What to do when your Carib MD friend bashes DO school

[Member10billion]

My very close friend is attending a Caribbean MD school now. She was very supportive throughout the entire process. However, now that I have been accepted at a DO school, all she can talk about is how Carib MDs are better than DOs, have better residencies and and status, etc. She also would tell me the story of how her Carib MD peer failed out of school and went to a DO school because it was easier.

So, what should I say/do? I don't want to start a "who's better" fight...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

Laugh it off. I have a feeling when you matriculate, you wont have the time for it to matter. Not sure how your friend has the time to bash...

 

[Mad Jack]

Wait till Match Day and see if she is singing the same tune.

 

[costales]

Tell her good luck. And ask her to name the DO school.

 

[MJS4878]

Since this topic seems to have been popular the last few days I decided to talk with a couple of the DO's I work with at a hospital, both of which are general surgeons.


I simply asked them if they thought it would be to my advantage to attend a Caribbean MD school over the DO school I plan to attend. One simply said "No, I would never recommend going abroad to study medicine" The other responded by laughing and saying "Oh, you were serious?"

 

[Member10billion]

Laugh it off. I have a feeling when you matriculate, you wont have the time for it to matter. Not sure how your friend has the time to bash...

That's what I have been doing, but it's so irritating!

 

[bionerd89]

My very close friend is attending a Caribbean MD school now. She was very supportive throughout the entire process. However, now that I have been accepted at a DO school, all she can talk about is how Carib MDs are better than DOs, have better residencies and and status, etc. She also would tell me the story of how her Carib MD peer failed out of school and went to a DO school because it was easier.

So, what should I say/do? I don't want to start a "who's better" fight...

How does that topic even get brought up? Is she that insecure with her own decision that she must bash on other people's decision? Maybe you should straight up tell her what shes doing isn't nice and if she refuses to listen maybe you need to make some more friends that are more understanding and supportive

 

[medickdb]

How does that topic even get brought up? Is she that insecure with her own decision that she must bash on other people's decision? Maybe you should straight up tell her what shes doing isn't nice and if she refuses to listen maybe you need to make some more friends that are more understanding and supportive

People do this stuff all the time in order to validate themselves in the face of their own insecurities. She's most likely doing it as a way of making her feel more secure in her own decision to attend a Caribbean school.

Those who care about what you choose to do in your own life are petty. If they choose to belittle their potential future colleagues in this manner, then what does that tell you about how they might approach patient care?

From what I've seen, less than confident people generate falsely elevated egos, aggressive attitudes, and the like as means to deflect from their deficiencies. They like to think people care about them more than they actually do.

 

[TreadLightly]

She also would tell me the story of how her Carib MD peer failed out of school and went to a DO school because it was easier.

= dropped out of DeVry and decided to go home because $8 gallons of milk were getting expensive.

 

[mnsman]

Unfriend her on facebook.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

You call this person a "friend"? You need a better friend.

 

[joyfulll]

great Chicago hospital, my old IMD (not Car Islands) anesthesiologist I volunteer for told me to apply DO (not IMD) IF I WANT TO MATCH as their anesth department always has a few DO residents, no IMD's... also another IMD (not Car Isl) friend doing residency in a different Chicago hospital says that she works with a few DO residents and LEARNS so much from them

 

[WalSlave]

People do this stuff all the time in order to validate themselves in the face of their own insecurities. She's most likely doing it as a way of making her feel more secure in her own decision to attend a Caribbean school.

Took the words right out of my mouth! I find that people who go out of their way to bash you and your academic decisions continually and without warrant, are typically extremely insecure with their own lives/choices/whatever. The fact that she started all of this up the moment you were accepted tells me that she has some serious jealousy issues regarding your acceptance. I wouldn't be shocked if she was possibly rejected from DO school as well and just isn't telling you.

Also, please ask her the name of that DO school who accepted her failed Caribbean student friend so we can all add it to our AACOMAS apps as a backup. =D

 

[Member10billion]

Tell her good luck. And ask her to name the DO school.

I've asked her what school the Carib fail out goes to and she doesn't know. The story (in general) sound a little fishy to me... I think it may be a story fabricated by her Carib class to make them feel better about their degree.

