What to Include on the "What Has Changed Since Last Year?" Reapplicant Essay

[MPHOrtho13]

Hi SDNers,

First and foremost, best of luck to everyone who is applying this cycle!

One secondary question that I'm dreading is, "Have you previously applied to our school? If so, please detail what has changed since you last applied."

Aside from re-taking the MCAT (I don't have my score back yet... but I have a feeling that I tanked the PS section... again), I don't have anything 'new' to discuss. Since graduating with my masters last year (which was on last year's app), I've continued putting in thousands of hours volunteering, publishing research papers, completing triathlons for charity, etc. These are all wonderful commitments, but none of them are 'different'.

Once change is that a few weeks ago, I moved to a new state to care for my terminally ill grandpa (he was a former physician and has been one of my greatest supporters), so I've recently become unemployed. I plan on finding a job and shadowing an osteopathic physician ASAP, but I doubt that I'll have that set up in time to write about it in my secondaries.

I'm thinking of just writing how I've continued to demonstrate my commitment to medicine through research, volunteering, etc. but I worry that it will be too 'boring'. Has anyone else ever faced this predicament? What would you discuss?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

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[familyaerospace]

Hi SDNers,

First and foremost, best of luck to everyone who is applying this cycle!

One secondary question that I'm dreading is, "Have you previously applied to our school? If so, please detail what has changed since you last applied."

Aside from re-taking the MCAT (I don't have my score back yet... but I have a feeling that I tanked the PS section... again), I don't have anything 'new' to discuss. Since graduating with my masters last year (which was on last year's app), I've continued putting in thousands of hours volunteering, publishing research papers, completing triathlons for charity, etc. These are all wonderful commitments, but none of them are 'different'.

Once change is that a few weeks ago, I moved to a new state to care for my terminally ill grandpa (he was a former physician and has been one of my greatest supporters), so I've recently become unemployed. I plan on finding a job and shadowing an osteopathic physician ASAP, but I doubt that I'll have that set up in time to write about it in my secondaries.

I'm thinking of just writing how I've continued to demonstrate my commitment to medicine through research, volunteering, etc. but I worry that it will be too 'boring'. Has anyone else ever faced this predicament? What would you discuss?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

You state you retook the MCAT and added more hours for these other things.

You also mention your grandfather.

"I left my job in order to help my grandfather, a physician of XX years and one of my greatest mentors. Unfortunately he is terminally ill and I temporary moved to help him."

I am lucky I have some interesting things to discuss.

 

[MPHOrtho13]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take your advice and just say that I've been continuing to demonstrate my commitment to medicine by remaining dedicated to all of my service/research/healthcare reform activities, plus caring for my grandpa. I hope that in this case, no change is a good thing, because I'm not sure what more I can do to show that I'm 110% committed to becoming a doctor.

I'm glad to hear that you have something new/interesting to write about! I'm jealous that your essay won't be 'boring' like mine. Good luck with the application process.

 

[Stagg737]

Hi SDNers,
If so, please detail what has changed since you last applied."

I'd say adding thousands of EC hours and getting published are pretty huge details that add to your app. I would definitely emphasize both of those as they are things any medical school would see as very desirable (even if some readers do see it as somewhat boring).

Once change is that a few weeks ago, I moved to a new state to care for my terminally ill grandpa (he was a former physician and has been one of my greatest supporters), so I've recently become unemployed. I plan on finding a job and shadowing an osteopathic physician ASAP, but I doubt that I'll have that set up in time to write about it in my secondaries.

I'd be careful how you word this. Personally, this kind of commitment and compassion is something that I would find very desirable in a physician. Some schools may look at it differently though. Are you going to be the sole caretaker? Is his deteriorating health going to take a major emotional or motivational toll on you? Will you be able to leave for medical school and be successful while you're grandfather is still sick (if you attend a school far from home)? I think this is something which can be seen as a huge positive or a possible negative in the eyes of the admissions boards depending on how you explain the situation. However, that would be a question better answered by some of the faculty or more medically experienced members here.

 

[Goro]

What have you done to make yourself a BETTER applicant. Not merely "what has happened in your life?"

Hi SDNers,

First and foremost, best of luck to everyone who is applying this cycle!

One secondary question that I'm dreading is, "Have you previously applied to our school? If so, please detail what has changed since you last applied."

Aside from re-taking the MCAT (I don't have my score back yet... but I have a feeling that I tanked the PS section... again), I don't have anything 'new' to discuss. Since graduating with my masters last year (which was on last year's app), I've continued putting in thousands of hours volunteering, publishing research papers, completing triathlons for charity, etc. These are all wonderful commitments, but none of them are 'different'.

