What sorts of Extracurricular to do for best residency MATCH?

[TOMFighter]

Extracurricular activities?

Service, honors, awards during medical school? How do I get these, and at what stage of school? During which summers, etc.?

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[ZagDoc]

I hear being president of the premed club looks good.

Joking. ECs are basically useless in med school as far as your residency app is concerned. Do them cause youre interested.

 

[TOMFighter]

I hear being president of the premed club looks good.

Joking. ECs are basically useless in med school as far as your residency app is concerned. Do them cause youre interested.

Thanks for the reply, but I looked at the offical match form, and there is a section for honors/awards.

What are some honors/awards to try to acquire?

What is AOA, and how do you get it?

 

[Doublecortin]

Thanks for the reply, but I looked at the offical match form, and there is a section for honors/awards.

What are some honors/awards to try to acquire?

What is AOA, and how do you get it?

the only ec worth pursuing in med school, i heard, is research, everything else -nobody cares

 

[Long Dong]

I've heard of a few olympic athletes, published novelist, and a JD from havard match really well.

 

[RxnMan]

the only ec worth pursuing in med school, i heard, is research, everything else -nobody cares

Close - it's publishing something from your research. Your work should have the stamp of approval that peer review conveys.

 

[Ashers]

What is AOA, and how do you get it?

Depending on how the school selects AOA, you may have monkeys drawing names from a hat.

 

[njbmd]

Extracurricular activities?

Service, honors, awards during medical school? How do I get these, and at what stage of school? During which summers, etc.?

Being competitive for residency is based on grades/board scores. This isn't pre-med where you have to do loads of extra "junk" to try to stand out. When I see a residency application with loads of extracurricular activities with mediocre boards and grades, it gets filed in the trash. I want to see what you know and how you get your work done. Your work in medical school is your academics first and (if you have time left over) participation in something that interests you, not because you are trying to impress me.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

AOA (not even really an EC) ~ publications > research >>> real leadership (like founding clinics/programs, not being elected president of you local Peds IG) >>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else


I'm always amazed at how much credit people think they're going to get for little 2-3 week medical tourism excursions to central america.

 

[TXSurgResident]

EC's can be important when interview time comes around. Real foreign clinical work, team sports, music or volunteer activities do help people come off the page, and give you a starting point during an interview. These certainly won't make up for deficiencies as NJBMD suggests, but if two candidates have similar applications, go with the one who interviews well, and EC's often help the interview.

A minor personal pet peeve to just get off my chest.

Do NOT write down that you speak a language fluently if you don't. Nothing more embarassing than having an interviewer start the conversation in a language you're supposed to be able to speak and then sputter along at the level of a 5-year old.

Sorry for the rant...

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

Where ECs are valuable is during the interview. If all you've done for 4 years is study, sleep, and party you're going to have a hard time coming off as an interesting person to the PD sitting across the desk from you. Filling 3-4 minutes talking about those 3 weeks in the Dominican clinics, your status as a Candidate Master in chess, or your ongoing research on pediatric type-II DM might help you come off as interesting and likeable, help you stand out from the other 30 kids they're seeing that week. As a line on your app though, it's the equivalent of 'motivated people person' on a civilian resume.

AOA and junior AOA (usually the same folks) is 4-6 people eligible based on grades, clinical evals, and board scores, selected by the deans in the spring. It's not an EC (think about it, extracurricular).

 

[Doublecortin]

Close - it's publishing something from your research. Your work should have the stamp of approval that peer review conveys.

yes, absolutely

 

[RxnMan]

...A minor personal pet peeve to just get off my chest.

Do NOT write down that you speak a language fluently if you don't. Nothing more embarassing than having an interviewer start the conversation in a language you're supposed to be able to speak and then sputter along at the level of a 5-year old.

Sorry for the rant...

The 1st rule of medicine is don't lie.

The second rule of medicine is...DON'T LIE!!!

 

[Whats_up_doc]

Just wondering.... Do I have to publish something During med school? Thing is that I got published a paper when I worked during undergrad but I got published last month.. Does this count for residency app?

 

[RxnMan]

Just wondering.... Do I have to publish something During med school? Thing is that I got published a paper when I worked during undergrad but I got published last month.. Does this count for residency app?

Why woudn't it? Your work didn't become magically undone, just because you're going on to the next level in your training.

To put it another way, PhDs applying for tenure put everything they've done, from ugrad, grad, post-doc, and professorship on their applications.

 

[mikedc813]

I'm amazed at all of the misconceptions posted above. Do you all really think that ECs don't matter in the residency application process? Of course program directors want to see that you are a well-rounded person and did more than just study. It's the same as when you applied for med school. Granted, most medical students volunteer during med school and put it on their CV, so volunteering doesn't help you stand out too much unless you did something really out of the ordinary.

