not marginal cases, they are hard working, intelligent, and ambitious. we need to work as a dental or pre-dental student community to stomp out elitism and accept that it might be harder for someto get in, but it is by FAR not impossible.

 

[PTbecomingDDS]

but I was referring to my period of time applying to physical therapy schools...just as competitive as dental school, but I am still playing the waiting game in regard to dental school interviews...I hope this clears up my earlier post...I WISH I HAD 5 INTERVIEWS RIGHT NOW FROM DENTAL SCHOOLS!!!

But I have a sister in law who is a pre-med has a friend that believed working while attend college is not an excuse for a lower (not necessarily low) GPA...of course she is a trust fund baby who never worked a day in her life other than volunteer opportunities to improve her resume...

 

[Oracle DMD]

people who live paycheck to paycheck fighting though school and working full time will disagree. you are right about your sister in law. i have a friend who is a PT. it is also VERY competitive. i agree.

 

[fayew]

I think that there are lots of good pieces of advice in this thread, even despite all the disagreements. Who knows what situations can occur in college - not everyone's experience is the same, and some will have representative GPAs and scores, and some won't (in that the student feels that their GPA represents how well they understood and absorbed the information). I think that its a good message to encourage people to not give up hope with low stats, but to and try and buff your application with extracurriculars and activities that show your passion for dentistry.

At the end of the day, the numbers do matter a lot. And yes, not everyone with below average stats are going to get in. The numbers may be very slim, but aim to be the exceptions

 

[PTbecomingDDS]

A high GPA is more meaningless today than the past. Remember, I am stating a comparison. Studies have shown that the average GPA of undergraduate students has exponentially grown in the past 20-25 years. Do students of today have a higher capacity to learn than past students? No, a follow-up study indicates professors of today are more pressured by students (pre-med, pre-dent, etc) to give out A's...no more bell curve of the past (or basically the curve has shifted to the right). I can relate to this study as I taught undergraduate anatomy and physiology labs. It was ridiculous how many students attempted to argue for a grade change or complained about an exam. When I was an undergrad even a grad student, I never FOUGHT for a grade. I remember one of my classmates in PT school who graduated with honors from undergrad almost always spoke with the profs after an exam regarding her grades (she almost flunked out)...I remember she would always wear a short skirt on those days......but I never been high on GPA's...yes, my GPA in undergrad was below average but I did score in the top 1% on my GRE's...I wish I did the same on the DAT's but I think old age is catching up to me...in the end, I believe if you want something badly enough, you'll find away to obtain it regardless of GPA's and DAT scores...there are so many factors that go into the admission process in my opinion...well, good luck with dental school...Hopefully, I will be in your position 2009!

 

[Gbrando2]

Oracle DMD, why can't you understand that you're an exception? That you may have gotten in because they had to fill a certain quota for dumber people like you?

You, my friend, are an @sshole. Seriously, someone who has a sub-3.5 is now just a dumb quota filler? F$#@ you.

 

[dru180]

I don't think OracleDMD is saying GPA/DAT isnt important....not at all. If its so late in the game that you cant bring it up a significant amount, you arn't necessarily out of the game is what he is alluding to (if im putting the correct words into his mouth)! You are just going to have rock out in areas that you can improve, and impress adcoms that way. Be tenacious and its possible. He did it, and so can other people. There is hope. Thats all he is saying. Lets not nitpick (or go off subject to a philosophical debate about the correlation between numbers and intelligence).

And in spirit of that, im going to stop procrastinating and get back to studying for my final.....uggh

 

[Oracle DMD]

exactly.

 

[dreaming2k5]

You, my friend, are an @sshole. Seriously, someone who has a sub-3.5 is now just a dumb quota filler? F$#@ you.

The man got sub-3.0 ~ that's another category buddy. 3.0-3.5 is fine by my book.

 

[Oracle DMD]

3.1 is far superior to 2.9? wow.

 

[Oracle DMD]

where are you going to dental school? i gotta know so i can tell my friends there.

