What to do now? 7 IIs -> 5 waitlists

[Ikzencriel]

Hi guys,

I wanted some advice on what to do at this point. My first cycle hasn't gone as well as I hoped, and I definitely have to work on my interviewing skills.

My question now is this: do I look towards reapplying right now, do I wait out the waitlists, etc? What can I do to maximize my chances of getting off a waitlist?

LM: 76

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[Rachapkis]

I am reminded of an old Russian proverb: pray to God, but keep swimming toward shore. In other words, pray that the the ad com gods smile upon you, but keep working to make your application for the next cycle as good as it can be.

 

[rx001]

Your stats please. There will be lot of movement on waitlist starting April. If above 68/69 LM You might very well pick up an acceptance or two. My understanding of priority for getting acceptance is Stats>Ecs> interview. Ecs and interview could interchange their positions if low to medium level on Ecs. And mostly Interview is kind of pass fail. hold on.

 

[imbesrs]

Hi guys,

I wanted some advice on what to do at this point. My first cycle hasn't gone as well as I hoped, and I definitely have to work on my interviewing skills.

My question now is this: do I look towards reapplying right now, do I wait out the waitlists, etc? What can I do to maximize my chances of getting off a waitlist?

LM: 76

You still have 2 post-ii decisions to wait on and youre on 5 WL. If I was in your position, I personally would narrow down school choices between those 5WL and start firing up a Letter of (absolute) Intent to the one you want the most. For the other 4, you can submit a letter of continued interest (which may be negligible but at least your updating your profile bc you care). I assume your decision for the 2 places you haven't heard back from yet will come soon enough and hopefully you get an A from there

 

[rx001]

op, I did not read your post completely. I see you are at 76 LM. More than likely you should get one

 

[DokterMom]

You should model your behavior on the assumption that you will not be accepted anywhere and work on improving your application's shortcomings. This is NOT to say this is what I think will happen -- just what the most productive course of action will be in the event you do need to reapply.

So -- If your LizzyM is 76, your 'weak spot' will not be your academics or MCAT, so no need for action there. If you've done ZERO research, that's something to add, because most schools that you'd normally apply to with a 76 LM will be research-heavy. But that's only if you're truly WEAK on research. If you're a socially-uncomfortable introvert who already has substantial lab time, do NOT focus on adding more.

The more likely scenario is that it's your ECs and the interview. Fortunately, volunteering is the easiest hole to fill. Make sure you've covered the 40-hour shadowing core including shadowing at least one primary care doc. Then look for opportunities to volunteer. If you've got long-standing volunteering already, pump up your hours to show more commitment. If you lack clinical exposure, get some! Above all, don't lose time waiting for a traditional hospital volunteering gig. First off, they're usually pretty worthless. Second, if you're in a nice suburb, there's often a long line of pre-meds ahead of you. Third, they impress no one.

So look for opportunities that make people uncomfortable or that get your hands dirty -- free clinics, nursing homes, hospice, homeless shelters, prisons, memory care units, working with people with disabilities. Those kinds of programs really need the help and are much more impressive to AdComs. They'll also give you things to talk about in your interviews. If you're uncomfortable socially, try working with teens or young adults on the autism spectrum. You'd have a lot to offer that population and may find it beneficial to your own social skills.

And finally, take a close look at your school list and make sure it's appropriate and that you applied early enough. Seven interviews doesn't ring alarm bells, but you'll also want to check for mission-fit.

Good Luck!

 

[Ikzencriel]

You still have 2 post-ii decisions to wait on and youre on 5 WL. If I was in your position, I personally would narrow down school choices between those 5WL and start firing up a Letter of (absolute) Intent to the one you want the most. For the other 4, you can submit a letter of continued interest (which may be negligible but at least your updating your profile bc you care). I assume your decision for the 2 places you haven't heard back from yet will come soon enough and hopefully you get an A from there

Sorry for not adding more - the other 2 were rejections.

You should model your behavior on the assumption that you will not be accepted anywhere and work on improving your application's shortcomings. This is NOT to say this is what I think will happen -- just what the most productive course of action will be in the event you do need to reapply.

So -- If your LizzyM is 76, your 'weak spot' will not be your academics or MCAT, so no need for action there. If you've done ZERO research, that's something to add, because most schools that you'd normally apply to with a 76 LM will be research-heavy. But that's only if you're truly WEAK on research. If you're a socially-uncomfortable introvert who already has substantial lab time, do NOT focus on adding more.