I agree that research is something that will really make you more competitive. Remember that your goal should be to get a paper or at least an abstract. If you don't have a finished project, you essentially didn't do anything in the eyes of program directors. Most med schools give you elective research time at least during your 4th year, which is when I did my research. Clinical retrospective research is much more manageable than basic science research for the obvious reasons.

 

[bambi]

Depending on how the school selects AOA, you may have monkeys drawing names from a hat.

Hey, was just wondering what AOA is? I am a UK med student so have no idea but have seen it in a few posts.

 

[mk8]

Hey, was just wondering what AOA is? I am a UK med student so have no idea but have seen it in a few posts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Omega_Alpha

 

[TerpMD]

Don't do something just because it looks good of an app. Do it because you care. This is your life and although we feel like life doesn't start till we get out, it's happening. You came/are coming to med school because you want to help people as we all say, then I say do it now.

I work with a program called Tar Wars where we go into city schools and talk to 4th and 5th graders about smoking. I have been told by kids that they heard that you can get HIV from smoking and that cigarettes have cocaine in them. To help educate these kids about their misconceptions and hopefully at least make them think twice before they start smoking is reward enough. Could I take the time I spend with it and split it between several other groups and get 5 lines on a CV instead of one, sure. But I do it because I care and I want to do things that matter to me.

Anyway, I too am sorry for the rant but come on people, if you are doing ECs for your CV it shows.

 

[DoctaJay]

I've heard that even more than AOA, research, board scores, ECs, etc, that if the PD and the residents really get to know you (and like you, lol) it really adds alot of stars to your app. Most medical students volunteer, alot of them do research, and a good amount get published. With all else being equal, the residency director will go with the med student they are familiar with over the med student that they met during their 20 min. interview. I heard this advice from the PD of our surgery program. It seems reasonable to me, but I'm sure there are exceptions.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

I've heard that even more than AOA, research, board scores, ECs, etc, that if the PD and the residents really get to know you (and like you, lol) it really adds alot of stars to your app. Most medical students volunteer, alot of them do research, and a good amount get published. With all else being equal, the residency director will go with the med student they are familiar with over the med student that they met during their 20 min. interview. I heard this advice from the PD of our surgery program. It seems reasonable to me, but I'm sure there are exceptions.

The only problem with banking on that is that while every student thinks they are "in good" with the PD, only a few actually are.

I don't at all think that a PD will go with a student they know over someone they met on the trail with any dependable regularity. I had several friends who rotated at particular programs and were as sure as they could be that they had a spot only to Match somewhere else.

Bottom line: don't overestimate your ability to impress people.

 

[soeagerun2or]

Bottom line: don't overestimate your ability to impress people.

I'll second this notion. Everyone feels great and as though they have an ally in someone who reciprocates niceties. If you're pouring it on to a PD and he/she comes back with some of it in no way means they like you any better than the last person in his/her office. If he/she has you over to their house for dinner or you play golf/go mall walking together on weekends that's a different story.

 

[45408]

Where ECs are valuable is during the interview. If all you've done for 4 years is study, sleep, and party you're going to have a hard time coming off as an interesting person to the PD sitting across the desk from you. Filling 3-4 minutes talking about those 3 weeks in the Dominican clinics, your status as a Candidate Master in chess, or your ongoing research on pediatric type-II DM might help you come off as interesting and likeable

If you aren't already an interesting person, doing those things won't make you one. Either you can handle good conversation or you can't.

 

[45408]

I'll second this notion. Everyone feels great and as though they have an ally in someone who reciprocates niceties. If you're pouring it on to a PD and he/she comes back with some of it in no way means they like you any better than the last person in his/her office. If he/she has you over to their house for dinner or you play golf/go mall walking together on weekends that's a different story.

Man, if you can go mall walking with a PD, you are SET.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

If you aren't already an interesting person, doing those things won't make you one. Either you can handle good conversation or you can't.

Agree and disagree at the same time. I'm a pretty good convesationalist, I can talk about nothing with anyone for quite a while, and I know several people who make me look like an amateur. I think you can definitely have a nice pleasent conversation with the PD without talking about your white-water rafting or treating AIDS victims in Tanzania.

The problem is, are you memorable? Now definitely you can do that WITHOUT EC's, but it's much harder. It's nice to give somebody a "handle" to remember you by outside of medicine.