Once change is that a few weeks ago, I moved to a new state to care for my terminally ill grandpa (he was a former physician and has been one of my greatest supporters), so I've recently become unemployed. I plan on finding a job and shadowing an osteopathic physician ASAP, but I doubt that I'll have that set up in time to write about it in my secondaries.

I'm thinking of just writing how I've continued to demonstrate my commitment to medicine through research, volunteering, etc. but I worry that it will be too 'boring'. Has anyone else ever faced this predicament? What would you discuss?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[familyaerospace]

I'm glad to hear that you have something new/interesting to write about! I'm jealous that your essay won't be 'boring' like mine. Good luck with the application process.

Mine was international travel (three countries), gaining 5 new states, taking in a five person homeless family for six months and another separate two thousand hours of volunteering. Some of it is stuff that I am very grateful for and the rest, eh not so much.

Good luck with yours as well. I just hit submit on round 4.

 

[MPHOrtho13]

What have you done to make yourself a BETTER applicant. Not merely "what has happened in your life?"

Thanks Goro... Great advice! Btw, thanks for "Goro's guide to the app process"... It's invaluable.

Mine was international travel (three countries), gaining 5 new states, taking in a five person homeless family for six months and another separate two thousand hours of volunteering. Some of it is stuff that I am very grateful for and the rest, eh not so much.

Good luck with yours as well. I just hit submit on round 4.

Sounds like you have been doing a lot of amazing things... And I'm also jealous of your international travel! I just moved from the North to the South, and have no desire to repeat that 2,000 mile driving experience haha. I'm trying to save some $$ to hike to Mt. Everest Base Camp next summer to raise $$ for my charity, but it's tough to save while applying to an insane number of schools...

Good luck on round 4. My closest friend got into his top choice during his 4th cycle... Hoping for the outcome for you! Any advice on how to improve upon your secondaries/keeping them 'fresh'? Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[familyaerospace]

Sounds like you have been doing a lot of amazing things... And I'm also jealous of your international travel! I just moved from the North to the South, and have no desire to repeat that 2,000 mile driving experience haha. I'm trying to save some $$ to hike to Mt. Everest Base Camp next summer to raise $$ for my charity, but it's tough to save while applying to an insane number of schools...

Good luck on round 4. My closest friend got into his top choice during his 4th cycle... Hoping for the outcome for you! Any advice on how to improve upon your secondaries/keeping them 'fresh'? Any advice would be much appreciated.

The international travel was paid for by a non-profit. That is how I did Turkey/Israel. My out of pocket for the trip was like $400. Canada of course is practically another state.

Dude, if you get money to go to Everest base camp, I want to see lots and lots of photos. I want to go to Everest myself. Do you need a permit to hike to base camp? I know you need a permit to summit.

Thank you, I just spoke to top choice yesterday, line by line app assessment. They said it's not uncommon to be waitlisted for four cycles at them. I think they surely MUST be joking.

How to improve the secondaries honestly would depend on what the questions are. Some things are simply not going to be able to be made fresh. I was given the advice at one school to, if you change nothing else, change the first line of your essay. For every question, ask if there is any way that you can improve it.

 

[SecondTimesTheCharm]

To tack on to this question; when a secondary has a prompt like the following:
"Discuss any elements of your application that you feel might be concerning to the Admissions Committee."

Would you use this space as effectively as a "What has changed since the last time you applied essay"?

 

[Stagg737]

To tack on to this question; when a secondary has a prompt like the following:
"Discuss any elements of your application that you feel might be concerning to the Admissions Committee."

Would you use this space as effectively as a "What has changed since the last time you applied essay"?

Not really. This is a place for you to address any red flags you might have in your app. If you think there was a main reason you weren't accepted last time, you can address how you have fixed that issue. Otherwise I'd say it's a completely different question.

 

[medschoolmyname]

sorry to steal this thread, but quick question. for the question OP was asking about, would talking about how my family sponsored a child from another country as they underwent surgery count?

 

[MPHOrtho13]

The international travel was paid for by a non-profit. That is how I did Turkey/Israel. My out of pocket for the trip was like $400. Canada of course is practically another state.

Wow, I'm so jealous of your international travel experience. Last summer, I observed docs giving free ground-breaking FDA-approved care in an impoverished region of the Caucasus, but it cost me way more than $400 to get there. It was a wonderful experience, but I didn't mention it in my app because it was part of a pharma company's phase 4 after-market trials (it was a wonderful program with docs from places like Mayo, but unfortunately, I've seen far too many people incorrectly assume that all overseas clinical trials must be part of sort of big-bad-pharma-experiment... because unfortunately, there's a bit of truth to it-- some companies just aren't ethical).

Dude, if you get money to go to Everest base camp, I want to see lots and lots of photos. I want to go to Everest myself. Do you need a permit to hike to base camp? I know you need a permit to summit.

