What specialty likes to party the most?

[Brotato]

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[DrMediterranean]

Yes, same course as the MDs/DOs.

 

[Shnurek]

If I started posting pictures in response to a post, I'd get a warning from GoSpursGo.

 

[HM3]

Sorry dude, I've learned a lot about ophtho over the last few months from the ophtho board and shadowing some ophthos. As an OD you'll mainly be prescribing ppl's glasses and contacts. Maybe treat the occasional pinkeye here and there, but that's it. No surgeries = sucks. That's the best part of the field.

I shadowed an ophtho a few days ago and she had just removed 3/4ths of the patient's iris due to lymphoma. When I was there, she was using an ultrasound on the pt to assess for any changes in the optic nerves. On top of that stuff, she mainly does cataract surgery, LASIK, and anterior orbital surgeries.

Point: OD is nothing like ophtho. Good try, broski. I think all your posting on medical forums is your attempt to fill that void of not being anything like an ophtho. ODs only do the boring part, which most ophthos I've seen make the technicians do anyway so they don't waste their time with that stuff.

It's so funny right..the guy's such a loser. He's trying to justify his professional schooling to people on the internet. I don't see anyone else doing this around here.

 

[Shnurek]

"Seventy years after optometrists were first licensed in the United States as a profession there began a 40 year curriculum and statutory scope of practice expansion effort that initiated a sweeping transformation of the profession from the expert, but "drugless" refractionists of the early 1900's, to detecting and referring eye disease at mid-Century, to today's largest eye and vision care profession, providing patients access to safe and effective vision and medical eye care from their local doctor of optometry." http://newsfromaoa.org/2012/03/23/1...ory-of-scope-expansion-into-medical-eye-care/

If you want someone to take care of almost all your eye needs from fixing your glasses and making sure they fit right on your face (if you have astigmatism even a 3 degree slant can put your vision off) to prescribing you some oral tetracycline for blepharitis to putting in silicone punctal implants to treat your dry eye or even performing laser eye surgery in some states. Go see an optometrist. OD malpractice rates are ~1/100th of ophthalmologists. https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...&sig=AHIEtbShQPQACQZvmUBdr18Xmpl53sKe8g&pli=1

Optometrists are the internal medicine practitioners for the eyes. They know way more about eyes and vision than any primary care MD or DO. They will refer out immediately to an appropriate ophthalmologist if the situation requires it. Such as a need for major eye surgery or an extremely rare anomaly that only a fellowship trained ophthalmologist might have seen 1 or 2 times in their life. For your basic eye exam seeing an ophthalmologist is not the most prudent thing.
Why?

a) They have high school graduate technicians finding your vision prescription 90% of the time and I've worked in offices like this and half the time they don't know what they are doing even after years of working because they never took any optics courses. We had patients coming in all the time and yelling at the front office staff that their RX is wrong.
b) They almost always bill your medical instead of your vision insurance because it reimburses them more.
c) They stop in your exam room for ~3 minutes because the techs did almost everything and they are so overloaded with patients, allowing you almost no time to ask any questions.
d) They have more important things to worry about such as the iris melanoma or phakic malignant glaucoma case that requires immediate surgery.
e) Optometry is growing stronger every year and people are realizing that they provide excellent eye care without all the baggage.
f) No other professional in the world learns as much about eyes in a formal education setting than a Doctor of Optometry except for maybe some PhD.s in certain programs. We spend 4 years of our lives learning almost nothing except eyes and the ocular manifestations of systemic disease.
g) If any of you go on to do ophthalmology you will realize that it is a completely different world than medicine. Medical school does NOT prepare you for ophthalmology. You are dumped into a sea of unfamiliar, procedures, tests, techniques and instruments.
h) The reason optometrists exist and continue to gain scope of practice privileges year by year in all 50 states is because they do a damn good job.

"No optometric scope of practice expansion or amplification law has ever been diminished or repealed at a later date by a state legislature."

 

[elektroshok]

I would still rather have an ophthalmologist cut into my eye than an OD any day, regardless of the way practice rights continue in the future.

