What jobs make more than doctors?

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To clarify: As of last year's tax returns: $506K/year household income is the cutoff for the top 1% of earners in the US.

Yes, there are people in that 1% that make WAY more; but earning $500k a year makes you better off financially than 99% of the people in this country.

End of discussion.

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Actually I hear it's the spinal surgeons that make the most: orthopedics and neurosurgery.
The retinal surgeon at my hospital makes more than either of those two, and it's in the seven figure range. I was surprised to hear that.
 
To clarify: As of last year's tax returns: $506K/year household income is the cutoff for the top 1% of earners in the US.

Yes, there are people in that 1% that make WAY more; but earning $500k a year makes you better off financially than 99% of the people in this country.

End of discussion.

:thumbup: exactly.
 
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"ok at best" lol oh SDN. you're saying $500k/year is not filthy rich? Have you ever known someone that brings in this much in real life? If you're smart that can be used to make more.
It isn't filthy rich. Filthy rich is buying Gulfstreams, yachts and Manhattan penthouses. $500K/year is nowhere near that. It's a lot of money, but it's so far from the top that calling it filthy rich is just ridiculous. Don't forget to shave off half of it for taxes.
 
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To clarify: As of last year's tax returns: $506K/year household income is the cutoff for the top 1% of earners in the US.

Yes, there are people in that 1% that make WAY more; but earning $500k a year makes you better off financially than 99% of the people in this country.

End of discussion.
It's still not filthy rich. It's "nice house, maybe vacation house or at least a time share, a Porsche, a Lexus, nice vacations to Europe, private schools for the kids, and a housekeeper."

Filthy rich is landing your helicopter on your yacht parked in the Mediterranean. ;)
 
It's still not filthy rich. It's "nice house, maybe vacation house or at least a time share, a Porsche, a Lexus, nice vacations to Europe, private schools for the kids, and a housekeeper."

Filthy rich is landing your helicopter on your yacht parked in the Mediterranean. ;)

Doesn't matter if the rich is filthy or not because more then likely none of us will be that rich as it requires a lot of luck. So as far as normal people go 500K could be considered pretty filthy. :laugh:
 
Doesn't matter if the rich is filthy or not because more then likely none of us will be that rich as it requires a lot of luck.

That type of thinking will keep anyone firmly in the 99%
 
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What if I win the lottery?

I would reckon that was from the intensity with which you drove to the gas station and the determination in slamming your 2$ onto the table.
 
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It's still not filthy rich. It's "nice house, maybe vacation house or at least a time share, a Porsche, a Lexus, nice vacations to Europe, private schools for the kids, and a housekeeper."

Filthy rich is landing your helicopter on your yacht parked in the Mediterranean. ;)

THANK YOU. I thought what I was saying was common sense information and not controversial but apparently not that many people know how salaries and taxes work. Thank you for being a voice of reason.
 
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Protip:

If you craft a life based on things you enjoy(career, wife with a good personality, etc.) you'll be a lot happier than if you craft life based on superficial things(money, hot wife, etc).
 
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When you take a step back, 500K a year is not filthy rich. It is at the top range of upper middle class.

LOL. Out of touch some? Even if you're making 100k people will think you have a lot of money, considering the average american salary is like 40-50k. 500k might not be "filthy rich" like a celebrity, but you're pretty damn rich.
 
500k is not middle class. Even after taxes that's over 300,000 a year. Basically you could buy a house in cash every year with that much and still have enough to live on. Middle class struggle just to keep one home.
 
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THANK YOU. I thought what I was saying was common sense information and not controversial but apparently not that many people know how salaries and taxes work. Thank you for being a voice of reason.

I'm pretty sure whether or not a particular sum of money is "filthy rich" or not is a subjective evaluation. If you grew up with parents who made $500k + a year, OP, then it's not going to be filthy rich to you. I grew up with parents who cleared $35k combined, so while I might be hesitant to classify $500k as "filthy" rich, it is certainly wealthy in my eyes. Objectively, I think $500k would put a family very firmly in the upper middle class, and tentatively in the upper class, depending on where you live.
 
Dentists, drug lords, rockstars, the president, professional athletes, very successful strippers (seriously), some waiters in LA (seriously)....
 
You can find outliers in every profession. The thing is that the norm for doctors is much higher than any other profession.

And secondly, if you want to make the big bucks, you have to put the work in. Very, very few professions work 40 hrs/week and pull in big money. You think big shot CEOs and lawyers and MBAs got to where they are by working 40 hours a week? They worked their asses off big time. To make partner as a lawyer, you need to put in 80-100 hour weeks. To make a company succeed, even a convienance store, you need to put in 80-100 hours a week. It's only after decades of this level of work that you can sit back and reap the benefits.

