What the Heck is Grade Inflation?

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cystapharm

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I'm so jealous of people going to colleges that give them easy As? Why is this done and for what purpose does it serve? I'm busting my butt to make As at my college and I hear people worrying about getting too many As.

ie http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=436388


:smuggrin:
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well i guess some private school have grade inflation because people going there are usually "smart" and/or rich and they belive that they deserve an inflated grade because of that. i know that USC in california inflates the grades, imo this isnt fair but the people that go there are paying the price (around 50k INSTATE)
 
Private schools like Stanford traditionally had more relaxed policies about dropping courses which happened to inflate GPAs if students used the policies to their advantage. Stanford in particular has started to change their policies since their undergraduates were being punished in graduate school admissions when their GPAs were deflated under the assumption that inflation was so rampant at the university.

BTW, since USC is a private school, the comment that it's 50K in-state is misleading since the tuition is the same for everyone. State of residency doesn't matter for undergrad.
 
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MooseKing said:
well i guess some private school have grade inflation because people going there are usually "smart" and/or rich and they belive that they deserve an inflated grade because of that.
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Yeah -- at least one top school used to have the internal policy that anyone who was admitted was, by virtue of admittance, already at least a B student so that you had to work really hard to get below that floor, and the curve went up from there. But at most schools it is not as blatant or as administratively driven, and any grade inflation largely stems from (1) profs who don't want to deal with a horde of whiny undergrads complaining about their grades, so they grade/scale/curve generously, or (2) courses where your lowest test grade is dropped, or (3) courses where you can withdraw at any time without a mark on your transcript.
 
cystapharm said:
I'm so jealous of people going to colleges that give them easy As? Why is this done and for what purpose does it serve? I'm busting my butt to make As at my college and I hear people worrying about getting too many As.

ie http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=436388


:smuggrin:
Click to expand...

Grade inflation is where grades are abnormally high with regard to a course, institution, or even states, whereby other measures appear to be lower. For example in Florida as a state you see much higher GPA's from most Florida institutions but the overall MCAT score is lower than the national average. This has been consistent over the past several years. If you look at the MSAT you will note that matriculating med classes each year appear to have GPA's in 3.7 or 3.8 with MCATs of 30-32. If you look at other schools and states you are more likely to find even higher MCAT average scores for matriculants but lower overall GPA's.

If a med program wants to become more recognized then they will look to "admit by the numbers" wanting to have the highest GPA and MCAT. Does this that they have the best class? Some obviously think so. I would argue no. Consider state programs in Florida who until very recently, were required to admit only Florida residents. By definition, if undergrad schools in that state produces graduates with higher GPA's, ergo if a med school starting class had the higher GPA is was "better." But consider that many Florida residents leave the state for their bachelor's degree; going to state's/programs that dont give away top grades. If a Florida program admits a Florida resident from one of these programs then their overall entering class GPA will "suffer." The more of these students accepted to a class, the lower the matriculating GPA will be and the program looks weaker to applicants.

So should a Florida resident stay in state to get a high GPA to be more competitive? Hopefully the answer you would hear would be no, it doesnt matter, med school admissions offices compensate for this. My experience tells me that this is not the case in all instances. While the AAMC provides undergrad data to med programs on an annual and 3-year basis, few programs appear to use the data to do their homework. I know that this was a big factor used to identify applicants for an interview in my previous admissions office. It will continue to be a huge factor in my new office when allowed to begin operation after LCME accreditation. How many very good Florida applicants are "missed" in the interview process because they went to an out-of-state bachelors program and got a 3.4-3.5 GPA at a school that maintained integrity in the grading process. This 3.4-3.5 GPA from a school of integrity would be just as good as the 3.7+ from a Florida school. Much of the time this is supported by the fact that the in-state program produced a lower MCAT than the out-of-state program. I can continue with more at a later time, but I think that you get the drift -- besides, I hafta go and get other things done.
 
I don't agree about grade inflation at all FL schools. I go to UF and in the pre-med science courses, usually <25% get A's while traditionally at least 1/3 of the class withdraws (presumably getting lower than a C). The average after withdrawals is usually a C+. This is the case all the way from gen. chem., organic 1 and 2, and physics 1 and 2. I don't think it is grade inflation so much as survival of the fittest. And UF is not exactly admitting tons of sub-par students (middle 50% SAT of 1220-1390). Now I can't vouch for all the FL schools, but UF for one, does not have the type of grade inflation mentioned in REL's post. It just has a hell of a lot of students and therefore, more end up with high gpa's.
 
