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What Schools are Pass/Fail

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical Allopathic [ MD ]' started by TurkDorian, 09.21.14.

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  1. TurkDorian

    TurkDorian 2+ Year Member

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    Hey guys,

    I saw the thread about which top 20 schools are pass fail and I was wondering if anyone knew which schools were pass/fail, considering all schools, not just the top 20.
     
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  3. Ismet

    Ismet PGY-fun SDN Administrator 5+ Year Member

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    Doesn't the MSAR list this kind of thing? Genuine question, I haven't looked at an MSAR in over 3 years.
     
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  4. Dr. Retractor

    Dr. Retractor 2+ Year Member

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    No, but it would be a great addition.
     
  5. SkipJunior

    SkipJunior I'm Your Butler Account on Hold

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    Any DO schools have pass/fail?
     
  6. Doctoblast

    Doctoblast 2+ Year Member

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    I believe MSUCOM is pass/fail, but not 100% sure. I'm interested in this topic as well
     
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  7. SkipJunior

    SkipJunior I'm Your Butler Account on Hold

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    I really hope I'm accepted to MSUCOM then! I hear they give out close to 500 acceptances since their class size is around 350. Do you think that's true? If it's true, I hope that means applicants have a high chance of receiving an acceptance letter!!
     
  8. IslandStyle808

    IslandStyle808 Akuma residency or bust! 2+ Year Member

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    Are you asking true P/F or with internal ranking?
     
  9. TyrKinase

    TyrKinase 7+ Year Member

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    I believe the vast majority of schools with P/F grades have internal ranking for the purpose of class quartiles (as discussed in your deans letter prior to residency application) and/or for AOA election.
     
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  10. Doctoblast

    Doctoblast 2+ Year Member

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    I heard that schools offer between 1.5-3ish acceptances per seat (no source). I'm assuming since Msu has such a good rep that they don't need to offer 3 acceptances per seat though. Plus, 25 seats are for Canadians.

    But their class size is big so them offering up to 500 is imaginable! Are you a MI resident? You can PM me so we don't hijack the thread lol
     
  11. G_Marker

    G_Marker

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    UVA, Thomas Jefferson
     
  12. NickNaylor

    NickNaylor Daisy the Dog Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    This is an important distinction. It's also important to ensure that a school that advertises itself as P/F is, in fasct, "true" P/F. Some schools use a H/HP/P/F system - eerily similar to A/B/C/F - and advertise that as pass fail. Obviously that's not what you want if you're specifically looking for a P/F grading scheme.

    While many schools do rank internally irrespective of their grading schemes, many do not. This can be tough to flesh out as schools at times aren't forthcoming about this information with either applicants or students. If this is something that's extremely important to you, you should be direct and ask a member of the school's administration what their policies are.
     
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  13. Leoz M Jiliums

    Leoz M Jiliums 2+ Year Member

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    I know of only a handful of schools that are P/F AND have no internal ranking:

    - Case :love:
    - Yale
    - Harvard
    - Stanford
    - UVa

    - Pritzker (not sure about this one)
    - Sinai (maybe?)
     
  14. rushmore4

    rushmore4

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    Cooper (P/F for the first two yrs, there is HP and H for last two) but there is an internal ranking for AOA
     
  15. FutureOncologist

    FutureOncologist I support cancer... research 2+ Year Member

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    It'll be easier to post what schools DON'T use pass/fail system.
     
  16. JPA178

    JPA178 2+ Year Member

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    2 that are most definitely NOT P/F:

    University of Maryland
    Wayne State
     
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  17. NickNaylor

    NickNaylor Daisy the Dog Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    Pritzker is, in fact, true P/F as well as non-ranking.
     
  18. IslandStyle808

    IslandStyle808 Akuma residency or bust! 2+ Year Member

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    Do you like that your school is a true P/F and non-ranking?
     
  19. NickNaylor

    NickNaylor Daisy the Dog Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    Yes, but then again I took advantage of that fact to 1) stay sane and 2) use that time that otherwise may have been spent studying doing things I preferred to do beyond studying. So I'm not really the best person to ask. I'm clearly biased.
     
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  20. Leoz M Jiliums

    Leoz M Jiliums 2+ Year Member

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    Yes, YES, YESSSS!!!

    It would take me too long to type out all the reasons why non-ranking P/F is the best, but generally it gives you waaay more freedom. The bar for passing is set at a point where you have to achieve a base level of competency, but after that it's all on you.

