What rank is ideal to match into dermatology?

[john7991]

Where should your medical school rank be, ideally, for dermatology residency? 1-10? 1?

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[Shunsui]

Dependent on the individual

Having resources like a top in-house derm program with top funding at a T10 is obviously advantageous but if the individual doesn't utilize those resources to the fullest extent, it won't matter. Matching into a top academic derm spot is where prestige plays a bigger role.

 

[Browns99]

At the end of the day, it is how you perform in med school, Step 2, clinical, LOR, etc. While "top" schools can help, it truly does not matter if you present a strong app.

 

[Med Ed]

Where should your medical school rank be, ideally, for dermatology residency? 1-10? 1?

The ideal rank would be #1, by definition.

 

[allseasons]

Even unranked schools match derm each year. Top schools seem to match closer to 10 people, while bottom schools match closer to 1 though. Of course, top schools have much stronger candidates and resources too, so the actual school rank may have little value.
The only thing I've noticed is that half of the people who match derm are AOA, top of the class, overall. However, at bottom schools, almost everyone who matches Derm is top of the class grades wise, whereas at top schools, a substantial portion of matches aren't AOA (and therefore likely middle of the class). What was told to me at my T5 interviews (and more generally T20) when I mentioned this was that at top schools the assumption is that almost everyone has strong academic potential, so the focus tends to rest more on external metrics. Essentially if you go to a top school, you can afford to focus more on everything that's not grades (to the extent that you still pass), while at a bottom school you should be top of the class to match derm. Of course, even at a top school, being AOA still helps, it's just not necessary.

 

[deleted1114112]

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[Goro]

Where should your medical school rank be, ideally, for dermatology residency? 1-10? 1?

It's you that determines this, not the med school. Even DO schools send grads into Derm.

One can't look at these things in single metrics, either.

 

[allseasons]

Adding on to this, a student interviewer at a T10 told me it's difficult to look at match lists for 'smaller' (I think he meant competitive, essentially, since he mentioned derm and ortho) specialties because 'interest varies by year.' In this particular case I had asked a general question about matching unrelated to specifics but they told me disparities happen all the time where some years this school will send ~10 people to derm, and the next year 4 or 5, but this isn't reflective of the program but of the individuals. They said pretty much everyone matches what they want to go into, obviously provided they have adequate candidacy.

In any case for OP, most T40 schools have strong derm home programs so if you perform and do the extracurricular required, you can probably have a chance at those (if not others). Obviously Harvard will give you more freedom, but if you end up picking between some 15 ranked school and 25 ranked school, it won't be much of a difference.

Yup, so I generally look for 3 things, which I've been told is the best indication of how good a program is, and it makes sense to. First, the overall quality of matches, regardless of competition, and how many people matched into their first choice. Second, the number of people that overall matched into competitive specialties over a 5 year period. This, the number of people that matched into derm (or other preferred specialty) over a 5 year period.

Most people skip the first, and I never used to think of it, but lately I've realized it may a great predictor.

As you mentioned, interest can vary each year for any specialty. A student at Harvard shared with me that he thought Harvard, Stanford, and maybe JHU were a substantial step up from the rest of medical schools, and Penn/Columbia/Yale etc. were the same as any other T40. He used an example that this year, 12 Harvard grads got into derm while only 6 Penn grads did. I looked into it, and last year, Harvard sent 8 to derm, while Penn sent 10. In fact, this year was a 5 year high for Harvard and a 5 year low for Penn haha. Before this incident I pretty much only looked at the most recent match list, and only at derm. I learned to be more comprehensive afterward haha.

 

[deleted1114112]

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[allseasons]

Even with this it's difficult because it's not like you can get into a 'bad' dermatology residency, for example (correct me I'm wrong). Unless you're vying for a spot in academic medicine, it seems like most dermatology residencies will give you freedom to work most anywhere (geographically) with the same salary. Like using terms like "quality" when discussing an already extremely competitive field doesn't really make any sense. I'm sure there are probably bad programs in the relative sense, but for the sake of discussion pretty much all of them will get you where you want to be.

Also it's really difficult to project your life up to that point. A lot of people choose to try and match different places for a variety of reasons and a lot of things can change. I'm sure for some it's just a beeline but like, if you want a more concrete example, I'm sure a lot of people who do school in the midwest probably choose to stay there or match there as opposed to gunning for 'bigger names' just because it's a better life choice. It doesn't really speak to the quality of the program.

There are big names in every region, though. Even if most are on the Coast, it's not like the midwest is barren. I understand what you're saying, in general top schools derm programs seem to match to top names (both that we know, and by doximity) while other schools tend to match to lower ranked programs, so I think even within competitive residencies you can have ranking by desirability.

Of course, I think you're right about post-residency success and salary, so you could make the argument that these derm rankings don't really matter and are purely a reflection of desirability.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Every single one of these specialty specific threads always try to focus on the medical school. The thing is it is highly multi-factorial. Selectivity begets selectivity. In order to get into the “top Med schools” you need killer grades, MCATs, research etc. Same for residency. So is it a surprise that those schools have a higher proportion of Derm, NSGY, ENT, etc.? It’s more about the applicant, but they certainly benefit more from the letterhead of their school.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Yup, so I generally look for 3 things, which I've been told is the best indication of how good a program is, and it makes sense to. First, the overall quality of matches, regardless of competition, and how many people matched into their first choice. Second, the number of people that overall matched into competitive specialties over a 5 year period. This, the number of people that matched into derm (or other preferred specialty) over a 5 year period.

Most people skip the first, and I never used to think of it, but lately I've realized it may a great predictor.

As you mentioned, interest can vary each year for any specialty. A student at Harvard shared with me that he thought Harvard, Stanford, and maybe JHU were a substantial step up from the rest of medical schools, and Penn/Columbia/Yale etc. were the same as any other T40. He used an example that this year, 12 Harvard grads got into derm while only 6 Penn grads did. I looked into it, and last year, Harvard sent 8 to derm, while Penn sent 10. In fact, this year was a 5 year high for Harvard and a 5 year low for Penn haha. Before this incident I pretty much only looked at the most recent match list, and only at derm. I learned to be more comprehensive afterward haha.

That comment by the HMS person is asinine. Not everyone wants to touch skin for a living… most people are really turned off by those disgusting pustules or papules that look like poisonous mushrooms or a giant cesspool.

 

[deleted1114112]

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[allseasons]

First choice matches would seems of little use as over 40% of US seniors match into their first choice with nearly 75% matching into one of their top three choices in 2021. This has been the trend for many years. For example, in 2021 nearly 75% of US seniors who applied for Derm (PGY-II) got a slot (382 of 517 applicants). Additionally nearly of DO seniors (31 of 66) got derm slots

Why would this mean that first choice matches are of little use? If the average is 40%, and I have an acceptance from two schools, one with 40%, and one with 60% first choice match rate, wouldn't that information still be of use?

 

[allseasons]

Wasn't that their point? That minor fluctuations are meaningless when looking at match list changes through the years because individuals change in teach class. Obviously at a school like Penn, pretty much everyone matches and a lot of people have super high STEP scores, so if only 2 people applied derm it's probably because only 2 wanted to? Barring someone who bombed STEP, failed/bad grades, or had terrible ECs (should be in the minority, no?). Correct me if I'm wrong.

The HMS person's point was that Harvard, Stanford, and JHU are substantially above every other med school, and the rest of T5-20 are the same as T40, and he used the derm match numbers as an example of why. My point (I am not the HMS student in question) was that this sentiment is not correct, and I used the fluctuation over years as an example of why.