That's something I never understand when reading posts discouraging people from pursuing medicine - again not that anyone should do it for the money, but they compare physician's hours to those that they make more in business... but really those wall-street investors/investment bankers, business owners, CEOs put in just as many if not more hours than physicians... Yeah they may make more, but you can curtail your practice as a physician to fit your lifestyle.

Also - being a physician doesn't exclude you from investing... you are just as able to find good opportunities as the next business guy - they may have better connections and savvy, but if you invest in retirement accounts and taxable accounts, you end up very well-off.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

* Sorry - just realized I commented on a 2-3 year old thread. :zombie:
 
That's something I never understand when reading posts discouraging people from pursuing medicine - again not that anyone should do it for the money, but they compare physician's hours to those that they make more in business... but really those wall-street investors/investment bankers, business owners, CEOs put in just as many if not more hours than physicians... Yeah they may make more, but you can curtail your practice as a physician to fit your lifestyle.

Also - being a physician doesn't exclude you from investing... you are just as able to find good opportunities as the next business guy - they may have better connections and savvy, but if you invest in retirement accounts and taxable accounts, you end up very well-off.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

* Sorry - just realized I commented on a 2-3 year old thread. :zombie:

That moment when everyone realizes... :p
 
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Any successful entrepreneur, business owner, investment banker, broker, wall st, and even some engineers can make more. However trust me, you only have one life. Spend it doing something you thoroughly enjoy and is productive to society.

A few high school colleagues of mine created a start up in California, and are doing great. However they had a thirst for that kind of stuff. Same goes for anything.
 
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Strong necro bump.

Top executives (CEOs, CFOs, CTOs, CAOs, etc) frequently make more money than physicians. Given that there are 2.3 million such positions in the country, with only around 700k physicians, these jobs aren't exactly rare. Investment banking, small business ownership, and commercial or multiunit real estate endeavors can net more income than physicians make if you end up successful. Certain engineering fields can have you earning top dollar ten years earlier than a physician. CRNAs outearn many of the lower paid physician specialties, and can finish training much sooner, allowing for significant additional time to invest, as well as much less debt.

This excludes all the pure luck+talent fields like acting, sports, writing novels, being a director, and all the related garbage that can land you more money than a physician will ever make if you just happen to be spotted at the right time or resonate with the current times in a way that makes you famous.

All paths but the CRNA one are much riskier, and typically require one to be creative, motivated, willing to take chances, and sometimes more than a good deal of luck. Medicine is for the risk averse, that want a good income but none of the uncertainty that goes with pursuing the other high income careers out there. Many physicians are the sort that aren't creative enough and lack the skills to run their own small business, which is the real way to make a killing if you are so inclined. The physicians that are capable of such endeavors typically do so within a medical context- think "medical spas" and "medical weight loss centers"- which allows them to do quite well for themselves, but they likely would have established a successful business even had they not pursued medicine.

In a nutshell, for the financially inclined, medicine is for you if you desire a high income and are risk averse (don't want to risk not making it up the corporate ladder, investing in a bad business etc), do not feel you could successfully manage a small business (poor marketing skills, no product or niche ideas, don't want the headaches of dealing with payroll etc that many physicians today can sidestep by joining groups or hospitals) but are otherwise very bright. It's pretty much the only field left where brains and hard work=financial success in the end with very little chance of things going bad along the way once you're in.
 
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Any successful entrepreneur, business owner, investment banker, broker, wall st, and even some engineers can make more. However trust me, you only have one life. Spend it doing something you thoroughly enjoy and is productive to society.

A few high school colleagues of mine created a start up in California, and are doing great. However they had a thirst for that kind of stuff. Same goes for anything.
You do realize that absolute majority of people starting their own business fails. Maybe they just liked it less or were less committed? Lol
 
President of The United States Of America.
 
You do realize that absolute majority of people starting their own business fails. Maybe they just liked it less or were less committed? Lol
Where do I imply that it's easy or the success or fail rate? Of course starting a business is difficult. That's why not anyone can do it. I have the absolute respect for successful business owners.

People assume they have a good idea, VC's or angel investors will flock them. In reality, your business or business model has to already be generating great revenue to even be a possibility to get funded at that level.
 
Where do I imply that it's easy or the success or fail rate? Of course starting a business is difficult. That's why not anyone can do it. I have the absolute respect for successful business owners.

People assume they have a good idea, VC's or angel investors will flock them. In reality, your business or business model has to already be generating great revenue to even be a possibility to get funded at that level.
Exactly. People end up burning through not only their saving and credit cards but also those of their family and friends.
 