Also, tehre are 2 types of "grade inflation." True grade inflation would be profs giving out easy grades for whatever reason. As in, an 75% in an average-difficulty class = A. The other type comes from not grading classes on a strict curve, so that if 50% of people do really well in the class, they all get an A, rather than giving an A only to the top 10%, for example. I think a lot of the grade inflation at top schools is more of the second type since a majority of people tend to be smart and/or anal enough to do what it takes to do well in their classes.
 
michigator04 said:
I don't agree about grade inflation at all FL schools. I go to UF and in the pre-med science courses, usually <25% get A's while traditionally at least 1/3 of the class withdraws (presumably getting lower than a C). The average after withdrawals is usually a C+. This is the case all the way from gen. chem., organic 1 and 2, and physics 1 and 2. I don't think it is grade inflation so much as survival of the fittest. And UF is not exactly admitting tons of sub-par students (middle 50% SAT of 1220-1390). Now I can't vouch for all the FL schools, but UF for one, does not have the type of grade inflation mentioned in REL's post. It just has a hell of a lot of students and therefore, more end up with high gpa's.
Click to expand...

I just finished Physics 1 at UF over the summer, coming from another institution. I studied for one, maybe two hours the morning before each test and ended up with an uncurved 100%. When I see other students earning grades low enough to make the class averages in the 50s and 60s, I wonder whether or not curving to a C+ is a form of grade inflation, even if the grades still aren't very good. I guess the question is: do you all consider it to be grade inflation when students who would normally do poorly (get C's or D's) at another, more difficult college attend an easier college and get A's and B's? And is this compensated for by giving students who attend tough-grading universities a substantial "credit" in terms of mitigating their lower but probably equivalent (or even higher) GPA? Judging by REL's post above, I think the answer to this last question is, unfortunately and unluckily, no.

Also, please rest assured I'm not trying to demean UF in any way; just observing some differences between it and the school I attend.
 
Kraazy said:
Also, tehre are 2 types of "grade inflation." True grade inflation would be profs giving out easy grades for whatever reason. As in, an 75% in an average-difficulty class = A. The other type comes from not grading classes on a strict curve, so that if 50% of people do really well in the class, they all get an A, rather than giving an A only to the top 10%, for example. I think a lot of the grade inflation at top schools is more of the second type since a majority of people tend to be smart and/or anal enough to do what it takes to do well in their classes.
Click to expand...

I thought another type is where, for example, the mean for an exam is a 50% (set as a B-/C) and then everyone above a 75% receives an A
 
This leads into the question of what are grades supposed to measure? If they are a measure of your performance against your classmates, than inevitably students at top institutions will see their grades lower than if they attend their local CC. Another way to measure grades would be to have some kind of standardized test for each class that would level the playing field across the country, i.e. shelf exams. That is why you have the MCAT, which the med schools can use to evaluate your pre-med grades. However, it is impossible to generalize and say how the rest of your GPA correlates with another school's. There is too much diversity in class makeup, grading scales, and course content to really compare the apples to the oranges (although I am partial to oranges;) ).
 
I actually thought grade inflation has less to do with specific class changes, but more importantly with trends regarding institutions over time. Looking for grade inflation in a specific class is like looking at a tree and missing the forest. Check out this website:

http://gradeinflation.com/
 
Lshapley said:
I actually thought grade inflation has less to do with specific class changes, but more importantly with trends regarding institutions over time. Looking for grade inflation in a specific class is like looking at a tree and missing the forest. Check out this website:

http://gradeinflation.com/
Click to expand...

Eh... Texas has grade inflation? I really wouldn't call that grade inflation in the slightest. If you assume that the admissions policies have stayed the same, then sure, you'd be looking at certain schools oddly, but with Texas at least, I know that 65-70% of all students were in the top 10% of their high school class by law and it's been increasing over time.

Page 6: http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/HB588-Report9.pdf

So while grade inflation may be true, we can't just look at numbers.
 
I don't mean to mess with Texas, just putting the website out there.

Aside from Texas specifically, I would think though that unless a school has drastically changed the composition of its student body over the years, looking at the graduating gpa has some value. I think there was a time in ancient history when C really was the class average, but there is no way that happens anywhere. People would revolt!
 
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I really don't see what's with the concern about grade inflation. You guys will bitch over any little advantage that one may have over you guys no matter how small it is. I've been in a class where 75% on a test got an A, but then again A LOT of people were getting some low scores before the curve. If anything teachers probably curve to keep their rep's in good condition. Would you take a class with a teacher that fails more than half of the students?
 
Oh yeah, there's grade inflation in Texas. No doubt about that. You look specifically at numbers to determine grade inflation, because that's how it's defined. But grade inflation in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Even if later classes are increasingly smarter, the average student should still maintain that B/C in an inflation-controlled college. It's just that some professors perceive the final grade to be mastery of topic, which is what I presume most of the students want, instead of mastery of topic relative to rest of class, which is what normalizing does. I think these professors are the ones who contribute the most to inflation, especially in competitive schools that have an overall talented student body.