The more likely scenario is that it's your ECs and the interview. Fortunately, volunteering is the easiest hole to fill. Make sure you've covered the 40-hour shadowing core including shadowing at least one primary care doc. Then look for opportunities to volunteer. If you've got long-standing volunteering already, pump up your hours to show more commitment. If you lack clinical exposure, get some! Above all, don't lose time waiting for a traditional hospital volunteering gig. First off, they're usually pretty worthless. Second, if you're in a nice suburb, there's often a long line of pre-meds ahead of you. Third, they impress no one.

So look for opportunities that make people uncomfortable or that get your hands dirty -- free clinics, nursing homes, hospice, homeless shelters, prisons, memory care units, working with people with disabilities. Those kinds of programs really need the help and are much more impressive to AdComs. They'll also give you things to talk about in your interviews. If you're uncomfortable socially, try working with teens or young adults on the autism spectrum. You'd have a lot to offer that population and may find it beneficial to your own social skills.

And finally, take a close look at your school list and make sure it's appropriate and that you applied early enough. Seven interviews doesn't ring alarm bells, but you'll also want to check for mission-fit.

Good Luck!

So a lot of my stuff was done over the course of the cycle, so I'm not sure what affected my application. Before I applied, I had about 80 shadowing hours, with a LOT more during the cycle (probably a couple hundred more), which I updated schools on. For volunteering, I had an OK amount before applying (300 hrs in a mix of clinical/non-clinical and 150 hours in hospital volunteering). I have a LOT of research from my undergraduate/graduate, with my name on a few papers and over a 1000 hours.

I should have more than enough volunteer hours at this point (that's what I decided to do for the majority of my gap year, so it's a lot more than it was previously - probably about 500+ clinical, 300+ non-clinical, 300+ kind of volunteer work, but paid because it was required).

I applied pretty early, most schools at the end of July. Applied to 23 schools I believe.

Sorry for not adding all this stuff initially.

 

[imbesrs]

Sorry for not adding more - the other 2 were rejections.

No worries. I know you're in a tough position right now given the uncertainty the WL movement has. I think the rest of my advice still has some merit. As a general note, youre very high stat so if there are low/mid tier schools that are WLing you it could be on the basis of their yield (will this high statter come in to our school when he likely has other top picks at better schools) so a letter saying "hi im still down to come if you let me in" can go a very long way.

Craft a very sincere LOIntent to the school you want to go to the most, and do your best to frame as why you fit the school! The language is important as its easy to slip up and frame it more as why the school fits you. Wishing you the best

 

[Ikzencriel]

No worries. I know you're in a tough position right now given the uncertainty the WL movement has. I think the rest of my advice still has some merit. As a general note, youre very high stat so if there are low/mid tier schools that are WLing you it could be on the basis of their yield (will this high statter come in to our school when he likely has other top picks at better schools) so a letter saying "hi im still down to come if you let me in" can go a very long way.

Craft a very sincere LOIntent to the school you want to go to the most, and do your best to frame as why you fit the school! The language is important as its easy to slip up and frame it more as why the school fits you. Wishing you the best

Thanks for the advice! There are two schools that I am very keen on LOIntenting, so I know I have to choose one right now. They are pretty close for me, but I'm leaning more towards one than the other. The issue I have is that the one that I'm leaning towards has a significantly higher MCAT average (still lower than mine, but not by much) than the other. So my worry is that I LOIntent them, but then don't get in, and because of my lack of commitment to the other one, don't get in there either. These are both IS so they would be my best shots in general.

 

[Goro]

Hi guys,

I wanted some advice on what to do at this point. My first cycle hasn't gone as well as I hoped, and I definitely have to work on my interviewing skills.

My question now is this: do I look towards reapplying right now, do I wait out the waitlists, etc? What can I do to maximize my chances of getting off a waitlist?

LM: 76

A) be patient
B) you are rejected until you get that accept email.
C) as such, you should be working on Plan B
D) for starters, work on interview skills.

 

[Ikzencriel]

A) be patient
B) you are rejected until you get that accept email.
C) as such, you should be working on Plan B
D) for starters, work on interview skills.

Thanks for the reply. For Plan B, would it be realistic to just reapply right away (if everything goes sour) or do you think that this cycle means that I should take another year off and then re-apply?

 

[Goro]

Thanks for the reply. For Plan B, would it be realistic to just reapply right away (if everything goes sour) or do you think that this cycle means that I should take another year off and then re-apply?

@gonnif!!!!

 

[mwsapphire]

A) be patient
B) you are rejected until you get that accept email.
C) as such, you should be working on Plan B
D) for starters, work on interview skills.

