what kind of kids were you?

[MSKalltheway]

I took all ap classes, and flunked a lot of hs classes senior year i missed oh 47 days in the year, but i passed every single ap test i took... i got a 1480 with a perfect on the math... so far in college nothing but A's, even organic chemistry

know why? cause i learned college cost a !$#$ ton and if im paying for it i mind as well go

Its great that you turned it around and kept your GPA up, I tip my hat to you. I didn't mean to say its not possible, or that if you don't do so hot in HS then you never can in college, but usually hard work is a habit. I only mean to say that hard work gets you into med school even before smarts - you can train a monkey to do half this stuff. So if you're busting your butt in college and doing well, that's what matters. But in my experience, those who did not work hard in HS didn't get very far, because they never applied themselves later also.

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[rgarrig]

but when that kid with the 850 SAT 2.0 high school GPA in idiot classes asks me if he can one day be a doctor, i find myself really thinking...can he turn it around? you can't just motivate them, you really need someone on their ass constantly until hard work and success become a part of who they are.

what do you guys think, what are your experiences?

I was in the bottom quarter of my high school class, graduated with something like 2.7, and even dropped out of college after my first year. Then I wised up, went back to school, demolished all that was erected before me, graduated with honors, research experience, great LORs, crushed the MCAT (39), and I am now doing well at at a top 10 US MD school.

There are a TON of valid reasons for a young person to under perform in school and business...

Some kids just don't have proper guidance/parental figures and need time to figure things out on their own, and some kids have a LOT of adversity to overcome (e.g. abusive family life, health problems, PTSD/mental problems, etc.). Other kids are just dip$hits until they've held a job, learned a bit about the real world, and discover that working hard in school and your profession ultimately serves YOU, not your parents, friends, teachers, but YOU.

I give a person until about 25 or so before I am ready to draw any conclusions about potential and ability. It is, of course, a very gray area, but prior to that age, there are just way too many potentially surmountable road blocks a young person may be up against, and you never know when as little as a single event can act as a watershed in a young person's life to totally turn things around and allow him or her to start performing at maximal levels. I've seen it happen enough times to be sure of this.

Some of the most interesting people I know have unique backgrounds filled with uphill struggles, setbacks and detours, and all other manner of distractions and obstacles that, once surpassed, strengthened the person and won him or her exactly what was needed to meet with striking professional success.

 

[Re3iRtH]

oftentimes a relative will bring their kid to me and ask me if they think their kid has a shot at medical school. it got me thinking, what kind of kids were all you guys?

i'm talking generally in the 7th-11th grade type. hardworking? joker who did well? hard worker who didnt mind letting a few B's slip? class comedian?

i have a theory that in order to make it this far, hard work cant be something your just willing to put up with, but rather an embedded part of your personality, so my proposed theory is that everyone on this forum was quite successful as a high school/junior high schooler. the college turn-around is a rare exception.

i'm not saying that high school *****s shouldnt go for their dreams. hell, there are always exceptions, so why not you? but when that kid with the 850 SAT 2.0 high school GPA in idiot classes asks me if he can one day be a doctor, i find myself really thinking...can he turn it around? you can't just motivate them, you really need someone on their ass constantly until hard work and success become a part of who they are.

what do you guys think, what are your experiences?

Just as a personal tidbit, I had a ~2.55GPA in high school. Complete
slacker with no motivation for a career.
And here I am in medical school, and loving it
So yes, you can easily turn it around in college if you
find something you are passionate (or can fake it) about.

 

[wanabdoc]

i'm talking generally in the 7th-11th grade type. hardworking? joker who did well? hard worker who didnt mind letting a few B's slip? class comedian?

Class comedian? More like class cynic/realist. I only worked hard enough to get an A, nothing more (to be fair, it wasn't so hard in my situation, it wasn't that competitive and all you had to do was to be the top of the curve right?!)

In HS, I swore on my mothers life I would never be a doctor, although everyone told me I should.

I didn't even know the SATs existed until 2nd semester of 11th grade (da** extremely religious school,) but managed to catch up.

Hard Working? In my freshman year of college, my final essay was on how being a slacker was ultimately more rewarding than being highly motivated and successful.

 

[DBR]

I was a bad student in high school, but got into med school. I am still in the process of reforming my old bad habits and will likely have a relative increase in achievement in med school compared to undergrad.

Most people that I know of that got into med school were at least ok students in highschool. There are plenty of people that are like "yeah i was a bad student" but then have a 3.9/4 hs gpa... Yes, we know highschool was easy, but you were in fact a good student as your GPA indicates. You wouldnt have a 3.9 if you didnt do you homework at least. Not turning in your homework at my school at least resutled in a grad of 0%.