Also, students are getting more pissy and feeling more entitled. I've seen it at my school; people getting a B+ and arguing for an A. I read an article about an econ professor who just stopped giving Cs because she'd get hounded by students asking to have the grade bumped.
 
it's been said that my school has the lowest average gpa for people who get into med school, and it's because we have a killer chemistry department who thinks it's their job to weed out all the potential pre-meds... so i guess med schools do look at which schools don't have grade inflation... or maybe it's because most of the people here have terrific mcat's to counter their average gpa's
 
You really can't generalize "grade inflation" to an entire school. A large part of it depends on the individual professors. I goto a school that many would consider to have grade DEflation because we're reputed to be very difficult.

However, if you examine the classes you will realize that while the pre-reqs are extremely difficult (weed out classes), there are a few upper division classes that are easier to get A's in. You just have to find them.


In the end, grade inflation exists because professors feel that the students are higher caliber and don't deserve to be punished for challenging themselves.

Consider some honors classes where the classes start off with 50 students and is dwindled down to 10 by the end of the second week. The average SAT amongst these 10 students is probably about a 1500, and to make average grade a C/C+ is just unfair (considering they would had been the top out of 50, and now they're screwed).


Expanding on this idea, making the average grade of Harvard a C seem quite unfair because the average student at Harvard would probably be a top student at other institutions. Consequently certain schools inflate their grades.

Of course, most schools don't, even amongst Ivy Leagues. Schools like MIT, Cornell, and UChicago just let their reputation speak for themselves.
 
Arc said:
I really don't see what's with the concern about grade inflation. You guys will bitch over any little advantage that one may have over you guys no matter how small it is. I've been in a class where 75% on a test got an A, but then again A LOT of people were getting some low scores before the curve. If anything teachers probably curve to keep their rep's in good condition. Would you take a class with a teacher that fails more than half of the students?
Click to expand...

You miss the point -- curving to get a normal grade distribution is not grade inflation, even if a 75 becomes an A -- eg. if only 10% of the class gets A's there is no inflation, even if the average of that 10% was a 75. What is meant by grade inflation is more like the fiasco a certain Ivy League school got themselves into a decade ago when it was reported that over 90% of a graduating class graduated "with honors".
 
littlealex said:
You really can't generalize "grade inflation" to an entire school. A large part of it depends on the individual professors.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with littlealex. I don't exactly understand people talking about students who go to top tier schools having it easy in terms of G.P.A. For the most part, people who go to top tier schools not only are of high intellect, but deserve their high grades.
 
If you want to see Grade Deflation, enter as a Bio major at one of the UC schools with a med school. Notorious drop policies that punish students, also unkind professors who just care about their research.
 
Law2Doc said:
What is meant by grade inflation is more like the fiasco a certain Ivy League school got themselves into a decade ago when it was reported that over 90% of a graduating class graduated "with honors".
Click to expand...
I wonder what's supposed to be the "normal" percentage. Looking at my alma mater's stats, 58.6% of my class graduated with Latin Honors (GPA of 3.5 or higher). "All college honors" (whatever it is - Phi Beta Kappa?:confused:) was 19%.

How does this compare to other people's schools?
 
Cornell was 8%. Harvard topped out at 90%+. Most of the other Ivy League schools were in the 30-50% range.
 
Honors at my school is capped to percentage.
 
This may seem like a dumb question, but why is the national GPA average only a 3.1ish? That seems awfully low...
 
KnuxNole said:
This may seem like a dumb question, but why is the national GPA average only a 3.1ish? That seems awfully low...
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Sounds ok to me, a normal distribution in my sciences classes is set so that the mean is a 3.0

What did you think it was? :confused:
 
That is true, i can see how the mean can be around a 3.0, however i guess i was under the naive assumption that there a lot more people who get 3.8-4.0 range then people who get <2.0.
 
BigRedPremed said:
Cornell was 8%. Harvard topped out at 90%+. Most of the other Ivy League schools were in the 30-50% range.
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Cornell is a beast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That place will kill one's soul!!!!

Oh and that hill that you have to walk up to get to classes just adds insult to injury...big pain in the arse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
riceman04 said:
Cornell is a beast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That place will kill one's soul!!!!

Oh and that hill that you have to walk up to get to classes just adds insult to injury...big pain in the arse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

And sometimes it is the cause of the injury. You can really pull a hamstring climbing Libe Slope.
 
michigator04 said:
I don't agree about grade inflation at all FL schools. I go to UF and in the pre-med science courses, usually <25% get A's while traditionally at least 1/3 of the class withdraws (presumably getting lower than a C). The average after withdrawals is usually a C+. This is the case all the way from gen. chem., organic 1 and 2, and physics 1 and 2. I don't think it is grade inflation so much as survival of the fittest. And UF is not exactly admitting tons of sub-par students (middle 50% SAT of 1220-1390). Now I can't vouch for all the FL schools, but UF for one, does not have the type of grade inflation mentioned in REL's post. It just has a hell of a lot of students and therefore, more end up with high gpa's.
Click to expand...

