What schools are the highest of high tier medical schools in 2019?

[944129]

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[CJhooper123]

6. LECOM

 

[manofsteel9]

Not trying to be a hater, but putting NYU above Stanford and UCSF, or even in the "highest of high tier" medical schools, is blasphemous.

 

[907914]

Asking since I heard that it is something like this:

1. Harvard
2. Hopkins
3. NYU
4. Stanford
5. UCSF

Is this true?

Does it really matter? You are about right but like..oes it really matter? Apply where your stats fit, worry about the prestige of the institution once you have multiple acceptances from NYU, Stanford and Harvard.

 

[Gilakend]

1. My top choice
2. Anywhere that accepts me
3. Et al.

But seriously, when I try to compare schools purely on "ranking" I use the residency director scores (you can find them by typing "residency director scores reddit” in google). I feel like those have relevance to me than the USWNR or whatever the correct abbreviation is does.

 

[deleted938090]

Refer to

 

[efle]

The perennial tip-top handful are generally Hopkins, HMS and Penn in the northeast, WashU out in the midwest, and UCSF and (more recently) Stanford on the west coast. NYU and Mayo have been making moves to establish themselves as big names but it will take a generation to be recognized that way.

Here's the top handful by 2018 PD ratings as mentioned already in the thread:

Johns Hopkins University 4.7
University of California—San Francisco 4.7
University of Pennsylvania (Perelman) 4.7

Harvard University 4.6
Washington University in St. Louis 4.6

Stanford University 4.5
Columbia University 4.5

Duke University 4.4
University of Michigan—Ann Arbor 4.4

Vanderbilt University 4.3
University of California—Los Angeles (Geffen) 4.3
Cornell University (Weill) 4.3

University of Washington 4.2
Yale University 4.2
Northwestern University (Feinberg) 4.2

University of Pittsburgh 4.1
University of Chicago (Pritzker) 4.1
Mayo Clinic School of Medicine 4.1
Emory University 4.1
Baylor College of Medicine 4.1

New York University (Langone) 4

University of North Carolina—Chapel Hill 3.9
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center 3.9

University of California—San Diego 3.8
University of Virginia 3.8

 

[Goro]

Asking since I heard that it is something like this:

1. Harvard
2. Hopkins
3. NYU
4. Stanford
5. UCSF

Is this true?

Here are what I consider are the "Really Top Schools". Note I consider that there is an NYU/WashU class, and a Havrard/Stanford class.
trying to say who is better is a fool's errand. It's like trying to ask who is better, the battleship USS South Dakota, or the North Carolina?


NYU
Vanderbilt
WashU
Yale
JHU
Northwestern
U Chicago
U Penn
Columbia
Duke
Harvard
Sinai
Cornell
Stanford
U MI
U VA
Mayo
UCLA
UCSF

 

[altblue]

Why does this matter to you? Once you’re in a top 10 your residency prospects will be almost entirely dependent on your performance. And as Goro says, there’s about 15 schools in the top 10. As a poster above says, it changes basically every generation- Stanford 15 years ago was not a top 5 med school, and 15 years from now, NYU and Mayo could be top 5 med schools. So again, these rankings do not measure anything real or of importance.

Well look at a publicly available match list for Harvard, the perrenially top ranked school. The smallest names for IM they match are Northwestern and Mt. Sinai. Now sure Harvard has a high average step 1 and lots of research opportunities, but this is insufficient to explain how well they match. My money's on brand name to explain that.

If you're set on a competitive residency or specialty, I'd definitely take into account PD rankings or even USNews, using them as a proxy for name. I'm not interested in surgical subspecialties or academic medicine, so these are less of a concern for me. Your milage may vary.

 

[Gilakend]

Have heard this isn’t reliable due to a very low response rate. Would check the rating system where med schools rate each other on prestige instead

Do you have a link to it or know who puts it out? Curious to see it.

 

[efle]

^^^This right here. If you're choosing between, say, UCLA and Penn, you should be deciding based on costs or which coast and city you want to live at for 4+ years, not the difference in US News survey scores.

If anyone wants to see the ratings given by other med schools (rather than PD scores), I also have that here:

Spoiler: top rated by peer institutes

Johns Hopkins University 4.7
University of California—San Francisco 4.7
Harvard University 4.7

University of Pennsylvania (Perelman) 4.6
Stanford University 4.6

Washington University in St. Louis 4.5

Columbia University 4.4
Duke University 4.4
University of Michigan—Ann Arbor 4.4

University of Washington 4.3
Yale University 4.3

Vanderbilt University 4.2

University of California—Los Angeles (Geffen) 4.1
Cornell University (Weill) 4.1
University of Pittsburgh 4.1
University of Chicago (Pritzker) 4.1

Northwestern University (Feinberg) 4
University of North Carolina—Chapel Hill 4

Mayo Clinic School of Medicine 3.9
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center 3.9

Emory University 3.8
New York University (Langone) 3.8
University of California—San Diego 3.8

 

[altblue]

I’m not saying it doesn’t matter at all, I’m just saying the difference between Harvard and Hopkins (tippy top) vs Yale and Columbia (T10 but not T5) is so marginal it shouldn’t be of significant concern to a premed. At that point, location, cost, support systems, etc should play more of a factor in deciding what’s a “better” school. All the T5 vs T10 distinction does is stroke admissions dean’s egos.

That's fair, I agree that the differences in matching among the top 20 are quite small.

 

[efle]

Hi all, thanks for the answers. I'm curious though...is NYU really a Stanford/Harvard/UCSF tier school? Also would one say that NYU is above with Columbia and Yale?

It depends what you mean. NYU recently announced free tuition for all admits, and I suspect Mayo will be making a similar announcement soon since they just got a donation of hundreds of millions earmarked for "reducing costs of attending Mayo med school."

