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what physicians earn (by specialty)

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Spacekat

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Holy Hannah! I had no idea - that's just crazy. :eek:

I wonder what the "real" numbers are i.e. what's left over after they pay their malpractice insurance premiums. At one point a few years ago NPR reported that the annual premium for baby-catchers in Mississippi was MORE than the average annual OB/GYN salary.

Too bad I have such an incurable research habit and will never see anything like those numbers.:laugh:
 

Rendar5

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so I can stop worrying about all those loans I have to take out.

phew.
 

crazy250

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no wonder why primary care is so unpopular. So that's why everyone wants to specialize.
 

Adapt

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Originally posted by crazy250
no wonder why primary care is so unpopular. So that's why everyone wants to specialize.
It's in the eye of the beholder. I would be thrilled to be making 120K. :D
 

TheFlash

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This list is out of control. Neurosurg, on average pulls in nearly half a mill a year! I guess after all that training for a surgical subspecialty, the money will be there, but you might have to sacrifice your sanity in the process. ;)

TF
 

crazy250

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Originally posted by Slickness
I would be thrilled to be making 120K. :D

No offense, but why be content with 120K when you can get more? Doesn't everyone have some degree of greed in them?
 

thekaratekim

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because youre content with what your doing
 

Rendar5

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because you're happy with what that amount of money can buy. I earn 30K a year and I'm really happy and usually buy whatever I really want.
 

Deuce 007 MD

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Originally posted by Slickness
It's in the eye of the beholder. I would be thrilled to be making 120K. :D

But if you owe like 250K + interest over the 7+ years in med school and residency, then you've got to take care of your family and your parents cuz they are now retired, then malpractice and then 1/3 cut from taxes that 120K becomes small really quick.

Here is another salary survey too http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm
 

StrngoutAS

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Just wanted to throw in that some of these numbers might be a little off depending on area (and I'm not referring just to the averages either)... I've seen a few posts around the EM forums that say they start out at 250K and can go from there depending how many hours worked etc... still an interesting read nonetheless.
 

Adapt

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Originally posted by crazy250
No offense, but why be content with 120K when you can get more? Doesn't everyone have some degree of greed in them?
A salary of 120K a year is a lot more than most Americans, particularly if you're only working 9 to 5. I figure I'll just live in an apartment after I get out of residency, and pay off my debt for a couple of years. Then I should be fine.
 

Rendar5

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250K + interest? Med school costs doesn't average 60K just yet.

Anyway, I'll live off of 40-50K a year and spend 3 years paying off the loans.
 

No Egrets

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Originally posted by Rendar5
250K + interest? Med school costs doesn't average 60K just yet.

Anyway, I'll live off of 40-50K a year and spend 3 years paying off the loans.

when you say you'll spend 3 years paying off loans, do you mean post-residency? do people usually start paying off loans in residency (when you're making around 35-45k), or wait until they're making the big bucks? i guess if your loans are interest-bearing then you'd want to start paying them off ASAP, but it seems like it would be hard on a resident's salary. :confused:
 

upitt

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Most physicians who have completed residency make atleast $125/year. That is the lowest salary and it increases each year + bonuses and malpractice coverage for most companies.

I did research on this for one of my business classes and these are the average salaries:

fp - $140k/year
im - $150k
em- $180k
gs - $200k
ped- $135K
psy - $175k

these are just the average salaries and most of them include malpractice, health insurance, etc. It also depends on the setting. If you are an fp and want to practice in nyc you will probably make about $150k/year after 3 years of post residency. If you are an fp in upstate ny you will probably make close to $175k/year. Also, remember that you will only be working 5 days/week usually 8-5.

as you can see em physicians make an avg of $180k/year but many will work about 60 hours a week and make over $300k/year

surgeons can make as much as $1 million/year if they slave themselves away by doing surgery all the time. they make more money if they perform more surgeries.

psychiatrists can make over $300k/year if they can get many patients to go to their practice. same goes for fp's, ped, im

all other specialties make over $200K/year because the more you are trained the more money you will make. vascular surgeons easily make $300k/year and have really nice schedules. same goes for cardiologists & oncologists.
 