 

[costales]

Well, hell hath no fury like a DO school applicant scorned.

 

[WhyDoWeFall]

Going to a specific school doesn't automatically make you a better physician than the other. I have seen good physicians in the ER that come from DO/In-state MD/Caribbean MD and bad ones too. What really matters is what you take out of medical school and how well you learn. Debating about Caribbean MD/DO schools is pointless. Both have their ups and downs. "Oh but I have an MD" vs. "Oh but I am in-state". Both won't matter if you bomb your interview/boards. My advice is remind her the school location/name doesn't make you, your hard work does. At the end of the day you are both Doctors, the only difference is which one knows their stuff.

 

[edgerock24]

great Chicago hospital, my old IMD (not Car Islands) anesthesiologist I volunteer for told me to apply DO (not IMD) IF I WANT TO MATCH as their anesth department always has a few DO residents, no IMD's... also another IMD (not Car Isl) friend doing residency in a different Chicago hospital says that she works with a few DO residents and LEARNS so much from them

Is that English?

 

[medickdb]

Is that English?

I ask myself that same question regularly in this forum.

 

[coolingglasses]

Is that English?

I'm going with inappropriate use of AAA (acronyms and abbrv.)

 

[NeuroLAX]

Your response should be:

Or this:

 

[Goro]

A) Ignore her
B) If she continues, bring out the Residency match rates for DO vs Carib students.
C) If she still persists, find another friend. She's disrespecting your career choice.

My very close friend is attending a Caribbean MD school now. She was very supportive throughout the entire process. However, now that I have been accepted at a DO school, all she can talk about is how Carib MDs are better than DOs, have better residencies and and status, etc. She also would tell me the story of how her Carib MD peer failed out of school and went to a DO school because it was easier.

So, what should I say/do? I don't want to start a "who's better" fight...

 

[joyfulll]

Is that English?

was I suppose to say IMG instead of IMD? are you talking about my sentence structure?

 

[joyfulll]

Is that English?

thanks for support, guys! I moved into the U.S. by myself with NO English 5 years ago...but I did get 3.9ish GPA in here and got into multiple DO schools, so my English is not unbearable... Since I noticed that people don't use very formal English and proper sentence structure in this forum, I thought it's OK to write in any way you like. Oh well...

 

[Member10billion]

was I suppose to say IMG instead of IMD? are you talking about my sentence structure?

It's your sentence structure and abbreviations. Kind of hard to understand. :-/
I think you were saying that in Chicago, an IMG anesthesiology told you to apply DO not IMG because DOs have better opportunities.

 

[Member10billion]

thanks for support, guys! I moved into the U.S. by myself with NO English 5 years ago...but I did get 3.9ish GPA in here and got into multiple DO schools, so my English is not unbearable... Since I noticed that people don't use very formal English and proper sentence structure in this forum, I thought it's OK to write in any way you like. Oh well...

Congrats on your multiple acceptances!

 

[group_theory]

In the past few years, my fellowship program and my residency program have been getting pressure from administration to rank American graduates (preference to US MDs but we convinced the dean and head of GME to also include US DOs since we have had some great DOs in the recent past) over FMGs and US IMGs. And I've noticed for the past few years that we have fewer and fewer FMGs and US IMGs on our rank list.

I've worked with some awesome US IMGs and FMGs so I think we are missing out on some talent if we blindly set preference for US graduates over foreign medical school graduates (instead of ranking based on who we like), but that's the trend at our institutions (not limited to my fellowship or residency). I suspect that might be the trend at other programs as well.

So in a few years, as more MD students graduate, as more DO students graduate - those in the Caribbean might feel a squeeze. Although purely speculative at this point (and I don't have any data to point at), that's the impression that I'm getting (and the pressure that my PDs are feeling from higher up)

 

[TXKnight]

I always use google translate when I post anything here. As a matter of fact, I'm using it yesterday.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Laugh your ass off so severely that you puke out a lung.
No really, wish her the best and remind her that she should be studying to get a 90th percentile usmle score so that she can peacefully find her way into a fm residency in Wyoming.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

In the past few years, my fellowship program and my residency program have been getting pressure from administration to rank American graduates (preference to US MDs but we convinced the dean and head of GME to also include US DOs since we have had some great DOs in the recent past) over FMGs and US IMGs. And I've noticed for the past few years that we have fewer and fewer FMGs and US IMGs on our rank list.