There is a fee to hike to base camp, but the last time I checked, it was a whopping $13.84. I think I can handle that... Maybe. These apps are breaking bank! I have no desire to climb to the summit-- the whole high risk of dying thing is too much for me. If you're interested in pics, The Planet D travel blog did a great series on hiking Everest (among many other great travel series).

Thank you, I just spoke to top choice yesterday, line by line app assessment. They said it's not uncommon to be waitlisted for four cycles at them. I think they surely MUST be joking.

How to improve the secondaries honestly would depend on what the questions are. Some things are simply not going to be able to be made fresh. I was given the advice at one school to, if you change nothing else, change the first line of your essay. For every question, ask if there is any way that you can improve it.

Wow, kudos for getting feedback from your top choice-- I've been too nervous to call up schools for that. Four times is def not unheard of... My buddy just got off the waitlist at an Ivy after his 5th application. And I know at least half a dozen people who got in off the waitlist after 3-4 tries. Thanks for the 'changing of the first line' advice... If nothing else, I'll definitely be doing that. Good luck this cycle... Wishing you lots of luck!

 

[MPHOrtho13]

Not really. This is a place for you to address any red flags you might have in your app. If you think there was a main reason you weren't accepted last time, you can address how you have fixed that issue. Otherwise I'd say it's a completely different question.

Would a terrible expired MCAT score (including a J on the writing section, years ago) count? I was nauseous throughout the entire exam, so I wasn't even in the room during the writing section (hence, the lowest possible score). I've done much, much better on a retake this spring, but there wasn't a writing section. I'm still kicking myself for having that old exam scored... :/

 

[familyaerospace]

Wow, I'm so jealous of your international travel experience. Last summer, I observed docs giving free ground-breaking FDA-approved care in an impoverished region of the Caucasus, but it cost me way more than $400 to get there. It was a wonderful experience, but I didn't mention it in my app because it was part of a pharma company's phase 4 after-market trials (it was a wonderful program with docs from places like Mayo, but unfortunately, I've seen far too many people incorrectly assume that all overseas clinical trials must be part of sort of big-bad-pharma-experiment... because unfortunately, there's a bit of truth to it-- some companies just aren't ethical).

You could have just said you went to the location and not said why.

It's funny at this time last year I had not been out of the country at all. I lied to the passport people in March when they asked where I was going and when. I said Israel in October because it just came out of my mouth. I had no travel plans as it had been cancelled. Then a few months later, in September I was told I had to be in Israel... in October. Apparently someone really wanted me in Israel in October.

My partner then asked what the winning lottery numbers were.

I said "Winning lottery numbers? I'd settle for an acceptance to medical school." ;-)

There is a fee to hike to base camp, but the last time I checked, it was a whopping $13.84. I think I can handle that... Maybe. These apps are breaking bank! I have no desire to climb to the summit-- the whole high risk of dying thing is too much for me. If you're interested in pics, The Planet D travel blog did a great series on hiking Everest (among many other great travel series).

I'll paypal you the $14 when you have to apply. I'm broke, but $14 to get oodles of photos or you to document your experience or for me to be able to ask you about your experience down the line is worth it in my eyes. I used to teach a class on extreme environments (notice not IN extreme environments as that would be a whole different meaning) and I have a healthy library on the 1996 tragedy.

I would like to summit but realistically my health is not going to allow it especially as you said it is a good chance of dying even in peak health. I think the total numbers have been 1 in 4 die, 16 sherpas have already died this year, they had to halt the season.

Thanks for the resource! I might have to check them out. Currently am trying to get through the "Rest of Everest" video podcast.

Wow, kudos for getting feedback from your top choice-- I've been too nervous to call up schools for that. Four times is def not unheard of... My buddy just got off the waitlist at an Ivy after his 5th application. And I know at least half a dozen people who got in off the waitlist after 3-4 tries. Thanks for the 'changing of the first line' advice... If nothing else, I'll definitely be doing that. Good luck this cycle... Wishing you lots of luck!

I've spoke to top choice and a school that was originally not my second choice but became my second choice because I didn't realize how important location was to me. I also spoke to a DO school which I never applied to. Too scared to call them? Email them.

Thank you! Good luck to you as well!

 

[Stagg737]

Would a terrible expired MCAT score (including a J on the writing section, years ago) count? I was nauseous throughout the entire exam, so I wasn't even in the room during the writing section (hence, the lowest possible score). I've done much, much better on a retake this spring, but there wasn't a writing section. I'm still kicking myself for having that old exam scored... :/

Yep! If you can explain why your score was so low/why you are are a better candidate now I think a lot of schools would want to know that. It shows them that you have grown since the previous application and know how to learn. In your situation I would tell the schools that you feel your original score does not reflect your abilities because you were sick when you took the first exam and should have voided it; then go on to say I am clearly a better student than that and here is my updated score to prove it. From what I've heard on SDN, it won't matter at some of the 'top tier' schools either way since they rarely even look at re-applicants/people who had to retake the MCAT. However, this is information that should be given to any schools that ask "what has changed since your last application?" or "Is there any additional information about your app that you wish to include".