SunnyS81

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One person posed the question of why wouldn't everyone specialize because of greed:

1) You like continuity of care. The better a specialist is, the fewer times a patient needs to come back.
2) To Specialize, you need to double your residency time (goes from 3 years to 5-8 years). Do you want to make $120k when you are 29, or $250-500 when you are around 34. If you are married, have kids, or just need the money, you may feel presurred to go for the shorter route.
3) The higher paying specialties not only require longer residencies, but require longer hours when in practice. Neurosurgeons put in a ton of time, and they by all means deserve their $500k. I don't know of any profession that works more hours (on average) for a long time span (stock brockers have high burn out rates and usually cut down after several years).
4) You go into something that interests you, not only the cash. I don't like neurosurgery, and hence you could triple the amount they make and i still wouldn't do it.
5) You couldn't get into a speciality or fellowship.
 

Amxcvbcv

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My god... I had no idea salaries were that high.


What do you do with that kind of money? And on a more serious note, how much of that do you take home? After taxes, insurance, etc...?
 

upitt

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These salaries aren't that high. There are many professions out there that have an earning potential much more than a physician earns and they don't require you to go to med school for 4 years and then do atleast 3 years of residency.

some employers will pay for malpractice and the best way to estimate how much you will take home is to assume that you will take home about 2/3 of your annual salary. So, if you make $120k/year you will probably take home about $80K which is really good considering you will have an 8-5 job 5 days/week
 

steve007

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Originally posted by No Egrets
when you say you'll spend 3 years paying off loans, do you mean post-residency? do people usually start paying off loans in residency (when you're making around 35-45k), or wait until they're making the big bucks? i guess if your loans are interest-bearing then you'd want to start paying them off ASAP, but it seems like it would be hard on a resident's salary. :confused:

This is not related to your post, but could you please explain what you have against this beautiful creature?
http://www.nature-wildlife.com/egret0.html :confused:
 

asama527

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Emergency medicine is the best deal! 35 hours/week, hospital pays malpractice and you don't have any "homework" or "regular" patients you have to worry about when you go home. I can imagine though, a lot of crap probably comes through the ER.
 

bullhorn

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They posted that link a while ago in some of the residency threads. It seems those salaries are AFTER malpractice has been paid. ...insurance however is a different story.
 

Giving My .02

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Originally posted by asama527
Emergency medicine is the best deal! 35 hours/week, hospital pays malpractice and you don't have any "homework" or "regular" patients you have to worry about when you go home. I can imagine though, a lot of crap probably comes through the ER.

If you want to go into ER medicine, I think the good will outweight the bad. I have shadowed several times at a county hospital, and you see everything. However, I think when you help the patients who really appreciate, it makes the crappy ones tolerable. However, I think I might want to go into ER. Many reasons for what you have stated. I think it is a great area for women to go into, especially if you want a family.
 

No Egrets

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Originally posted by steve007
This is not related to your post, but could you please explain what you have against this beautiful creature?
http://www.nature-wildlife.com/egret0.html :confused:

I think when I came up with the name, I was thinking it was a clever alternative to "no regrets." However, after viewing the pictures at your link, I must say that the egret certainly is a reflection of nature's beauty, and I cannot help but regret my choice of member ID name. How do I change it to "Go Egrets"?
 

Amxcvbcv

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I guess my perspective is a bit skewed, then. ;)

I was born into a farming/ranching family where income depended on the weather among other things, and was never anywhere near that high.


It just seems high. I reiterate, though. What do you do with that kind of money? I currently can't fathom making that much.
 

Pinkertinkle

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I can tell you a lot of things that can be done with money. Trust me, there's people who make plenty, plenty more than 500k a year.
 

steve007

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Originally posted by No Egrets
I think when I came up with the name, I was thinking it was a clever alternative to "no regrets." However, after viewing the pictures at your link, I must say that the egret certainly is a reflection of nature's beauty, and I cannot help but regret my choice of member ID name. How do I change it to "Go Egrets"?

Go Egrets! I love it. Support our feathered breatheren!!
 

No Egrets

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Originally posted by Amxcvbcv
My god... I had no idea salaries were that high.


What do you do with that kind of money? And on a more serious note, how much of that do you take home? After taxes, insurance, etc...?

What physicians typically do with that kind of money:
- wear a rolex
- drive luxury cars, sometimes more than one
- send their children to the best private schools
- use those cell phones with built-in cameras and PDA's

Personally, I hope to open an Egret farm.
 

