What Step 1 Score Needed to Score IVY LEAGUE / TOP TIER Psych PGY-1!

[medsRus]

Well, the title says it all: What USMLE Step 1 score does an IMG (US citizen) need to score a top-notch psychiatry residency? Thanks!

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[Doc Samson]

Well, the title says it all: What USMLE Step 1 score does an IMG (US citizen) need to score a top-notch psychiatry residency? Thanks!

You'd need a lot more than a good step 1 score, namely extensive US clinical experience with glowing LORs and likely research in psychiatry with publication.

 

[2tall]

What does top tier mean? Who are the powers that be that decide whether something is top tier? What does in mean on the grand scheme of things (patient care)? Does is make one more marketable? Where does completing a residency at a top tier program matter? Just wondering.

Sorry to hijack the thread...but I felt okay since DS fully answered your question.

 

[Doc Samson]

What does top tier mean? Who are the powers that be that decide whether something is top tier? What does in mean on the grand scheme of things (patient care)? Does is make one more marketable? Where does completing a residency at a top tier program matter? Just wondering.

Sorry to hijack the thread...but I felt okay since DS fully answered your question.

The "top tier" thing gets asked avery year - I'd suggest a search for prior postings rather that go through the whole "yes it is/no it isn't" rigamarole again. In general, training at high-powered institutions is most helpful if you stay in academia (I know my residency and fellowship have opened a lot of doors for me). There are some patients that care where you trained - but you have to ask yourself if you really want to be treating that kind of patient.

 

[atsai3]

Well, the title says it all: What USMLE Step 1 score does an IMG (US citizen) need to score a top-notch psychiatry residency? Thanks!

Different 'top tier' programs have different internal standards for what they would accept in an IMG. On the Stanford web site, for example (and I will leave it to other folks to debate about whether or not Stanford's program is a 'top tier' program):

Is there a minimum USMLE score requirements?

None beyond passing USMLE scores. We are looking for demonstrably superior applicants who will make great doctors, not just great test-takers.

Does your program accept Foreign Medical Graduates (FMG)?

Since we are looking for the best PGY-1 candidates we will consider exceptional individuals trained outside the United States. However, it has been many years since an FMG was accepted as PGY-1 or PGY-2, who was not already a member of the Stanford research community.​

-AT.

 

[2tall]

The "top tier" thing gets asked avery year - I'd suggest a search for prior postings rather that go through the whole "yes it is/no it isn't" rigamarole again. In general, training at high-powered institutions is most helpful if you stay in academia (I know my residency and fellowship have opened a lot of doors for me). There are some patients that care where you trained - but you have to ask yourself if you really want to be treating that kind of patient.

That what I'm getting at...not which are "". You're right we've been there and done that. I always love how people place it in quotes.

The academia and the opening of the doors...the power, the fame...tell me more. If I attend a "bottom tier," do I weild less influence on the field?

 

[Doc Samson]

That what I'm getting at...not which are "". You're right we've been there and done that. I always love how people place it in quotes.

The academia and the opening of the doors...the power, the fame...tell me more. If I attend a "bottom tier," do I weild less influence on the field?

Academia means publishing. Publishing is easier if you co-author with "recognized authority in the field" type faculty, and much easier if you know the editor of the journal. These folks tend to congregate at "top tier" institutions and are often invited to contribute articles/chapters to various projects which they then farm out to their trainees and junior faculty who are eager for pubs - typically a very collegial and symbiotic relationship. Once you leave the ivy/ivory tower, other institutions (in my experience) are willing to trade-off "years of experience" for "perceived prestige of training" in terms of what level of job/pay they're willing to offer.

 

[TheWowEffect]

Academia means publishing. Publishing is easier if you co-author with "recognized authority in the field" type faculty, and much easier if you know the editor of the journal. These folks tend to congregate at "top tier" institutions and are often invited to contribute articles/chapters to various projects which they then farm out to their trainees and junior faculty who are eager for pubs - typically a very collegial and symbiotic relationship. Once you leave the ivy/ivory tower, other institutions (in my experience) are willing to trade-off "years of experience" for "perceived prestige of training" in terms of what level of job/pay they're willing to offer.

Most "middle-tier" programs also have faculty who are "recognized authority in the field" who can help you publish etc. You are right about a lot of talent congregating at so called "top tiers" but it does not mean that middle or lower tier are devoid of any experts in the field.

 

[Doc Samson]

Most "middle-tier" programs also have faculty who are "recognized authority in the field" who can help you publish etc. You are right about a lot of talent congregating at so called "top tiers" but it does not mean that middle or lower tier are devoid of any experts in the field.

I didn't say it did - but if you're looking to play the odds, being in a department with more heavy hitters certainly enhances your chances of finding one or two that you can work with. This certainly isn't an all-or-none argument.

 

[TheWowEffect]

I didn't say it did - but if you're looking to play the odds, being in a department with more heavy hitters certainly enhances your chances of finding one or two that you can work with. This certainly isn't an all-or-none argument.

Agree.

I would advise people to keep their options open. There are many great programs that may not be considered top-tier but have a really good mix of research and clinical experience. Of couse, if being associated with an ivy league program is your only priority, good luck with that too!

 

[medsRus]

So, what scores are needed for Top Tier for a IMG (us citizen)?

 

[2tall]

Academia means publishing. Publishing is easier if you co-author with "recognized authority in the field" type faculty, and much easier if you know the editor of the journal. These folks tend to congregate at "top tier" institutions and are often invited to contribute articles/chapters to various projects which they then farm out to their trainees and junior faculty who are eager for pubs - typically a very collegial and symbiotic relationship. Once you leave the ivy/ivory tower, other institutions (in my experience) are willing to trade-off "years of experience" for "perceived prestige of training" in terms of what level of job/pay they're willing to offer.

Thanks.

 

[Doc Samson]

So, what scores are needed for Top Tier for a IMG (us citizen)?

I'll refer you to post #2.

 

[billypilgrim37]

So, what scores are needed for Top Tier for a IMG (us citizen)?

To paraphrase DS, I think, if you're plugged into an amazing research/advocacy community and have extensive US clinical experience that vouches for the fact that you walk on water, you might get by with a 215. If you have neither of these things, a 290 would be worthless.

 

[Doc Samson]

To paraphrase DS, I think, if you're plugged into an amazing research/advocacy community and have extensive US clinical experience that vouches for the fact that you walk on water, you might get by with a 215. If you have neither of these things, a 290 would be worthless.

Yeah... what he said (except, I might bump that 215 to a 225).

Seriously though - I have sat on selection committees where we evaluated candidates with stellar credentials including #1 ranked medical student in their country and >250 step 1, but without US clinical (not observership, actual clinical) experience - they were felt to be too much of a risk and not ranked.

 

[cleareyedguy]

Beyond research and clinical reassurance, programs are much more willing to accept from medical schools with which they're familiar. If an American were to go to a school in Germany, Israel, or England, for example, programs would likely believe there isn't a problem.

In looking over some of the programs that are generally perecived to be top tier and have readily available lists of current residents, it seems that there are a smattering of IMG's. My hunch is that each of them was able to both reassure and bring something particular to the table.

http://www.columbiapsychiatry.org/residency/currres.html
http://www.nycornell.org/psychiatry/residency/residents.html
http://psych.ucsf.edu/education.aspx?id=1272
http://www.bcm.edu/psychiatry/?PMID=6938
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Psychiatry/for_med_students/residency_general/residents.html

Other programs (e.g., Duke, MGH-McLean, UCLA) don't list residents with their prior schools.