What Should I tell her?

[Odie]

Hey there...I have a friend (no it's not me)...she really wants to go to med school, and she acts like she is going to get in. But her GPA is only 2.7 or something like that, and she doesn't do anything like volunteer or research..or any other activity related to biology/health profession. She hasn't been studying for the MCAT, but she is going to take it anyways. I mean, I am worried about getting in and my GPA is 3.4 plus I volunteer...where does that leave her? DOES SHE HAVE A SHOT at all? If she does, I'll bite my tongue and stop ragging on her.

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[Future DOc]

Don't be the one to bust her bubble!!! Let the reality of applying to medical schools do that instead!!!

I can't say if she has a shot or not. Then again, there are people with stellar numbers/background that don't get in & others with just the opposite that do. Go figure, eh!?

Sometimes you are just going to have to let her learn for herself what its really like out there especially in the medical world. Remember learning from your mistakes is the best way to improve!!! By the way, I hope things work out for YOU instead!!! Good luck!!

Rob
WesternU/COMP MS II

[This message has been edited by Future DOc (edited 03-11-2000).]

 

[Dr JPH]

If you were any kind of friend (and I'm not saying that you aren't), you would not try to "open here eyes". Rather, you would give your unwavering support of any decision she makes regarding her future. Yes, she may not get in, but you should be there to help her through anything that may happen.

I had people tell me that I wouldn't get into the college I am in now...and now I am two years away from (hopefully) attending Medical School. I can promise that she will have a better chance of getting in if you support her instead of throwing the average GPA statistic at her.

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Josh Hazelton
[email protected]
University of the Sciences in Philadelphia
"D.O. Wannabe"

 

[Odie]

Thanks for the replies...up till this point, I haven't discouraged her at all...I just fear that she has set herself up for a very big disappointment. Sometimes I just feel that she is not worried about it at all...she is too confident if you get my drift. In any case, I will be there for her. It just puts me in a difficult position if I do get in ,HOPEFULLY

and she doesn't. In any event, thanks again!

 

[Robb1818]

Obviously she doesn't REALLY want to get in. One of these days she'll wake up and figure out what it takes...after she takes her MCAT for the 3rd time and notices that all of her friends are in and she's not. Just my $.02.

Rob


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Carpe Diem

 

[G.A. Oats]

Hi puzzled,

My reply to you is of quite subjective nature, so it might not actually apply to your kind of situation in general. But here it is.

I used to have a belief that friends tell each other what really needs to be said, and not just what the other likes to hear. Well, what I found out is that there is little that I can help if the friend in trouble is willfully rejecting the views from all others--usually in the manner of denial and inflation. When I realize that this is the case, I usually am especially careful in setting boundaries so that the friend's problem in rejecting my perspectives doesn't become a problem that I need to confront him/her--I don't want to eventually set myself up so that the friend thinks I am really the problem instead. People with weak/under-developed egos are especially prone to projection and self-aggrandisement, so watch out!

It sounds to me like your friend has a lot of growing up to do. She needs to grow up and take a big bite of real life more than she needs to become a doctor. If you as a close friend couldn't even confront her some quite clear and objective facts, just think what kind of arrogant and biased doctor she might turn out.

Let her know that you want to help and will be there for her. Also, treat her as an equal so that she doesn't feel threatened to come off her high horse. And, before she calls for help, stick your nose in reality! Her belief in getting into med school without hardwork and sacrifice could be as rediculous as you trying to be her big daddy heroic savior! (I mean no offense here!)

Finally, I learned from experience that I can't change people, otherwise I'd already be perfect!

Best wishes to all the concerned friends,

G.A. Oats

 

[Sheon]

Maybe your friend doesn't know much about this whole process. Why don't you talk to her about what her goals are? Just ask her where she sees herself going and listen. Sometimes it helps just to get people talking. Maybe that will arouse a curiosity that will give way to investegation.

I wouldn't say anything about it. Just be supportive. If the bad news comes, just be a friend and be there to help pick up the pieces.