Just as I would rather have an md/do gas me before I went under for a big surgery rather than a midlevel.

 

[Shnurek]

I would still rather have an ophthalmologist cut into my eye than an OD any day, regardless of the way practice rights continue in the future.

Just as I would rather have an md/do gas me before I went under for a big surgery rather than a midlevel.

Same here. Major eye surgery is best left to the ophthalmologists and yeah, screw CRNA's.

 

[rocketbooster]

If you want someone to take care of almost all your eye needs from fixing your glasses and making sure they fit right on your face (if you have astigmatism even a 3 degree slant can put your vision off) to prescribing you some oral tetracycline for blepharitis to putting in silicone punctal implants to treat your dry eye or even performing laser eye surgery in some states. Go see an optometrist.

Your entire post could have been written in a few sentences. But instead, you made it excessively long to try to exaggerate and mislead ppl who don't about the differences between Ophtho and OD. I'll sum it up in a few points:

1) The length of time in school does not equate to equal background knowledge in different fields. For example, 2 years of nursing school does not equate to the first 2 didactic years of med school. Ten times the content is squeezed into med school than nursing school in that same timeframe. My friend is in OD school and he said it's similar to an undergrad level of difficulty. Four years of OD does equal to 4 years of MD. Besides, MD has 4 years of med, plus 4+ years in ophtho that goes way behind OD training. Your statement that OD offers the most training in eye care based on # of years of any field is completely misleading and wrong.

2) The very few states that allow a very minute opportunity for ODs to do procedures is not the status quo. At most 1% of ODs can do even the most simple ocular surgery. 99% do not. You're very misleading to tell ppl that there's a good chance ODs will be doing procedures in the future. There's a very small, slowly progressing chance. And even then, it's the most basic of procedure. Your statement is similar to me saying you will make $800k+ as an ophtho. Yes the top 1% make that much, but the majority of ophthos will not make close to that.

3) You basically agreed with my post. ODs mainly just prescribe glasses/contacts and can treat the occasional simple thing like pink eye with an eye drop. The fact is as an OD you're mainly going to be checking prescriptions on a regular basis. Perhaps there's the rare exception that does a little more, but again, you can't mislead ppl and tell them the exception is the majority. As for wanting an OD to check your prescription over a technician, I agree. But realistically, that's not so much due to your OD training. You could train a smart person with a high school degree to be excellent at checking prescriptions in probably a training time of 1 month. However, the average OD is smarter than the average technician, so they're probably going to be better at what they do, regardless how much training it required.

Fact: surgeries are the best part of ocular science and checking prescriptions is the worst part. Ophthos do the surgeries, ODs don't but rather mainly just do glasses/contacts prescriptions.

 

[Shnurek]

My friend is in OD school and he said it's similar to an undergrad level of difficulty. Four years of OD does equal to 4 years of MD. Besides, MD has 4 years of med, plus 4+ years in ophtho that goes way behind OD training.

Ophthos do the surgeries, ODs don't but rather mainly just do glasses/contacts prescriptions.

I disagree. I went to a top 50 private undergraduate college and I've worked harder in the past year in opto school than ever in my life. Our average matriculant undergraduate GPA is 3.5 which is only .2 points shy of American MD. 10-15% of the class fails out/drops out every year so they really kick our asses.

Also, ophthos get just 3 years of eye training. Unless you do an optional fellowship which are 1-2 years.

 

[SpecterGT260]

This still strikes me as a "failure of imagination" on your part shnurek. We dont have an OD program here, but we have other mid levels. We tutor them as well. The mid-level courses are not the same as the med courses. Here, even the ones we take together have different tests

Even with that, the overall curriculum is different. Taking 1 med class isnt all that hard. Taking 5-6 at once is what kills you.

 

[Shnurek]

This still strikes me as a "failure of imagination" on your part shnurek. We dont have an OD program here, but we have other mid levels. We tutor them as well. The mid-level courses are not the same as the med courses. Here, even the ones we take together have different tests

Even with that, the overall curriculum is different. Taking 1 med class isnt all that hard. Taking 5-6 at once is what kills you.

