What Schools are Pass/Fail

[TurkDorian]

Hey guys,

I saw the thread about which top 20 schools are pass fail and I was wondering if anyone knew which schools were pass/fail, considering all schools, not just the top 20.

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[Ismet]

Doesn't the MSAR list this kind of thing? Genuine question, I haven't looked at an MSAR in over 3 years.

 

[Dr. Retractor]

Doesn't the MSAR list this kind of thing? Genuine question, I haven't looked at an MSAR in over 3 years.

No, but it would be a great addition.

 

[SkipJunior]

Any DO schools have pass/fail?

 

[Doctoblast]

I believe MSUCOM is pass/fail, but not 100% sure. I'm interested in this topic as well

 

[SkipJunior]

I believe MSUCOM is pass/fail, but not 100% sure. I'm interested in this topic as well

I really hope I'm accepted to MSUCOM then! I hear they give out close to 500 acceptances since their class size is around 350. Do you think that's true? If it's true, I hope that means applicants have a high chance of receiving an acceptance letter!!

 

[IslandStyle808]

Hey guys,

I saw the thread about which top 20 schools are pass fail and I was wondering if anyone knew which schools were pass/fail, considering all schools, not just the top 20.

Are you asking true P/F or with internal ranking?

 

[TyrKinase]

I believe the vast majority of schools with P/F grades have internal ranking for the purpose of class quartiles (as discussed in your deans letter prior to residency application) and/or for AOA election.

 

[Doctoblast]

I really hope I'm accepted to MSUCOM then! I hear they give out close to 500 acceptances since their class size is around 350. Do you think that's true? If it's true, I hope that means applicants have a high chance of receiving an acceptance letter!!

I heard that schools offer between 1.5-3ish acceptances per seat (no source). I'm assuming since Msu has such a good rep that they don't need to offer 3 acceptances per seat though. Plus, 25 seats are for Canadians.

But their class size is big so them offering up to 500 is imaginable! Are you a MI resident? You can PM me so we don't hijack the thread lol

 

[G_Marker]

UVA, Thomas Jefferson

 

[NickNaylor]

Are you asking true P/F or with internal ranking?

This is an important distinction. It's also important to ensure that a school that advertises itself as P/F is, in fasct, "true" P/F. Some schools use a H/HP/P/F system - eerily similar to A/B/C/F - and advertise that as pass fail. Obviously that's not what you want if you're specifically looking for a P/F grading scheme.

While many schools do rank internally irrespective of their grading schemes, many do not. This can be tough to flesh out as schools at times aren't forthcoming about this information with either applicants or students. If this is something that's extremely important to you, you should be direct and ask a member of the school's administration what their policies are.

 

[Leoz M Jiliums]

I know of only a handful of schools that are P/F AND have no internal ranking:

- Case
- Yale
- Harvard
- Stanford
- UVa

- Pritzker (not sure about this one)
- Sinai (maybe?)

 

[rushmore4]

Cooper (P/F for the first two yrs, there is HP and H for last two) but there is an internal ranking for AOA

 

[FutureOncologist]

It'll be easier to post what schools DON'T use pass/fail system.

 

[JPA178]

It'll be easier to post what schools DON'T use pass/fail system.

2 that are most definitely NOT P/F:

University of Maryland
Wayne State

 

[NickNaylor]

I know of only a handful of schools that are P/F AND have no internal ranking:

- Case
- Yale
- Harvard
- Stanford
- UVa

- Pritzker (not sure about this one)
- Sinai (maybe?)

Pritzker is, in fact, true P/F as well as non-ranking.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Pritzker is, in fact, true P/F as well as non-ranking.

Do you like that your school is a true P/F and non-ranking?

 

[NickNaylor]

Do you like that your school is a true P/F and non-ranking?

Yes, but then again I took advantage of that fact to 1) stay sane and 2) use that time that otherwise may have been spent studying doing things I preferred to do beyond studying. So I'm not really the best person to ask. I'm clearly biased.