 

[dlbruch]

What would you want her to tell you if the situation were reversed? Really think about it- would you want to hear the truth or would you want her to go along with your self-delusion. As for me, as hard as it may be to take, I would want to hear the truth. Whatever you decide to do, don't expect to change her in any way. You may share the truth and be ignored. I encourage you to decide for your own well-being what a good friend would do and then do it- at least you'll know that you did your best to be a friend.

 

[Nanook]

Here are some questions to ask yourself:

1) Is your friend an underrepresented minority? If so, she still has a decent shot.

2) Does anyone in her family give large sums of money to a medical school or have some other form of large influence over a school? If so, she will probably get in.

If your friend is just the average, run-of-the-mill applicant, with those scores, she had better be a closet genius, and score >35 on the MCAT. Otherwise, let her make her own mistakes and don't pop her bubble unless she asks your opinion.

 

[Odie]

The friend I am referring to is a caucasian and no one in her family gives large sums of money to anyone, although she comes from a rich family.
Everyone's advice has been great. The biggest problem I face is the fact that she doesn't or hasn't done any research on the whole medical school process. She just expect to get in. Everyone else that I know that wants to get into medical school has books and other resources to get lots of advice and information on the whole process. It's almost second nature to my other friends on what to do. But as for this other girl, she is oblivious to it all. And, she doesn't want to do anything about it either. She has seen one of my books, but hasn't asked to look at it. I dunno know what to do. At this point, I am just going to let her do whatever she wants, and come to terms with reality when it hits.
Honestly, I don't think she is going to get in. As for the idea of closet genius, I have known her for three years...I don't think it applies. MCATs are around the corner, yet she hasn't studied. This summer, she has planned a trip to Europe, and not do what most students do (internship,volunteer, research).
Confused as ever,
Odie

[This message has been edited by Odie (edited 03-14-2000).]

 

[Eeyore]

I've interviewed at four schools and have been accepted to two (so far) so I think I have an idea of what gets you in to medical school.
About your situation, do you want to know what I think? Honestly? I think you need to stop being so "worried" about your friend--it seems to me that you use her situation to make yourself feel better about your own insecurities--and focus on yourself and what YOU'RE doing to get in to med school. Do well on your MCATs, get those grades up, and do volunteer work because you're interested in doing volunteer work, not because it will help in getting you in to med school.
Good luck.

 

[Odie]

Eeyore-
I think you don't even begin to understand my situation. I am not using my friend to make me feel better. I think you should think about your comments before you write them. You have no right to tell me how I feel. Everyone has their insecurities. This person has been my friend for 3 years. Try living with this person and not knowing what to tell her. Do I play the bad guy and tell her to explore other options besides med school, or do I let her go through the process and learn for herself. I believe you think you are god or something because you have gotten in. Your reply has no meaning to me whatsover. It has no content or useful advice about my orignal topic. I think you should be a little more compassionate.

Odie

 

[Eeyore]

Hey, didn't mean to offend....but do I sense a little defensiveness here?

 

[Duo Degree]

I hate it when people try to psycho-analyze others. Eeyore, maybe she's just sincerely concerned about her friend? i think it would be just as easy to over-analyze the reason you told us that you have been accepted to 2 med schools (so far).

Odie,
i had a friend like that in college. personally, i think your decision will depend upon your friend. have you ever approached her about your concerns? if you have, is she receptive to your comments and concerns? if she doesnt seem to want to hear about it, then i would leave her alone and let her find out herself. you might be surprised to find out that she already knows but doesnt admit it to others. the whole situation also depends on how close a friendship you have with her. eeyore was partially correct---you should definitely not forget to concentrate on yourself. good luck.

 

[Odie]

Eeyore-I am sorry if I sounded a little defensive...like everyone else, I am seriously stressed out and I just went a little crazy that's all.....