 

[erasable]

Deleted

 

[Slide]

I was such a slacker in high school, I could never break into the 99% percentile of the SAT, I settled for 90% like a true lazy bum. My slacking almost cost me going to one of the colleges I wanted to go to. I was told many times I would never make it because my work ethic was too good. It got even worse in college, I slacked sooo hard my GPA went down to a 3.2! Can you believe that? My goodness, my counselors told me I would never make it because my MCAT wasn't a 76! They thought I would never make it because I was too much of a slacker, but that was ok, people regarded me as cool and hip because of my slacking attitudes. Now I've turned that around and I'm in med school, booya! Man I'm so glad I did drugs and slacked off in college, I would've never made it otherwise.

 

[DoctaJay]

I was a slacker in school until about 7th grade. I got all C's on my report card for that term and my mom was really disappointed, which for some reason made me really disappointed in myself. I vowed that I would never get a C on a report card again....from then on I started working pretty hard.

I think that medical school is doable for anyone who isn't inherently horrible at standardized tests.

 

[Mr. Tee]

Top of my middle school classes, valedictorian of high school....

Hung out in all social circles and had a fair share of partying...

Was a varsity letterman....

 

[wiryMD]

Getting into medical school is all well and good if it's what you want to do, but lets all be honest with ourselves, the best and brightest don't go to medical school. The most intelligent/hardworking/etc... persons I know are physicists, engineers, chemists...the list goes on. Performing well in middle school/high school/even college (to some degree) has no bearing on how capable a person will be in the medical field. For people who think they work so much harder than everyone else, you're kidding yourself. If you really want something, you work hard to get it, medicine is no different than any other field in that respect.

 

[rgarrig]

Getting into medical school is all well and good if it's what you want to do, but lets all be honest with ourselves, the best and brightest don't go to medical school. The most intelligent/hardworking/etc... persons I know are physicists, engineers, chemists...the list goes on. Performing well in middle school/high school/even college (to some degree) has no bearing on how capable a person will be in the medical field. For people who think they work so much harder than everyone else, you're kidding yourself. If you really want something, you work hard to get it, medicine is no different than any other field in that respect.

How preposterous is this post?

What, are we all working 'equally hard'? I know of several MD students in my class who work 80+ weeks every week (and that's just pre-clinical) - they are working their butts off. According to you, they're just 'kidding themselves'...

 

[Bushido416]

I was a slacker in HS I had a teacher tell me if I didn't pull my head out of my ass I'd never make it to med school. I think at the time he was right. I did well in HS graduated in top 20 but I just didn't care. It wasn't until the end of my junior year when I seriously looked at what I wanted to do with my life it was like a light bulb kicked on and instead of having external locus of wanting to succeed (parents watching my grades like a hawk) I kind of internalized the locus of expectations and control and held myself to a higher standard. So my senior year of high school I petitioned the school board and moved on campus to my university as a early admissions student. Walked my graduation got out of college 2.5 yrs w/ 162 hrs 3.94 GPA after my HS graduation. Slackers can do well..."The will to succeed is not as important as the will to prepare to succeed" was what my sensei in karate told me and when I wanted it bad enough I did it. While in college I talked to a lot of freshmen because I was a peer adviser and taught freshmen intro classes for pre med students and the ones who did well wanted it bad enough and for the other half of the class that switched majors after that semester realized they didn't want it bad enough to push through. Some of it is natural talents like 25% but the rest of it is how badly you want to work at succeeding.

 

[wiryMD]

How preposterous is this post?

What, are we all working 'equally hard'? I know of several MD students in my class who work 80+ weeks every week (and that's just pre-clinical) - they are working their butts off. According to you, they're just 'kidding themselves'...

The point I was making is that people in the medical field moan about how hard they work, but the truth is that lot's of professions work "hard." So having strong work doesn't make you more cut out to be in the medical field than any other. And you are right people who put in 80+ hours per week studying for pre-clinical material are not kidding themselves, they are just foolish, and I would guess incapable of organizing their time better. Or perhaps they are blinded by their desire to excel and are unable to see anything outside of their studies? Please don't tell me that you know students who study 80 hours and run triathalons between helping to build new animal shelters, they are the exception, not the rule.

 

[rgarrig]

The point I was making is that people in the medical field moan about how hard they work, but the truth is that lot's of professions work "hard." So having strong work doesn't make you more cut out to be in the medical field than any other. And you are right people who put in 80+ hours per week studying for pre-clinical material are not kidding themselves, they are just foolish, and I would guess incapable of organizing their time better. Or perhaps they are blinded by their desire to excel and are unable to see anything outside of their studies? Please don't tell me that you know students who study 80 hours and run triathalons between helping to build new animal shelters, they are the exception, not the rule.

I am not sure what bone you have to pick here, but medical school and medical residency programs are about as time-consuming as professional obligations get. Do other people in other fields work hard? No doubt. But your average resident works close to 80 hours a week - I doubt your average person in any other field does more than that.

Before you claim, 'but physicists work the most', please find a good source to back up your claim, and then I'll believe you. But it had better be about the average person in the field, not the top 5% of workers who live and breathe their field.