So, will the caliber of students making up the NYU and Mayo student bodies be comparable to Hopkins or Stanford etc? I expect the answer is absolutely yes, especially since Harvard/Hopkins/Stanford have strict need-only policies and will not price-match the full rides.

But, will the previous generation recognize the name of NYU or Mayo the same as UCSF or HMS? Not right away, no. NYU has been highly ranked for a few years now and keeps MCAT/GPA ranges among the highest in the nation, but as you can see both PD scores and peer institute scores still place it around names like Emory and Baylor and UNC. It's going to be a while before it's got the wow factor of a perennial "top 5"

 

[libertyyne]

The highest ranked school tiers are the ones you get admitted to.

 

[getdown]

What a useless question.

 

[Goro]

What a useless question.

Indeed.

 

[nimbus]

I’m an NYU alum, had a wonderful experience and deeply appreciate the education I got there. However, I can say if I got into HMS, Stanford, UCSF, Columbia or Cornell, I would not have attended NYU. At the time I applied, they had similar strong numbers but was considered a lower tier. It was a place where you could be admitted if you had the numbers but not a really “well rounded” application.

 

[DokterMom]

Well said! The incessant posts about whether or not NYU is realllly a top 5 have been grating my nerves. I would say currently yes in terms of caliber of students and probably yes in ~10 years once several of these impressive tuition free classes have become residents.

Agreed.
It takes time to buy your way to the top.






(OK, that was nasty 😳)

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

 

[efle]

Sigh... only SDN can turn free tuition for all students into a chance to be petty. No good deed goes unpunished I suppose. Although I did expect better from you @DokterMom .

Haha I think she's criticizing their motives rather than the act. It's like the people who film themselves doing "good deeds" to post online. They can pretend if they want to that the free tuition is to let people pursue primary care/lower paying specialties without fear of crushing debt, but we all know they'll continue to churn out the same kinds of match lists as before.

I just hope it creates a domino effect like Pass/Fail preclinical grading did, and we see a bunch of top 20s become tuition-free MDs like Cleveland Clinic Lerner/NYU/Mayo(?).

 

[Skeletorr]

Haha I think she's criticizing their motives rather than the act. It's like the people who film themselves doing "good deeds" to post online. They can pretend if they want to that the free tuition is to let people pursue primary care/lower paying specialties without fear of crushing debt, but we all know they'll continue to churn out the same kinds of match lists as before.

I just hope it creates a domino effect like Pass/Fail preclinical grading did, and we see a bunch of top 20s become tuition-free MDs like Cleveland Clinic Lerner/NYU/Mayo(?)..

Yep. I don’t think a class of 3.9s & 520+ MCATs are going to be gunning for PC spots. Their numbers suggest otherwise.

 

[68wdogdad]

6. LECOM

Best response on this thread.

 

[CJhooper123]

Best response on this thread.

Mandatory attendance is underrated.

 

[LizzyM]

Who's asking and who cares? If it is for your mother to brag to her friends, then it is whatever school they think is "tip top". If it is for you to feel better about yourself when you compare yourself to others, get over that. If it is to make the best choice among the options you have, think for yourself about which school is "best" given your options, and choose based on your own values and criteria. /thread.

 

[Pharaoh95]

When does it all end? Where is the finish line to this rat race of prestige? So many people on this site (and outside) are so bought into this social construct of prestige that they sacrifice their soul to achieve it by whatever means only to neglect other areas of their life like cultivating meaningful relationships, traveling, pursuing hobbies, and even just having fun, to name a few. If prestige really is the only thing that matters to you in life, then by all means, go ahead and pick the most prestigious school you get into. But really ask yourself, is that all that matters to you in life?

Here is a comment on an old post I saw that provides some valuable insight:

Isn't this type of thinking dangerous?

"It's only 3 years" -> does residency in crappy place and probably less happy than would be otherwise. Maybe misses out on cute SoCal Girl

It's only 3 years" -> does fellowship in crappy place and probably less happy than would be otherwise. Maybe misses out on cute SoCal Girl

It's Only 3-5 years just to pay down some of my debt -> Declines Lower Paying but more pleasant job in better location. Generally Unhappy, has lots of money and prestige though

Wants to leave job but decides has built up too much practice to leave and would take salary hit -> Another 5-10 years. Gets depressed

Finally gets tired of prestige -> hello laides how you doin?

"Eww who let grandpa out of the convalescent home"



Disclosures: I live and go to school in SoCal. Why would anyone ever leave? Life is fun here

If all you care about is prestige, take a step back and really evaluate what it is you want in life. You might find that there are other things to live for.

 

[bonedoc5576]

I'd rank the most coveted golden ticket in the game of med school admissions as follows:

1. Geffen scholarship (or any other full COA top 20)
2. NYU (or any other full tuition top 20)
3. Harvard
4. All others

 

[Lucca]

At T5 med schools the hospital cafeteria is run by Michelin star chefs, dirty little secret of American medicine

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Once you’re in a top 10 your residency prospects will be almost entirely dependent on your performance.

More like, once you’re in a top 50 med school, your residency prospects will be almost entirely dependent on your performance.

 

[theKingLT]

At T5 med schools the hospital cafeteria is run by Michelin star chefs, dirty little secret of American medicine

There's also a strict policy that if they drop below top 5 on USNWR they have to fire the chefs and hire the nice lunch ladies from your elementary school. Choose wisely

 

[deleted938090]

More like, once you’re in a top 50 med school, your residency prospects will be almost entirely dependent on your performance.

Doubtful. Real life runs on phone calls and emails. People like to think things become more "performance metric based" as people go into higher education but it's never the case.