The difference is that ODs are not mid levels. They are considered physicians by Medicare. They can practice independently, prescribe, treat, diagnose and perform level 1 in-office surgical procedures. Some ODs choose to become like mid-levels by working for ophthalmologists for example which I would have no problem in doing. Any malpractice would go on the OD license and the ophtho doesn't have to worry about it as much as say when a PA screws up as the liability goes on the MD's license.

 

[rocketbooster]

I disagree. I went to a top 50 private undergraduate college and I've worked harder in the past year in opto school than ever in my life. Our average matriculant undergraduate GPA is 3.5 which is only .2 points shy of American MD. 10-15% of the class fails out/drops out every year so they really kick our asses.

Also, ophthos get just 3 years of eye training. Unless you do an optional fellowship which are 1-2 years.

A top 50 undergrad is meaningless. There is nothing prestigious about going to a top 50 undergrad lol. Come on man, who are you trying to kid here? A top 50 undergrad is not any harder than an unranked undergrad. Who cares. Undergrad rankings don't mean anything. And comparing uGPAs for OD kids and med students is also meaningless. Most med students were bio majors. No clue what most OD kids were. My friend was a bio major and went with OD rather than med school because his GPA was too low. The OD average is definitely not 3.5. I think he had like a 3.2, IDK.

And what did we just learn about the number of training years being a bad way to compare fields? Hmmm? What did we just say about the differences in each training year between fields? Hmmm? The intern year of ophtho is teaching general medicine that ODs are completely clueless on, then they have 3+ years of clinical eye care training. OD's 4 years are not 4 years of clinical training, and even during their clinical years, it's not nearly as rigorous and detailed as for ophtho. Oh and don't forget about the 4 years of med school we do before we even start residency, which gives you a solid background on general medicine.

We need to work on actually using our brain here and thinking about the real differences, not mindlessly repeat what you hear in an OD advertisement.

 

[Shnurek]

Most med students were bio majors. No clue what most OD kids were.

Bio majors. Whatever, the point is that being in opto school is what makes me happy. You might be happy studying medicine which is fine. To each their own. Podiatry and optometry are not strictly allopathic specialties which is what I think this thread was to be about but they are somewhat close. Then you can say the DO kids would not be happy that they can't join the discussion

 

[rocketbooster]

Bio majors. Whatever, the point is that being in opto school is what makes me happy. You might be happy studying medicine which is fine. To each their own. Podiatry and optometry are not strictly allopathic specialties which is what I think this thread was to be about but they are somewhat close. Then you can say the DO kids would not be happy that they can't join the discussion

Owned. Now stop your trolling since ppl always shut you down yet you continue to post your nonsense in non-OD forums. Are you really that unconfident in your choice to do OD? Go to med school then.

And last I checked the op was asking about fields in allopathic medicine since he did post it here. Not sure why you think OD and podiatry references are relevant. This guy is in med school. Pod or OD are not options for him whatsoever, therefore irrelevant. Your OD knowledge is great, but no one really cares outside the OD forum. Likewise no one on the OD board wants to see irrelevant med school posts.

 

[Shnurek]

Owned. Now stop your trolling since ppl always shut you down yet you continue to post your nonsense in non-OD forums. Are you really that unconfident in your choice to do OD? Go to med school then.

And last I checked the op was asking about fields in allopathic medicine since he did post it here. Not sure why you think OD and podiatry references are relevant. This guy is in med school. Pod or OD are not options for him whatsoever, therefore irrelevant. Your OD knowledge is great, but no one really cares outside the OD forum. Likewise no one on the OD board wants to see irrelevant med school posts.

I would have never got into it if you guys didn't get butt hurt and started getting sarcastic and defensive.

 

[arez10]

lol we don't even have to take the MCAT, and I'll be able to do everything an ophthalmologist does except for major surgery. Beat that lol

This is why people got butthurt. This is just an obnoxious statement. "Oh look at me. I'll have nearly all the same privileges as a physician who probably worked harder than me and I had to do only half the work getting there!!" If you left it at "we don't even have to take the MCAT," this would actually be pertinent to the topic of this thread. But no, you of course had to add the next part of the sentence and get completely off topic. Ridiculous. And this is coming from a podiatry student

 

[SpecterGT260]

I would have never got into it if you guys didn't get butt hurt and started getting sarcastic and defensive.