I've worked with some awesome US IMGs and FMGs so I think we are missing out on some talent if we blindly set preference for US graduates over foreign medical school graduates (instead of ranking based on who we like), but that's the trend at our institutions (not limited to my fellowship or residency). I suspect that might be the trend at other programs as well.

So in a few years, as more MD students graduate, as more DO students graduate - those in the Caribbean might feel a squeeze. Although purely speculative at this point (and I don't have any data to point at), that's the impression that I'm getting (and the pressure that my PDs are feeling from higher up)

If you don't mind, what specialty are you pursuing?

 

[user3]

In the past few years, my fellowship program and my residency program have been getting pressure from administration to rank American graduates (preference to US MDs but we convinced the dean and head of GME to also include US DOs since we have had some great DOs in the recent past) over FMGs and US IMGs. And I've noticed for the past few years that we have fewer and fewer FMGs and US IMGs on our rank list.

I've worked with some awesome US IMGs and FMGs so I think we are missing out on some talent if we blindly set preference for US graduates over foreign medical school graduates (instead of ranking based on who we like), but that's the trend at our institutions (not limited to my fellowship or residency). I suspect that might be the trend at other programs as well.

So in a few years, as more MD students graduate, as more DO students graduate - those in the Caribbean might feel a squeeze. Although purely speculative at this point (and I don't have any data to point at), that's the impression that I'm getting (and the pressure that my PDs are feeling from higher up)

When allopathic programs say "American graduates" are they usually referring to just US MD's? It seems like they say this, and then DO's go by the wayside with IMG's and FMG's while the fact that they are also US students gets overlooked.

 

[ChineseKid]

Tell her mmmmhmm and carry on.
Some stuff aren't worth arguing.

Sent from my SGH-T889V using Tapatalk

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Direct her to my thread DO vs CaribMD a few lines down this one.

 

[medickdb]

I can't stand the butchering of the English language much longer. I question how some people were able to write coherent personal statements and secondaries.

 

[gocougs339]

I never understand these MD vs DO threads. If you got into a DO school you don't need to compare yourself to MDs. You got into medical school and at the end of day you're going to be a doctor. Be proud of yourself and quit trying to compare yourself to a MD. If you're that worried about it then spend your time preparing for the boards. If you focus on being the best doctor you can be, the letters after your name won't matter.

 

[Member10billion]

I can't stand the butchering of the English language much longer. I question how some people were able to write coherent personal statements and secondaries.

wat r u saing. i cnt speek englis vury wel

 

[Member10billion]

I never understand these MD vs DO threads. If you got into a DO school you don't need to compare yourself to MDs. You got into medical school and at the end of day you're going to be a doctor. Be proud of yourself and quit trying to compare yourself to a MD. If you're that worried about it then spend your time preparing for the boards. If you focus on being the best doctor you can be, the letters after your name won't matter.

Hey, hey! I'm PROUD to be going to a DO school. It just bothers me that my best friend since high school has been belittling my educational goals. I have been nothing but supportive of her and her goals... is it really too much to ask the same in return? I guess so...

 

[gocougs339]

Hey, hey! I'm PROUD to be going to a DO school. It just bothers me that my best friend since high school has been belittling my educational goals. I have been nothing but supportive of her and her goals... is it really too much to ask the same in return? I guess so...

Fair enough. However if a friend doesn't support your life goals, are they really your friend? I have plenty of friends from UG that are going PA or Chiropractor. I don't think any less of them...

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Hey, hey! I'm PROUD to be going to a DO school. It just bothers me that my best friend since high school has been belittling my educational goals. I have been nothing but supportive of her and her goals... is it really too much to ask the same in return? I guess so...

Not to sound sexist, but it is generally accepted and recognized that women are prone to more emotional outbursts and prone to more insecurities in our society.

1. Notice how she was supportive UNTIL you actually were accepted into a DO school. My own older, insecure sister did not put a face until after I got my MCAT score in which I did exceedingly well despite all the negativity I was spouting after I took the exam.