Does being WL'd have to do with interview skills? I always felt like interviews are pass/fail with a "fail" leading to an R if your application is weaker, and WL being more based on "passing" the interview, but timing or the rest of your app not being strong enough. Just speculating Ive always wondered about what a WL post interview is for...at some schools its promising and at another its a soft R.

 

[Ikzencriel]

1) The OP had 5 interviews which would say his stats, essays, and EC were solid to acceptable (2 may be solid with one being ok and that is enough to get on WL)
2) Interview may not be as strong, and 5 interviews may be indicative of that
3) this is an Olympic class event that may have 20 finalists in the last event but only 3 get medals. Sometimes it isnt that you have an issue but others were just so outstanding
4) What has OP done to improve application this year? No research.
5) Many medical schools offer specific pages of advice for reapplicants, something I find few students look into. This would be true whether or not you are a specific reapplicant to that school. Below are links to a few and please note most say the most common mistake among reapplicants is applying again too soon

Should I do a Masters in my gap year / WAMC / advice please


University of Miami Miller School of Medicine
Reapplicants - Miller School of Medicine Admissions
Roughly 20% of the students who apply to the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine in any given year are reapplicants. Data that we have collected indicate they have a lower acceptance rate than do first time applicants

University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Heath
http://www.med.wisc.edu/education/md/admissions/reapplying/31716
(emphasis in the original)
There should be significant improvements in your application before reapplying. This might mean not reapplying the very next year. The most common error made by reapplicants is that they submit their next application too soon.

The Ohio State University College of Medicine
Interview Tips | Ohio State College of Medicine
To maximize the chances of giving off this perception, you must allow enough time before reapplying. This will undoubtedly be the hardest part of the process, but be patient; if you rush it, you may join the ranks of those who are applying for a third time.

University of Minnesota Medical School
Re-Applicant
Though you can submit a second application immediately after your first application, you may want to consider waiting a year if you feel you need more experiences that help you demonstrate the essential and desired qualities of an ideal medical student.

University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Reapplicants | Office of Admissions
http://www.med.unc.edu/admit/requirements/our-ideal-candidate/selection-criteria

Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine
http://medicine.vtc.vt.edu/admissions/re-applicants/

LSU Health Shreveport
http://www.lsuhscshreveport.edu/Education/som/admissions/reapplicants/index

University of Missouri
http://medicine.missouri.edu/admissions/nontraditional.html

East Carolina University, Brody School of Medicine
Admissions

Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine (UNTHSC)
Common Mistakes Made by Applicants - Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine

Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
http://www.com.msu.edu/Admissions/Guidelines_For_Success/Reapplication.htm

Wow thanks for the detailed reply!

1) 7 interviews, just to clarify.

2) I think that this is definitely true - I need to improve my interview skills.

3) Noted.

4) During this cycle, I've done a ton of extra volunteering and shadowing (including leadership positions and LoRs), but you're right, no research.

5) Thanks for all the links! I'll have to look through them.

 

[Goro]

Does being WL'd have to do with interview skills? I always felt like interviews are pass/fail with a "fail" leading to an R if your application is weaker, and WL being more based on "passing" the interview, but timing or the rest of your app not being strong enough. Just speculating Ive always wondered about what a WL post interview is for...at some schools its promising and at another its a soft R.

WL could mean an interviewee was "meh". Not strong enough for acceptance, but not weak enough for a reject.

Not everything is black and white

 

[Ikzencriel]

lastly, you have 5 WL, and are likely to get an acceptance. Half of matriculants get a SINGLE acceptance

<3

 

[gyngyn]

As a general note, youre very high stat so if there are low/mid tier schools that are WLing you it could be on the basis of their yield (will this high statter come in to our school when he likely has other top picks at better schools) so a letter saying "hi im still down to come if you let me in" can go a very long way.

A school would not interview someone with high stats that they believe would not attend. IS publics, in particular, will interview high stats IS applicants because they are usually cheaper and close to home. There are some notable states that are the exception.

Schools don't waste money on a interview and then WL a top candidate.

 

[imbesrs]

A school would not interview someone with high stats that they believe would not attend. IS publics, in particular, will interview high stats IS applicants because they are usually cheaper and close to home. There are some notable states that are the exception.

Schools don't waste money on a interview and then WL a top candidate.

Noted!

 

[ZaZa24]

A school would not interview someone with high stats that they believe would not attend. IS publics, in particular, will interview high stats IS applicants because they are usually cheaper and close to home. There are some notable states that are the exception.

Schools don't waste money on a interview and then WL a top candidate.

As a relatively higher stat applicant who is currently on the waitlist at their state school, would you be open to sharing which states seem to be the exceptions to this rule?