UF us NO different than most of the Florida schools. I will provide some data for you to consider which is provided by the AAMC to all MD Admissions Offices. In order to determine what I call inflation, you do have to look at the undergraduate programs over the long term. Consider also that these are applicants to med school and are therefore probably a bit higher in the academic realms. My thoughts are that many applicants are science majors, many take generally the same required coursework to become eligible for med school, so there is some overall consistency in the numbers over time to begin to develop a pattern. Obviously a variable is numbers of applicants by program. Larger programs (UF) who put 350 apps per year will have a more consistent average than a smaller school (U Tampa) where there are only a few applicants each year. Generally looking at GPA vs MCAT then the program, you will then begin to discern a pattern. I'll get you some data to consider when I get a little more time.
 
There is also grade inflation at low-quality colleges and universities, either because the professors realize that they are not dealing with exceptionally well-educated students or there is pressure from the administration to keep students enrolled for the full four, five, or six years that they will be bringing in that sweet, sweet federal financial aid. This is especially true nowadays when public education generally sucks and yet everybody can get into some college somewhere. I went to Louisiana Tech, a university not known for exceptionally stringent admission standards. Just four miles down the road is Grambling State, a university that regularly trolls America for people who probably can't read their diploma.

The point of most universities, like Louisiana Tech and Grambling, is to shuffle the majority of their students into easy and essentially useless degree programs which equip the student for nothing but ensure a good payoff to the university. There are excellent programs for motivated students at these universities but first you have to get through the weed-out courses. Otherwise you become a Psychology or a Sociology major and party your way through your college years.

Higher education is largely a money-making scheme, even (especially) at prestigious univeristies.

Just a funny story. As some of you know I also attended the University of Vermont. When I was meeting with my advisor at the College of Engineering at Louisiana Tech before I transferred there he was giving me a hard time about some of the courses I wanted to transfer (All of which I had passed with excellent grades).

My wife, who was in the meeting, became irate and said, "Hey, we've both been kicked out of better schools than this one."

Maybe not the most tactful thing to say but correct, none-the-less.
 
REL said:
UF us NO different than most of the Florida schools. I will provide some data for you to consider which is provided by the AAMC to all MD Admissions Offices. In order to determine what I call inflation, you do have to look at the undergraduate programs over the long term. Consider also that these are applicants to med school and are therefore probably a bit higher in the academic realms. My thoughts are that many applicants are science majors, many take generally the same required coursework to become eligible for med school, so there is some overall consistency in the numbers over time to begin to develop a pattern. Obviously a variable is numbers of applicants by program. Larger programs (UF) who put 350 apps per year will have a more consistent average than a smaller school (U Tampa) where there are only a few applicants each year. Generally looking at GPA vs MCAT then the program, you will then begin to discern a pattern. I'll get you some data to consider when I get a little more time.
Click to expand...

I agree that there does seem to be some grade inflation at UF. I think one of the main reasons is that there are no minus grades. You can get a 90% A in a course and have a 4.0, whereas at another university that will give you an A- (3.67 or 3.75).

In all fairness, however, grade inflation seems to be itself, graded. Now this is by no means the end all be all of evidence but by looking at MDapplicants.com and comparing applicants from UF to say, UCF, there is a marked difference in GPA/MCAT correlation. I do not mean to start a flame war or put down any school, but there is a lack of consistency/sample size from other schools I've looked at (USF; FSU). UMiami has a decent sample size on MDapps and seems to have a similar degree of inflation seen at UF.
 
I think we can all agree that everybody went to the hardest school ever.
 
If UF has grade inflation, I bet some of it can be traced to a liberal withdrawal policy, which usually lets people drop a course until about 3 weeks before the end, for any reason. I've never had to drop one, but I am in the vast minority I think there. It would be interesting to try to correlate "inflated" gpa's with the number of withdrawals that person had.
 
michigator04 said:
If UF has grade inflation, I bet some of it can be traced to a liberal withdrawal policy, which usually lets people drop a course until about 3 weeks before the end, for any reason. I've never had to drop one, but I am in the vast minority I think there. It would be interesting to try to correlate "inflated" gpa's with the number of withdrawals that person had.
Click to expand...

Good points on +/- and withdrawals. There are several school policies which differ and cause some inequity when comparing overall programs. Luckily AAMC does provide data over a several-year span which helps to read the tea leaves on applicants. The best use of that data is not to compare programs, but to compare applicants from those programs to the norm for that program. It also helps to have your own data on how the applicants you admitted compared to that schools undergrad norm; and then see how they performed (academically) in your MD program. Few schools that I know of really look at this data in any depth.
 
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