Hallm_7

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A lot (maybe even most) doctors will open alternative businesses and make money off of them as well. Money makes money. I think those salaries posted were just from the medical profession, so if a doctor could open up 5 gas stations and make another 150K a year it boosts they're overall salary even more. Plus you always have the stock market where you can get an average of 10-15% a year.
 

tautomer

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Originally posted by Hallm_7
A lot (maybe even most) doctors will open alternative businesses and make money off of them as well. Money makes money. I think those salaries posted were just from the medical profession, so if a doctor could open up 5 gas stations and make another 150K a year it boosts they're overall salary even more. Plus you always have the stock market where you can get an average of 10-15% a year.

This is true. I know of one who sits on the board, of all things, a Pizza Hut franchise corporation, and you don't even want to know what they make "on the side" doing that.
 

jlee9531

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Originally posted by No Egrets
What physicians typically do with that kind of money:
- wear a rolex
- drive luxury cars, sometimes more than one
- send their children to the best private schools
- use those cell phones with built-in cameras and PDA's

Personally, I hope to open an Egret farm.

once again amazingly....i learn 2 things...

1. i now know what egrets are....
2. i now know what farm in the future i can get egrets from :laugh:

no price gouging ok?
 

BioMedResearch

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Does it really matter how much money we'll make in the future?

I doubt Jane Goodall wakes up every morning on the hot pursuit of financial rewards!

However, just think how great would it be to go to McDonalds and say "I'll take one of everything, and extra pickles on all of that"

But truth be told, we could make lots more money and have alot lower blood pressure if we did something else. We're all a unique breed of individuals that have the desire to help and the drive to learn how to do it!!!!
 

twinklz

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I'm somewhat confused by this whole money issue. I'm currently living well (not wonderfully) off of 19k for the year. Have an apartment, support my pets, have hi speed internet, could afford to pay for my small number of med school applications, bought decent xmas presents for friends and family...all in all I'm satisfied for being fresh out of college.

So if residents earn 40-50k a year...thats twice what I make! Doesn't that mean I can put half of that into paying back my debt, if I live at my current standard?! Granted, I have no family so that makes it easier. So 3-5 years of residency has me paying back a ~third of my debt. Live like that for two-three more years, and I'm out of debt!

But my father who is an internist (at the lower end of this slalrybracket) didn't have any student debt b/c he was in the military. And currently he's SWAMPED in debt! I mean together my mom and dad probably bring in 200k before taxes. We live in a small house, no vacations, moderate cars.

I'm just completely confused about money!!!
 

skypilot

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Originally posted by twinklz
I'm somewhat confused by this whole money issue. I'm currently living well (not wonderfully) off of 19k for the year. Have an apartment, support my pets, have hi speed internet, could afford to pay for my small number of med school applications, bought decent xmas presents for friends and family...all in all I'm satisfied for being fresh out of college.

So if residents earn 40-50k a year...thats twice what I make! Doesn't that mean I can put half of that into paying back my debt, if I live at my current standard?! Granted, I have no family so that makes it easier. So 3-5 years of residency has me paying back a third of my debt. Live like that for two-three more years, and I'm out of debt!

I think the answer is that if you are frugal and continue to live like you are, then yes you can pay off all the debt. Most people start yearning for houses, cool cars, and kids when they graduate.

Not as quickly as you calculated because making 40k and being single puts you in a very high tax bracket.
 

mattorama

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I don't understand the "OMG!!! only $120k, how could one live off of that?!?!?"

Seriously folks....

A good friend graduated from college a year an a half ago. He got married right out of school and makes about $50,000 as a programmer. He thinks he is rich. He drives a brand new car (not a luxury one, but still really nice), lives in a nice apartment, his wife isn't working, about to buy a house, has put away $$ for retirement, buys new toys all the time, and is saving up for kids. This is $50,000.

My dad probably makes $100k or so (below even the "horrible" starting salary of Primary Care) and we live in a nice house in a nice part of town, my mom works part-time to keep herself occupied (didn't at all while us kids were growing up) all the kids (3) get college paid for, we all drive nice cars, take vacations, wear nice clothes, etc, etc, etc....and he still has a lot saved up for retirement.

Heck, I even have a friend right now paying her way through college (will graduate without debt...no help with school expenses at all...family or gov), owns her own car, lives in a decent apartment, has enough $$ to have fun with all while working in a bookstore while being a full-time student. She pays for EVERYTHING with that money.