 

[gyngyn]

As a relatively higher stat applicant who is currently on the waitlist at their state school, would you be open to sharing which states seem to be the exceptions to this rule?

CA is the most clear example.
States with only one or two public schools tend to be more generous to their native sons and daughters.

 

[proudofmykids]

Your stats please. There will be lot of movement on waitlist starting April. If above 68/69 LM You might very well pick up an acceptance or two. My understanding of priority for getting acceptance is Stats>Ecs> interview. Ecs and interview could interchange their positions if low to medium level on Ecs. And mostly Interview is kind of pass fail. hold on.

I'd love to believe your prioritized order for WL, but where have your seen reference this?

 

[imbesrs]

I'd love to believe your prioritized order for WL, but where have your seen reference this?

Some schools do ranked WL.

 

[Icebird]

If your alignment is chaotic neutral you can send 5 letters of intent

 

[CatDad26]

had 5 II's --> 4 WL so I feel your pain!

 

[Jungkookie]

i like that russian proverb above! going to rememeber that. I also say hope for the best but prepare for the worst OP! right now it's just awaiting game (besides letter of intent) so might as well start thinking ahead and restrategizing for next application cycle. I wouldn't say you need to wait a year to apply again. I would say you had a strong application, and in the worst case if you do need to do another round - interview prep interview prep interview prep!!

best of luck OP!!!

 

[SweetBurger]

hi also in your position but LM is not as high. this **** sucks

 

[Dral]

Work on interview skills now, regardless. Local toastmasters...whatever it takes. If not, it will haunt you again when you interview for residency spots. Take it from someone who went through a similar thing. I had 5 or 6 interviews with no acceptances. I finally got one late. I suspected interview skills. I didn’t do anything about it. Fast forward to residency interviews. It was Derm, but still...15 interviews and I didn’t match. Luckily I scrambled into a Derm spot. Again, with that many interviews, it had to be interview skills at least in part. Luckily the fellowship trail somehow went well for me.

I am not very socially awkward, but I know for whatever reason it consistently takes people a time to warm up to me. In other words, I’m not the kind of person who lights up a room when I walk in. I should have worked on those skills during med school. Learn from my mistake.

 

[Aleaz]

Your added info is great--I think if I was in your shoes...you have a good chance of acceptance. I'd hold on. I would ALSO take a chance and take the #1 pick of yours and write them an updated, sincere 'you are my first choice' and re-iterate what you have to offer AND why they are your number one choice. It will update your file. I'd also stress that your letter is sincere, and a bold move...that you are willing to take a chance and open up about your true aspirations above and beyond the interview 'protocol'--where everyone pretty much plays a role that truly is not them...yet everyone does it. good luck.

 

[proudofmykids]

A school would not interview someone with high stats that they believe would not attend. IS publics, in particular, will interview high stats IS applicants because they are usually cheaper and close to home. There are some notable states that are the exception.

Schools don't waste money on a interview and then WL a top candidate.

Add Illinois if it isn’t on the exception list for IS state schools applicants. Not even an II. (But had other T10 success)

 

[deleted804295]

Sorry for not adding more - the other 2 were rejections.



So a lot of my stuff was done over the course of the cycle, so I'm not sure what affected my application. Before I applied, I had about 80 shadowing hours, with a LOT more during the cycle (probably a couple hundred more), which I updated schools on. For volunteering, I had an OK amount before applying (300 hrs in a mix of clinical/non-clinical and 150 hours in hospital volunteering). I have a LOT of research from my undergraduate/graduate, with my name on a few papers and over a 1000 hours.

I should have more than enough volunteer hours at this point (that's what I decided to do for the majority of my gap year, so it's a lot more than it was previously - probably about 500+ clinical, 300+ non-clinical, 300+ kind of volunteer work, but paid because it was required).

I applied pretty early, most schools at the end of July. Applied to 23 schools I believe.

Sorry for not adding all this stuff initially.

Send LOI to the remaining schools. Sorry the cycle has been tough, the good news is it has nothing to do with your application.

You need to work on your interview skills. I would recommend joining a debate club in the time being.

 

[kittytower]

OP, I'm in a similar position right now. Being waitlisted, on top of the current uncertainty bought about by COVID-19, has started to take a bit of a toll on my mental health. My suggestions are to keep your head up and hope for the best, but to also have a plan B and to continue improving your application for the future. Also, make sure to take care of your mental and physical health. If you have some extra free time, doing home workouts or picking up a solo hobby will go a long way to give you some control in your life. I wish you the best in this cycle and hope that you get that A soon.