 

[SHC1984]

Oracle DMD, why can't you understand that you're an exception? That you may have gotten in because they had to fill a certain quota for dumber people like you?

In one of your post, you made references to how some people don't have their mum and dad pay for their tuition etc and thus couldn't get the great scores they needed for dental school - well, have you thought about how some people don't have the luxury to spend time and money getting pre-dent pre-reqs, time off to cram for DAT, tickets and hotel to visit schools, and application fees just so the adcomms get to tell em, "sorry, better luck next year!"

It's a huge investment and leap of faith that people take in order to become a dentist ~ and if they already have a low GPA from previous studies, it's a huge road block and at some point, someone need to tell them, "stop trying, do something else with what you got." For you to encourage people who might be thinking of becoming a dentist but don't have the GPA or the mental capacity to cram for big tests like DAT is just evil.

Besides, it isn't like your advice is anything new. "ooOoo, visit schools and schmooze will get your app a second glance!"

, I agree with you completely. Dental schools will accept only the best however sometimes they need to accept URM etc b/c they have to fill in quotas....the OP proberly got into Meharry or Howard.

 

[Gbrando2]

The man got sub-3.0 ~ that's another category buddy. 3.0-3.5 is fine by my book.

I have a sub-3.0 once AADSAS gets to it, so my previous statement still stands, chief.

 

[Oracle DMD]

, I agree with you completely. Dental schools will accept only the best however sometimes they need to accept URM etc b/c they have to fill in quotas....the OP proberly got into Meharry or Howard.

charming. is there somthing wrong w/ meharry or howard? you should be embarassed.

 

[dreaming2k5]

I have a sub-3.0 once AADSAS gets to it, so my previous statement still stands, chief.

Sucks to be you. Good luck at being an exception too then. And yes, 3.0 is superior to 2.9 ~ because at that point, most computers don't weed whack out you of system automatically and reducing your chance at being accepted greatly.

 

[topdent1]

charming. is there somthing wrong w/ meharry or howard? you should be embarassed.

I agree, that was horribly said.

On another note, what does it actually mean to have connections? Just because the asst. dean of admissions knows you by face and name means you have connections?! Or are you referring connections as in 'my dad is the dean of the school'?

 

[Oracle DMD]

Sucks to be you. Good luck at being an exception too then. And yes, 3.0 is superior to 2.9 ~ because at that point, most computers don't weed whack out you of system automatically and reducing your chance at being accepted greatly.

hey dreaming2k5! i did some research. your posts say all there is to say about you huh? what a jerk. boston is it? i hope people read some of your other posts from the last couple of years. you seem to have a history of bashing peoples stats and even saying that its not OK to be a hygienist if you're a guy?! wow. you are an embarassment to that institution. you're a cyber tough guy. haha pathetic. must be compensating.

 

[Oracle DMD]

I agree, that was horribly said.

On another note, what does it actually mean to have connections? Just because the asst. dean of admissions knows you by face and name means you have connections?! Or are you referring connections as in 'my dad is the dean of the school'?

connections in this sense would mean you know someone who can get you in or even an interview. as such i have never had any kind of connection.

 

[SugarNaCl]

connections in this sense would mean you know someone who can get you in or even an interview. as such i have never had any kind of connection.

Connections in general doesn't necessarily mean you know an ADCOM member by name etc. It means you have a connection to the school as in you went there for undergrad or grad school ... or has a parent that is faculty even if not in the dental program etc.

I had a "connection" to VCU. I got my MS there. I knew NO ONE from the dental school and I have no dentists or physicians in my family.

 

[topdent1]

Connections in general doesn't necessarily mean you know an ADCOM member by name etc. It means you have a connection to the school as in you went there for undergrad or grad school ... or has a parent that is faculty even if not in the dental program etc.

I had a "connection" to VCU. I got my MS there. I knew NO ONE from the dental school and I have no dentists or physicians in my family.

ahh..so there are levels of connections. And here I am thinking that professional school politics are kept at a minimum.