Maybe I know nothing about money, but being upset with 120k seems a bid crazy. Whatever specialty you choose you will be more then WELL off. I just don't understand how money can even be a consideration when picking an area of medicine. Maybe I am just naive.

Sorry for my rant :p
 

DrMom

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It all has to do with how much you spend. Even people earning a ton can live beyond their means.

I'm choosing my specialty based on what I enjoy. I'd rather be happy with my job than make more $$.
 

Spacekat

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I knew this thread would take this turn sooner or later . . . .

Guys, I understand your concern, but if you actually read the posts, absolutely no one has said anything about choosing specialties based on money, nor have they said that the "lower"-paying areas of medicine were in any way less attractive to them after reading these lists.

If you actually read what is here, the reactions are

1) Wow, I didn't know doctors made so much (ie the people posting did NOT choose medicine/interest aread based on $$)

2) I've never understood why they have difficulty finding enough family practitioners, etc, and now it makes a little more sense (implied: not that I'll change my mind based on that)

It's OK for us to talk about income. Honest. There's nothing evil or shameful about it. People entering any other profession on the planet would talk about this. This calling is a special one, no one will argue with that, but that doesn't mean that discussions of this kind aren't helpful and interesting.
 

umass rower

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Originally posted by tautomer
This is true. I know of one who sits on the board, of all things, a Pizza Hut franchise corporation, and you don't even want to know what they make "on the side" doing that.

If it involves free pizza at board meetings, I'm in!
 

DrMom

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Originally posted by Spacekat
I knew this thread would take this turn sooner or later . . . .

Guys, I understand your concern, but if you actually read the posts, absolutely no one has said anything about choosing specialties based on money, nor have they said that the "lower"-paying areas of medicine were in any way less attractive to them after reading these lists.

I didn't say anyone had. It was simply my take on the matter.
 

lotanna

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Pretty good :D

I wish they had it based on state, and yrs after residency too, but its still all good.
 

elvingomez

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this is in NO WAY a DO vs. MD question..... but does a D.O.'s salary differ from that of an M.D. in the same practice?
 

Adapt

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Originally posted by elvingomez
this is in NO WAY a DO vs. MD question..... but does a D.O.'s salary differ from that of an M.D. in the same practice?
No.
 

skypilot

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Originally posted by elvingomez
this is in NO WAY a DO vs. MD question..... but does a D.O.'s salary differ from that of an M.D. in the same practice?

The answer is no. When you finish your residency you are identified and paid based on your specialty.

So board certified internist is paid the same whether their degree says DO or MD.

If a orthopedic surgeon happens to have gotten a DO as their undergraduate medical degree then they get the same pay as an orthopedic surgeon who has an MD as their undergraduate medical degree.
 

Buster Douglas

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Originally posted by elvingomez
...but does a D.O.'s salary differ from that of an M.D. in the same practice?
depends if the D.O. incorporates OMT into his/her practice. ;)
 

No Egrets

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Originally posted by elvingomez
this is in NO WAY a DO vs. MD question..... but does a D.O.'s salary differ from that of an M.D. in the same practice?

A family member of mine is a DO in a competitive specialty (anesthesiology), and I don't think any of her patients even notice. However, from what I understand, the other physicians at the hospitals she works in *do* notice, and sometimes (not very often) doctors who are MD's will be a bit hesitant to work with a DO and choose MD anesthesiologists for their cases instead.

But to address your question, I don't think her salary differs much from an MD in her speciality in her geographical area. She has expensive tastes and is able to satisfy them. :rolleyes:
 

Tim Haas

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I realize that $ is definitely a main concern here, but does anyone actually want to give back and just pursue their dream to make a difference? I mean, I come from a poor background with only 2 people i think, getting associate degrees in my family(my mom and uncle, who both dropped out of high school-trend in my family). Anyways, am I like the only person who wants to give back to science and the system for AIDS research, Arthritus(my gma has level 3 , starts w/ an R) etc.?

MAybe it's just me, but I can see why everyone I tell I want to be a physician, looks at me and tells me I don't fit the characteristics of what doctors tend to be like...people say arrogant and such a lot...

I don't know. Anyone else....
 

Adapt

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Originally posted by Tim Haas
Anyways, am I like the only person who wants to give back to science and the system for AIDS research, Arthritus(my gma has level 3 , starts w/ an R) etc.?
Yes. Yes you are. :)
 
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