 

[MPHOrtho13]

Thanks so much for your advice; I'll definitely add that to my secondary essays. Primaries have just been officially processed today... Eek!

From what I've heard on SDN, it won't matter at some of the 'top tier' schools either way since they rarely even look at re-applicants/people who had to retake the MCAT.

Oy, I hope by 'top tier' you mean Harvard, Johns Hopkins, etc... Because if rarely looking at re-applicants is common at top-tier state schools, then I just might be out of luck.

 

[Stagg737]

Oy, I hope by 'top tier' you mean Harvard, Johns Hopkins, etc... Because if rarely looking at re-applicants is common at top-tier state schools, then I just might be out of luck.

I believe they were talking about schools like Harvard and Hopkins (as those are the exact 2 that were explicitly mentioned). Personally, idk if that is true, but it was a comment made and seconded by moderators on here, so I would think that they know what they're talking about. My guess is that if you're an in-state re-applicant the public schools would still give your application consideration if it met their standards. But once again, I don't know this for myself, I'm just passing on something I saw in another reapplicant thread on here...

 

[familyaerospace]

I believe they were talking about schools like Harvard and Hopkins (as those are the exact 2 that were explicitly mentioned). Personally, idk if that is true, but it was a comment made and seconded by moderators on here, so I would think that they know what they're talking about. My guess is that if you're an in-state re-applicant the public schools would still give your application consideration if it met their standards. But once again, I don't know this for myself, I'm just passing on something I saw in another reapplicant thread on here...

The moderators second any reasonable piece of advice even if they are not 100% sure it applies. Some also give one set of answers publically but a different set privately. Remember the moderators are chosen because they have in the past given helpful advice and are generally not a dick, that doesn't mean they know everything.

There was someone who contacted me and told me his friend just got off a waitlist at an Ivy that he applied to 5 times, so I really don't think it applies to everyone. It applies to a few schools not everyone.

There are many schools who heavily favour reapplicants. I personally was only interviewed at my state school after applying to them a second time. I also was interviewed at two others after applying to them a second time. One school, I should have apparently been honoured as they rarely interview first time applicants (I was interviewed) and almost never accept them, they high waitlisted me second interview. Two schools I am applying to this round state it is not uncommon to have an applicant apply four to five application cycles and then get an acceptance.

 

[Stagg737]

There was someone who contacted me and told me his friend just got off a waitlist at an Ivy that he applied to 5 times, so I really don't think it applies to everyone. It applies to a few schools not everyone.

As I said, the advice given stated that certain top tier schools do not consider reapplicants unless they are truly outstanding candidates. Other than those few I'm sure almost all other schools would at least consider reapplicants who meet their standards.

One school, I should have apparently been honoured as they rarely interview first time applicants (I was interviewed) and almost never accept them, they high waitlisted me second interview. Two schools I am applying to this round state it is not uncommon to have an applicant apply four to five application cycles and then get an acceptance.

My bs meter is going off. Either that school was handing you a load, they only receive sub-par first-time applicants, or their policy of 'almost never accepting first time applicants' is one of the worst policies in the medical profession. There are plenty of schools that will favor a strong reapplicant over a decent first timer, however most adcoms believe that a person is a reapplicant for one reason: they weren't good enough to get in the first time. This is why almost every school asks non-new applicants what they have done to improve their app. They want to know the reason you weren't accepted and what you have done to make sure that reason no longer applies this time around. I think that *almost* every school will consider reapplicants, but to say they prefer reapplicants over first-timers of the same caliber is foolish.

As someone who applied 3 times, I can say from personal experience as well as from talking to dozens of admissions people that each time you reapply you have more and more to prove.

 

[familyaerospace]

My bs meter is going off. Either that school was handing you a load, they only receive sub-par first-time applicants, or their policy of 'almost never accepting first time applicants' is one of the worst policies in the medical profession. There are plenty of schools that will favor a strong reapplicant over a decent first timer, however most adcoms believe that a person is a reapplicant for one reason: they weren't good enough to get in the first time. This is why almost every school asks non-new applicants what they have done to improve their app. They want to know the reason you weren't accepted and what you have done to make sure that reason no longer applies this time around. I think that *almost* every school will consider reapplicants, but to say they prefer reapplicants over first-timers of the same caliber is foolish.

As someone who applied 3 times, I can say from personal experience as well as from talking to dozens of admissions people that each time you reapply you have more and more to prove.