I disagree with the idea that being sarcastic necessarily means being butthurt

 

[SpecterGT260]

This is why people got butthurt. This is just an obnoxious statement. "Oh look at me. I'll have nearly all the same privileges as a physician who probably worked harder than me and I had to do only half the work getting there!!" If you left it at "we don't even have to take the MCAT," this would actually be pertinent to the topic of this thread. But no, you of course had to add the next part of the sentence and get completely off topic. Ridiculous. And this is coming from a podiatry student

"doing nearly all the same things" is nearly an exact parallel to saying "a dodge caravan and a Ferrari Enzo have nearly all the same parts"..... IMO I feel this way with most mid-level claims on this matter. That is why the "That's nice, honey" old lady meme was so effing funny

 

[Poetic Silence]

I love watching the pre meds get owned by a pre opt.

Carry on.

 

[SpecterGT260]

The difference is that ODs are not mid levels. They are considered physicians by Medicare. They can practice independently, prescribe, treat, diagnose and perform level 1 in-office surgical procedures. Some ODs choose to become like mid-levels by working for ophthalmologists for example which I would have no problem in doing. Any malpractice would go on the OD license and the ophtho doesn't have to worry about it as much as say when a PA screws up as the liability goes on the MD's license.

I'm sorry if I reject the definitions set forth by medicare. Yes, it will be a major influence in my own practice some day - doesnt mean the people running that show have any idea of what doctorate level training is.... I need to go look over you link again to make sure that ODs can prescribe oral narcotics as you claim.... I thought I saw something in there that restricted you guys to topicals.

 

[Shnurek]

This is why people got butthurt. This is just an obnoxious statement. "Oh look at me. I'll have nearly all the same privileges as a physician who probably worked harder than me and I had to do only half the work getting there!!" If you left it at "we don't even have to take the MCAT," this would actually be pertinent to the topic of this thread. But no, you of course had to add the next part of the sentence and get completely off topic. Ridiculous. And this is coming from a podiatry student

Alright it was a little bit overboard on my part. We do have to take the OAT which is the same thing as the DAT that dentists take except we don't have the spatial reasoning part in it but instead have physics in it.

 

[Shnurek]

I'm sorry if I reject the definitions set forth by medicare. Yes, it will be a major influence in my own practice some day - doesnt mean the people running that show have any idea of what doctorate level training is.... I need to go look over you link again to make sure that ODs can prescribe oral narcotics as you claim.... I thought I saw something in there that restricted you guys to topicals.

http://www.revoptom.com/continuing_education/tabviewtest/lessonid/108063/

Scroll to Narcotics. There is a good summary chart for Rx laws by states. Unfortunately (or fortunately), no cannabis (schedule 1) for glaucoma ;P

 

[SpecterGT260]

http://www.revoptom.com/continuing_education/tabviewtest/lessonid/108063/

Scroll to Narcotics. There is a good summary chart for Rx laws by states. Unfortunately (or fortunately), no cannabis (schedule 1) for glaucoma ;P

So only 20% of states allow schedule II, and the rest can prescribe things as potent as cough syrup....

There are tons of Rx-rights legislation for mid-levels where the waters get hazy. This is not by any means the same Rx power as a physician.

 

[Poetic Silence]

Wait, you can't prescribe me medical pot for my glaucoma?

I can't be your friend anymore.

Carry on.

 

[Poetic Silence]

Why can some states prescribe schedule 3's, but not 4's or 5's?

Cocaine is a schedule 2, right?

 

[ijn]

Y
1) The length of time in school does not equate to equal background knowledge in different fields. For example, 2 years of nursing school does not equate to the first 2 didactic years of med school. Ten times the content is squeezed into med school than nursing school in that same timeframe. My friend is in OD school and he said it's similar to an undergrad level of difficulty. Four years of OD does equal to 4 years of MD. Besides, MD has 4 years of med, plus 4+ years in ophtho that goes way behind OD training. Your statement that OD offers the most training in eye care based on # of years of any field is completely misleading and wrong.