 

[amalgamgrillz]

hey dreaming2k5! i did some research. your posts say all there is to say about you huh? what a jerk. boston is it? i hope people read some of your other posts from the last couple of years. you seem to have a history of bashing peoples stats and even saying that its not OK to be a hygienist if you're a guy?! wow. you are an embarassment to that institution. you're a cyber tough guy. haha pathetic. must be compensating.

its awesome to hear that admission is not solely based on whether or not you have a 3.0+ GPA...yah your chances go down if you have a low GPA, but who said it didnt? oracle is simply giving a sense of hope to those with a low GPA..he/she's not promising that everyone with a Sub 3.0 is going to be ok and get into dental school. So if you dont want to hear the success story of a sub 3.0, then don't read it..stop trying to scare "dumber" applicants away from applying to dental school.

 

[NewMexDent]

Here's how I see it - not everyone who wants to go to dental school can go to dental school - there's just not enough spots. Numbers (DAT, GPA) are the easiest way to distinguish applicants - and for good reason. Students who have performed poorly in undergrad or on the DAT can't necessarily be expected to handle the rigorous curriculum at dental school.

But, if a student is able to show by their extracurricular that they can handle the rigours of dental school, numbers can be overlooked.

It really has nothing to do with elitism. Dental school is difficult and accepting students is a huge investment on the schools/professions’ behalf. If a student can't handle the coursework and flunks out of dental school than the school has lost out on it's investment.

If a school accepts a student with a pattern of poor performance in undergrad they are taking a slightly higher risk and putting a lot of faith in that student to succeed. Just don't let them down.

 

[SugarNaCl]

ahh..so there are levels of connections. And here I am thinking that professional school politics are kept at a minimum.

LOL... Did I just state the obvious?

 

[dentstd]

What's your nationality, Oracle?

And I'd be very careful how you state your claims, because you've said some things that are outright silly, and they hurt your credibility. Or at the least, they call into question your sense of judgment. For example, you said it's "ridiculous" to say that a person with a 3.5 is more prepared for professional school than one with a 3.0. The problem is... that's the result of a national study conducted by the NIH on dental admissions. The 3.5 is expected to perform significantly better than the 3.0, granted that the coursework level is comparable.

And fyi, there IS a quota set aside for students with low numbers. Schools purposely try to expand the score range as wide as they possibly can. They want the lowest score to be significantly low, because it conveys that they're not looking at only numbers. However, the percentage of students with these low scores is very small. The lowest DAT in the country last year that got accepted was a 13AA, to my knowledge. Of course, there is an abundance of students with low scores, so as admissions is trying to determine who to accept, they usually look at the story behind the student. Working single mothers is a potential storyline. Chances are, Oracle's acceptance falls into this type of acceptance.

But you've got a big challenge in front of you. Years and years of research state that zero percent of students with low admissions statistics ever perform near/at the top of the class. Given your numbers, the expectation is that you'll never perform that well. You'll likely have zero chances to specialize unless you're a URM. Good luck to you.

 

[Bruinlove]

I think mods should close this thread now. This is getting very ugly.

 

[Oracle DMD]

What's your nationality, Oracle?

And I'd be very careful how you state your claims, because you've said some things that are outright silly, and they hurt your credibility. Or at the least, they call into question your sense of judgment. For example, you said it's "ridiculous" to say that a person with a 3.5 is more prepared for professional school than one with a 3.0. The problem is... that's the result of a national study conducted by the NIH on dental admissions. The 3.5 is expected to perform significantly better than the 3.0, granted that the coursework level is comparable.

And fyi, there IS a quota set aside for students with low numbers. Schools purposely try to expand the score range as wide as they possibly can. They want the lowest score to be significantly low, because it conveys that they're not looking at only numbers. However, the percentage of students with these low scores is very small. The lowest DAT in the country last year that got accepted was a 13AA, to my knowledge. Of course, there is an abundance of students with low scores, so as admissions is trying to determine who to accept, they usually look at the story behind the student. Working single mothers is a potential storyline. Chances are, Oracle's acceptance falls into this type of acceptance.