The dean of Mercer is who told me that. I also heard from many of the interviewees that I spoke to both rounds I interviewed that they all applied the year before and no interview. Of course that schools also wants people who will remain in Georgia and won't run away. They really love non-trads. My first round applying there no waitlist, second one waitlist.

MCG's admissions person also said it wasn't unusual to reapply at all, 4 or 5 times before getting into their school. I didn't get an interview my first round there, but did for rounds 2 and 3.

Two other schools I interviewed at this round, I was at least a second round applicant to and none of them interviewed at my first round.

I don't recall them any of the four of them asking how I improved my application. I might be misremembering, but I am pretty sure they didn't.

I'm a fourth round applicant as well thanks.

 

[MPHOrtho13]

As someone who applied 3 times, I can say from personal experience as well as from talking to dozens of admissions people that each time you reapply you have more and more to prove.

Thanks so much for all of your great advice in this thread Stagg737! What did you do with schools that didn't have an optional space to 'explain the red flags'. Did you contact admissions to see if you could submit a separate paragraph? Or did you just leave it be? I'm trying to determine whether or not I should attempt that-- or if they'll just think I'm just being crazy annoying.

There was someone who contacted me and told me his friend just got off a waitlist at an Ivy that he applied to 5 times, so I really don't think it applies to everyone. It applies to a few schools not everyone.

That was actually me. For those interested in underdog/reapplicant stories-- my friend had applied late-ish (primary in August- a big no-no for a reapplicant, especially) his 5th time, and received 3 interviews. He was rejected at a 'lower-tier' MD (personally, I think that 99.9% of US med schools are excellent), was accepted to his MD alma mater, and was eventually accepted late in the cycle off the Ivy waitlist.

Of course, the Ivy acceptance didn't come easy-- not only did he move across the country to work at the Ivy during his gap year (divorcing his wife in the process), but he also constantly contacted admissions to see how he could improve his application. Their main suggestion? Take more science classes because he had been out of school for 'too long' (1 year since post-bac). Despite thinking that they were just telling him that to deter him/get him to leave them alone, he begrudgingly took community college classes anyway, and made sure that they knew he was doing it for them. His persistence paid off, but he was definitely the rare, rare, rare exception.

Although applying 5 times inherently makes you an underdog, I'm fairly certain he wasn't admitted the first four times because he continuously applied too late to too few schools... rather than it being because he was a 'true' underdog with a low gpa, MCAT, etc. With that said, it is encouraging to see that people do get in after 5 tries.

Good luck to everyone!

 

[familyaerospace]

That was actually me. For those interested in underdog/reapplicant stories-- my friend had applied late-ish (primary in August- a big no-no for a reapplicant, especially) his 5th time, and received 3 interviews. He was rejected at a 'lower-tier' MD (personally, I think that 99.9% of US med schools are excellent), was accepted to his MD alma mater, and was eventually accepted late in the cycle off the Ivy waitlist.

Of course, the Ivy acceptance didn't come easy-- not only did he move across the country to work at the Ivy during his gap year (divorcing his wife in the process), but he also constantly contacted admissions to see how he could improve his application. Their main suggestion? Take more science classes because he had been out of school for 'too long' (1 year since post-bac). Despite thinking that they were just telling him that to deter him/get him to leave them alone, he begrudgingly took community college classes anyway, and made sure that they knew he was doing it for them. His persistence paid off, but he was definitely the rare, rare, rare exception.

Although applying 5 times inherently makes you an underdog, I'm fairly certain he wasn't admitted the first four times because he continuously applied too late to too few schools... rather than it being because he was a 'true' underdog with a low gpa, MCAT, etc. With that said, it is encouraging to see that people do get in after 5 tries.

Good luck to everyone!

Sorry, so many people PM me and I can't keep people straight. I've had several contact me to tell me they got in on their 3rd or even 4th time. Your friend at the Ivy was memorable especially since people claim that after a second round, your application gets automatically rejected. At least according to SDN lore.

I was applying early to many schools at least round 3.

 

[Stagg737]

Thanks so much for all of your great advice in this thread Stagg737! What did you do with schools that didn't have an optional space to 'explain the red flags'. Did you contact admissions to see if you could submit a separate paragraph? Or did you just leave it be? I'm trying to determine whether or not I should attempt that-- or if they'll just think I'm just being crazy annoying.

That depends completely on you. I think almost every school has either a section that says 'what has changed since the last time you applied' or a section that basically asks 'is there anything else you'd like us to know?'. Both those sections can be used to explain red flags if you're a reapplicant as most schools would hope that you would attempt to correct any red flags in your new application if possible. If you think a red flag is something that: a. the school will obviously see in your application and b. is something you feel needs to be explained/will prevent you from being accepted if it is not explained, I would reach out to schools you are really interested in to ask them how to address this. The thing I've found (though did not do myself as much as I wish I had) is that applicants who are proactive with schools and continually stay in contact have a better shot than those who don't. Schools want to accept students that they know will attend, going out of your way to contact them and keep them updated with improvements/desires to attend could only help your chances. I don't think they'll consider you annoying, I think they would look at you as someone with a strong desire to attend their institution.

