What should I do if I earned Cs in 7 of my science classes?

[milosavljevic]

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I am currently a fourth year Biological Sciences major at a UC (quarter system). I feel like I've done a pretty miserable job in school so far (cGPA = 3.221), but the following are my lowest grades:

DEVELOPMENTAL BIOLOGY...C
PLANT CELL MOLECULAR BIOLOGY...C
GENETICS...C+
BIOCHEMISTRY...C+
GENERAL CHEMISTRY 1B (*out of a 3 part series)...C
ORGANIC CHEMISTRY 51B (*out of a 3 part series)...C
BASIC PHYSICS III (*out of a 3 part series)...C

I already re-took Basic Physics I because I got a D the first time, and got a B+ the second time. After seeing my poor performance in the "hard sciences", I decided to follow my interests and apply to Master's in Public Health programs. I will be starting a program in the Fall 2011, but I am still not sure what I want to do with my life in the long run.

Because I have had clinical volunteer experience (2,400 hours) and a small amount international experience (teaching HIV/AIDS education for 3 months in Africa), I do know that I want to be able to combine public health with something in the medical field because I really enjoy interacting with patients. This means that I cannot just use the MPH as a terminal degree. I am entertaining the thought of applying to DO schools (way down the line), and therefore I am VERY worried that no matter what route I end up taking after my Master's, these 7 C grades are going to be a large obstacle.

So, in trying to plan ahead, what would be the "best" route to take while I complete/after my Master's? When people say they "re-took" classes, do they mean they went back to a community college? Will DO schools compare a community college to my university and think, "well she was able to get better grades because the classes were probably easier"?

As much as a I want to do a post-bac after my MPH, I feel like I don't qualify for many of them because:
1. I have technically completed the science courses required for DO school, but my grades were terrible.
2. I am not from a group underrepresented in medicine or from an educationally or economically disadvantaged background.

Instead of re-taking classes at a community college, should I try to find a post-bac program designed for people wishing to enhance an existing academic record (if there are any)? Like I said, I have taken the requisite courses, but I need to improve my GPA in those courses. I would also need to take the MCAT.

I feel like another option might be a SMP, but I'm not sure if I want to do that after getting my MPH. I also haven't been able to find any examples of people who got a Master's and then a specialized Master's.

Sorry for all the questions. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[toledopower]

I'm not an expert but I'd retake the courses you feel that you could do better in. Those C's will really hurt your science GPA and from what I read on here your science GPA is extremely important.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Even with all of those C's your gpa is still floating at a 3.2 which in terms of Cgpa isn't too bad. Though I'm actually curious of what your science gpa is..

 

[gunito]

Instead of re-taking classes at a community college, should I try to find a post-bac program designed for people wishing to enhance an existing academic record (if there are any)? Like I said, I have taken the requisite courses, but I need to improve my GPA in those courses. I would also need to take the MCAT.

I feel like another option might be a SMP, but I'm not sure if I want to do that after getting my MPH. I also haven't been able to find any examples of people who got a Master's and then a specialized Master's.

From what ive read you can get in with a 3.22. Also, you can do a "do it yourself" post bacc and go to a 4 year school near you and repeat classes. IMO your gpa isnt horrible ( i started from a 2.32cgpa and abysmal sgpa.) Repeating those courses could give you a pretty good overall boost. You may be able to get in with a good score on the MCAT without retaking classes.

 

[Sinfest]

Even with all of those C's your gpa is still floating at a 3.2 which in terms of Cgpa isn't too bad. Though I'm actually curious of what your science gpa is..

This. If your sGPA is around a 3.2 as well, and you end up with a competitive MCAT score, I would suggest applying (early!!) while retaking a couple classes. If your sGPA is much lower than this I would suggest retaking the C's before applying.

From what it looks like you are attending UCI. You will probably be able to retake Chem 1B, 51B, and Physics 3C at IVC or one of the other CC's. The problem with CC's though is that they do not offer that many advanced classes, so if you want to retake D104, D129, 97, or 98 you will probably have to do it through Summer Session or Extension at a UC or CSU.