Dude maybe I'm just weird or my school is MD-ez-mode, but the first two years felt a lot like undergrad. The difference was that I found it more was more interesting. Hour wise maybe you have slightly less flexibility, but if you racked up the credits per semester in undergrad I think it's pretty comparable in intensity. I know a lot of people in my class would go on vacation until the week before a test and then start cramming. If they were able to comfortably pass pulling that ****, then I don't feel like anyone can say medical school is challenging.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Why can some states prescribe schedule 3's, but not 4's or 5's?

Cocaine is a schedule 2, right?

wiki has a page for each. The only reason I am not simply telling you is I cannot remember and I dont wanna look it all up again

 

[SpecterGT260]

Take a look at the foot notes as well. A few of those schedule II states are restricted to topical only ([6])
another one ([4]) says "therapeutically certified"..... I am not sure if this is a given for an OD or if this means additional certification required.

IIRC many of the schedule III narcotics are compounded with NSAIDs and the like so we are working with minimal formulations. So basically, he may have the good stuff on hand (although it is likely at the pharmacy) but he cannot give it to you without watering it down quite a bit

 

[Poetic Silence]

Well, as long as I can freebase cocaine for my chronic ocular pain, I'm good.

 

[muhali3]

this thread got massively derailed.

 

[Shnurek]

Why can some states prescribe schedule 3's, but not 4's or 5's?

Cocaine is a schedule 2, right?

Some states have an exact statute in the legislation for what medication(s) can be prescribed. Those restrictions are slowly being overturned and more general statutes are put into place.

Treatment with acetaminophen plus 30mg of codeine only for example is the case in North Dakota.

Its ridiculous that Cocaine is schedule 2 while Cannabis is schedule 1.

Well, as long as I can freebase cocaine for my chronic ocular pain, I'm good.

Haha and Marinol is Schedule 3.

But in all seriousness if the drug seekers come knockin' I can always say I'm not a real Doctor. So it works well both ways :O

 

[Parklife]

This is really sad. Why is everyone picking on ODs and Shnurek?

 

[Poetic Silence]

OD's are awesome!

Name one other profession whose credentials are synonymous for "overdose."

With credentials like that, you know they party to the max!

 

[VisionaryTics]

 

[rocketbooster]

This is really sad. Why is everyone picking on ODs and Shnurek?

Because Shnurek trolls every allopathic/ophtho thread with his OD bs. Click his post history and see for yourself. He butts in with his bs and then everyone owns him appropriately.

 

[Shnurek]

Because Shnurek trolls every allopathic/ophtho thread with his OD bs. Click his post history and see for yourself. He butts in with his bs and then everyone owns him appropriately.

lol I don't really get owned

 

[FSU2013]

Appearantly this requires repeating:

Please don't feed the troll.

That is all.

Maybe third time is a charm....

DON'T FEED THE TROLL!!!

 

[Poetic Silence]

*Feeds the troll*

Ow! He bit me!

 

[carddoc33]

lol we don't even have to take the MCAT, and I'll be able to do everything an ophthalmologist does except for major surgery. Beat that lol

Bro, you've got the biggest inferiority complex I've ever seen on a human being. Do you need a proverbial pat on the back every time you tell someone you're going to be an optometrist? "BUT LOOK AT ALL I CAN DO GUYZZZZ YIPPPEEEE." Optometrists can do cool shiz. Cool. I just browse random threads on here and you're constantly talking about how we should all think you're awesome. None of us care. At all. None of us are going to be like, "Yo that Shnurek's tight, he can do everything but surgery." Do optometry because you wanna do it. Not because you want med-students to think you're awesome. We're not that cool. You don't need to impress us.

 

[carddoc33]

As for the question on hand... I hope I'm not still partying when I get out of residency. If I'm still vomiting and eating ten slices of pizza drunk at any time after I get out of residency, I'm really gonna hate my life.