However, I also don't think that it is good to bring a red flag up to adcoms if it isn't something major or if they don't ask about it. You don't want to draw unnecessary attention to small negatives, but you certainly want to address the major ones and explain what you learned from them, what you did to correct them, and how you are a better applicant now.

 

[Stagg737]

The dean of Mercer is who told me that. I also heard from many of the interviewees that I spoke to both rounds I interviewed that they all applied the year before and no interview. Of course that schools also wants people who will remain in Georgia and won't run away. They really love non-trads. My first round applying there no waitlist, second one waitlist.

MCG's admissions person also said it wasn't unusual to reapply at all, 4 or 5 times before getting into their school. I didn't get an interview my first round there, but did for rounds 2 and 3.

Mercer (I'm assuming that MCG is also Mercer), is a school that I'm guessing is likely an exception to how most med schools choose applicants seeing as they will not accept anyone who is not a Georgia resident. According to their website, they seem to be adamant about only wanting students who will stay in Georgia, and more specifically people who want to provide care to the under-served communities of Georgia. I'm sure you already know that, but it makes sense for a school with those goals that accepts 100 out of roughly 800-900 applicants to have a preference for reapplicants, even those who apply 4-5 times, because many first time applicants are likely to be weak. On top of being a stronger applicant (extra years to beef up your app) reapplying multiple times shows them that you're really committed, and as long as you continually state that your goals are in line with their mission, I could see why they might prefer reapplicants.

Two other schools I interviewed at this round, I was at least a second round applicant to and none of them interviewed at my first round.

I don't recall them any of the four of them asking how I improved my application. I might be misremembering, but I am pretty sure they didn't.

I'm assuming that even if they didn't explicitly ask you how you improved, they certainly looked for improvements from previous applications. From reading your posts in other threads it sounds like you significantly improved your MCAT and made other improvements as well. IMO you got interviews during later cycles because you came across as a significantly better applicant. I doubt you would have gotten those interviews by simply submitting the same app without adding some significant experiences or improving some stats. I'm sure there are the rare few applicants who get in because of the 'dedication'
they show by reapplying multiple times. However, I have only heard of 1 person getting accepted for that reason (he also improved his app each year, but the school said that his persistence was admirable) while everyone else I know was either accepted because they drastically improved their resume or just gave up on med school altogether. Either way, it's harder as a reapp because not only do you have to show schools how you have improved, but many schools will wonder why you were not accepted the first time. It's just another question that you have to be able to answer. I'm not trying to be negative or discourage any reapps in any way, just trying to be realistic about the process and look for every angle possible.

 

[familyaerospace]

Mercer (I'm assuming that MCG is also Mercer), is a school that I'm guessing is likely an exception to how most med schools choose applicants seeing as they will not accept anyone who is not a Georgia resident. According to their website, they seem to be adamant about only wanting students who will stay in Georgia, and more specifically people who want to provide care to the under-served communities of Georgia. I'm sure you already know that, but it makes sense for a school with those goals that accepts 100 out of roughly 800-900 applicants to have a preference for reapplicants, even those who apply 4-5 times, because many first time applicants are likely to be weak. On top of being a stronger applicant (extra years to beef up your app) reapplying multiple times shows them that you're really committed, and as long as you continually state that your goals are in line with their mission, I could see why they might prefer reapplicants.

I'm assuming that even if they didn't explicitly ask you how you improved, they certainly looked for improvements from previous applications. From reading your posts in other threads it sounds like you significantly improved your MCAT and made other improvements as well. IMO you got interviews during later cycles because you came across as a significantly better applicant. I doubt you would have gotten those interviews by simply submitting the same app without adding some significant experiences or improving some stats. I'm sure there are the rare few applicants who get in because of the 'dedication'
they show by reapplying multiple times. However, I have only heard of 1 person getting accepted for that reason (he also improved his app each year, but the school said that his persistence was admirable) while everyone else I know was either accepted because they drastically improved their resume or just gave up on med school altogether. Either way, it's harder as a reapp because not only do you have to show schools how you have improved, but many schools will wonder why you were not accepted the first time. It's just another question that you have to be able to answer. I'm not trying to be negative or discourage any reapps in any way, just trying to be realistic about the process and look for every angle possible.