    So, once you achieve that level, you can spend your time with whatever else you want. You can definitely put more time into the material if you want to, or you can do awesome stuff instead. I have a classmate who is developing a medically related business idea, I've started doing research in my free time, and there is a member of our class who spends his afternoons coaching a college football team. Hell, you can even spend entire afternoons playing video games if you want.

    Also, I've found that I can easily pass while only studying materials that are high yield in Boards. This allows me to tailor my studying with the express goal of nailing Step 1, without having to worry about where I fall in my class' curve.

    There are like a 100 other reasons why this is awesome, but I don't have the time to go into them


    TL;DR go to a P/F non-ranking school if you get the chance
     
    Last edited: 09.23.14
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  21. PantherPride

    PantherPride 5+ Year Member

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    Baylor is true P/F during preclinical years. UTSW says they're switching to P/F for their preclinical years, but when a student asked the admissions dean if it was true P/F, he kind of danced around the question.
     
  22. TurkDorian

    TurkDorian 2+ Year Member

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    What's the difference?
     
  23. MilkIsGood

    MilkIsGood 7+ Year Member

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    unless baylor changed recently, they weren't true p/f a few years ago
     
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  24. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    Last edited: 09.27.14
  25. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    WRONG. Baylor College of Medicine is definitely not "true" P/F in the first 2 years, it's internally ranked for AOA. I do like how the admissions dean at UTSW danced around whether it's really "true" P/F -- tells you all you need to know.

    Edit: Realized you're actually interviewing for med school now. Well now you know med schools lie.
     
    Last edited: 09.26.14
  26. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    Not exactly. UVa internally ranks the first 2 years esp. for AOA. Pritzker is definitely "true" P/F and advertises this directly on their website. Realize they also have a small class in comparison to other med schools.
     
    Last edited: 09.26.14
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  27. PantherPride

    PantherPride 5+ Year Member

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    Good to know, wasn't aware it was internally ranked
     
  28. SkipJunior

    SkipJunior I'm Your Butler Account on Hold

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  29. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    "true" Pass/Fail -- grades are Pass or Fail with no internal keeping of grades for rank or other purposes. Anything other than that is not "true" Pass/Fail.
     
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  30. BamaNicole

    BamaNicole MS 3 2+ Year Member

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    My school is true pass fail with no internal ranking in the preclinical years. I love it as it allows me to learn, prep for boards and explore opportunities outside of the classroom without having to agonize over points.
     
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  31. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    And yet you're so stressed in your avatar. You look like an annoyed Jackie O.
     
  32. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    Nope. neither one is P/F. UVA does internally ranking in the first 2 years, and Jefferson is H/P/F.
     
  33. BamaNicole

    BamaNicole MS 3 2+ Year Member

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    You assume that's what I look like. Haha
     
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  34. SkipJunior

    SkipJunior I'm Your Butler Account on Hold

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    edit, nvm
     
  35. Dral

    Dral 7+ Year Member

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    In addition, UVA gives letter grades during clinical years...down to plus/minus.
     
  36. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    Yikes! WTF?!?
     
  37. TurkDorian

    TurkDorian 2+ Year Member

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    Oh, in that case, I mean true pass/fail :)
     
  38. G_Marker

    G_Marker

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    In my defense, I posted before we started getting technical. I thought most of these "pass/fail" schools were pass/fail/honors with internal rankings anyway. From what I've heard from a handful of current medical students, 'honors' can be very close to impossible anyway (ergo, everyone just really wants to pass and do well on the exams that really matter).

    Are there actually schools that are ONLY pass/fail? Either way, it sounds better to me than the high school and college GPA system.
     
    Last edited: 09.27.14
  39. SN12357

    SN12357 2+ Year Member

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    There are several schools that are 'true' pass/fail during preclinicals, meaning, the only grades reported are Pass or Fail and no ranking at all based on preclinical grades.

    As for schools that are 100% pass/fail all four years...maybe Yale? Pretty sure no one else.
     
  40. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    And yet every year there are medical students who get Honors in every class, and get AOA. The ones who aren't getting Honors will naturally say it is "impossible".
     
  41. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    I'm pretty susre that's correct. UCLA I believe has switched their grading for clinicals - it used to be Letter of Distinction/P/F but LOD wasn't an "Honors" and there was no histogram for it. Stanford is now Pass or Pass with Distinction or Fail.
     

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