As for whether or not DO schools will look down on you for retaking classes at a CC, they probably will not just as long as you get A's. I retook Physics 3C at IVC, along with some worthless breadth classes, and it was never brought up during my interviews.

How did you do in 93/94/99 and your other upper division classes/labs?

 

[agh2415]

I would retake the easier science courses like Chem and Dev Bio at a CC, then retake the upper level sciences at a 4 year. You're lucky that DO schools will take the newer grade

 

[JeetKuneDo]

If you're a traditional student that is almost graduating or just graduated, I think you'll have to retake. 7 science C's can't be good.

 

[milosavljevic]

Thank you for the honest feedback so far, I appreciate it.

After double checking, I earned a C+ in Physiology Lab...so that moves the count up to 8 🙁

I looked at the thread about calculating the DO sGPA (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=552026), but I still haven't figured it all out. Going through my unofficial transcript and all the classes I have taken, my science GPA is likely to be much lower. I earned a B+ in 93, A+ in 94, and B+ in 99. The majority of my biology, chemistry, and physics grades show that my performance as an undergrad at UCI has been pretty dismal. I am in the process of completing my last two upper div bio labs.

It sounds like the general consensus is that I need to re-take all 8 classes before applying. After I graduate I will be moving out of California for my Master's. That means I cannot re-take all of these upper division classes through Extension or a CSU (at least not in the next 2 years). I am going to try to see what the policy is about taking MPH and advanced undergrad classes at the same time, so that I can at least get started on re-taking classes. At this point, I'm not too sure about where to re-take these classes.

 

[JapaneseSakura]

Even with all of those C's your gpa is still floating at a 3.2 which in terms of Cgpa isn't too bad. Though I'm actually curious of what your science gpa is..

That's true, it isn't too bad. I would take classes over if you have D's or F's. But, if you want to knock those C's out and want a higher average, take a few of those C's over, they will boost your average up to 0.4 pts or so, especially your science!!!! (^*^). Thank God DO schools replace your lowest grade for your highest grade and not average it up. I agree for whoever said to take the easier classes over first with a different professor if you can too. I just took over one or two classes because I've graduated and could not take anymore classes. It was worth it, it helped with my science GPA.

 

[jdsargen]

Not to be a downer but if you struggle this much with the science courses of undergrad you should consider how well you will be able to handle your first two years of medical school which will be much tougher than your undergrad sciences.

Obviously something would need to change, if you weren't putting forth real effort and you think you can change that in medical school than good. If you were really giving it your all during undergrad and felt like you earned your C's than maybe you should look at something that is not as heavy in the sciences.

Again, not trying to discourage you from your goals, just trying to help keep things in perspective for your future!

 

[TheSeanieB]

I am currently a fourth year Biological Sciences major at a UC (quarter system). I feel like I've done a pretty miserable job in school so far (cGPA = 3.221), but the following are my lowest grades:

DEVELOPMENTAL BIOLOGY...C
PLANT CELL MOLECULAR BIOLOGY...C
GENETICS...C+
BIOCHEMISTRY...C+
GENERAL CHEMISTRY 1B (*out of a 3 part series)...C
ORGANIC CHEMISTRY 51B (*out of a 3 part series)...C
BASIC PHYSICS III (*out of a 3 part series)...C

I already re-took Basic Physics I because I got a D the first time, and got a B+ the second time. After seeing my poor performance in the "hard sciences", I decided to follow my interests and apply to Master's in Public Health programs. I will be starting a program in the Fall 2011, but I am still not sure what I want to do with my life in the long run.

Because I have had clinical volunteer experience (2,400 hours) and a small amount international experience (teaching HIV/AIDS education for 3 months in Africa), I do know that I want to be able to combine public health with something in the medical field because I really enjoy interacting with patients. This means that I cannot just use the MPH as a terminal degree. I am entertaining the thought of applying to DO schools (way down the line), and therefore I am VERY worried that no matter what route I end up taking after my Master's, these 7 C grades are going to be a large obstacle.