2. If she's been belittling your education SINCE high school, it means she is upset that you have been able to do things she hasn't. She's constantly comparing herself to you and possibly others in order to validate her own accomplishments which is not probably much. Did you know when I got an interview at a good school my friend was like "oh don't get too happy because they can reject you due to your gpa" Who the fck calls themselves a friend and tells you something like this?

I learned that in this world, real friends are hard to come by. Everyone is gonna be looking out for themselves. No one will give a **** about your accomplishments besides most of your family. The most you will attract are haters, because let's face it---medical students are the elite minority in society.

You can either fall for her trap when she makes comments and google up some statistics if you want to shut her up and ultimately piss her off which will cause her to distance herself, or you can simply distance yourself when you start school since you'll be very...irritable when you get hit with loads of medical school material and the last thing you wanna do is argue about petty **** like this.

 

[Member10billion]

Not to sound sexist, but it is generally accepted and recognized that women are prone to more emotional outbursts and prone to more insecurities in our society.

1. Notice how she was supportive UNTIL you actually were accepted into a DO school. My own older, insecure sister did not put a face until after I got my MCAT score in which I did exceedingly well despite all the negativity I was spouting after I took the exam.

2. If she's been belittling your education SINCE high school, it means she is upset that you have been able to do things she hasn't. She's constantly comparing herself to you and possibly others in order to validate her own accomplishments which is not probably much. Did you know when I got an interview at a good school my friend was like "oh don't get too happy because they can reject you due to your gpa" Who the fck calls themselves a friend and tells you something like this?

I learned that in this world, real friends are hard to come by. Everyone is gonna be looking out for themselves. No one will give a **** about your accomplishments besides most of your family. The most you will attract are haters, because let's face it---medical students are the elite minority in society.

You can either fall for her trap when she makes comments and google up some statistics if you want to shut her up and ultimately piss her off which will cause her to distance herself, or you can simply distance yourself when you start school since you'll be very...irritable when you get hit with loads of medical school material and the last thing you wanna do is argue about petty **** like this.

Wooooooo elite minority! lol

In all seriousness, this is excellent advice. A few years from now, if she is who I think she is, none of this will matter. Until then.... it just plain sucks. I don't want to lose her as a friend.
She didn't apply to US med schools (she said she got a 30 on the MCAT. HAH! yeah, right) and was always telling me not to go to the island school. When I was accepted to DO school, she started this crap.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Wooooooo elite minority! lol

In all seriousness, this is excellent advice. A few years from now, if she is who I think she is, none of this will matter. Until then.... it just plain sucks. I don't want to lose her as a friend.
She didn't apply to US med schools (she said she got a 30 on the MCAT. HAH! yeah, right) and was always telling me not to go to the island school. When I was accepted to DO school, she started this crap.

Ever heard the saying "misery loves company"? No one in their right mind would get a 30 on their MCAT and neglect applying to US MD schools. Listen, you seem to be a good person for tolerating her nonsense. It's easy for anyone on SDN to say "send her to hell!" or "burn this heretic at the stake...she's probably a witch!" But when you have years of friendship, things can get complex.

If you truly want to keep her as a friend while defending your dignity, when she tells you "xyjdwjdpiajdaiwjd" because that's literally all she is saying....reply with "ok cool, so I guess we'll just agree to disagree. We'll both be doctors at the end of the day and that's all there is to it. You're happy I'm happy, now can we please just focus on anatomy? lol"

That should end the uncomfortable topic. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

 

[SunsFun]

In the past few years, my fellowship program and my residency program have been getting pressure from administration to rank American graduates (preference to US MDs but we convinced the dean and head of GME to also include US DOs since we have had some great DOs in the recent past) over FMGs and US IMGs. And I've noticed for the past few years that we have fewer and fewer FMGs and US IMGs on our rank list.

I've worked with some awesome US IMGs and FMGs so I think we are missing out on some talent if we blindly set preference for US graduates over foreign medical school graduates (instead of ranking based on who we like), but that's the trend at our institutions (not limited to my fellowship or residency). I suspect that might be the trend at other programs as well.