But you've got a big challenge in front of you. Years and years of research state that zero percent of students with low admissions statistics ever perform near/at the top of the class. Given your numbers, the expectation is that you'll never perform that well. You'll likely have zero chances to specialize unless you're a URM. Good luck to you.

sorry to bust your bubble. i'm a white man. i know it's tough to take with all of those math and english lessons you've been giving me. haha my typing must start to falter after rebutting 15-20 of you elitist dental students that are so proud of your undergrad numbers. why are you in the pre-dental forum anyways? i just got in and want to spread a little hope and optimism about my little success and here are all of you trying to stop me. huh. a bunch of bigots who expect me to be of some non-white ethnicity and/or a woman. its laughable. how could i of such small numbers compete with such an academic dynamo such as you?! wow. you are like 2 years ahead of people applying right this second and are that far superior? you are an elitist. stop hiding behind your computer and come out and say it. pathetic. thats why the suicide rate for dentists is so high! everytime someone "so inferior" gets a higher test score you jump off a bridge! you are an embarassment.

 

[paul510psu]

Pretty pathetic guys. Come on.

The OP may be an exception, but he managed to get accepted. He's just trying to give lower stat people some heads-up that they may have to work a little harder to get in.

Good luck to everyone with the process!

 

[dreaming2k5]

hey dreaming2k5! i did some research. your posts say all there is to say about you huh? what a jerk.

Hey, good job at researching my past posts. Why don't you post them so they're easily accessible? As far as I'm concerned - I'm just stating the truth as I see it and I'm certainly okay that they don't sit well with you.

i feel embarrased for my fellow dental students when they try to corralate numbers to intelligence.

You shouldn't be embarrassed. I'd like it if my PCP is as intelligent as humanly possible in terms of numbers. I mean, do you really want your PCP to be scraping by med school because he gotta work the night shift? Do you really want him to treat you only because he is passionate about being a MD but had to miss class or be tardy because he had "special" situations? I remember a guy posting for help on what he can do to stay in school even though he was failing due to some learning disability ~ and I remember posting strongly about how wonderful it was that the dental school was kicking him out. Because seriously ~ do we need special needs people treating other humans?

I do believe we are a special group of people. I believe we need to be as elite as possible because we're handling people's health. To be honest, I'm not too happy that our school is ranked 3rd from the bottom in terms of GPA. I'm not too happy that curriculum is becoming easier every year because dental schools are worried about presenting a good graduating rate. Did I mention in my other posts that our pharmacology used to be cumulative, but because too many people flunk out, they changed it? Sure, it made my life 110% easier, but for the profession as a whole, the course director did a huge disservice for everyone.

Look at all the different schools going to "Pass vs Fail" instead of weighing people on a scale and forcing them to be competitive. Everyone gets to pass! You don't have to memorize this or that anymore ~ because it's all on Google! You don't have to learn that, because you can just post a handy reference card on the cabinet! Etc, etc.

Let me be honest here ~ I'm not smart. In fact, I'm stupid in comparison to my roommates. Last semester, we had Oral Dx and Radiology. For the cumulative final, we had to know how to identify different cysts, tumors, growth, etc on a radiograph (bitewing, PA, pano, etc). I studied pretty hard and I scraped by with a B-. My roommates studied about the same and got As. When I reflect on such, I feel as if I'm not supposed to be a dentist. When I try to think back on different drug names, and different pathologies - and my mind comes up blank... I feel incompetent. For the record, the two years that I studied pre-dent, my GPA was 3.9 and I had 24 for AA/TS.

When I think about someone like you who got a 2.9 and 17 on DAT joining our ranks and encouraging others of the same caliber to apply, I feel hopeless because you're glaring evidence that dentists are becoming dumber. And if my cyber ego can convince you to quit and become a garbage man, I'd sleep more soundly tonight.