Mercer is not MCG, those are two separate schools. Mercer is Mercer, MCG is Medical College of Georgia. Both claim they like reapps and that for both schools it is not unusual to accept a fourth or more round applicant. They said that within two weeks of each other and they really have no reason to lie. I've met several people who got in on their second, or even third round.

I interviewed on the first time with Mercer (which is very unusual), the second time with MCG. I was waitlisted after my first interview with MCG and my second with Mercer. My MCAT scores and grades were the same years 2 and 3. The other schools that opted to interview me as a reapplicant also had the same scores (Morehouse, Michigan State). The only thing that I did between rounds was change out a LOR, added 50 shadowing hours to my hundreds, added religion courses which do not have grades, got very specific on my ethnicity as the last time you saw someone of Surinamese creole descent (thanks grandma for your weird background!) practicing medicine is probably never (before I believe I just put other or white/black), and added a hobby section on my application. The application also changed in my second year about the languages section which helped me tremendously. If anything I weakened my application overall between rounds 2 and 3 but came out as a stronger human being.

For round 4, I added some travel, added a new letter to Mercer which had previously only gone to MCG, another letter that is going only to MCG (as they wanted it but might hurt me at Mercer), and swapped out one EC which I was told to use by SDN with another one that was told was a huge no-no (it was specifically requested by Mercer), and slightly rewrote some essays. MCG wants a new MCAT so they are getting it. Mercer accepts ED applicants with a 25 MCAT and 3.5 GPA and once you get past that, they couldn't care less. Then it is all about Georgia and interview skills.

 

[Stagg737]

Interesting. I can say from experience applying to 40-50 different schools (20-25 I reapplied to) that what the Georgia schools are looking for/considering is vastly different from most of the schools I applied to. I was told straight to my face by 4 or 5 admissions counselors as well as over the phone by several others that re-applicants who don't significantly improve their apps in some way wouldn't even be considered for interviews. I've never heard of anyone moving farther along in the process at the same school by resubmitting an app with few or no changes. Even you changed a bunch of stuff, so maybe schools saw those as positives even if you didn't (past the basics who knows what adcoms are thinking...). Just out of curiosity what was the huge no-no EC? There aren't many ECs/experiences I've heard of that can really be that bad for your app...

 

[familyaerospace]

Interesting. I can say from experience applying to 40-50 different schools (20-25 I reapplied to) that what the Georgia schools are looking for/considering is vastly different from most of the schools I applied to. I was told straight to my face by 4 or 5 admissions counselors as well as over the phone by several others that re-applicants who don't significantly improve their apps in some way wouldn't even be considered for interviews. I've never heard of anyone moving farther along in the process at the same school by resubmitting an app with few or no changes. Even you changed a bunch of stuff, so maybe schools saw those as positives even if you didn't (past the basics who knows what adcoms are thinking...). Just out of curiosity what was the huge no-no EC? There aren't many ECs/experiences I've heard of that can really be that bad for your app...

I would wonder if perhaps there are different rules if you are URM, SES, or LGBT given all of them are being recruited heavily, however that wouldn't make sense to have two separate sets of rules and none of those factors affected other people I know who were reapplicants (some of which were not even in Georgia). I don't know how long each adcomm spoke to you, but I ended up three on one for an hour at Mercer and an hour and a half one on one from MCG. So I do not know what to tell you. I know it is SDN lore to state never reapply, but SDN is frequently wrong which is the reason I have the blog in my signature. Remember they also say you will never get an MD interview with a 26 which I have also proven wrong.

I was told to swap out a several tens of thousands of hours education extracurricular which I did over a roughly 20 year period (in Florida for 6 and Georgia for 14 which I was still doing as of 2013, several leadership positions in), with highly religious volunteer extracurriculars for two years with numbers I cannot even calculate. It's not even a "Oh my synagogue does this, that or the other as a group." Nope. They want to know where I go to shul and if I do anything there, which given the volunteer coordinator has jokingly called me their number 1 volunteer (I drive 60 miles each way to volunteer to do things like set up for Pesach seder) at least I can state I do something. The opinion for the most part on SDN is don't give anything someone can discriminate against you with, there was a thread in the past couple of days that discussed a Russian Israeli volunteering with Jewish elders. Not the same thing as what I am doing as it's just religious involvement, not taking care of the aged or whatnot.

I'm a very religious Jew in Georgia studying in an Orthodox yeshiva and in a Conservative pararabbinic program (which I am moving like molasses in because my Hebrew sucks major monkey balls.) The intensity of the work I've done in the community terrifies most gentiles and a fair amount of liberal Jews. Mercer is religious but they wanted more religion than "Oh FA has studied in yeshiva for X years, has published a book chapter on Judaism and is currently writing a book on the conversion process." And yes they said as much. They also said my thousands of community service hours could be improved (but remember I had to remove ten thousand hours) and then they wanted more ties to Georgia despite me being here for 15 years. The only way I could do it is by giving them Atlanta Jewish community. I am thankful at least that my synagogue has name recognition as they are one of the top twenty largest congregations in the United States and I am KNOWN there.