So in a few years, as more MD students graduate, as more DO students graduate - those in the Caribbean might feel a squeeze. Although purely speculative at this point (and I don't have any data to point at), that's the impression that I'm getting (and the pressure that my PDs are feeling from higher up)

I've been hearing a similar story from my buddy who is MS4 in Caribbean. He is advising his brother and everyone to reapply and go US MD/DO rather than go Caribbean. Apparently, it has been getting worse and worse every year for them.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

I've been hearing a similar story from my buddy who is MS4 in Caribbean. He is advising his brother and everyone to reapply and go US MD/DO rather than go Caribbean. Apparently, it has been getting worse and worse every year for them.

Even though this is trivial, but I've seen my friend signing up online for the USMLE and I saw they categorized MD/DO together and then put IMG/FMG under a separate category.

American graduates will always be the gold standard in...America lol

 

[user3]

I've been hearing a similar story from my buddy who is MS4 in Caribbean. He is advising his brother and everyone to reapply and go US MD/DO rather than go Caribbean. Apparently, it has been getting worse and worse every year for them.

I really don't understand how osteopathic averages are still relatively low given the vast number of unsuccessful allopathic applicants, increased awareness of the DO option, and increased awareness of the risk associated with going Carib. Theoretically, if every AMCAS applicant applied to DO schools as a backup, averages would skyrocket overnight and anyone with less than 3.5/27 would probably have a difficult time getting in.

 

[SurgeDO]

who cares.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

I really don't understand how osteopathic averages are still relatively low given the vast number of unsuccessful allopathic applicants, increased awareness of the DO option, and increased awareness of the risk associated with going Carib. Theoretically, if every AMCAS applicant applied to DO schools as a backup, averages would skyrocket overnight and anyone with less than 3.5/27 would probably have a difficult time getting in.

Because those of us who understand what DO schools really are, are not representative of the general premed population. The majority of premeds are not educated on osteopathic medicine. They don't equate DO as a respectable version of being a physician due to hearsay. There are still many others who's NEVER heard of DOs. While awareness is increasing, we still have a lot of ways to go.

If I was president of AOA, I would really push my DO schools to do presentations at colleges, to have more open houses and really educate people. We are still too obscure in the eyes of applicants. Caribbean schools are 10x more popular because they drown us in advertisements and marketing.

My parents laugh at me when I say this since they call me an optimistic dreamer, but I do want to get an MBA once I am an attending and my schedule allows. I do want to get into investments, open up a DO school one day and if necessary, I will advertise my life away. I'm not gonna wait till students come to me asking about ZombieCOM, I will go to them while their freshmen, sophomores, etc, and ensure premed advisors stay up to date with their information.

 

[costales]

I've been hearing a similar story from my buddy who is MS4 in Caribbean. He is advising his brother and everyone to reapply and go US MD/DO rather than go Caribbean. Apparently, it has been getting worse and worse every year for them.

The days of foreign-trained MDs waltzing into unfilled U.S. residencies will soon be coming to an end. This is the consensus among both the USMD and IMG folks I work with. There is a method behind the med school expansion madness.

 

[Ximedus]

The days of foreign-trained MDs waltzing into unfilled U.S. residencies will soon be coming to an end. This is the consensus among both the USMD and IMG folks I work with. There is a method behind the med school expansion madness.

what do you mean there is a method behind this?

 

[darktooth]

she's insecure about her decision to go to the carib.

 

[Bill Brasky]

My parents laugh at me when I say this since they call me an optimistic dreamer, but I do want to get an MBA once I am an attending and my schedule allows. I do want to get into investments, open up a DO school one day and if necessary, I will advertise my life away. I'm not gonna wait till students come to me asking about ZombieCOM, I will go to them while their freshmen, sophomores, etc, and ensure premed advisors stay up to date with their information.

Opening up another DO school? Prepare to be skewered by this board...

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Opening up another DO school? Prepare to be skewered by this board...

Well I don't really get phased by speculative opinions that are based on 2013-2014 mindsets. By the time I would ever consider opening up a school is like what, 25-30 years down the line? Who knows if its the right choice then or even if its possible or if DOs are assimilated by the Borg.

When its 2035, if still am considering it, then I'll be open to relevant criticism from relevant people. Until then, I'll continue to be an optimistic dreamer and feel good about my long-term goals which keep me motivated and anyone in this time period who bashes me will just get a bunch of LOL's from me