What post-baccs will accept me with a 3.1?

[sarahg]

I'll graduate this winter with a psychology degree and a GPA around 3.1. My standardized test scores are good, 35 ACT, 1510 SAT, 800 on the Bio SATII (I think a 750 and 730 on the writing and math ones...it's been a few years). Are there any strong postbacc programs that I have a chance at getting into? By strong I mean, good advisors, good record of getting people into med school, lots of guidance, linkages if possible. I could stay at my undergrad, but I run the risk of not being able to get into classes I need (it's a small school, course times often conflict), I'd like to relocate, and it's expensive.

Also, if a program could be flexible about me having taken prereqs before, that would be great. I will probably take Bio I and II my last semester of undergrad (in the case that I don't get into any postbacs, I'd like to not have put myself behind by 6 months by taking random classes my last semester, since I only have one required class). If the program has a flexible enough schedule that I could take other bio classes instead of general bio that would be perfect.

Any good postbaccs that are worth my preparing for? Or should I just apply to a local state university (CSU) and get the courses done there even though the advising might not be great? I'm especially looking at Mills, but I think they want a 3.2 gpa.

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[mocha blanca]

A 3.1 is still below the average for an SMP, but definitely possible (I did it!). But you're going to have to take the MCAT before applying. I don't know of very many SMP programs that don't require it (I think Northwestern's might not ask for it). Only Temple (I think) cares about your SAT score -- otherwise, the schools only care about what you did in college (in the same way no school asks for your high school GPA).

Hope that helps!

 

[sarahg]

SMPs are for people who have taken the prereqs and need to improve their science GPA's, aren't they? I haven't taken any of the prereqs so far. I need to be in a program (formal or informal) where I can take my basic sciences before I think about SMPs.

 

[mocha blanca]

Oh okay, I see. Look for a career-changer postbac. I'm sorry I don't know much about those, since they didn't really apply to me, but if you check out this link on AAMC:
http://services.aamc.org/postbac/
Just select "Career changer" under Special Program Focus and search that way. That will at least narrow it down to the postbacs that will let you take the prereqs too.

Off the top of my head, there's one at Harvard Extension. Browse this sub-forum and you'll find a few threads on it.

 

[sarahg]

I've seen that site and searched through it quite a bit so I'm aware of what programs are out there...I was just wondering what programs would accept someone with my stats (mediocre GPA with a strong upward trend plus strong test scores). So far the only schools I'm fairly certain I could get into are informal programs at local Cal State universities, which don't even offer committee letters so I don't think the programs are very good. I'm wondering about VCU, Temple, Mills, etc.

 

[drizzt3117]

I've seen that site and searched through it quite a bit so I'm aware of what programs are out there...I was just wondering what programs would accept someone with my stats (mediocre GPA with a strong upward trend plus strong test scores). So far the only schools I'm fairly certain I could get into are informal programs at local Cal State universities, which don't even offer committee letters so I don't think the programs are very good. I'm wondering about VCU, Temple, Mills, etc.

You should check out HES, I think you'd have a good chance to be accepted there.

 

[DrMidlife]

So far the only schools I'm fairly certain I could get into are informal programs at local Cal State universities, which don't even offer committee letters so I don't think the programs are very good.

Committee letters would be a foolish basis to choose a program, in your situation. At a school like Goucher or Bryn Mawr, those committee letters carry great weight, but not in a coming-back-from-a-non-science-3.1 situation. Med schools don't require committee letters, and imho a committee letter runs the risk of being cookie-cutter. It's a more powerful testament to earn recommendations from disparate faculty members who have come to know you well.

With respect to your plan here, IMHO, your priorities should be:

1. Get out of California into a state where you have a shot at the public schools (TX, FL, OH etc.). CA is the worst state to try to come back from behind. (If you're committed to CA, then you need to do 2-3 more years of undergrad and an SMP and kill the MCAT. Moving to a more amenable state will save you vast quantities of time and money.)

2. Do whatever it takes to ace your prereqs. This means you probably should work with a tutor even before you start classes. Assume you're going to get your fanny whupped and plan accordingly. You are in a position to have a VERY strong science GPA if you don't make mistakes - so don't. Let me be clear about this: a 3.1 in psych is unfortunately strong evidence that you are not prepared to succeed in premed prereqs. You need to be willing to work very hard now.

3. Take enough additional undergrad coursework to get your overall GPA over 3.4. That's a bare minimum for public MD schools outside CA, imho. If you want to think about DO or an SMP, then a weak overall GPA (>=3.0) against a strong science GPA and strong MCAT are sufficient.

Best of luck to you.

 

[sarahg]

Drizzt -- thanks a lot for that rec, I checked out the link and the program looks like one of my top options in terms of price, name, and un-complicatedness of application. It'll definitely be on my list of programs to apply to.

DrMidlife -- I was mainly using the committee letter thing as a measure of a school's advising and seriousness about getting students into med school. It seems to me (correct me if I'm wrong of course) that since almost every school/postbacc I've researched offers them, then schools that don't will probably have low-quality advising and not a lot of emphasis on getting grads into med school.

I have looked into some Florida postbaccs so that I could establish residency there, FAU, FIU, and Barry. Anyone know about these programs? The only drawback is cost, as I'd have to pay out-of-state tution AND south florida cost-of-living for programs that aren't especially big names.