Strong necro bump.

Top executives (CEOs, CFOs, CTOs, CAOs, etc) frequently make more money than physicians. Given that there are 2.3 million such positions in the country, with only around 700k physicians, these jobs aren't exactly rare. Investment banking, small business ownership, and commercial or multiunit real estate endeavors can net more income than physicians make if you end up successful. Certain engineering fields can have you earning top dollar ten years earlier than a physician. CRNAs outearn many of the lower paid physician specialties, and can finish training much sooner, allowing for significant additional time to invest, as well as much less debt.

This excludes all the pure luck+talent fields like acting, sports, writing novels, being a director, and all the related garbage that can land you more money than a physician will ever make if you just happen to be spotted at the right time or resonate with the current times in a way that makes you famous.

All paths but the CRNA one are much riskier, and typically require one to be creative, motivated, willing to take chances, and sometimes more than a good deal of luck. Medicine is for the risk averse, that want a good income but none of the uncertainty that goes with pursuing the other high income careers out there. Many physicians are the sort that aren't creative enough and lack the skills to run their own small business, which is the real way to make a killing if you are so inclined. The physicians that are capable of such endeavors typically do so within a medical context- think "medical spas" and "medical weight loss centers"- which allows them to do quite well for themselves, but they likely would have established a successful business even had they not pursued medicine.

In a nutshell, for the financially inclined, medicine is for you if you desire a high income and are risk averse (don't want to risk not making it up the corporate ladder, investing in a bad business etc), do not feel you could successfully manage a small business (poor marketing skills, no product or niche ideas, don't want the headaches of dealing with payroll etc that many physicians today can sidestep by joining groups or hospitals) but are otherwise very bright. It's pretty much the only field left where brains and hard work=financial success in the end with very little chance of things going bad along the way once you're in.
ImageUploadedBySDN Mobile1391718115.799897.jpg

Top 1% by profession.

There is another dimension not mentioned here. There is a glass ceiling for many people to get to those coveted positions as CEO, CFO, etc. Many of these jobs, especially in smaller firms, are given to family and friends or distributed within the old boy network.
 
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A decent amount...after all it's not like physician is the career to go to for oodles of cash money. However, being a physician is one job where you can access a higher than average living without being intelligent, good at complex science, or have to go to an Ivy league/Top whatever school. :D
 
I'm going to back up nygiants fan and say that my dad (physician) rakes in 400ish annually before taxes. We're not filthy rich. All of our money is in our house and one nice car. I currently go to a public school and have no problems paying off tuition, but had I gone to a private school, they'd have a tough time paying for my younger siblings' tuition. We're well off, and we're top 1%, but the term "filthy rich" is quite subjective. Average salary for ppl in my town is 250k+, but everyone calls themselves upper middle class.
 
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Damn, 250K is the average salary? That's like the 1% in all of the places I've lived at :O
 
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Small town, middle aged caucasians primarily. plenty of doctors, lawyers, prominent businessmen and politicians. As an example of the types of people that live in my town, I know the son of the American ambassador to Australia, and my brother knows a relative of the guy who owns Men's Warehouse.
 
Damn I wish I "had no problem" paying for tuition. My parents couldn't help with a dime.
 
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I'm going to back up nygiants fan and say that my dad (physician) rakes in 400ish annually before taxes. We're not filthy rich. All of our money is in our house and one nice car. I currently go to a public school and have no problems paying off tuition, but had I gone to a private school, they'd have a tough time paying for my younger siblings' tuition. We're well off, and we're top 1%, but the term "filthy rich" is quite subjective. Average salary for ppl in my town is 250k+, but everyone calls themselves upper middle class.

I think trying to pin down one definition of "filthy rich" will never happen. When I think filthy rich, I think: Money is no object. Pretty much can spend on any sensible or even many senseless items and not have to worry about lifestyle. However, even if physicians don't all fit into the 'filthy rich' category, clearly they're one of the most affluent groups in America and they will not suffer from the same kinds of financial hardship that the vast majority of Americans will face.
 
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Nice graph.

I found a Washington Post blog entry that says, "the top 1 percent of American households had a minimum income of $516,633 in 2010". Most physicians will not be in the top 1%.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-1-percenters/2011/10/06/gIQAn4JDQL_blog.html

I suppose you can find differing data (trying another google search for more recent data). Anyway - I agree with your last statement on the glass ceiling - makes total sense.
 
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As someone a few posts ahead mentioned, the "old boy" club and family will keep the vast majority of high-end CEO, CFO, end of year bonus of 7 figures. etc jobs in hand.