So, in trying to plan ahead, what would be the "best" route to take while I complete/after my Master's? When people say they "re-took" classes, do they mean they went back to a community college? Will DO schools compare a community college to my university and think, "well she was able to get better grades because the classes were probably easier"?

As much as a I want to do a post-bac after my MPH, I feel like I don't qualify for many of them because:
1. I have technically completed the science courses required for DO school, but my grades were terrible.
2. I am not from a group underrepresented in medicine or from an educationally or economically disadvantaged background.

Instead of re-taking classes at a community college, should I try to find a post-bac program designed for people wishing to enhance an existing academic record (if there are any)? Like I said, I have taken the requisite courses, but I need to improve my GPA in those courses. I would also need to take the MCAT.

I feel like another option might be a SMP, but I'm not sure if I want to do that after getting my MPH. I also haven't been able to find any examples of people who got a Master's and then a specialized Master's.

Sorry for all the questions. Any advice would be appreciated.

You may be able to have your choice between some of the newer Caribbean Schools if you don't retake any of your classes.

 

[Big Dog]

which allows you to take courses for one year. You could retake or add other science courses to boost your sgpa.

 

[shushumiga]

You may be able to have your choice between some of the newer Caribbean Schools if you don't retake any of your classes.

No, don't even consider the Caribbean Schools. Retake those CCCCCCCCs and rock the MCAT!

 

[rls303]

I swear the labs at UCI are horrendous...it's like they want us all to just get C's...pretty sh*tty if you ask me. They want us to just pass, they don't want to give out C-'s b/c god forbid we could retake and improve our candidacy for med schools sheesh!

Wouldn't it serve your purpose to just go ahead and apply to an SMP of some sort depending on what your MCAT score comes out to be. The MPH isn't gonna do much for you in terms of med school admissions, but by all means do it if you want to.

I'm sure it will take a lot of hard work and time, but you could probably manage to take some classes while doing the MPH.

Good luck to you! UCI's Biology Undergraduate program is very competitive and cut throat. I have seen kids not take showers for months just to ruin the curve for an exam. I know it can be discouraging seeing so many high GPA's on this forum..but I honestly believe UCI is a very hard school to get a good GPA at, especially when I see so many of my old friends getting great grades at private colleges. However, I feel that the program will do a good job of preparing us for the competitveness of med school!

 

[Sinfest]

I swear the labs at UCI are horrendous...it's like they want us all to just get C's...pretty sh*tty if you ask me. They want us to just pass, they don't want to give out C-'s b/c god forbid we could retake and improve our candidacy for med schools sheesh!

Good luck to you! UCI's Biology Undergraduate program is very competitive and cut throat. I have seen kids not take showers for months just to ruin the curve for an exam. I know it can be discouraging seeing so many high GPA's on this forum..but I honestly believe UCI is a very hard school to get a good GPA at, especially when I see so many of my old friends getting great grades at private colleges. However, I feel that the program will do a good job of preparing us for the competitveness of med school!

I actually thought the labs were very fair, especially when compared to non-lab upper div courses. M118L was awesome 😎

I do agree bio at UCI is really competitive though. Oh well...

 

[rls303]

I actually thought the labs were very fair, especially when compared to non-lab upper div courses. M118L was awesome 😎

I do agree bio at UCI is really competitive though. Oh well...

M118L has been changed now! It's a total pain now, an incredible pain, hard quizzes....Honestly, E112L was so unfair last quarter!

I have a D104 Final on Wednesday! There is so much material and I already got the mean for the first two tests! 🙁

Not to stereotype or anything, but there are so many gunners at this school who chose it because of the aid they got or the scholarship. They commute from home and don't have jobs because they are saving a lot of$$$ by attending UCI. All they do is study in the science library all day. There are instances where people rip pages out of books that are on reserve. I know several people who turned down acceptances at UCLA, Berkeley, Stanford and even Ivy League schools just to stay at UCI and save $$$.

I am a very hard-working student and sometimes I feel I could have had a better GPA had I attended a school like USC or even Rice....oh well. Can't go back now. 🙁 UCI is a wonderful school in other regards, I wish the professors were a little more dedicated and sensitive. But what can you do...eventually in med school we will have to teach the material to ourselves anyways I guess lol

 

[milosavljevic]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for the constructive criticism and feedback. I'm glad that I'm owning up to the reality of my situation sooner than later.