 

[Leoz M Jiliums]

Do you like that your school is a true P/F and non-ranking?

Yes, YES, YESSSS!!!

It would take me too long to type out all the reasons why non-ranking P/F is the best, but generally it gives you waaay more freedom. The bar for passing is set at a point where you have to achieve a base level of competency, but after that it's all on you.

So, once you achieve that level, you can spend your time with whatever else you want. You can definitely put more time into the material if you want to, or you can do awesome stuff instead. I have a classmate who is developing a medically related business idea, I've started doing research in my free time, and there is a member of our class who spends his afternoons coaching a college football team. Hell, you can even spend entire afternoons playing video games if you want.

Also, I've found that I can easily pass while only studying materials that are high yield in Boards. This allows me to tailor my studying with the express goal of nailing Step 1, without having to worry about where I fall in my class' curve.

There are like a 100 other reasons why this is awesome, but I don't have the time to go into them


TL;DR go to a P/F non-ranking school if you get the chance

 

[PantherPride]

Baylor is true P/F during preclinical years. UTSW says they're switching to P/F for their preclinical years, but when a student asked the admissions dean if it was true P/F, he kind of danced around the question.

 

[TurkDorian]

Are you asking true P/F or with internal ranking?

What's the difference?

 

[MilkIsGood]

Baylor is true P/F during preclinical years. UTSW says they're switching to P/F for their preclinical years, but when a student asked the admissions dean if it was true P/F, he kind of danced around the question.

unless baylor changed recently, they weren't true p/f a few years ago

 

[DermViser]

Any DO schools have pass/fail?

None that I know of. Nearly all do some type of interval system - even letter grades A+, A, A-, B+, B, B-, etc.

@SkipJunior - you might be correct about MSUCOM though: http://msu-com-registrar.weebly.com/uploads/1/9/4/7/19470213/guidelines_for_i_and_n_grades9.pdf
As an aside, I really hope you do get in.

 

[DermViser]

Baylor is true P/F during preclinical years. UTSW says they're switching to P/F for their preclinical years, but when a student asked the admissions dean if it was true P/F, he kind of danced around the question.

WRONG. Baylor College of Medicine is definitely not "true" P/F in the first 2 years, it's internally ranked for AOA. I do like how the admissions dean at UTSW danced around whether it's really "true" P/F -- tells you all you need to know.

Edit: Realized you're actually interviewing for med school now. Well now you know med schools lie.

 

[DermViser]

I know of only a handful of schools that are P/F AND have no internal ranking:

- Case
- Yale
- Harvard
- Stanford
- UVa

- Pritzker (not sure about this one)
- Sinai (maybe?)

Not exactly. UVa internally ranks the first 2 years esp. for AOA. Pritzker is definitely "true" P/F and advertises this directly on their website. Realize they also have a small class in comparison to other med schools.

So UVA still maintains class rank, but it's internal rank only. It's used to hand out awards at the end of second year (top person in each basic science class), and for Junior AOA nomination (because you have to be in the top 25% to qualify for AOA), but we also use other things for AOA nomination--during transition week into third year, the class actually nominates like 10 people each that they believe fulfill the goals of AOA. Step 1 scores, AFAIK, do not factor into AOA nomination here. Senior AOA, the same thing happens, but third year grades are included in the class rank determination.

The rank is not mentioned anywhere in our Dean's letter, even by ambiguous language (we're allowed to read our Dean's letters). The histogram that they include for third year grades pretty much tells where you are in the class, at least for clerkships, anyway.

 

[PantherPride]

WRONG. Baylor College of Medicine is definitely not "true" P/F in the first 2 years, it's internally ranked for AOA. I do like how the admissions dean at UTSW danced around whether it's really "true" P/F -- tells you all you need to know.

Edit: Realized you're actually interviewing for med school now. Well now you know med schools lie.

Good to know, wasn't aware it was internally ranked

 

[SkipJunior]

None that I know of. Nearly all due some type of interval system - even letter grades A+, A, A-, B+, B, B-, etc.