As for my whole dilema...she has sort of come to terms that she probably won't get into medical school after undergrad...She is still taking the MCAT and going through the advisory committee with our schoool, but a professor has told her she won't get any interviews...so the weight has been taken off my shoulders.

Thanks all!

 

[Selinaam]

Perhaps this friend has not yet reached the maturity to recognize or possess the introspection to evaluate her decision. Time spent preparing for your MCATs, which you mention are coming up, would be more productive to your rate of success in applying to medical school. That is, rather than agonizing over an issue which you can have no effect on, focus your energy on your own personal goals-this may help to alleviate some of the irritation that you feel toward your friend.

Originally posted by Odie:
The friend I am referring to is a caucasian and no one in her family gives large sums of money to anyone, although she comes from a rich family.
Everyone's advice has been great. The biggest problem I face is the fact that she doesn't or hasn't done any research on the whole medical school process. She just expect to get in. Everyone else that I know that wants to get into medical school has books and other resources to get lots of advice and information on the whole process. It's almost second nature to my other friends on what to do. But as for this other girl, she is oblivious to it all. And, she doesn't want to do anything about it either. She has seen one of my books, but hasn't asked to look at it. I dunno know what to do. At this point, I am just going to let her do whatever she wants, and come to terms with reality when it hits.
Honestly, I don't think she is going to get in. As for the idea of closet genius, I have known her for three years...I don't think it applies. MCATs are around the corner, yet she hasn't studied. This summer, she has planned a trip to Europe, and not do what most students do (internship,volunteer, research).
Confused as ever,
Odie

[This message has been edited by Odie (edited 03-14-2000).]

 

[buttercup]

Odie, I was really struck by one of the replies to your question, which was, "maybe your friend doesnt really want to go to med school... do you know if her parents are pushing her? Is this really a dream of hers or could it be something she's headed into just because she doesn't know what else to do...

Good luck, its a tough situation, I know

 

[Challenge]

Odie, all you need to do is to encourage her to go to medical school by telling her realistic problems that lies on medical school admissions. I just graduated from college last Dec.99 and my overall GPA is only 2.8. I haven't thought about going to med school while I was in college. All I did was partying. But I decided to go to med school right after I graduated from college. Now what? I realize that this is not the end. Although I got bad grades in college, I still have chance or increase chances by starting again. I have really low stats. I haven't taken MCAT but I'm really working hard on it. I volunteered and have some health-related experiences. But I didn't think this could be enough to prepare to go to med school so I am retaking some science courses.
Also I'm planning to take some high level science courses and to apply graduate school(public health). I'm thinking about getting good grades so I can improve and strengthen my application for medical school. Your friend has a hope if she can do not only kicking @ss on the MCAT but also work on boosting her GPA and going to graduate school as an option.
I hope this helps.

'Failure is mother of success'

 

[Carp]

Odie,

It's interesting how many responses this has generated. I feel pretty strongly that you should be polite but blunt with your friend. If she has any emotional maturity she won't react in an angry or defensive manner. If you let her waste her time, you are not being a good friend, you are just avoiding an uncomfortable situation. She might reach her goal more quickly and happily by taking another two years to take post bacc courses, get a grad degree (MA in science, public health, etc.), really study the MCAT HARD. That was the case for me. If i had known when i left undergrad what i know now, i could have gotten in a year earlier and with a public health degree. Now i'm in, but it was a long inefficient process (3 years after undergrad). I had low undergrad grades so i hit the MCAT hard (got 35

), 40 hrs. post bacc bio coursework w/ good grades, and research with publications. If you influence your friend to start down the road of improving her application potential NOW, as opposed to letting her be rejected, discouraged, and a year behind where she could have been, you may be the best friend she ever had by helping her to make the most of her time and opportunities. Just "supporting" her while she makes a mistake that may have such significant effect on her life is not only not helpful to her, but is also not what i personally consider to be the best show of friendship. BTW, I really respect that you are so concerned about doing the right thing for a friend in a bind, good on you.

Good luck to the both of you!
Carp

PS. I like your name!