I still haven't decided when/where to re-take all these classes, but I did look in to Big Dog's suggestion about UCSD's non-credit bio program and it seems like a good option. I also looked into Sinfest's suggestion. Sinfest was correct in that I would only be able to take Chem 1B, 51B, and Physics 3C at IVC, since they do not offer the other advanced classes I need to re-take (D104, D105, 97, 98, E112L).

I have until April 15th to decide whether I'm going to go through with the MPH, so that is another factor I need to consider. I understand what rls303 said about the MPH not helping me for med school admissions, but here is my thought on that: When I consider the traditional medical model, the practice of medicine is focused on the clinical aspects of science, and involves the treatment of each patient on an individual basis. I believe that an MPH would allow me as a medical doctor to expand the individual view to one that is population-based, and treatment would instead be a focus on preventing a person from having a disease in the first place (or at least teaching people how to manage their illness so that they prevent further deterioration due to a disease).

I did read rls303's comment about applying to an SMP depending on my MCAT score, but I question how I could do well on MCAT without having a good grasp of these basic science courses. I think I might need to re-take at least some of these classes first before applying to an SMP.

jdsargen's comment reinforced everything my UCI bio sci academic counselors have told me for the past four years: that I'll never be good enough to be a doctor so just give up if you're studying this hard and failing your classes. I'm never going to succeed with an attitude like that, so yes, ya'll might be right that I'm not "cut out" for the hard sciences, but I'm not going to give up my goals that easily based on a few SDN comments and my less-than-helpful academic counselors.

I appreciate the support from all these fellow anteaters. It is true that students at UCI can be quite extreme (I've had my lab notebook stolen and found it in the trash in lab, had someone pour chemicals on my lab notebook, had someone remove my chem post-lab from the stack after we turned it in, the list goes on). I moved away from my home in norcal when I was 18, so I am always quite jealous of all these commuters that can live at home. However, only seeing my family 2-3 times per year has allowed me to take responsibility for my own life. I worked 20-30 hours per week from my the end of my Freshman year to the beginning of this past quarter (I quit after realizing the deep hole I've dug myself), so I haven't just been goofing off and getting poor grades.

Good luck with D104, rls303! I got below the mean on both midterms, and got a C in the class with the final so I'm sure you're better off than me.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

If you want to expand to a population based outlook, then consider a masters in health administration and an MD. A MPH just gives you some experience in epidemiology, biostatistics, and to be able to understand how to obtain currency to fund public health projects.
Secondly even as a doctor your goals unless again are hospital administration or AMA policy will be on the individual basis. If you don't like that you might just prefer to go into public health.
Finally your MPH will not do you much good. If it is a thesis based program then the research will help you be more interesting, but the grad gpa will not cover over your Ugpa AT ALL!

If you want to become a doctor. Don't spend time doing the MPH, spend time retaking C's & below, bumping up your gpa, studying for the mcat, doing research and getting clinical experiencing.

 

[milosavljevic]

If you want to expand to a population based outlook, then consider a masters in health administration and an MD. A MPH just gives you some experience in epidemiology, biostatistics, and to be able to understand how to obtain currency to fund public health projects.
Secondly even as a doctor your goals unless again are hospital administration or AMA policy will be on the individual basis. If you don't like that you might just prefer to go into public health.
Finally your MPH will not do you much good. If it is a thesis based program then the research will help you be more interesting, but the grad gpa will not cover over your Ugpa AT ALL!

If you want to become a doctor. Don't spend time doing the MPH, spend time retaking C's & below, bumping up your gpa, studying for the mcat, doing research and getting clinical experiencing.

I understand what you are saying, but I've spent the last year preparing to go to grad school and I have no back-up plan in place. I had to study and take the GRE, completed personal history statements and personal statements and applications, and have already invested money into visiting the schools I am interested in. I've done all this work to get into grad school, and now most people are telling me it's not even worth it. After working this hard to get in, it's disappointing and frustrating that people are telling me that it will be pretty much be a useless degree for the medical field 🙁

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Well.. think of it as a growing experience and something to remember. I'm not telling you not to do the MPH, you should if you want too. But either way it's not the end of the world. So cheer up and don't be so glum.