 

[velo]

oftentimes a relative will bring their kid to me and ask me if they think their kid has a shot at medical school. it got me thinking, what kind of kids were all you guys?

i'm talking generally in the 7th-11th grade type. hardworking? joker who did well? hard worker who didnt mind letting a few B's slip? class comedian?

i have a theory that in order to make it this far, hard work cant be something your just willing to put up with, but rather an embedded part of your personality, so my proposed theory is that everyone on this forum was quite successful as a high school/junior high schooler. the college turn-around is a rare exception.

i'm not saying that high school *****s shouldnt go for their dreams. hell, there are always exceptions, so why not you? but when that kid with the 850 SAT 2.0 high school GPA in idiot classes asks me if he can one day be a doctor, i find myself really thinking...can he turn it around? you can't just motivate them, you really need someone on their ass constantly until hard work and success become a part of who they are.

what do you guys think, what are your experiences?

I would label my HS self as "joker who did well." I did very well in HS without working very hard at all (ie not studying, slapping homework/projects/papers together at the last second) but I don't think I was "lazy" or a "slacker." I was pretty involved in a few activities at school and very involved with stupid side projects my friends and I would work on.

My first semester in college was hard--I had to learn how to study--but after that I did well.

 

[wiryMD]

I am not sure what bone you have to pick here, but medical school and medical residency programs are about as time-consuming as professional obligations get. Do other people in other fields work hard? No doubt. But your average resident works close to 80 hours a week - I doubt your average person in any other field does more than that.

Before you claim, 'but physicists work the most', please find a good source to back up your claim, and then I'll believe you. But it had better be about the average person in the field, not the top 5% of workers who live and breathe their field.

Perhaps I'm not being clear here, so let me attempt for a third time. Medical students and residents work hard, and no doubt longer hours then many/most other professions. But to address the initial question posed in this forum, working hard as a student in hight school/college/etc... does not make you better cut out to be a physician than any other profession. And to address the latter paragraph, I at no point claimed physicists worked longer hours than physicians, I did say that the most intelligent/hardworking individuals I knew went into other fields, such as physics, etc...

 

[velo]

Perhaps I'm not being clear here, so let me attempt for a third time. Medical students and residents work hard, and no doubt longer hours then many/most other professions. But to address the initial question posed in this forum, working hard as a student in hight school/college/etc... does not make you better cut out to be a physician than any other profession. And to address the latter paragraph, I at no point claimed physicists worked longer hours than physicians, I did say that the most intelligent/hardworking individuals I knew went into other fields, such as physics, etc...

I could certainly see how people with other interests would be working harder in HS and undergrad. As I said before, I don't think most people intelligent enough to do medicine had to work that hard to do well in HS. As for college, there are a handful of pre-med classes that are rigorous (o-chem, biochem, and I'd say that intro gen-chem...physics for some) but I was always working much less than my friends who were engineering majors.

 

[Drogba]

I could certainly see how people with other interests would be working harder in HS and undergrad. As I said before, I don't think most people intelligent enough to do medicine had to work that hard to do well in HS. As for college, there are a handful of pre-med classes that are rigorous (o-chem, biochem, and I'd say that intro gen-chem...physics for some) but I was always working much less than my friends who were engineering majors.

Engineering is a much harder undergraduate workload, but only because they are actually training for the job market. They get all the training they need to enter the work force in 4 years compared 10+ years for medicine. Their GPA isn't nearly as important as it is for premeds and most of them don't have significant extracurricular involvements. Their main job in college is to study.

 

[Abilene85]

I was very hard-working in high school. I studied a lot and took lessons on three different instruments every week (which also meant practicing for all of them), plus 2 orchestras and whatever other ECs I was doing. I wasn't very good at opening up to my "friends," who were really just closer classmates who were in my honors/AP classes. At that point, I was trying to decide between medicine (or something else in science) and music.

 

[rhmtascp]

High School GPA: 1.8 with "horrors"
Community College GPA: 3.0
University GPA: 3.8 with "honors" -- dean's list every semester, gave a speech at graduation
Med School: #1

... and I still party my ass off on the weekends

 

[TRAMD]

I was the ultimate teacher's pet. I was top of my class in everything. I was valedictorian. I was very quiet and not popular. I always did my homework right after dinner and studied for a 100%, not just an A. That changed a lot in college when I actually discovered that relationships with people were more important than my grades and became a slacker . . . still a 3.9 slacker but I would have had a 4.0 easily in college if I had kept up my same habits from high school. I have never touched a cigarette, I didn't drink until I was 21 and I never really did ANYTHING amoral or illegal. I don't regret a thing from my life.

 

[EMH]

Since I'm not quite anon on SDN I won't go into details but I wasn't one of the kids you'd guess would be a responsible adult. It wasn't until 3 years into college that I began to give a crap, and that has made all of the difference. Now I'm usually in the top 10% on exams and one of the more extracurricularly involved members of my class.

The point I'm making. People's kids are going to have to make their own path, parents can encourage and support them but they can't will them to be successful at anything. However, with the proper motivation and effort I believe most people are capable of much more than they would give themselves credit for.