Ways for the average Joe to POSSIBLY get a better average financial haul that physicans are mainly limited to inventing something, discovering something in science, starting your own business, or busting your butt in the right company and getting managerial status.

It's all possible, but the perfect storm has to accompany you. Right invention, not failing in business, right company. For every lightening-struck winner there are 1000's of smart people working hard and making 40-80K a year.

Extreme talent in sports, dance, acting or something and a dash of luck can make it happen also, but odds of any of that are all on par with the lottery.
 
Congressman. You never lose your job and you can vote for your own raises.

This is completely misguided.

1. Congressman can lose their jobs through elections.
2. Ability to change your salary is dependent on an intervening election in accordance with the 27th Amendment which provides that "[n]o law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened."
 
This is completely misguided.

1. Congressman can lose their jobs through elections.
2. Ability to change your salary is dependent on an intervening election in accordance with the 27th Amendment which provides that "[n]o law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened."

I believe he was being tongue in cheek.

Anyone who follows politics knows it's incredibly difficult to defeat an incumbent. They have more money, backing, and clout. Incumbents have a 94% chance of being re-elected. Yes, you can lose your job, but 94% of the time you're keeping it lol.
 
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I believe he was being tongue in cheek.

Anyone who follows politics knows it's incredibly difficult to defeat an incumbent. They have more money, backing, and clout. Incumbents have a 94% chance of being re-elected. Yes, you can lose your job, but 94% of the time you're keeping it lol.
Yup. Even Rob Ford still enjoys 40% approval ratings, granted its Canada.
 
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Nice graph.

I found a Washington Post blog entry that says, "the top 1 percent of American households had a minimum income of $516,633 in 2010". Most physicians will not be in the top 1%.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-1-percenters/2011/10/06/gIQAn4JDQL_blog.html

I suppose you can find differing data (trying another google search for more recent data). Anyway - I agree with your last statement on the glass ceiling - makes total sense.
Exactly.

I did rudimentary calculations. About 140 mil Americans work. 1.4 mil then is 1% of income earners. 15% of 1.4 is about 230k. 230k/700k (number of doctors) and you get about 30% of physicians are 1%. Since I used google and guestimation, the true number is probably somewhere between 20-40%.

Edit: I could imagine most physicians who are 1% are probably pretty close to the threshold of being considered one percent given that the average income for those is somewhere near 3.7 mil (NYC number). Although It's not unreasonable to assume that out of 700k doctors about 50-100k is actually taking home several millions per year. Those are people with active parents, entrepreneurs, etc.
 
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Yes I do. The 2 people that brought me into this world and are making sure that I graduate without any debt. Get your head out of the clouds for a moment. When you take a step back, 500K a year is not filthy rich. It is at the top range of upper middle class. High level pro athletes that make 10-30 million a year? CEOs? They are the wealthy ones. Eli Manning could retire right now and be fine for the rest of his life. Tom Brady tore his ACL once and did not work (play football) for an entire year and he still brought home millions. If my parents were injured and were unable to work for a year, we would be screwed to say the least. You're acting like a mid 6 figure salary is an unobtainable sum.
500k/year--upper middle class? Are you serious? That is not filthy rich by any means, but that is rich in my book.
 
500k/year--upper middle class? Are you serious? That is not filthy rich by any means, but that is rich in my book.
Depends on how you live. Many doctors live paycheck to paycheck on that kind of money: couple million dollar house, a few children going to private prep schools or universities, luxury cars, a vacation home, etc. If you define "rich" as "not having to work," you could easily live a modest life for 10-20 years, put a couple million bucks into savings/investments, and live off the interest/gains for the rest of your life without ever having to work again.
 
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Depends on how you live. Many doctors live paycheck to paycheck on that kind of money: couple million dollar house, a few children going to private prep schools or universities, luxury cars, a vacation home, etc. If you define "rich" as "not having to work," you could easily live a modest life for 10-20 years, put a couple million bucks into savings/investments, and live off the interest/gains for the rest of your life without ever having to work again.
I do know that... If people choose to be crazy with their money, that is another thing. But someone or a family who is taking home about 25k/month is rich (not filthy rich).
 
A six figure salary is hard to impossible for like 80 percent of Americans...
 
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Depends on how you live. Many doctors live paycheck to paycheck on that kind of money: couple million dollar house, a few children going to private prep schools or universities, luxury cars, a vacation home, etc. If you define "rich" as "not having to work," you could easily live a modest life for 10-20 years, put a couple million bucks into savings/investments, and live off the interest/gains for the rest of your life without ever having to work again.

All of those things are "assets". They retain, gain, or lose value. Thus, even if you are living "paycheck to paycheck" you are rich because at any moment you can liquidate those assets.
 
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