 

[Sinfest]

I understand what you are saying, but I've spent the last year preparing to go to grad school and I have no back-up plan in place. I had to study and take the GRE, completed personal history statements and personal statements and applications, and have already invested money into visiting the schools I am interested in. I've done all this work to get into grad school, and now most people are telling me it's not even worth it. After working this hard to get in, it's disappointing and frustrating that people are telling me that it will be pretty much be a useless degree for the medical field 🙁

I'm not saying you should not pursue the MPH, but if you decide not to just know that many schools offer a dual DO/MPH option.

 

[jdsargen]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for the constructive criticism and feedback. I'm glad that I'm owning up to the reality of my situation sooner than later.

I still haven't decided when/where to re-take all these classes, but I did look in to Big Dog's suggestion about UCSD's non-credit bio program and it seems like a good option. I also looked into Sinfest's suggestion. Sinfest was correct in that I would only be able to take Chem 1B, 51B, and Physics 3C at IVC, since they do not offer the other advanced classes I need to re-take (D104, D105, 97, 98, E112L).

I have until April 15th to decide whether I'm going to go through with the MPH, so that is another factor I need to consider. I understand what rls303 said about the MPH not helping me for med school admissions, but here is my thought on that: When I consider the traditional medical model, the practice of medicine is focused on the clinical aspects of science, and involves the treatment of each patient on an individual basis. I believe that an MPH would allow me as a medical doctor to expand the individual view to one that is population-based, and treatment would instead be a focus on preventing a person from having a disease in the first place (or at least teaching people how to manage their illness so that they prevent further deterioration due to a disease).

I did read rls303's comment about applying to an SMP depending on my MCAT score, but I question how I could do well on MCAT without having a good grasp of these basic science courses. I think I might need to re-take at least some of these classes first before applying to an SMP.

jdsargen's comment reinforced everything my UCI bio sci academic counselors have told me for the past four years: that I'll never be good enough to be a doctor so just give up if you're studying this hard and failing your classes. I'm never going to succeed with an attitude like that, so yes, ya'll might be right that I'm not "cut out" for the hard sciences, but I'm not going to give up my goals that easily based on a few SDN comments and my less-than-helpful academic counselors.

I appreciate the support from all these fellow anteaters. It is true that students at UCI can be quite extreme (I've had my lab notebook stolen and found it in the trash in lab, had someone pour chemicals on my lab notebook, had someone remove my chem post-lab from the stack after we turned it in, the list goes on). I moved away from my home in norcal when I was 18, so I am always quite jealous of all these commuters that can live at home. However, only seeing my family 2-3 times per year has allowed me to take responsibility for my own life. I worked 20-30 hours per week from my the end of my Freshman year to the beginning of this past quarter (I quit after realizing the deep hole I've dug myself), so I haven't just been goofing off and getting poor grades.

Good luck with D104, rls303! I got below the mean on both midterms, and got a C in the class with the final so I'm sure you're better off than me.

Thanks again everyone.

I am not saying you will never be a doctor! But you must realize the situation you are in and see if this is really what you want to do. You even said that on some of the classes that you are taking right now you have earned the mean scores on two test. Do you think the people who make it in medical school are the "average" students in undergrad science courses?

If you are doing what needs to be done and studying your butt off just to be "average" than maybe you won't do so well in medical school. I guarantee it won't be easier than what you are doing now. Now if you aren't really giving it your all and you are going to change your study habits and really take this stuff seriously and do whatever needs to be done to learn it than maybe I am wrong.

Also, everyone knows it is a lot easier to get that A the second time around after you already know most of what you are learning and are just brushing up on the refined points of a subject. Just keep all of this in mind.

But no, I AM NOT SAYING YOU CANNOT BE A DOCTOR. You just need to be honest with yourself when it comes to what it is going to take!

Best of luck