 

[Stagg737]

Wow, I don't even know how to respond to that. With the number of hours you have and the actual dedication/connections to Georgia I think Mercer is full of it. To say that you don't have the ECs is ridiculous, and if they just want X amount of religious experience with any religion then I agree that they seem to be asking the world of you. IMO there are 2 major reasons that a solid candidate gets rejected from a school when they're stats exceed the schools expectations. The first is that the school sees something in the application or interview that makes the candidate seem high risk. This could be inconsistent grades, inability to stay committed to ECs, questionable behavior, or even something as small as speeding tickets (sounds dumb, but it's true). The other is reason is that the candidate's goals/profile/personality just doesn't align with what the school wants. The other major reason that applies to only re-applicants is if you apply to the same school and don't improve you app in some way.

The counselors I met with all spent at least an hour (one-on-one) with me except for one only talked to me for about a half an hour. The common things I heard were what I listed above. Some said I seemed like a high-risk candidate for various reasons and I'd need to make major improvements to offset that. One said that I just didn't fit the profile of what they were looking for because I didn't have enough research. Every school said that re-submitting an app without improving it is essentially a red flag. I also talked to several schools over the phone, and heard a lot of the same things. I don't think the lore is to not reapply, I think it is 'don't reapply unless you fix the problems in your initial app'. IMO, that's just common sense, and for most people that don't get in there is some aspect of their app that can definitely be strengthened. I also know people that got MD interviews with sub-25 MCATs and got accepted with a 26. Those same people also had MAJOR connections at the schools they were accepted to. It's not impossible, but those people are definitely the exception and usually have outstanding applications outside their MCAT or GPA.

There are absolutely different rules for URM. Since they are under-represented there's a greater demand for them; so they have a slightly easier time getting accepted than non-URMs. I have multiple friends that had very similar stats as me that were accepted to MD schools I wouldn't even think about applying to because they played up the fact that they were URM. At the same time I think all of them earned their spot in med school and will be great physicians. The vast majority of accepted URM students are still great candidates, they just don't have to be quite as great because they already stand out in the eyes of adcoms. Additionally, there are plenty of reports on AMCAS which have been posted on SDN in the URM section which show exactly that.

Obviously, every school is going to have their own standards and every school is going to have its own mission. However, there are some things that I think are common among almost every school with few exceptions. From the sounds of it Mercer is one of the schools that is different because of its relatively small applicant pool (only Georgia residents) and because it seems they want a very specific type of student. It sounds like you either don't fit the profile of the type of student they are looking for somehow or there is some other reason you aren't being accepted that they're not telling you. As to why you haven't been accepted there while others have, I have no idea.

 

[familyaerospace]

I am not high risk, my grades have always been consistent enough and they only got better once I decided I wanted to go into medicine. My only major red-flag is that I am transgendered unless you consider my desire to keep busy as a red flag. I have no speeding tickets or anything on my record. A detailed background check was performed on me two years ago and it was squeaky clean. Mercer also wants people who have performing arts experience. 20 years of theater on my end, I also play an unusual instrument that I only mentioned in interviews. My app also mentions the sports I do although I do not dedicate a section to that (I jog, camp, hike, my favourite sport swimming I can't do anymore due to health). There are literally no gaps on my application. I am being told by non-adcomms (so just random opinions) that one of two things is really at play. 1) I am a "too good to be true" applicant. 2) They think I am going to run away to another career which at the rate this is going I might have to.

I am a URM SES LGBT applicant... all three. I am being encouraged to apply again including to the schools that waitlisted me. Mercer was the only MD school that I was interviewed with the first time I applied. All the others decided to interview me on the second time I applied to them NOT the first. I have no problems discussing the fact I'm Surinamese to discuss the URM issue. Outside of my family I have never even met a person from Surinam or with that ancestry. One of my listed hobbies is Surinamese genealogy and if they wanted me to upload a genetic report showing my percentage of sub-Saharan African DNA or documentation of my family's life in slavery (I have half, I am still looking for another segment), I would be more than happy to send it. I only was interviewed at one HBC.

I must be really doing something wrong if I am only getting interviews on my second shot (see MCG, Morehouse, MSU), plus getting rejected at perfect match schools despite everything. All I get told is how to improve my application a little more. The only thing that was not listed on my application prior to round 4 was where I go to synagogue. MCG knew because they have a letter from my rabbi. For this round, he played up the ties to Georgia thing in one line. I was sent an email copy of the letter so I know what was said.

I just did a mock interview last Thursday, I know at least it's not my interview skills!