@SkipJunior - you might be correct about MSUCOM though: http://msu-com-registrar.weebly.com/uploads/1/9/4/7/19470213/guidelines_for_i_and_n_grades9.pdf
As an aside, I really hope you do get in.

Thank you, I hope I get in too!

 

[DermViser]

What's the difference?

"true" Pass/Fail -- grades are Pass or Fail with no internal keeping of grades for rank or other purposes. Anything other than that is not "true" Pass/Fail.

 

[BamaNicole]

My school is true pass fail with no internal ranking in the preclinical years. I love it as it allows me to learn, prep for boards and explore opportunities outside of the classroom without having to agonize over points.

 

[DermViser]

My school is true pass fail with no internal ranking in the preclinical years. I love it as it allows me to learn, prep for boards and explore opportunities outside of the classroom without having to agonize over points.

And yet you're so stressed in your avatar. You look like an annoyed Jackie O.

 

[DermViser]

UVA, Thomas Jefferson

Nope. neither one is P/F. UVA does internally ranking in the first 2 years, and Jefferson is H/P/F.

 

[BamaNicole]

And yet you're so stressed in your avatar. You look like an annoyed Jackie O.

You assume that's what I look like. Haha

 

[SkipJunior]

You assume that's what I look like. Haha

edit, nvm

 

[Dral]

Nope. neither one is P/F. UVA does internally ranking in the first 2 years, and Jefferson is H/P/F.

In addition, UVA gives letter grades during clinical years...down to plus/minus.

 

[DermViser]

In addition, UVA gives letter grades during clinical years...down to plus/minus.

Yikes! WTF?!?

 

[TurkDorian]

"true" Pass/Fail -- grades are Pass or Fail with no internal keeping of grades for rank or other purposes. Anything other than that is not "true" Pass/Fail.

Oh, in that case, I mean true pass/fail

 

[G_Marker]

In my defense, I posted before we started getting technical. I thought most of these "pass/fail" schools were pass/fail/honors with internal rankings anyway. From what I've heard from a handful of current medical students, 'honors' can be very close to impossible anyway (ergo, everyone just really wants to pass and do well on the exams that really matter).

Are there actually schools that are ONLY pass/fail? Either way, it sounds better to me than the high school and college GPA system.

 

[SN12357]

In my defense, I posted before we started getting technical. I thought most of these "pass/fail" schools were pass/fail/honors with internal rankings anyway. From what I've heard from a handful of current medical students, 'honors' can be very close to impossible anyway (ergo, everyone just really wants to pass and do well on the exams that really matter).

Are there actually schools that are ONLY pass/fail? Either way, it sounds better to me than the high school and college GPA system.

There are several schools that are 'true' pass/fail during preclinicals, meaning, the only grades reported are Pass or Fail and no ranking at all based on preclinical grades.

As for schools that are 100% pass/fail all four years...maybe Yale? Pretty sure no one else.

 

[DermViser]

In my defense, I posted before we started getting technical. I thought most of these "pass/fail" schools were pass/fail/honors with internal rankings anyway. From what I've heard from a handful of current medical students, 'honors' can be very close to impossible anyway (ergo, everyone just really wants to pass and do well on the exams that really matter).

Are there actually schools that are ONLY pass/fail? Either way, it sounds better to me than the high school and college GPA system.

And yet every year there are medical students who get Honors in every class, and get AOA. The ones who aren't getting Honors will naturally say it is "impossible".

 

[DermViser]

There are several schools that are 'true' pass/fail during preclinicals, meaning, the only grades reported are Pass or Fail and no ranking at all based on preclinical grades.

As for schools that are 100% pass/fail all four years...maybe Yale? Pretty sure no one else.

I'm pretty susre that's correct. UCLA I believe has switched their grading for clinicals - it used to be Letter of Distinction/P/F but LOD wasn't an "Honors" and there was no histogram for it. Stanford is now Pass or Pass with Distinction or Fail.