"We should rank that piano player highly" "That gymnist guy was really funny" "Remember that girl who did all that stuff in Peru? I Think she'd fit in well"...These all give the interviwer something to remember you buy other than "The guy in glasses and the dark suit" which describes half of the peopel they interview

 

[45408]

"We should rank that piano player highly" "That gymnist guy was really funny" "Remember that girl who did all that stuff in Peru? I Think she'd fit in well"...These all give the interviwer something to remember you buy other than "The guy in glasses and the dark suit" which describes half of the peopel they interview

You're not interviewing to be a piano player or a gymnast or a travel agent. If you're interviewing for a job - and a resident is more like an employee than a student - they usually don't give a shiznit if you're interesting in your free time. Some things like research are obviously relevant. Other things aren't. I know an anesthesia resident who was extremely active in his student govt and was class president and more. His hindsight? Total waste of his time.

 

[Long Dong]

You're not interviewing to be a piano player or a gymnast or a travel agent. If you're interviewing for a job - and a resident is more like an employee than a student - they usually don't give a shiznit if you're interesting in your free time. Some things like research are obviously relevant. Other things aren't. I know an anesthesia resident who was extremely active in his student govt and was class president and more. His hindsight? Total waste of his time.

I disagree here because when I went on the interview trail almost everyone looked great on paper (boards, aoa, research) and things that made you stand out made you stand out among all the rockstars. Like I said earlier I knew a girl with a JD from harvard, matched derm at harvard and could have gotten in anywhere she probably wanted. Every interview I went on asked about my bench press competition days and where I matched at asked about my work in customer service, I think they are big on that where I'm going cuz they have so many VIPs.

 

[GreenShirt]

One choosing a specialty book recommend this for EM: "Find an extracurricular, preferably something outdoorsy or something that could maim or kill you." Go ER cowboys!

 

[45408]

I disagree here because when I went on the interview trail almost everyone looked great on paper (boards, aoa, research) and things that made you stand out made you stand out among all the rockstars. Like I said earlier I knew a girl with a JD from harvard, matched derm at harvard and could have gotten in anywhere she probably wanted. Every interview I went on asked about my bench press competition days and where I matched at asked about my work in customer service, I think they are big on that where I'm going cuz they have so many VIPs.

Obviously, you've already "been there, done that," so I'm sure you're right, but I think your perception is probably pretty different because you're in derm. Of course everyone looks good on paper - derm can select the cream of the crop. I'm wondering about something several rungs down the competitive ladder, like EM or general surgery.

 

[Medikit]

As I awaited my plane flight to begin my medical school career I ran into a recently graduated student who would soon begin his internship for opthalmology. This student's sage advice was as follows: You can get into whatever residency you want. All you have to do is get into AOA.

I made a mental note at that time that I would actively pursue AOA. Then I found out that getting into AOA meant pretty much just being at the top of my class. Why didn't he just tell me to get good grades? At least be bought me a shot of vodka.

 

[Law2Doc]

Then I found out that getting into AOA meant pretty much just being at the top of my class. Why didn't he just tell me to get good grades? At least be bought me a shot of vodka.

At some places there is a non-grade related (voting) component to AOA.

 

[kdburton]

As I awaited my plane flight to begin my medical school career I ran into a recently graduated student who would soon begin his internship for opthalmology. This student's sage advice was as follows: You can get into whatever residency you want. All you have to do is get into AOA.

I made a mental note at that time that I would actively pursue AOA. Then I found out that getting into AOA meant pretty much just being at the top of my class. Why didn't he just tell me to get good grades? At least be bought me a shot of vodka.

Haha I know. People say it as if they're saying "Hey man all you gotta do is get into AOA. You can forget about your grades, clinical evals, and board scores, just get into AOA." AOA is an end to which the means are all things that look good on paper. Its like making the deans list. It doesn't matter if you put "made the dean's list" on your resume when the top of your resume says graduate with a 4.0 cumulative GPA because you just assume that the person is dean's list material. Furthermore, there are [top] schools that don't even have AOA

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Obviously, you've already "been there, done that," so I'm sure you're right, but I think your perception is probably pretty different because you're in derm. Of course everyone looks good on paper - derm can select the cream of the crop. I'm wondering about something several rungs down the competitive ladder, like EM or general surgery.

Well, I think we can be agree that, in genearl, academics > extracurriculars for residnecy. This isn't like being med school where people get into "the best" institution with below average scores but they are a Bosnian refugee who happens to be a world class violinist and published poet. If that person gets a sub 200 step one, no amount of extracurriculars will get them a competitive residency.

Similarly, if you're applying for something you overqualify the others for, yeah, you'll probably beat them regardless of what they do and you do in the off time.

However, without outside influence like family or geography, people are going tend to apply to the most competitive places they can. Thus, it's not likely you'll be much better or worse academically than anyone else who interviews with you. If you're an AOA 250+ Step 1, you're interviewing at places with other AOA 250+ Step 1 people. If you're average, 218 Step 1, you're probably interviewing with mostly other 218 Step 1 people. So at that point, extracurriculars start factoring in.