 

[Poetic Silence]

I've been pretty prolific in this thread expressing how much I care about Schnurek's passion for optometry. The man is stoked about his future and that's pretty damn awesome because I feel the same way about mine.

I'd never ask someone to hide their excitement about something because it makes me feel inferior. That's just petty and immature.

You guys can do with a little growing up while Schnurek continues on the path towards his dreams.

Good luck, broseph. Keep it real.

 

[carddoc33]

I've been pretty prolific in this thread expressing how much I care about Schnurek's passion for optometry. The man is stoked about his future and that's pretty damn awesome because I feel the same way about mine.

I'd never ask someone to hide their excitement about something because it makes me feel inferior. That's just petty and immature.

You guys can do with a little growing up while Schnurek continues on the path towards his dreams.

Good luck, broseph. Keep it real.

Um, what?

Telling everyone how great you are and what you're doing is, is "passion?" In threads that are completely irrelevant to what you're doing?

Once again, what?

Stupid.

Good for him for being an optometrist if that's his dream. Once again... no one cares.

 

[Poetic Silence]

Except for the part where I care.

 

[Shnurek]

I've been pretty prolific in this thread expressing how much I care about Schnurek's passion for optometry. The man is stoked about his future and that's pretty damn awesome because I feel the same way about mine.

I'd never ask someone to hide their excitement about something because it makes me feel inferior. That's just petty and immature.

You guys can do with a little growing up while Schnurek continues on the path towards his dreams.

Good luck, broseph. Keep it real.

Thanks brah!

 

[Poetic Silence]

Keepin' it chill, broseph!

 

[Brotato]

Poeticsilence, I don't think you realize that Shrunek isn't just a "simple OD student passionate about what he does." He's got a huge chip on his shoulder, a massive inferiority complex that compels him to hang around the allopathic forums bragging about how Optometry is almost like Ophthalmology. You won't see many other optometry/pharmacy/dentistry/podiatry students doing this. Why? Because they don't need to constantly make themselves feel better about their career choice like this guy does.

Optometry is a fine profession. As health professionals we should all respect each other. But Shrunek does his best to ruin that. Lol.

 

[Shnurek]

Poeticsilence, I don't think you realize that Shrunek isn't just a "simple OD student passionate about what he does." He's got a huge chip on his shoulder, a massive inferiority complex that compels him to hang around the allopathic forums bragging about Optometry. You won't see many other optometry/pharmacy/dentistry/podiatry students doing this. Why? Because they don't need to constantly make themselves feel better about their career choice.

You use the word bragging. I use the word educating. What makes me feel better about my career choice is when I see headlines like this: http://www.revophth.com/content/d/review_news/c/27738/

 

[Poetic Silence]

I wander into all sorts of forums on here to offer what I know about each profession. Doesn't mean I feel inferior to others. It means I see them as brothers and sisters of a time honored fraternity.

I see nothing wrong with what Scnurek is doing. The incorrect behavior I am witnessing is from those bashing him. That and that alone is the only thing wrong in this thread.

 

[Brotato]

I wander into all sorts of forums on here to offer what I know about each profession. Doesn't mean I feel inferior to others. It means I see them as brothers and sisters of a time honored fraternity.

I see nothing wrong with what Scnurek is doing. The incorrect behavior I am witnessing is from those bashing him. That and that alone is the only thing wrong in this thread.

Whatever you say. 99% of posters find him annoying as heck (even other OD students in the OD forums). If it makes you feel more of a gentleman to be the 1%, go ahead

 

[SpecterGT260]

Some states have an exact statute in the legislation for what medication(s) can be prescribed. Those restrictions are slowly being overturned and more general statutes are put into place.

Treatment with acetaminophen plus 30mg of codeine only for example is the case in North Dakota.

Its ridiculous that Cocaine is schedule 2 while Cannabis is schedule 1.



Haha and Marinol is Schedule 3.

But in all seriousness if the drug seekers come knockin' I can always say I'm not a real Doctor. So it works well both ways :O

nobody is questioning your commitment - they are questioning your claim that the Rx privileges are equal to that of MD/DO. By your own sources, they are not