I'm pretty confident I can succeed in prereq courses, as I've been able to make As in all the classes I put a proper amount of effort into. I've never struggled with classes so much as motivation -- I had difficulty getting to 8AM classes and made a few Cs my first year, then I had one horrific semester my junior year in which I lost all motivation and brought my GPA down by .4, and I've made all A's since. But I feel like I do need a school with some reputation since both my undergrads were somewhat prestigious, at least regionally -- I don't want an adcom to think I only did well in prereqs because I did them at some mediocre public university.

 

[DrMidlife]

DrMidlife -- I was mainly using the committee letter thing as a measure of a school's advising and seriousness about getting students into med school. It seems to me (correct me if I'm wrong of course) that since almost every school/postbacc I've researched offers them, then schools that don't will probably have (1) low-quality advising and (2) not a lot of emphasis on getting grads into med school....But I feel like I do need a school with some reputation since both my undergrads were somewhat prestigious, at least regionally -- (3) I don't want an adcom to think I only did well in prereqs because I did them at some mediocre public university.

(1) If I had a dime for every time I've corrected BAD advice from a GOOD school's premed adviser, here on SDN, I'd have a big pile of dimes. I'd avoid a school that doesn't HAVE a premed adviser, BUT I wouldn't trust anything a premed adviser says until I've verified it with somebody who is applying/training/practicing. Premed advisers typically have degrees in English, don't read the MSAR, don't look at SDN, and update their web pages about every 5 years.

(2) Other than the structured programs like Bryn Mawr/Gaucher/Mills/Scripps (which unfortunately you probably can't get into), NO SCHOOL gives a rat's fanny what you do after you graduate. It's up to you to succeed. You need to seek out trustworthy individuals who have the time and the expertise to mentor you and to take an interest in your success. These tend to be junior health science faculty and newly practicing physicians. People whose JOB it is to advise you are typically the worst people from whom to seek advice (see #1 above). An exception is a consultant such as Judy Colwell (google it).

(3) Get a 4.0 at that mediocre public university and you'll get into med school. Get a 4.0 at a community college and you might be in trouble. The only time that the "rank" or "prestige" of a university matters is in a tie break, after you've already made the grade. Honestly, and pardon me for being blunt, but the benefit of your prestigious undergrad school is pretty much wiped out by your non-science GPA there. If you had a 3.1 in bioeng from MIT, that would be impressive. 3.1 in psych from Princeton or whatnot is going to be questioned even by Princeton alumni.

In Florida you have a plethora of schools to choose from. Any school that has a med school is absolutely above the bar. Yes, even FSU. And keep in mind that going to med school at a mediocre (or good) public university means you won't be bazillions of dollars in debt.

You're doing great - ask questions, don't keep secrets, get second opinions on everything (particularly on my blather).

BOLTY.

 

[sarahg]

Oh, I don't go to Princeton, haha. I go to a small liberal arts college that's #1 in its state (not California, but not a state where I want to live for the next 6 years either) but probably not very well known outside the region.

When I told my school advisor that I'm a California resident she sent me off to start shadowing DO's, so it seems that it's pretty unanimous that I need to relocate! (Not that there's anything wrong with the DO route, I just don't want to give up on the MD so easily as the DO isn't my first choice).

gujudoc -- thanks for letting me know about the UCF program, it's not on that AMCA website yet so I wasn't even aware they had one. I'll definitely apply to some of the Florida schools, as it's probably my first choice for a state to live in behind CA (and maybe hawaii )

Would it be at all worthwhile to email directors of some of the formal structured programs (not the top three...thinking temple, mills, tufts, harvard, etc) to introduce myself and my stats and ask if I should bother applying? Or would I be best off not utilizing one even if I could get in?

 

[drizzt3117]

Oh, I don't go to Princeton, haha. I go to a small liberal arts college that's #1 in its state (not California, but not a state where I want to live for the next 6 years either) but probably not very well known outside the region.

When I told my school advisor that I'm a California resident she sent me off to start shadowing DO's, so it seems that it's pretty unanimous that I need to relocate! (Not that there's anything wrong with the DO route, I just don't want to give up on the MD so easily as the DO isn't my first choice).

gujudoc -- thanks for letting me know about the UCF program, it's not on that AMCA website yet so I wasn't even aware they had one. I'll definitely apply to some of the Florida schools, as it's probably my first choice for a state to live in behind CA (and maybe hawaii )

Would it be at all worthwhile to email directors of some of the formal structured programs (not the top three...thinking temple, mills, tufts, harvard, etc) to introduce myself and my stats and ask if I should bother applying? Or would I be best off not utilizing one even if I could get in?

It wouldn't hurt, you might want to find out what the deadlines to apply are... you might be able to apply to HES right now for 2009 start if you're trying to do that.

 

[sarahg]

It wouldn't hurt, you might want to find out what the deadlines to apply are... you might be able to apply to HES right now for 2009 start if you're trying to do that.

I have a semester and a half of undergrad left, so I'd be looking to start next Spring or Fall anyways. Just trying to plan ahead because I'm about to pick out courses for next semester.

 

[schaumbb]

Upenn Pre-health will accept you with a 3.1 GPA.